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God of War Ragnarok Writer Champions Angrboda as Part of "Our own spin" on Norse mythology

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
No, I wouldn't. If they made them ALL white? Maybe. But a couple? Nah, who tf cares?
Eddie Murphy Yes GIF
 

Toons

Member

I mean heck, OG LIon King took place in Africa and had literally one black actor. I was fine with that cast. And I was also fine with the new cast. Mostly because these are fictional fantastical characters.

That God's of Egypt movie was garbage though. Mostly because it just sucked, race notwithstanding. When you're talking about a sort of thing like that it really doesn't bother me if a few characters have alll different designs, it actually adds to it if done well.
 

Kimahri

Member
Sure. I also understand thats a connection that this franchise has little regard for, as few people still worship these gods or practice this religion at this point. I still am not sure what you're going for aside from that.

It's shown more regard than most other interpretations so far. Generally our history gets bastardized and infantilazed at every corner, so we get tired of it.

I asked if you're scandinavian since saying it's just fantasy is, no offence, bullshit. It's mythology, it's history, heritage, culture. It's a lot of things. Game of thrones is fantasy.
 

Toons

Member
It's shown more regard than most other interpretations so far. Generally our history gets bastardized and infantilazed at every corner, so we get tired of it.

I asked if you're scandinavian since saying it's just fantasy is, no offence, bullshit. It's mythology, it's history, heritage, culture. It's a lot of things. Game of thrones is fantasy.

But it is just fantasy lol. It's literally just a backdrop for their OC to kill the bigger names from there. That's all its ever been for this franchise. If you consider that respectful thats fine and all but even still ...

Is your notion that one character being brown completely destroys the heritage and culture? That seems a bit extreme no?
 
I mean heck, OG LIon King took place in Africa and had literally one black actor. I was fine with that cast. And I was also fine with the new cast. Mostly because these are fictional fantastical characters.
There are no human characters in the Lion King, only human voice actors, and you can't really tell someone's ethnicity from their voice. Live-action Lion King reënactments on Broadway have featured black casts.
 

Kdad

Member
But it is just fantasy lol. It's literally just a backdrop for their OC to kill the bigger names from there. That's all its ever been for this franchise. If you consider that respectful thats fine and all but even still ...

Is your notion that one character being brown completely destroys the heritage and culture? That seems a bit extreme no?
The genetic record of Scandinavia shows two initial cultures, one of pale skin and variable eye colour and one of dark skin and blue eyes. Why people think dark skin is out of place in Norse Mythology is simply 100's of intervening years of whitewashing.

The two groups that came to Scandinavia were originally genetically quite different, and displayed distinct physical appearances. The people from the south had blue eyes and relatively dark skin. The people from the northeast, on the other hand, had a variation of eye colours and pale skin.

https://theconversation.com/ancient...ious-origins-of-the-first-scandinavians-89703
 

Toons

Member
There are no human characters in the Lion King, only human voice actors, and you can't really tell someone's ethnicity from their voice. Live-action Lion King reënactments on Broadway have featured black casts.

The character who is the subject of this thread isn't human either.

And its not all black on the play. The most recent Simba actor is a new Zealander with Samoan heritage. And he does a great job
 

Toons

Member
The genetic record of Scandinavia shows two initial cultures, one of pale skin and variable eye colour and one of dark skin and blue eyes. Why people think dark skin is out of place in Norse Mythology is simply 100's of intervening years of whitewashing.

The two groups that came to Scandinavia were originally genetically quite different, and displayed distinct physical appearances. The people from the south had blue eyes and relatively dark skin. The people from the northeast, on the other hand, had a variation of eye colours and pale skin.

https://theconversation.com/ancient...ious-origins-of-the-first-scandinavians-89703

Interesting read.
 

Xenon

Member
Translation: It's out game and we can virtue signal if we want to.

Also people do realize that the animal is called black panther right?
 

Kimahri

Member
But it is just fantasy lol. It's literally just a backdrop for their OC to kill the bigger names from there. That's all its ever been for this franchise. If you consider that respectful thats fine and all but even still ...

Is your notion that one character being brown completely destroys the heritage and culture? That seems a bit extreme no?
Lord almighty. No

I was reacting to you and your apparent lack of understanding regarding mythologies.

A dark skinned Angrboda is to me, as previously stated, stupid, but I'll wait to see for further judgment. If there's a decent story explaining it? Fine. If they just pretend like dark skinned people lived in the cold north, eyeroll.

Off Topi, My god, can those up and down areows and the big green post butron be removed? New phone, and they're god damned nuisance, lol.
 

Toons

Member
Lord almighty. No

I was reacting to you and your apparent lack of understanding regarding mythologies.

A dark skinned Angrboda is to me, as previously stated, stupid, but I'll wait to see for further judgment. If there's a decent story explaining it? Fine. If they just pretend like dark skinned people lived in the cold north, eyeroll.

Off Topi, My god, can those up and down areows and the big green post butron be removed? New phone, and they're god damned nuisance, lol.

I never made any claims of knowing mythology other than stating that it was in fact mythology and that this franchise was never intended nor did it claim to accurately represent it.
 

Kimahri

Member
The genetic record of Scandinavia shows two initial cultures, one of pale skin and variable eye colour and one of dark skin and blue eyes. Why people think dark skin is out of place in Norse Mythology is simply 100's of intervening years of whitewashing.

The two groups that came to Scandinavia were originally genetically quite different, and displayed distinct physical appearances. The people from the south had blue eyes and relatively dark skin. The people from the northeast, on the other hand, had a variation of eye colours and pale skin.

https://theconversation.com/ancient...ious-origins-of-the-first-scandinavians-89703
Eh, this ain't really that relevant to vikings. This talks about the first scandinavians, 9000-6000 years ago. Most of scandinavia was covered in ice until 12000 years ago or so. It wasn't habitable.

Peoples chanhe appearance over millena acvording to where they live. We know this. Otherwise we'd all be black.

Edit: I'd like to add though. There was a study, last year I think, where they'd stupied the dna from around 400 viking graves, and found dna from all over Europe. Suggesting vikings intermingled far more than previously thought. Not surprising imo, since vikings were known to travel all over Europe.
 
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Kdad

Member
Eh, this ain't really that relevant to vikings. This talks about the first scandinavians, 9000-6000 years ago. Most of scandinavia was covered in ice until 12000 years ago or so. It wasn't habitable.

Peoples chanhe appearance over millena acvording to where they live. We know this. Otherwise we'd all be black.
Yes, and that genetic change is spoken about in the article. Never the less, the appearance of non-pale skinned characters in mythology is hardly impossible...the 'whiteness' of the mythology is simply re-enforcement by the ever paler Scandinavian culture over the intervening years to have their mythology reflect what they themselves looklike, no different than western European cultures (and then expanding from there) portraying Christianity as mostly white actors...is there original Norse mythological texts that explicitly identify all actors as pale skinned?
 
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Kimahri

Member
Yes, and that genetic change is spoken about in the article. Never the less, the appearance of non-pale skinned characters in mythology is hardly impossible...the 'whiteness' of the mythology is simply re-enforcement by the ever paler Scandinavian culture over the intervening years to have their mythology reflect what they themselves looklike, no different than western European cultures (and then expanding from there) portraying Christianity as mostly white actors...is there original Norse mythological texts that explicitly identify all actors as pale skinned?
I think the closest you generally get is "fair" and Thor being red headed.

Understand, I'm not of the opinion that all vikings were pasty white. I just find it more believable that there would be, say mongolians or middle eastern influences.
 

strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur
I really wonder who keeps making this argument. Because it's so bad. Black Panthers race is integral to the character in a way where you cannot seperate the two. There are multiple characters like this. Bruce Wayne should always be white. Red Skull should always be white. Shang Chi should always be Asian. Thing should probably always be white. I'd be against swapping most/any of tjose.

You'd think that being Norse would be an integral part of Norse mythology.

Can't have black Smurfs, can't let white people voice black characters, can't have white singers host an R&B show, can't f*cking celebrate St Nicholas, can't read BDs, can't have statues, can't have murals, can't visit exhibitions, can't look at paintings, can't have f*cking museums, but somehow us "white poeple" are the fragile ones amirite?

Sure. I also understand thats a connection that this franchise has little regard for, as few people still worship these gods or practice this religion at this point. I still am not sure what you're going for aside from that.

Who are you to decide what people are allowed to appreciate? Is Wakanda a f*cking religion now?
When they defended Thor's look they took pride in being accurate to his mythological depiction, but in this case it is somehow "just fantsy".

GTFO with your absolutely pathetic arbitrarianism.
 
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Kdad

Member
You'd think that being Norse would be an integral part of Norse mythology.

Can't have black Smurfs, can't let white people voice black characters, can't have white singers host an R&B show, can't f*cking celebrate St Nicholas, can't read BDs, can't have statues, can't have murals, can't visit exhibitions, can't look at paintings, can't have f*cking museums, but somehow us "white poeple" are the fragile ones amirite?



Who are you to decide what people are allowed to appreciate? Is Wakanda a f*cking religion now?
When they defended Thor's look they took pride in being accurate to his mythological depiction, but in this case it is somehow "just fantsy".

GTFO with your absolutely pathetic arbitrarianism.
Cool thing about fictional video games ... they can be completely arbitrary! Fun fact, when I watch the Smurfs on my black and white TV....they're not blue.

Also funny you bring up Zwarte Piet, since there links between story of Sinterklass/Zwarte Piet and Odin's black ravens...Oh no...non-whiteness based on Norse/Germanic mythology...
 
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JoeBudden

Member
Can't have black Smurfs, can't let white people voice black characters, can't have white singers host an R&B show, can't f*cking celebrate St Nicholas, can't read BDs, can't have statues, can't have murals, can't visit exhibitions, can't look at paintings, can't have f*cking museums, but somehow us "white poeple" are the fragile ones amirite?

You're genuinely upset they're knocking over confederate era statues? 🤡

Mods should just lock up this thread at this point.
 
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strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur
You're genuinely upset they're knocking over confederate era statues? 🤡

Mods should just lock up this thread at this point.

Way to willfully misrepresent my comment (I'm not even American you fool) and casually ignore all the other examples of the blatant double standard at play here.
I don't say this often, but kindly f*ck off!

Cool thing about fictional video games ... they can be completely arbitrary! Fun fact, when I watch the Smurfs on my black and white TV....they're not blue.

What an absolutely asinine and braindead reply.
 
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JoeBudden

Member
Way to willfully misrepresent my comment and casually ignore all the other examples of the blatant double standard at play here.
I don't say this often, but kindly f*ck off!



What an absolutely asininely and braindead reply.

Your other examples are trash too.

You clearly have absolutely zero idea how black people were depicted in media throughout history.

And, you honestly think *Cheryl Cole* is a good representative for R&B music? This is an absolutely idiotic example when Tim Westwood and Charlie Sloth, two white guys, handled two of the largest platforms for Hip Hop music in the UK.

You're literally just flinging shit at a wall and hoping it sticks.
 
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IDKFA

Member
Disclaimer, I'm all for colourblind and gender bending casting, which people should know from my previous posts on the subject.

I think people are missing the point, which I should stress again. It's not that she's black, but more of the inconsistency with the rules.

The inconsistency is that it's socially okay to race swap a white historical figure, or make something that is based on European religion, myth, history or folklore mixed race. However, it's not acceptable to say, make a game based on the Yoruba pantheon and make that mixed race, or cast a white actor as Queen Aminatu.

This appears to be the biggest issue that people have with this. And I totally get it. The reason why it happens is because other races need to be represented in media, but rather than shoe horning them into European culture, why not create games, films, TV shows etc based on African or Asian history and culture.

A film based on Queen Aminatu would be pretty bad ass, and I do not believe people wouldn't watch it. Same goes for a game set on West African folklore. It would be amazing and guaranteed to get people interested.
 

Kimahri

Member
Disclaimer, I'm all for colourblind and gender bending casting, which people should know from my previous posts on the subject.

I think people are missing the point, which I should stress again. It's not that she's black, but more of the inconsistency with the rules.

The inconsistency is that it's socially okay to race swap a white historical figure, or make something that is based on European religion, myth, history or folklore mixed race. However, it's not acceptable to say, make a game based on the Yoruba pantheon and make that mixed race, or cast a white actor as Queen Aminatu.

This appears to be the biggest issue that people have with this. And I totally get it. The reason why it happens is because other races need to be represented in media, but rather than shoe horning them into European culture, why not create games, films, TV shows etc based on African or Asian history and culture.

A film based on Queen Aminatu would be pretty bad ass, and I do not believe people wouldn't watch it. Same goes for a game set on West African folklore. It would be amazing and guaranteed to get people interested.
Marco Polo is one of my favorite TV shows of recent times, and that is despite the white guy being the least interesting character on it.

I want more stuff like Marco Polo so much. Just dive deep into things far away from traditional European times. Go elsewhere. If you wanna be bold and brave, that's what you do. Tell stories where white people are irrelevant because they're not even on the same continent.
 

Flutta

My tears. Exclusive to gamepass. Forever.
This appears to be the biggest issue that people have with this. And I totally get it. The reason why it happens is because other races need to be represented in media, but rather than shoe horning them into European culture, why not create games, films, TV shows etc based on African or Asian history and culture.

Well there’s a reason for that its called money.
Business 101. They want to reach out to as much people as possible. Only way for them to make as much money as possible is to force it down peoples throats. That’s one aspect of it. They need both ”whites and blacks” to buy their shit. Of course there’s political reasons behind these desicions aswell no doubt about that.

That’s how i see it anyways.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Okay here is the answer to shut you guys up.

Vikings were known to raid as far down as the northern tip of Africa. During one of those raids a black Woman was brought back and then because of her anger she made a deal with giants and they gave her a magical pregnancy and angrboda was born.

Done
 

voidenberg

Member
Well there’s a reason for that its called money.
Business 101. They want to reach out to as much people as possible. Only way for them to make as much money as possible is to force it down peoples throats. That’s one aspect of it. They need both ”whites and blacks” to buy their shit. Of course there’s political reasons behind these desicions aswell no doubt about that.

That’s how i see it anyways.
There is more than "whites and blacks" in the USA. If the reason is money then where are hispanics and asians in god of war? Hispanics are 18% of the US population. More than blacks. Asians are 7%.
 

Flutta

My tears. Exclusive to gamepass. Forever.
There is more than "whites and blacks" in the USA. If the reason is money then where are hispanics and asians in god of war? Hispanics are 18% of the US population. More than blacks. Asians are 7%.
No shit there’s more than blacks and whites in US. Learn to read between the lines ffs. Do i have to mention every damn race on planet earth? Also they choose a black girl as this character not me. And that’s what i was adressing 🤯
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
I swear the people who whine about "diversity" in games care more about race than the people they accuse of being political.


I didn't even think about the color of her skin or the fact that she was a girl until I started seeing people cry about it on social media.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
I think the closest you generally get is "fair" and Thor being red headed.

Understand, I'm not of the opinion that all vikings were pasty white. I just find it more believable that there would be, say mongolians or middle eastern influences.
Especially when you consider that Viking wasn't a race, it was a job description. Not everyone who was born in Scandinavia was a Viking and there's no reason to believe that being a pale skinned Scandinavian was a hard requirement for the job. It's also more believable when you consider that their trade routes reached at least as far south as Egypt and as far into the East as Constantinople, which is modern day Turkey, and could have included trade with Persia. Many vikings took prisoners and slaves in the places they invaded and it's not a stretch to believe that at least some of the people they encountered could have had influence on Nordic culture and mythology.
 

voidenberg

Member
No shit there’s more than blacks and whites in US. Learn to read between the lines ffs. Do i have to mention every damn race on planet earth? Also they choose a black girl as this character not me. And that’s what i was adressing 🤯
Yes, you do. We want true diversity. Give me latinx Thor!
 
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GreenAlien

Member
I swear the people who whine about "diversity" in games care more about race than the people they accuse of being political.
Of course, the ones who want no change and provided reasons that are universal and not related to a specific race care more about race than the ones who went out of their way to change the race and fail to provide reasons that are not related to race.. It's obvious :messenger_grinning_sweat:
"woke diversity" is inherently racist. Consistency isn't.
 
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On Demand

Member
You'd think that being Norse would be an integral part of Norse mythology.

Can't have black Smurfs, can't let white people voice black characters, can't have white singers host an R&B show, can't f*cking celebrate St Nicholas, can't read BDs, can't have statues, can't have murals, can't visit exhibitions, can't look at paintings, can't have f*cking museums, but somehow us "white poeple" are the fragile ones amirite?



Who are you to decide what people are allowed to appreciate? Is Wakanda a f*cking religion now?
When they defended Thor's look they took pride in being accurate to his mythological depiction, but in this case it is somehow "just fantsy".

GTFO with your absolutely pathetic arbitrarianism.

Those aren't good examples at all. Are you aware of the history of black people and white people in America? In the world even? You're ignoring some MAJOR context in black history and how black people were/are treated and seen compared to any other group.

As i stated, this is just one character that's black from the mythology. It isn't the whole history being changed or erased. More importantly, the people who are making these decisions are white with European ancestry. It's not black people making this choice and trying to claim Norse history as black.

That's the main takeaway for me. Often times it's white people deciding to change their own history/depiction and add something different, new. They have full control. Too many times when black/African history is changed it is not black people that are doing it. There's no say in this process. There's the feeling of culture being stolen away and whitewashed. Hence, in your terrible out of context examples, there's push back when something happens like a white lady speaking for a black culture as rich as R&B.


Black history/culture changed? Ain't no black people/company/organization doing it.

Black AND white history/culture changed? More often than not It's white people/company/organization that's fully the ones making that choice.
 

Relique

Gold Member
Anyone’s who’s ever been to Egypt also knows it’s juSt about 98% middle eastern today kind of the same way Japan is 98% Japanese today I’m not getting your point we’re not talking about today we’re talking thousands of years ago. I know exactly what it looks like over there now unlike you who had to google search protesters. SMH.

Edited to add:
I think everyone is clear that we’re not talking about today. Or even 50 years ago. Also no one said that the people in Egypt today resembled what they looked like thousands of years ago. That’s the debate.
I mean no disrespect but you really need to educate yourself a bit on history. You willfully ignored physical evidence of Egyptian portraits and statues from the 1st and 2nd century who look much like what Egyptians look like today. There is even older art if you care to look. You can't blame Arabs for what Egyptians look like today. They were much smaller in population, tribal and unorganized. The Arabs were completely irrelevant until 6-7th century AD. Islam didn't conquer Egypt until 639AD and even then, it took hundreds of years for it to become majority Muslim. Keep in mind that this is only conversion to Islam, and not actual settlement of Arabs. The Greeks, Romans, Nubians, all conquered Egypt at some point but they never settled to a large scale nor did they replace the huge Egyptian population that was there. It's more likely for a settler to assimilate into an existing culture than to replace it. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. Sure some of those Nubian and European figured made it into art, but let's not pretend that's what the majority of Egyptians looked like. It's historically rare for a population to be completely displaced at the scale that you claim happened, it would require near complete ethnic cleansing. None of the evidence we have support such a notion. And hell, all you have to do is look at their other North African neighbors. There are North African berber bedouins that take pride in being able to trace their lineage for thousands of years. Populating large North African regions spanning from Morocco to the west to Egypt in the East. Are we going to say they were replaced too?
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Of course, the ones who want no change and provided reasons that are universal and not related to a specific race care more about race than the ones who went out of their way to change the race and fail to provide reasons that are not related to race.. It's obvious :messenger_grinning_sweat:
Diversity is inherently racist. Consistency isn't.
 

strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur
Those aren't good examples at all. Are you aware of the history of black people and white people in America? In the world even? You're ignoring some MAJOR context in black history and how black people were/are treated and seen compared to any other group.

Oh I'm well aware of the history of black people in America, it's just that Americans seem to be very unaware of the history everywhere else in the world.
See my previous comment.
 
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On Demand

Member
See, this is why I'm bored of diversity being shoe horned into european dark ages just for the sake of diversity . What you're describing sounds a million times more interesting and I'm dying to explore it.

Can you even imagine how exciting that could be? From Egypt to Kongo, long before Europe said hello and took everything.

I don't know if you played Ancestors a humankind odyssey, but that team feels like a perfect fit for it. You can easily expand on that gameplay to more recent times with nomadic tribes etc.

This brings up another point i always make that black people need to get into gaming and make their own games and tell their own stories.
 

On Demand

Member
Issue here is she looks so...African American. As opposed to African. It's like making a Soviet war movie and casting Irish people with red hair to play the Russians. This is right up there with Capcom's African village of White people.

I cant wait until diversity mandates mean you'll have Black members of the SS in a WW2 movie or game.


African americans are mixed with white. It's obvious when you look at their factions. And this little girl has a relatively light skin color for a black person. She is definitely not 100% african.

There's alot of generalizing in these post. Very disrespectful generalizations and stereotypes.

All black people are not dark skin.

Some AA having a little European DNA in them, because of slavery of course, doesn’t mean anything and wouldn’t account for the stereotype you’re making. Everybody is mixed with something.

I’ve seen black Americans that look like continental Africans and continental Africans that look like black Americans. Again, all black people do not look the same or have the same skin tone. Whether in Africa, Europe, Caribbean, America.

You see this even more in Africa. There's is no homogeneous features in Africa. You have black people there with broad nose, straight nose, light skin, brown skin, dark skin, blue black skin, brown eyes, black eyes, blue eyes, green eyes, gray eyes, black hair, brownhair, red hair, blonde hair. The African gene is a very diverse and oldest gene.

African women can creat the entire human color spectrum from albino to dark skin.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Oh I'm well aware of the history of black people in America, it's just that Americans seem to be very unaware of the history everywhere else in the world.
See my previous comment.
Americans in general stick to knowing their own history and confine themselves. You'd be amazed how many dont have a passport and have never traveled outside of their borders.

When we'd have Canadian splashy annual sales meetings and invite US teams to come on over and chill with us for days worth of business, fun and dinners, half of them cant come over because they've never had a passport before.
 
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Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Because it’s fantasy, there’s no problem here. People who have a problem with it should take a moment to reflect why. It’s one character, it’s really nothing to be bothered by.
Exactly. It's a world of gods and monsters. A world where a 12yr old boy can talk to a serpent that is the size of a city and where the protagonist carried around a severed head that talks while wielding a magical axe. The game has also already stepped away from the traditional mythology of the setting in several respects. But no it's the female character with dark skin who is weird and out of place. She is the thing that breaks the immersion.


People get worked up over the weirdest stuff I swear.
 
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