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Opinion Analysis Retro Grew up loving JRPGs. Getting old hating them.

RavageX

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I'm with you on this, I've gotten more selective about the ones I try now. For example, several of the newer dragon quests were interesting to me, the change of random battles, etc. Stories are still kinda meh, but better. Bravely default was a nice change from the usual...haven't tried 2 yet.

The new yakuza game I enjoy, if it being a bit simple but it tells a good story with different characters from the norm.

I think I'm mostly tired of mostly teenaged folks that lived in a small village, suddenly something happens and without a lick of training, they are off to save the world.
 

sublimit

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There are J(apanese)RPGs for all the tastes out there (gameplay-wise and artstyle-wise) you just need to research which ones click on you and which ones don't.

So basically just like every other genre (although "JRPG" is not a genre).
 
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Vaelka

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For me it has sorta been the opposite, when I was a kid/ teenager I prefered more Western games and when I played RPGs and MMOs I made characters representing myself.
Nowadays as an adult I have basically no interest in them anymore and strongly prefer Eastern games.

If I played Mass Effect and Dragon Age today I'd play a female character too, back when I played them and was a HUGE fan I only played a male character meant to be me.
Nowadays I just prefer to play as characters that are the opposite of me and more stylized and fantastical games.
 
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Hydroxy

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I hate random encounters system too but I love turn based gameplay. Which is why Dragon Quest and Persona are among my favourites.
 
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Guilty_AI

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I actually don't have to deal with anything, as I don't feel the need to go into every single thread about the game or JRPGs to tell the world how bad this game is. Unlike many people here, that have been doing this for years now... :messenger_neutral:
 

PSYGN

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The game names are often also cookie cutter
  • Have "Final", "Chronicles", "Grand", "Endless", "of" or "-" in it
  • Have a subtitle
  • Mix a European word in it
  • Sound pompous and/or nonsensical
  • Tack on roman numerals

Grande Chronicles de Wumpus VI: Omega Killer
 
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NeoIkaruGAF

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I, too, used to think I was over JRPGs. Especially in the 6th gen, when there were so many but almost none rekindled the spark of the PS1 generation.

But recently, I’ve been enjoying a few. Xenoblade 1 totally won me over a few years ago, Xenoblade 2 was great, and I’m enjoying Octopath Traveler very much at the moment (I’m close to 80 hours right now). Dragon Quest XI on the other hand, bored me to tears and I had to drop it 10 hours in.
 
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NeoIkaruGAF

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The game names are often also cookie cutter
  • Have "Final", "Chronicles", "Grand", "Endless", "of" or "-" in it
  • Have a subtitle
  • Mix a European word in it
  • Sound pompous and/or nonsensical
  • Tack on roman numerals

Grande Chronicles de Wumpus VI: Omega Killer
What’s a European word?
 

Guilty_AI

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The game names are often also cookie cutter
  • Have "Final", "Chronicles", "Grand", "Endless", "of" or "-" in it
  • Have a subtitle
  • Mix a European word in it
  • Sound pompous and/or nonsensical
  • Tack on roman numerals

Grande Chronicles de Wumpus VI: Omega Killer
thats just games in general
 

The Pleasure

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We're about to hit 2022 and it baffles me we are still getting "new" (turn-based) JRPGs with exactly the same battle system + random encounter mechanics from 35 years ago or so. If it wasn't for modern graphics, you'd be hard-pressed to spot the difference between dungeon gameplay from back then, to one now.

I'm not that fed up about the predictable characters, towns, predictable "save the world" stories (although for once it would be nice to have a more personal story where you save your friend/family/town only). I'm just pissed an AI could probably be programmed to produce the gameplay aspects of a full RPG in (probably) mere minutes.

Create a plain dungeon> scatter a bunch of easy enemies, repeatedly fight the same enemies, scatter some treasure in different corners to attract MORE random encounters and increase your playtime. And there you have it. The only meaningful fight will be the boss - but even that will most likely be a breeze cos you were forced to grind/level up with the other encounters.

Instead of all these easy/repetitive fights that take so much time and are of no challenge, why not make a dungeon that has only 5 or 6 quality battles? Each one lasting about 5-8 minutes each, with unique enemies that make you reassess your team/equipment/tactics. Enemies that have SOME degree intelligence, reacting to what equipment you're wearing, or that are faster/stronger in certain terrain/weather etc etc. Battles that have been given thought and attention to by the devs. None of these ideas are mindblowing, but how lazy is it to only develop decent boss fights (which make up around 5-10% of game time), and feed the player fucking fodder for the rest of the 90%?
Why you hating on Bethesda games? We kniw there hasn't been a truly great one since Daggerfall, but morrowind was pretty good.
 

SpokkX

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Looks like you are playing baby's first JRPGs. There are more interesting games in the genre than what you describe.

Valkyria Chronicles 4
Brigandine
Lost Odyssey
Lightning Returns
Final Fantasy XV

These were all pretty great J-RPGs if you ask me.

i am in the same boat as OP and played these

jrpg are not fun anymore. Linear, simplistic, predictable. Great music still though

wrpgs on the other hand are way more diverse and also allow for actual roleplaying (choices).
 
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WoJ

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I find JRPGs to be somewhat grindy these days. I played Xenoblade Chronicles for the first time a couple years ago and liked it, but struggled with it as an adult. It just felt difficult to make any legit progress in the game when I only had 45 minute sessions to play. My 13 year old self would have adored it.

I don't know, I appreciate what the genre is and does. But I prefer western rpgs these days.
 

wzy

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Final Fantasy XV is, by far, the most ambitious JRPG we had last gen. I know this forum is full of haters, but keep in mind that you are nothing more than a super small, vocal minority :messenger_winking:

Woke up this morning and thought to myself: "today, I'll go out of my way to belittle someone for being a minority." I'm not a deranged bully, btw
 
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wzy

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My sense of worth is tied inextricably to how common my opinions are. <----picture of mental health
 
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Kev Kev

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Combat is the least of problems that jrpgs have these days, imo

Take all the Japanese/anime flavor out, or at least keep it to a minimum. It’s awful, terrible, cringy and weird. Anime sucks. Having it jrpgs needs to be re thought up because it’s the main problem with those games, imo

linear hallway type maps is the other fucking bane of all jrpgs at the moment. It’s been awful since FFX and it still is. For the love of god, square, please stop.

the gameplay loop of fight run a bit, fight, run, fight, find a chest that’s not even attempting to be hidden, then run and fight more, needs to fucking stop. It needs to be broken up with mini games, NPCs that have something interesting to say it do, actual hidden stuff, places to search (like book shelves and pots/barrels in old school rpgs) and generally feel open world and liberating and give you the feeling you are on an adventure that you are in control of

and this is kind of a hot take, but VAs and non CGI cut scenes need to go. They never look or sound good and it completely takes me out of the experience. If it’s CGI and done well then I’m good with it, but other than that, keep the cut scenes and horrible VAs out. They are not good enough and they never have been. Maybe one day… (the voice actors themselves usually do a good job, it’s just the script and editing I have a problem with, just to clarify…)

I love random encounters and grinding battles, as long as the battle system is fun. FF13 battle is pretty monotonous tho, so I could agree that system needs alteration. But Give me classic turn based like ff7-9 or something different and cool like ff12 system and I’m happy

there is so much more wrong with jrpgs that I didn’t mention, this is only a start. But I honestly fee the combat is the least of their problems
 

Kev Kev

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Double post bc it’s hard to edit in an insert quote on mobile….. sue me


Japanese developers have grown too comfortable to the genre through decades because it remains at the top of the public's palette in Japan. It takes less effort to develop as it is as OP says, pretty much mass-produced in a factory line all tropes included.

and this is the problem right here. You’re absolutely right. They know their core big titty waifu loving weeboo audience will slurp this crap up and put as little effort and money into the product as possible. So we keep seeing the same trash tier quality out of these developers and it doesn’t look like it’s going to change any time soon. Smh

oh well, at least we still have to old school stuff
 
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JLB

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Feeling you OP. Big fan of JRPGs when I was a kid, but my tolarance to them decreased over time.
I think its tied to the fact that these games require more time to get into them, and as adult my time for gaming is not abundant, sadly.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

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I kind of wish that guy who felt the need to write novel sized posts about how great FFXV was, was still around just to see how he would react to all the FFXV hate in this thread. 🤣
I actually think FF XV is an okay-ish game, but I used to bash it just to see that guy lose his shit.

Anyway I am a long time JRPG fan who has developed a major love/hate relationship with the genre. I can only put up with so much anime bullshit, terrible writing, and dumb tropes.

Wish we had more games with writing like FF XII and FF Tactics. What kills JRPGs for me more than anything else is the bad writing. Characters just yap on and on explaining stuff that you should be able to pick up by context.

Like I’m early in Tales of Arise and I swear every fucking scene has Shionne going on and on about how she’s only helping you because your interests happen to align. Just, WHY? You think gamers wouldn’t pick up on that unless you hammered it into our heads? Was there no other way to convey that other than to have someone explicitly state it over and over? It sure as heck doesn’t sound like a naturally flowing conversation.

Sometimes less is more.
 
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Ideafactory/compileheart, dragon quest and a lot of the early 00s jrpgs are unironically the reason why we have people making topics about how bad jrpgs have become.

Seems most folk chipping in about bad how JRPG's are now don't even know who the likes of Compile Heart are tho given the lack of any mention 🤷‍♂️ it's not as if they're bad either
 
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iQuasarLV

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JRPG are just struggling to find a reason to convince people they are still relevant in a world of ADD Ritalin addicted 13-28 year olds.

For the life of me I do not understand why FF-12 combat system was abandoned for the knock off DMC system of FF-15. By chapter 10 I just could not stomach it anymore.

DQ-11 was too long of a game. It was a slowly paced slog. I got to the "post storyline" and just stopped playing. I could not care about the story anymore.

Someone already said it earlier, but I will reiterate. Octopath Traveler's system of the HD 2.5 games is going to be the standard of classic JRPG expeiences moving forward. While these same studios try to experiement with more and more ambitious 3D / real time / open world systems to find one that appeals to the next generation of gamers.

I do not understand why we went from a good novel like story with interactive battle elements had to move to these open world, super grind, gatcha, games. Give me a good ole' story line with hidden lore elements to unlock and I am happy.

The last time an RPG totally engrossed me was DA:O. That was 2009.
 

RoboFu

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Play DQ11 or the FF pixel remasters.. I figured out that biggest reason I do not most jrpgs these days is because the battles are way too slow with stupid mechanics.
 

Guilty_AI

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Pretty much. As anyone gets older our taste of games narrow. It is what it is.
mine got broader actually
kid -> literally nothing but racing games
teen -> racing alongside some popular mainstream games like GTAs and Half Lifes.
adult -> pretty much everything.

I DID become more selective and critical however, despite being more accepting of different genres and styles.
 
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Graciaus

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Instead of all these easy/repetitive fights that take so much time and are of no challenge, why not make a dungeon that has only 5 or 6 quality battles? Each one lasting about 5-8 minutes each, with unique enemies that make you reassess your team/equipment/tactics. Enemies that have SOME degree intelligence, reacting to what equipment you're wearing, or that are faster/stronger in certain terrain/weather etc etc. Battles that have been given thought and attention to by the devs. None of these ideas are mindblowing, but how lazy is it to only develop decent boss fights (which make up around 5-10% of game time), and feed the player fucking fodder for the rest of the 90%?
There are some that do these the Shin Megami Tensei series in particular is good. Any game in the series that uses the Press Turn system will wreck you if you don't change your team, tactics and understand the systems. If you play on hard difficulties the AI will aim to kill you.

Dungeon crawlers while not having long lasting battles can give you the same thrill. But they go against your earlier complaint.

Fan difficulty hacks can also really be fun to play. Sometimes games are just to easy but with some AI tweaks they become way harder. While this is an extreme example Final Fantasy Tactics 1.3 is an experience. You'll have to constantly change your skills, jobs and tactics to compete with the AI who will wipe the floor with you.

You also may have just grown out of it. I still love them at 33 just as much as 8 year old me.
 

Danjin44

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We're about to hit 2022 and it baffles me we are still getting "new" (turn-based) JRPGs with exactly the same battle system
I'm sorry but I found this take very stupid, Just because you personally don't like Turn based it doesn't make it outdated. I don't like FPS and they are also been around for a long time, does it make outdated!? Turn based is just another combat system.


I'm so fucking sick of this stupid ass arguments. It okay not liking turn based, everyone have their own preference but don't make this BS arguments.
 
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chriskun

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This is a super hot take but I think that turn based rpgs are objectively bad. There is zero player agency in the gameplay of these games, no room for creativity or freedom. I think we all need to be honest that the only reason why we liked these were because we are all weebs/the visual aesthetic.
 

Life

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I'm sorry but I found this take very stupid, Just because you personally don't like Turn based it doesn't make it outdated. I don't like FPS and they are also been around for a long time, does it make outdated!? Turn based is just another combat system.


I'm so fucking sick of this stupid ass arguments. It okay not liking turn based, everyone have their own preference but don't make this BS arguments.
Did you even read my post? I didn't say I dislike turn-based. They just haven't changed one bit and most of the battles are meaningless. I still enjoy turn-based when enemies/battles are not cookie cutter - but actually thought out.
 

Danjin44

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hey just haven't changed one bit and most of the battles are meaningless
You are kidding me!? are you telling me Bravely Default combat plays same way as Press Turn from SMT!? Come on! Then why not complain all FPS plays the same, you point and shoot.
 
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captainpat

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its ok to stop playing a genre of games you used to love.

The genre doesnt need to change or even modernize. Perhaps you just need to move on to different games that interest you.
I was in the same boat a few years ago. It turns out the solution was just be more selective about the jrpg a play.
 

wzy

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JRPGs aren't board games and you shouldn't fetishize combat as a discrete system with no relationship to the rest of the game. It's not. Game design is a holistic process and no single system or concept is developed in isolation from the others. Old-school dungeons crawls, for example, are using combat as a form of attrition, which is why the individual encounters are "meaningless"--they're taxes, not challenges. The idea was that the player would go a little ways, eventually run low on provisions, then turn back and make another attempt after resting. You're supposed to chew on the dungeons a little and lose yourself in the whole rhythm of expedition and retreat, which may or may not be to your taste but the format is compelling enough to have an entire modern genre built around it (roguelites). From that perspective the combat is ideally designed: its breezy and not overly taxing on the mind. The battles wouldn't be so long or drawn out that you would lose your sense of direction when you returned to the dungeon screen or lose your page in the story when the characters started talking again. The dungeon itself is a reprieve from the heavier narrative elements, not the other way around.

All the things that people like to bitch about when it comes to this genre are motivated by other aspects that they're not seeing clearly with this mode of analysis, which is why all the proposed corrections are fucking terrible. I've played games where every single encounter is an intricate, demanding, multi-round affair (the late Divinity series comes to mind) and they are exhausting, which is another kind of boring. You can't keep a good pace to the story that way, you can't reflect character development systematically because the challenges are all tactical (i.e., they don't require growth which is what all JRPGs are about, narratively), and the whole rhythm of narrative-adventure-narrative collapses because the combat itself becomes its own story. That style is suited to some types of games, like for example games like FFT which are about kingdoms and armies and require a larger scale to work with and even then its not really a great fit, but it just depends on a hundred other things.

For the golden age of JRPGs, the combat is perfectly suited to the game as a whole. What specifically changed about the genre was a lack of narrative focus and pacing and an extreme tidal wave of mind-numbing filler shit with no dramatic urgency, which is a problem with modern production pipelines and its touched every other genre too. No combat system in the world is enough to fix a shit game, especially a game like FFXV that has no real clue what it wants to be.
 
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Fools idol

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I really tried to get back into the genre after a very very long hiatus too.

I picked up Persona 5 having now touched anything in that series and lets just say I did not enjoy the experience. I couldn't get my head around why it was so popular, the characters were so irritating and the overall weridness of it all just really didn't fit for me.

I realized I like my jrpgs very old school traditional -- Dragon Quest 11 was the only one I liked since ... well, probably the ps2 era.
 

Javthusiast

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Big budget turn based jrpgs are a rarity at this point. Everything from FFs, Tales of etc. is some form of action based.
 
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Kumomeme

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Final Fantasy XV is, by far, the most ambitious JRPG we had last gen. I know this forum is full of haters, but keep in mind that you are nothing more than a super small, vocal minority :messenger_winking:
thats the problem. biting off more than you can chew. the game is good example of what gonna happened when a game is too ambitious out of developers reach.


dont get me wrong, i enjoyed the game, but not necessary mean that we must ignored the obvious critism.

but keep in mind that you are nothing more than a super small, vocal minority :messenger_winking:
nope. never be since beginning. as matter of obvious fact, the negative concensus of the game, is actually by big vocal margin. you can see it everywhere, on social media, forums etc. tons of very mixed reception from fans even today and it even growing. even recently on Final Fantasy official facebook page tons of people shitting on the game.

no use to try defend the what flawed. but it is all not for nothing. i believe FFXV will be their foundation for future. after all the engine is now complete and they gained the knowhow of developing open world game. lets hope the devs team carry all of the experience on their next game Forspoken.
 
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cireza

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And that's the minority. Game sold 9, maybe 10 millions copies. Very few people who play video games actually participate in social media or forums. You don't sell 9 millions copies of a game if everybody dislike it.
 

DragoonKain

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The best thing about JRPGs is progression systems, combat, lore, town/area designs, and just losing yourself in a world that is fantastical and inviting to be in.

These days with most of them you'll have to put up with the same tired tropes, stories, quirks, etc.

And unfortunately because of budget issues and the market being watered down, too many don't do the former things well. If I have to put up with lame tropes and cliches and all I get are bland linear corridors and no customization? Forget it. Especially if it's grindy and the battle system isn't much to write home about.

But JRPGs done really well can still be amazing. Just rare these days.
 
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SinDelta

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Plenty of good to amazing JRPGs for a variety of tastes, especially this year alone-

Bravely Default 2
Monster Hunter Stories 2
NEO The World Ends With You
Tales of Arise (Which is very rapidly approching GOTY Status for me)
And SMT V is still upcoming.
Also the Pokemon Diamond and Pearl remakes
And the Advance War remakes.

Not to mention other JRPGs like Dragon Quest XI, Xenoblade DE, Xenoblade X, Xenoblade 2, Persona 4 Golden, Persona 5 Royal, Valkyria Chronicles 1, Valkyria Chronicles 4, ect, ect. Xenoblade DE and Dragon Quest XI in particular being two of the best games I have ever played.

Then we have really awesome remakes like Dragon Quest III HD-2D Remake upcoming (test run for potential Chrono Trigger remake pls.)

And new tactical RPGs like Metal Slug Tactics.

Then giants like Dragon Quest XII Flames of Fate and Final Fantasy XVI on the horizon.
 
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Kumomeme

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And that's the minority. Game sold 9, maybe 10 millions copies. Very few people who play video games actually participate in social media or forums. You don't sell 9 millions copies of a game if everybody dislike it.
nope not that simple. how many game sold not reflect the overall reception. sold number and reception can be different things. by that logic, cyberpunk sold 13 million so it mean 13m people love it lol despite how buggy that game and how many people still unhappy and shitting it online today.

positive/negative reception is not something measured by how many number it sold. even shitty product get sold.

people enjoyed the game vs people critisize the game also different. you can enjoyed the game while heavily crisitize the game at same time. you also can buy the game and shitting on the game afterward. read those complaint. you can see easily guess wherever these people did play the game or not. obviously they wont complaint if they didnt own and played the game.

the point here not about people didnt buy the game, but how many people buy the game but end up 'not happy' or having their own complaint/dissapointment. the 9m copies sold but the game has very mixed reception despite it should not be that way.

Very few people who play video games actually participate in social media or forums.
lol this is funny. i can understand about forum, but not social media. nowdays age of social media. it is way accessible. there is various platform online. there even dedicated fb groups for example. most of people flock there. not forum.
 
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mcjmetroid

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They just refuse to be original most of the time.
I remember they used to give western games shit for all being brown green shooting simulators but now the JRPGs have generally become a parody of themselves.

I like when they really try to do something different like:
Yakuza, Valkaria Chronicles, Advanced Wars: Dark Fate, Nier Automata etc

Plenty of great JRPG examples out there but most fall into " that" category.

Dragon Quest XI was mild fun but cmon now the game was too easy and there was no strategy in the combat.

Octopath Traveller was different and actually had a good combat system for its type. It just lacked polish is everything else. Good attempt though.

I recently played YSIX, never played one before. Excellent combat system stuck in a game that's like a parody of Jrpg tropes.

Japanese developers love stories about 'memory loss' or a ' tree of life' don't they.
 
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mcjmetroid

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Plenty of good to amazing JRPGs for a variety of tastes, especially this year alone-

Bravely Default 2
Monster Hunter Stories 2
NEO The World Ends With You
Tales of Arise (Which is very rapidly approching GOTY Status for me)
And SMT V is still upcoming.
Also the Pokemon Diamond and Pearl remakes
And the Advance War remakes.

Not to mention other JRPGs like Dragon Quest XI, Xenoblade DE, Xenoblade X, Xenoblade 2, Persona 4 Golden, Persona 5 Royal, Valkyria Chronicles 1, Valkyria Chronicles 4, ect, ect. Xenoblade DE and Dragon Quest XI in particular being two of the best games I have ever played.

Then we have really awesome remakes like Dragon Quest III HD-2D Remake upcoming (test run for potential Chrono Trigger remake pls.)

And new tactical RPGs like Metal Slug Tactics.

Then giants like Dragon Quest XII Flames of Fate and Final Fantasy XVI on the horizon.
I love tactical JRPGs. They tend to have better everything than their normal JRPG counter parts and take much more risks.

Advance Wars, Fire Emblem, Valkaria Chronicles often have better stories and actual tactical gameplay.

Persona 5 I forgot about that one... Ok original presentation and I like the overworld design gameplay but... The dungeons honestly suck in those games. They start off alright and I like the themes they got going in a Psychonauts kind of way but then it becomes apparent that they're overly long and require too much grinding. Nah.

Pokémon lol don't get me started.
 
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