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[nkarafo]

I started playing metroid a few months and I was kinda lost sometimes. But the good kind of lost, I felt rewarded every time.

See, getting lost sometimes is a part of all Metroid games experience. Getting lost is also a part of most games with exploration. If everything is obvious from the start then wheres the exploration?

The tricky part is to balance it so when you get lost, you don't stay lost for too long. That can be frustrating even though, personally, i don't mind it because after i finally figure out what to do it becomes more rewarding.

As long as the path makes sense and it's your fault you got lost, im fine with it.

 

[daveonezero]

Do you listen to classical music?

The point of videogames used to be overcoming a challenge. Not pressing buttons to watch what happens next.

I guess i'm old.

exaxtly. There is something to be said of a game that whole challenging is also very precise and fair.

it allows a much higher skill level to play the game and demonstrate some truly amazing gameplay.

while most of us just bang out some button combos.

 

[newtypepilot]

most games are too dumb down nowadays, from regenerative health, auto aim, press x to hack, etc, or even worse, offers "time savers" in the form of microtransactions. Players are so used to being spoonfed that when they face any form of challenge or difficulty they are complain about it rather using their brains to figure things out. Learn to git gud, ffs.

and metro dread isnt' even that hard. It counts as a checkpoint when you go through teleporters, which never happens in older metrovanias

 

[Halo is Back]

I'm too stressed out to play hard games these days.

 

[nkarafo]

The fact Kena has a easy difficulty (Story Mode difficulty) yet still has people complaining about "high difficulty" shows this.

They complain because the medium/normal difficulty is too difficult for them. They don't really want to play on easy because, in their mind, it reminds them how they suck at games.

Remember how they were offended by the witty Wolfenstein difficulty options? They take sucking at games as a highly offensive idea and they feel intimidated by people who have better hand-eye coordination than they do or something.

So the solution isn't really a difficulty select. They would still complain as they always do. The solution for them is for all games to be easy and accesible, period. This way nobody would notice how they aren't as good in videogames and they can continue making the whole world their safe space.

 

[PandemiaPorcina]

I agree overdificulty was made for people without jobs/girlfriends

 

[Woggleman]

Let devs make the games they want to make. You don't have to play them if you don't want to.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I'm not too far into Dread and I'm finding everything except for the Emmi parry encounters really easy. I'm surprised hearing that from Jaffe since God of War 3 wasn't an easy game. Twisted metal had some difficulty and depth to it as well.

Dude likes to talk out of his though so whatever

 

[nkarafo]

I agree overdificulty was made for people without jobs/girlfriends

Another misconception.

I have a job and i still prefer challenging games over press button to see what's next simulators. Also, i don't see how a girlfriend would not fit in your scedule if you like hard games?

Harder games don't always equal more time spent playing. There are a metric ton of longer games that are easy and grindy. You spend 200+ hours grinding in Skyrim but it's the 40 hour Dark Souls playthrough that will ruin your career and make your gf dump you?

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

They complain because the medium/normal difficulty is too difficult for them. They don't really want to play on easy because, in their mind, it reminds them how they suck at games.

Remember how they were offended by the witty Wolfenstein difficulty options? They take sucking at games as a highly offensive idea and they feel intimidated by people who have better hand-eye coordination than they do or something.

So the solution isn't really a difficulty select. They would still complain as they always do. The solution for them is for all games to be easy and accesible, period. This way nobody would notice how they aren't as good in videogames and they can continue making the whole world their safe space.

Pretty much. Not to mention most games are too easy these days. I hate "accessibility" in the way these Resetera types use it. They are all about every game having an easy mode even when that would be detrimental to the game.

Look how easy some Nintendo games have gotten. Most recent Mario for instance. While fun that piss easiness hurt the game. Look at Fallout 4 and most rpgs these days how you cam choose any skill you want and be a jack of all trades character. Totally ruins build crafting and replay ability.

Nintendo games in general used to be much harder than they are now. Let Dread be difficult Jesus christ Jaffe.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I agree overdificulty was made for people without jobs/girlfriends

That's a rediculous statement

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

most games are too dumb down nowadays, from regenerative health, auto aim, press x to hack, etc, or even worse, offers "time savers" in the form of microtransactions. Players are so used to being spoonfed that when they face any form of challenge or difficulty they are complain about it rather using their brains to figure things out. Learn to git gud, ffs.

and metro dread isnt' even that hard. It counts as a checkpoint when you go through teleporters, which never happens in older metrovanias

Agree with everything you said except auto aim. Auto aim is absolutely necessary for console aiming. The nature of an analogies stick means without auto aim even a good player would struggle with aiming. There's a reason why it's in every shooter.

 

[Killer8]

The thing you dense people cant understand is that we can have both

It can be a rollercoaster FOR YOU, just play on Hard mode or whatever, if you want your "true gamer experience" .
Or it could be a carousel for people that just want to enjoy the story, the art, whatever.

In Mass Effect 3 there was an easier than easy mode called Story Mode that was basicaly "just watch the goddamn thing"
Did I play it? Hell no.
But I bet your ass that there were some people that played that way and enjoyed it.

And you could still play the game on Normal/Hard. Didnt affect shit on your experience.

So no, I cant understand how options are bad, since by doing so it doesnt affect your enjoyment.

"Oh but in Sekiro the enjoyment comes from dying many times and finally succeeding", FOR YOU, you dumbass. Maybe some people just want to die a little less, experience the story, the different environments.

Gatekeeping HOW someone should enjoy the game is so fucking pretentious

All you and Jaffe are doing is dictating how developers / artists need to craft their work. You're shitting on developer's artistic freedom and spitting on their vision. In the process, you are also debasing the entire medium from an art-form to just a product that needs to tick a box.

To still keep this about Metroid Dread: why on Earth would a developer try to create a feeling of exploration, but then create a mode which points out all the secrets, like Jaffe wants... when that would take away from the very feeling they wanted to create? And yeah, I will call it the 'true' experience, because why would anyone willfully neuter for themselves the experience the developer wanted them to have?

You lazily say in another post "art is subjective". which is a hand-waive, surface level understanding. The opinion of the viewer is subjective, because of course everyone ultimately decides what they take away from a piece of work. But unless the artist is explicitly creating something very abstract that is purposefully open to interpretation, many artists have a very precise vision of what they want to realize in their work, how they want the player to feel, the message they want the player to take away, etc.

"Oh but in Sekiro the enjoyment comes from dying many times and finally succeeding", FOR YOU, you dumbass."

No, not just for me - by the very words of the director for over 10 years, that is the entire fucking point. I'm glad I saved all of these Miyazaki quotes from the last thread about this shitshow:

As I said in the thread earlier, "people who complain about gatekeeping are the people the gate was designed to keep out." When a piece of art sets out to create a specific experience, and then you want that experience changed 'so you can enjoy it', it stops being the same experience people fell in love with. It's like cunts who say "I just want to play Dark Souls for the story!", when that would miss everything From Software accomplished via gameplay.

You people also always deflect with "well our easy mode doesn't change it for hard mode people, so why should you care?", yet you miss the point that it's not even about comparisons with other people - it's about YOUR OWN GODDAMN experience now being changed for the worse.

Here is an example: the torture scene in Metal Gear Solid. Your crowd of whiners and game journalists would say about it: "Oh no, I don't want to go through the button tapping in Metal Gear Solid, it's really hard. Can't I skip this? I'm just in it for the story". That would completely miss the point that the difficulty is literally meant to make you feel as tortured as Solid Snake in that moment. Frankly, it's a genius use of the interactivity of gaming to push character development - allowing you to sit it out or make it easier wastes an opportunity to connect with the character's experience. Its unpleasantness is the point, but people are so averse to any form of discomfort in 2021 even if it may benefit their experience as a whole.

I've come to the conclusion that people like you view the hobby, as I said before, like a zoo. You just want to treat games like you're bouncing from one exhibit to the next, not really wanting to get anything deeper out of it if it's too much effort. Beat that game, now onto the next flavor of the week. You'll probably gush somewhere about how gaming should be treated as an art-form - yet will throw that out the window for Homer Simpson car game design if it means more people get to say they played the hot new release of the moment. You all sound like the type of people who unironically watch a David Lynch film on their iPhone:

 

[[Sigma]]

We are at point in our society where we just don't want to have to think our way through anything anymore. It has infected gaming culture for a while. I blame western society.

 

[Danjin44]

Are we going to have this type of threads every time game releases thats difficult!? Is it that hard for people to accept that some games might not be for them.

I'm dreading this place when Elden Ring releases.

 

[Hunnybun]

Personally I think it's kind of ridiculous to think games like Returnal and Demon's Souls shouldn't have easy modes on some kind of warped principle. That's just pathetic to me.

But for me the REAL problem with those games is how cheap they are. That sort of stuff seems to be tolerated because people seem to worry they'll be seen as rubes if they criticise it, but really until recently this was just understood to be bad design and straightforwardly bad.

e.g. in Souls having to constantly trudge through the same sections dozens of times, just to get to a tougher enemy whose patterns you need to figure out. That's bullshit. It's not fun, and it has no place in good game design. Fine, if you're a masochist and actually WANT that, then you can have the option to play that way, but it shouldn't be the default. Returnal does that too. Or the way in Returnal you got these insane difficulty spikes like 20 minutes into a run where you've not taken a single hit and then are just overwhelmed in one big fight.

Sorry but Jaffe's right. There is no good reason not to offer an easy option, and to abide by modern design principles.

 

[Horatius]

i mean this makes him look "games journalist playing cuphead" levels of dumb

like why would he publish this stream this is so embarrassing lmao

 

[Pull n Pray]

Jaffe made a video follow up to this tweet and he wasn't making much sense. He thinks he shouldn't have to turn the difficulty down to easy, and other people shouldn't have to turn the difficulty up to hard. The game should just adjust the challenge on its own to suit your ability. This would work great in a make believe world where everyone had an equal amount of patience, an equal desire for challenge, and were only differentiated by skill.

If you complain that a game is too hard, but aren't playing it on the easiest setting, then STFU. If you complain that a game is too easy, but aren't playing it on the hardest setting, then STFU.

 

[Northeastmonk]

Are we going to have this type of threads every time game releases thats difficult!? Is it that hard for people to accept that some games might not be for them.

I'm dreading this place when Elden Ring releases.

That’s when you turn the lights off on the internet.

 

[Hugare]

All you and Jaffe are doing is dictating how developers / artists need to craft their work. You're shitting on developer's artistic freedom and spitting on their vision. In the process, you are also debasing the entire medium from an art-form to just a product that needs to tick a box.

To still keep this about Metroid Dread: why on Earth would a developer try to create a feeling of exploration, but then create a mode which points out all the secrets, like Jaffe wants... when that would take away from the very feeling they wanted to create? And yeah, I will call it the 'true' experience, because why would anyone willfully neuter for themselves the experience the developer wanted them to have?

You lazily say in another post "art is subjective". which is a hand-waive, surface level understanding. The opinion of the viewer is subjective, because of course everyone ultimately decides what they take away from a piece of work. But unless the artist is explicitly creating something very abstract that is purposefully open to interpretation, many artists have a very precise vision of what they want to realize in their work, how they want the player to feel, the message they want the player to take away, etc.

"Oh but in Sekiro the enjoyment comes from dying many times and finally succeeding", FOR YOU, you dumbass."

No, not just for me - by the very words of the director for over 10 years, that is the entire fucking point. I'm glad I saved all of these Miyazaki quotes from the last thread about this shitshow:

As I said in the thread earlier, "people who complain about gatekeeping are the people the gate was designed to keep out." When a piece of art sets out to create a specific experience, and then you want that experience changed 'so you can enjoy it', it stops being the same experience people fell in love with. It's like cunts who say "I just want to play Dark Souls for the story!", when that would miss everything From Software accomplished via gameplay.

You people also always deflect with "well our easy mode doesn't change it for hard mode people, so why should you care?", yet you miss the point that it's not even about comparisons with other people - it's about YOUR OWN GODDAMN experience now being changed for the worse.

Here is an example: the torture scene in Metal Gear Solid. Your crowd of whiners and game journalists would say about it: "Oh no, I don't want to go through the button tapping in Metal Gear Solid, it's really hard. Can't I skip this? I'm just in it for the story". That would completely miss the point that the difficulty is literally meant to make you feel as tortured as Solid Snake in that moment. Frankly, it's a genius use of the interactivity of gaming to push character development - allowing you to sit it out or make it easier wastes an opportunity to connect with the character's experience. Its unpleasantness is the point, but people are so averse to any form of discomfort in 2021 even if it may benefit their experience as a whole.

I've come to the conclusion that people like you view the hobby, as I said before, like a zoo. You just want to treat games like you're bouncing from one exhibit to the next, not really wanting to get anything deeper out of it if it's too much effort. Beat that game, now onto the next flavor of the week. You'll probably gush somewhere about how gaming should be treated as an art-form - yet will throw that out the window for Homer Simpson car game design if it means more people get to say they played the hot new release of the moment. You all sound like the type of people who unironically watch a David Lynch film on their iPhone:

I wanna say that I appreciate the effort you put into this post

And you were doing pretty good, but your last pharagraph was so full of pretentious bullshit that I had to roll my eyes to the back of my skull

Saying that just because I dont appreciate Souls-like design of "repetition until you make it", for example, I dont look for deeper experiences in gaming is again, so pretentious.

That last clip from Lynch says it all. Yeah, I dont agree with him. Its better for someone to experience the movie on a fucking phone than never having the opportunity to watch it at all.

Hundreds of thousands, even millions of people watch shows on their phones while going to work. They wouldnt have time to watch them otherwise. To say that they arent really experiencing Twin Peaks or whatever by watching on their phone is just ridiculous.

It goes to show that we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[The Eradicator]

Seems like a lot of people have forgotten that a game is meant to be challenging, or else it isn't much of a game.

How many people would have replayed Bloodborne with an easy mode just to breeze through and see all that art again.

If all you want to do is "look at the art", then you could just watch a video. Games are meant to be played, by definition. If there isn't a challenge to be found, then you're not really playing a game anymore.

 

[Hunnybun]

The idea that there's somehow an artistic equivalence between the inaccessibility of something like Ulysses, with all its incredibly dense and subtle language, and the fast reactions required for a game like Returnal is fucking LAUGHABLE.

There aren't many games that qualify as art, but for those that do there's no correlation between the level of skill required and artistic value. That isn't what art is. It's not about physical challenge.

 

[Hugare]

Seems like a lot of people have forgotten that a game is meant to be challenging, or else it isn't much of a game.

If all you want to do is "look at the art", then you could just watch a video. Games are meant to be played, by definition. If there isn't a challenge to be found, then you're not really playing a game anymore.

Visual novels are games. Walking simulators are games.

Going through an action game in easy mode is a game

We are reaching "Marvel movies is not cinema" levels of absurdity now

 

[nickfrancis86]

Difficulty is kind of an arbitrary metric to go off anyway IMO. Personally it does nothing for me, it doesn't add anything to the gameplay. It translates to "how annoyed am I going to get" whilst playing. When people say they completed X game on hard, basically they played it enough until it became easy. I don't get a sense of achievement from it, it's more of a "that fuck that's over with".

It's almost like saying Final Fantasy XIV is inaccessible because it's too much of a time sink. If you've got lots of spare time and are willing to play, it's not a time sink.

 

[Hobbygaming]

I can understand where's he's coming from. I haven't had too much trouble with Kena yet but Returnal beats me up daily

 

[noqtic]

Play something else. Every game isn't meant for everybody. Problem solved.

Some games are built around the skill it takes to play them and the reward a player gets for overcoming those challenges and there is nothing wrong with that. Should more games have difficulty options? Sure, but I won't complain if a developer doesn't put it in.

 

[bender]

Not every game is for everyone. Some players like games that provide a challenge (look at the recent popularity in roguelites). You can argue that challenge can be accomplished with difficulty level but I'd counter that with higher difficulty levels rarely feel as well designed as a challenging game that has no difficulty options.

 

[Radrigal]

We doing this shit now? Not every game is for you, stupid. I suck at many genres but I don't complain or shit on them to be made 'easier' or more 'accessible'. That's how we end up with dumbed down shit where there are no stakes and nothing really matters, even your own experience.

I can't remember how many times I died in Bloodborne, let alone how many times I died at Cleric Beast alone. How many times I died when the boss was just a sliver of health away from defeat. But when I finally beat him, it was something else. It just clicked. It was the rush, the adrenaline, the frustration, and the sense of accomplishment when I finally got over that hurdle. Games are fun for many, many reasons, and no, they shouldn't be neutered just for mass appeal.

Want a challenge, there's a game for that. Want to chill? Got one for that too.

Don't be like this.

 

[Shifty1897]

Ares was hard as shit to beat in the OG God of War.

 

[MajinSweet4]

The idea that there's somehow an artistic equivalence between the inaccessibility of something like Ulysses, with all its incredibly dense and subtle language, and the fast reactions required for a game like Returnal is fucking LAUGHABLE.

There aren't many games that qualify as art, but for those that do there's no correlation between the level of skill required and artistic value. That isn't what art is. It's not about physical challenge.

Imagine being so into gaming as a hobby that you spend time posting on an enthusiast gaming forum, then talk down about actually playing games. I just don't get it.

 

[RafterXL]

I'm gonna say the same thing I say when the babies come out to cry about Souls games not having difficulty levels...play something else.

For every "hard" game out there there are hundreds, if not thousands, that can be beaten by a 5 year old, go play one of those. Everything is not about you, made for you, catered to you...suck it up.

If a developer decides to have options for difficulty so be it, if they don't...jog on.

Visual novels are games. Walking simulators are games.

No, they aren't. There has to be gameplay for it to be a game.

 

[ReBurn]

I don't play video games for a challenge so I'm not going to buy games that are made to be punishing. About the most difficulty I want these days is trying to place one spot higher in Tetris 99. If developers want to make their games hard then that's fine. I'll just play something else. My priority is not to spend hours and hours getting good at Demon's Souls or Bloodborne for the sake of getting good at it.

So in a way I agree with Jaffe. Some games are so difficult that they're not fun for me. I just have the good sense to not play them. He has every right to be critical of those games just like everyone here has the right to be critical of him. There's really not a right or wrong since it's all opinions anyway.

 

[The Eradicator]

Visual novels are games. Walking simulators are games.

Going through an action game in easy mode is a game

We are reaching "Marvel movies is not cinema" levels of absurdity now

No, we're not, that is a total false equivalence. I'm not discussing the artistic integrity of a given game. I'm saying that, by very definition, a "game" requires that there is some challenge to overcome. A walking sim, with no challenge, isn't a game, it's an interactive experience in video format. Are we going to pretend that a VR tour is also a "game" simply because you're using VR? Just because you've pixelated your experience, that doesn't automatically qualify it as a "game". A game on "easy mode" can still be a game, if there is some level of challenge. A visual novel, sorry, isn't a game. You can sell it as a game, but it isn't.
And btw,a "walking sim" can still have some challenge to it, see Edith Finch. You don't need to take all challenge away. It's not hard by any stretch, but you have to actually DO things. Simply looking around at things in a pixelated environment doesn't make a game. Look up the synonyms for "game" sometime. "Challenge, contest" will be found.

 

[The Eradicator]

I'll just play something else. My priority is not to spend hours and hours getting good at Demon's Souls or Bloodborne for the sake of getting good at it.

You don't spend the hours "for the sake of getting good", you spend the hours because of the payoff you get for winning. The feeling between beating something challenging, and simply going through the motions on a checklist game just can't compare. You don't get your heart pumping and your adrenaline rate up by playing something that is not hard for you. If you haven't gotten that gaming experience before, then you don't know what you're missing. If you've never had your hands shaking after you beat a tough boss, then you wouldn't understand why people play these games.

 

[The Eradicator]

Difficulty is kind of an arbitrary metric to go off anyway IMO. Personally it does nothing for me, it doesn't add anything to the gameplay. It translates to "how annoyed am I going to get" whilst playing. When people say they completed X game on hard, basically they played it enough until it became easy. I don't get a sense of achievement from it, it's more of a "that fuck that's over with".

There's a big difference between a game being annoying because of annoyances in the game, and a game being annoying because it's challenging. I've never been annoyed by a challenging segment of a game. I get annoyed when a game has a poorly designed mechanic that is frustrating me.

 

[nkarafo]

Visual novels are games. Walking simulators are games.

Going through an action game in easy mode is a game

We are reaching "Marvel movies is not cinema" levels of absurdity now

A game is an activity where you can either win or lose. You need to overcome your opponent (another player, the cpu, enemies, hazzards, etc) in order not to lose. This makes winning a rewarding experience and that's the whole point of games existing.

If there isn't a losing state to worry about then it isn't a game, it's a toy.

 

[The Eradicator]

Personally I think it's kind of ridiculous to think games like Returnal and Demon's Souls shouldn't have easy modes on some kind of warped principle. That's just pathetic to me.

But for me the REAL problem with those games is how cheap they are. That sort of stuff seems to be tolerated because people seem to worry they'll be seen as rubes if they criticise it, but really until recently this was just understood to be bad design and straightforwardly bad.

e.g. in Souls having to constantly trudge through the same sections dozens of times, just to get to a tougher enemy whose patterns you need to figure out. That's bullshit. It's not fun, and it has no place in good game design. Fine, if you're a masochist and actually WANT that, then you can have the option to play that way, but it shouldn't be the default. Returnal does that too. Or the way in Returnal you got these insane difficulty spikes like 20 minutes into a run where you've not taken a single hit and then are just overwhelmed in one big fight.

Sorry but Jaffe's right. There is no good reason not to offer an easy option, and to abide by modern design principles.

Playing a challenging game isn't being a "masochist", no matter how many times people say it. It's crazy to say that the challenge doesn't need to be in the game, when for some games, it's literally the point of the game's design. If it's not for you, then it's not for you, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't exist for others who want things that way. Can't physically play every game anyway, so move on to something else. No sense getting mad that some people like harder games.

 

[nkarafo]

Fine, if you're a masochist and actually WANT that

You are no better than someone who says "if you like easy games you are a wimp or a baby".

There are a ton of different reasons why someone prefers hard or easy games. I prefer a challenge myself but sometimes i feel like playing something relaxing. There's a game for every taste and mood.

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

I don't have loads of time to play, but just beat second boss in Dread. I'm not finding it hard at all. The EMMIs kick my butt a bunch of times, but eh...that's the only hard thing. I'm by no means a master boss destroyer in any game, but after 3 or 4 tries, I get the pattern in Dread and have downed both. Never really felt lost/enjoyed just trying new areas and shooting enemies/running on the way.
He's wrong on Dread.

 

[ReBurn]

You don't spend the hours "for the sake of getting good", you spend the hours because of the payoff you get for winning. The feeling between beating something challenging, and simply going through the motions on a checklist game just can't compare. You don't get your heart pumping and your adrenaline rate up by playing something that is not hard for you. If you haven't gotten that gaming experience before, then you don't know what you're missing. If you've never had your hands shaking after you beat a tough boss, then you wouldn't understand why people play these games.

No, that may be why you play, but it is not why I play. There is no payoff for me to "get good". I do it as a distraction and a way to blow off steam. I have no desire to get my heart rate up or my adrenaline pumping. I get enough of that in my real life. I play video games because I want to relax.

And that's the whole point of a hobby. To find enjoyment in it. I'll put my effort into productive things.

 

[Exede]

Metroid Dread is no hard game.... i'm 41 my reflexes are DEAD and i 100% it.

 

[Danjin44]

Metroid Dread is no hard game.... i'm 41 my reflexes are DEAD and i 100% it.

My theory is these us days some people just hate act of playing video games and they just just want to turn of their brain and that’s fine and all, it’s their choice but they shouldn’t expect every game to be mindless like that.

 

[Hunnybun]

Imagine being so into gaming as a hobby that you spend time posting on an enthusiast gaming forum, then talk down about actually playing games. I just don't get it.

Imagine thinking anything you spend time doing is art.

 

[NoviDon]

Getting your shit stomped in by a boss you feel like is impossible, then having these mini epyphanies and learning its tells one by one and stacking experience, and going toe to toe with something you thought you may never get past, killing it with like 2% health left is amazing. That "Gotcha Bitch!" feeling is second to none.

 

[GymWolf]

Its incredible how fast everyone had turned on him just because he thought a portion of Metroid was designed badly and he was hyperbolic with his phrasing (not like this is a surprise to anyone who's watched him before).

Talk about a tribe mentality. People need to relax.

People was always 50/50 with him in here, he said a lot of stupid shit in the past.

He is doing all by himself tbh, he is a public figure with a yt channel, if you call moron every guy who has a different opinion then you are ASKING for people talking shit about you.

 

[Hunnybun]

Playing a challenging game isn't being a "masochist", no matter how many times people say it. It's crazy to say that the challenge doesn't need to be in the game, when for some games, it's literally the point of the game's design. If it's not for you, then it's not for you, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't exist for others who want things that way. Can't physically play every game anyway, so move on to something else. No sense getting mad that some people like harder games.

If you're not very good at those games, then dying is almost literally punishing, ie you're inflicted with a painful and tedious experience if you want to try again. Enjoying that is masochism, especially in the playful sense I clearly meant.

I've yet to see a single good argument for why very hard games mustn't have an easier mode. The game could still be designed around the hard mode. The hard mode could still be the default. An easy mode need consist of no more than double the health pickups, say.

I genuinely don't understand why that would be a problem for some people. If even a few people enjoyed playing like that, why would that perturb you?

What kind of answer is "not every game is for you!"? Why should that be? When making a game more accessible would be SO easy, why shouldn't it be for more people?

 

[Eevee86]

Dread probably would be incredibly hard when you refuse to free aim and jump shoot like it's an NES game.

 

[Darak]

A game is an activity where you can either win or lose. You need to overcome your opponent (another player, the cpu, enemies, hazzards, etc) in order not to lose. This makes winning a rewarding experience and that's the whole point of games existing.

If there isn't a losing state to worry about then it isn't a game, it's a toy.

I don't think that's what a game is. There are a big number of games where you can never win, no matter what you do (example: infinite wave shooters; making up your own winning rules such as 'play for longer time or score compared to my PB' is not the same thing, because then everything can be a game and the definition would become useless). There are also many games where you simply cannot die or lose (a lot of point & click graphic adventures, hidden object games, and many puzzle games too; if 'being stuck' counts as a lose condition, then almost anything interactive can be a game, including walking simulators).

There are as many definitions of 'game' as there are scholars in the field. Game design books have been wasting their first chapter to offer their own definition for ages, and they are all mostly incompatible with each other.

The thing is, definitions are inferred from usage, not the other way around. The qualification of something as a 'game' may simply follow historical reasons (the first visual novels had RPG-like components and failure conditions, so we now consider visual novel as games; the first choose-your-own-adventure books were inspired by tabletop RPGs, so we consider them games; walking simulators evolved from narrative-heavy FPS games, and so on). It may even make little sense, or vary from people to people. Language is chaos, and that's ok. If people calls it game, it's a game. If people calls it a toy, it's a toy. After all, that's how language works.

 

[nkarafo]

I've yet to see a single good argument for why very hard games mustn't have an easier mode.

Because it may be against the philosophy of a certain game's whole design. Dunno, ask the developers, not the players. I assume adding an easy mode isn't as simple as changing a few numbers if your game very heavily relies on overcoming tough challenges.

Something like Dark Souls would have no point if you could beat bosses with a few hits or you being a hit sponge. All the items, the weapons, armor, figuring out a good combination of those along with what helpful items to use, etc, to beat a boss with certain weaknesses or attack style... All of that would be thrown out of the window if such game had it's numbers changed in order to be easier. The whole point of the game would not exist anymore. Just ignore everything, use whatever items happen to drop in your way, press the attack button repeatedly and you win?

If you don't care about the point of a game then how is it different than watching a playthrough of it on Youtube? Why such solution is so offensive to some? Youtube videos have good quality nowadays, you can enjoy the story and enviroments of any game at 4K without having to worry about wasting your time with deaths and challenges.

 

[Certinty]

I don't fully understand how people can say "let the devs make the game they want" when it comes to not having easier modes for some players. No one is stopping them from doing that.

Do you think Activision are making the game they want by allowing people to play Call of Duty campaigns on recruit difficulty where you can run through the whole campaign without dying a single time? Are Polyphony making the game they want when having traction control, ABS, automatic gears etc. on every car in Gran Turismo? How about in Far Cry 5 which was just released having a story mode where players can breeze through the gameplay?

You can still make the game you want and have options for those who don't/can't play the game as intended whilst those people who do can. Just because a game is more accessible shouldn't change anything for those who want to play the game as intended.