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[GI.biz] Nier Replicant debuts at #1 in the UK (89% of sales on PlayStation)

Skifi28

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Exactly, it isn't but theres still people trying to argue that the smaller sales are because xbox users are "trained" to wait games to appear on gamepass or some shit.
It's a very large disparity and there's not much in the way of hard proof, so people are naturally speculating. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. How gamepass affects buying habits is certainly an interesting angle to add to the discussion.
 

Guilty_AI

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It's a very large disparity and there's not much in the way of hard proof, so people are naturally speculating. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. How gamepass affects buying habits is certainly an interesting angle to add to the discussion.
I could argue the same abou PS+ games, or even normal game sales. Should've been way too broad to give room to speculation, its obvious people are just trying to find random reasons to criticize gamepass.
 

Skifi28

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I could argue the same abou PS+ games, or even normal game sales. Should've been way too broad to give room to speculation, its obvious people are just trying to find random reasons to criticize gamepass.
If the game sold olny 20% on playstation, it would make sense to consider such a scenario, but it didn't. Not to mention PS plus is nowhere near the userbase of gamepass and Sony isn't really pushing the service. I think you're just taking this a little too personally.

Edit: I was thinking of PS now. Though the original point stands, in this case the argument doesn't make sense as PS had the lion's share.
 
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Heisenberg007

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so the narrative now is "Game sold less on xbox because gamepass is evil!", and not the obvious fact Nier/drakengard series and other niche japanese games have a very small user base there?

Exactly, it isn't but theres still people trying to argue that the smaller sales are because xbox users are "trained" to wait games to appear on gamepass or some shit.
In my earlier comment, I shared the example of Hitman 3 -- a game that wasn't a Japanese title. But the sales ratio was again 74:26 in favor of PS5. That goes against your argument.

Perhaps there is some truth that gamers on Xbox would rather wait, hoping for a game to come on Gamepass even if there are no rumors or chances, instead of buying the game.
 

Foorbits

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Who the fuck is going to buy Nier if they have Game Pass? GP users are eating great there is zero need to buy outside of that subscription unless its something like GTA6 or Call of Duty. This is following the exact same path of music and movies/tvs. Why the concern here? The same shit will happen on Playstation when they finally get serious about their game service.

And you all are arguing over retail game sales in 2021 as if they have any relevance at this point. Microsoft is chewing on 22 million users and third parties like SquareEnix are exposing a lot of their games to millions of those users a day. How many copies did Nier sell in the UK? Tens of thousands? :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Guilty_AI

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Edit: I was thinking of PS now. Though the original point stands, in this case the argument doesn't make sense as PS had the lion's share.
I could argue the game could've sold a lot more if it weren't for PS+. And yes, it doesn't make sense, thats the point.

I think you're just taking this a little too personally.
I am, do you know how many people stopped posting because they got fed up with this kind of dumb console warring logic some of you keep throwing around?

Are you under the impression that a service like Gamepass has no effect on spending habits?
Are you under the impression that a service like PS+ and summer/winter/spring/autumn sales have no effect on spending habits?

In my earlier comment, I shared the example of Hitman 3 -- a game that wasn't a Japanese title. But the sales ratio was again 74:26 in favor of PS5. That goes against your argument.
Then let me present you some new arguments:
As of 2020 August:
PS4 has sold 112.96 million
Xbox One 48.22 million units

Makes sense now? Can i stop arguing about what should be obvious?
 
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Skifi28

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I am, do you know how many people stopped posting because they got fed up with this kind of dumb console warring logic some of you keep throwing around?
I don't see much console warring in this thread though, most users seem to be engaging in harmless discussion. Other than the "leave Brit....I mean gamepass alone" posts.

I could argue the game could've sold a lot more if it weren't for PS+. And yes, it doesn't make sense, thats the point.
You could and you are free to, as little sense as it makes. PS plus is a completely different service. Waiting for a game to come to plus, one could be waiting for many years. It doesn't really make sense and I believe most PS plus users don't operate this way. Gamepass has built different expectations and has a much larger volume of games per month. If they continue doing day one PS5 games every month for a while, we very well could be looking at a similar situation (but perhaps at a smaller scale.)
 
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Guilty_AI

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I don't see much console warring in this thread though, most users seem to be engaging in harmless discussion. Other than the "leave Brit....I mean gamepass alone" posts.
Of course it isn't console warring, just like how making a giant post trying to prove Halo Infinite screenshots were faked is just a 'perfectly reasonable and well constructed argument'.

BTW, i don't even have gamepass nor do i own a xbox, just a concerned citizen.
 

Thirty7ven

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Are you under the impression that a service like PS+ and summer/winter/spring/autumn sales have no effect on spending habits?

Sales? Absolutely they do. Yes. A lot of people don't buy games until they go on sale, I'm one of those save for a few exceptions. Which is why initial sales numbers still carry so much weight, since it's when people are paying full price for it.

PS+? I mean, with the kind of games it usually gives away, how they only stay available for a month, the number per month... hard to see it having much of an impact on spending habits.


hen let me present you some new arguments:
As of 2020 August:
PS4 has sold 112.96 million
Xbox One 48.22 million units

Makes sense now? Can i stop arguing about what should be obvious?

What's up with people not reading or completely misrepresent what's being said? PS5.
 
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Skifi28

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Of course it isn't console warring, just like how making a giant post trying to prove Halo Infinite screenshots were faked is just a 'perfectly reasonable and well constructed argument'.
Is this in this thread? I missed it. If you have a problem with a specific post/user you can report or ignore them. Trying to shut down all discussion about something because you saw a post you didn't like isn't really the way.
 
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ethomaz

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Wrong thread lol
 
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megreotsugua

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Games not on gamepass are bound to be affected by its existence though. It has to affect buying habits, it directly impacts the perception of value.

I agree.

If Sony makes a sub service with day1 AAA games, it will be hard for 3rd party games to sell unless the games are really sought after. It's either the game sell less or they sell to sub service right off the bat.

I hope Sony don't follow gamepass. Just continue with PS+ or make something like a higher tier version with bigger selection of PS+ Collection. Keep it low price. The service has to be supplemental and not the primary way to consume games.
 

Guilty_AI

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Is this in this thread? I missed it. If you have a problem with a specific post/user you can report or ignore them. Trying to shut down all discussion about something because you saw a post you didn't like isn't really the way.
Not really shutting down any discussion, just pointing out its a stupid argument, originally hadn't even quoted any of the people saying it. If anything, its you and other users who seem to be trying to shut me down since my opinion seems to be a bother.

Sales? Absolutely they do. Yes. A lot of people don't buy games until they go on sale, I'm one of those save for a few exceptions. Which is why initial sales numbers still carry so much weight, since it's when people are paying full price for it.

PS+? I mean, with the kind of games it usually gives away, how they only stay available for a month, the number per month... hard to see it having much of an impact on spending habits.
See? Loads and loads of factors at play here.

What's up with people not reading or completely misrepresent what's being said? PS5.
If anything, mine makes more sense in context considering this Nier is a ps4/xone game mainly. And the disparage in sales of previous gen can be a strong indicative of how the new gen is going in short term. Also, Hitman 3 had a strong digital launch, so physical sales are even less of an indicative.
 

SSfox

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Well hopefully this will remind Jimbo and Hermen how much Japanese games are essential and ultra dupra important for playstation 🤷‍♂️
 
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QuantumZebra

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You too, can help a struggling games director in need. For just a one time payment of $60 USD, you can make the difference in a 50 year old Japanese man's life, named Yoko Taro.

A sale of FIFA or Assassin's Creed is just a drop in the bucket. 5 million, 10 million sold - not much changes. But for just 2 million copies sold, the life of Yoko Taro can change, and he too can be given an actual budget to make great games. Pick up the phone and make that call ... today.


A special message below, from Yoko Taro :lollipop_anguish:




Jesus Yoko is a troll, but he's also right. Man that guy is confusing but not.

Guess they won't do that van tour...
lmao...
"Please, anything but the van"

- Yosuke Saito
 
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ChuckeRearmed

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The only reason people complained about MLB not being on PS Now day one (or at the very least PS+) is due to the disparity considering the game is actually developed by a PlayStation studio.
But the problem was not the complaining per se - it was perfectly justified - but people went after MLB for doing a deal with MS behind Sony's back, rather than going after Sony and telling them to put the game on PS+ or PS Now.

It is undeniable that Sony is given a lot of slack (in comparison to Xbox where there is even a running joke is that Xbox fans are just a different breed of Bungie fans - whatever Xbox does people complain) - but at least now it is changing as we saw with store closure that was stopped due to backlash. Eventually - I hope - people will start asking Sony questions about why do you consider that stuff unsustainable while paying millions for time exclusivity (with not benefits for consumer).

Though as we see even here, people find various reason to justify paying the full price while publishers make the record profits (not to mention in Europe price increase happened twice during the generation) and Sony even encourages to do that. Even when people argued regarding RE Village and Game Pass, there was a defense force claiming that the game should have not come to Game Pass because it would be a bad look for Sony. But who cares if you essentially would have got the game anyway and just somebody else would have got it as a part of subscription service. Playstation gamer would have lost nothing, because he would have paid the full price for the game anyway.

Sounds great. So sad that when you have Gamepass, you get your license to buy physical games revoked. Phil Spencer can't keep getting away with it.
Well, Phil Spencer is running the illegal Game Pass business after all :messenger_tears_of_joy:
I’m sure Square would have taken the Gamepass deal, if they saw how poorly it would sell.
I think publishers now try various options and collect the statistics - like release the game with or without Game Pass and check sales, release full price multiplayer game in Game Pass and don't release it. Release the niche game and check and so on, and so on. Exciting times!

It would be interesting to get the statistics regarding the % of people who try Game Pass games.
  • Let's say out of 20 mil. 20% tried the game and 20% of those purchased the game. 20kk x 0.2 -> 4kk x 0.2 -> 800k copies sold at once. Depending on the game that % may vary as it can be smaller or it can be bigger
  • We also have people who would have purchased the game anyway - with or without Game Pass
  • We have the people who would not have purchased the game without trying it in Game Pass because they for example did not know a lot of about the game, but got to like after trying (for a lot people Game Pass is essentially a demo for the game). Keep in mind the games are leaving Game Pass so it encourages people to purchase them before they leave (while people still pay for Game Pass!).
  • It also encourages them to spend more on DLC because the usual logic is - well I did not pay for the game anyway and DLC is cheaper than the full game. I mean if you did not pay 60$ for the game you are more likely to purchase 15$ DLC. Or spend some money on MTX - and we know from the reports of EA (lol) that they expect to get several times more money from MTX rather than sales. And you see it quite often with all those record profits from F2P games and games on mobile.
  • Regarding F2P - we will see eventually - but according to some observations - Outriders demonstrated the behavior of F2P title while being a full priced game. Why? Because F2P is all about word of mouth and people are willing to purchase the game because some else tried it on Game Pass for example, but they don't own Xbox however they have PS or PC so they will buy the game there.
  • And we need to remember that the biggest gaming market is the mobile market which is all about F2P, in game transactions and not fully priced sales at all. And we have - and will have - a generation that played only on touch controls and mobile, the generation that doesn't care about sales of the game at all but more into in-game purchases (all those gold, cosmetics and so on)
All in all, it is very interesting and you can see that there are lot of revenue streams in that approach that are not solely rely on sales. Publishers are trying different approaches but I fully expect that most of the games that are not expected to sell a lot of copies at once. Unless of course somebody will try to moneyhat them not to appear there but that's a separate matter. But bigger Game Pass, more expensive money hats. We'll see how it's gonna work out.
I liken it to going to the cinema to watch something specific at a particular time vs staying at home, firing up Netflix and then browsing for something random to watch
Just like with cinema - there is a handful of games that people consider buying full price. It has always been like this to be honest - games are either succeed or flop and now with the situation that making big games is not affordable as you cannot
I mentioned earlier that with Game Pass there are more ways to earn $$$ from the gaming that by selling copies. Just like cinema industry basically died for everything that is not a huge juggernaut or just like it died for smaller movies (usually came on DVDs without releases in theater).
Now if you're going to tell me that the reason for the sales disparity in this instance is because most Xbox gamers don't want to play Nier then that's fine, it's a matter of taste in that case. However if people are not buying games anymore (and a pattern is starting to emerge here) because they are "waiting" for games to come to gamepass then there's a larger problem at play and those people are not sending a positive signal to publishers and developers.

"Gamepass or bust" is a silly hill to die on and it has the potential to eventually result in a scenario where companies will be hesitant to develop for a platform where new game sales are drying up.
Nah, with Game Pass we are highly like to get more games than ever before. After it hasn't launched in asia yet

For now the publishers are experimenting with the model - try to release this game day 1 and this one not, etc etc. Game Pass is a new way to consume the content. Of course some platform holders - except Nintendo - will try to oppose that model, but that is the future anyway.


If you're saying that playstation owners foot the bill then you'd also be saying PC (and even switch owners where applicable) would be footing the bill. Quite frankly that is bollocks and horribly naive. The only company footing the bill for Xbox games that end up on Gamepass is Microsoft.
PC is the interesting case but the market there is incredible diverse. I mean top earners usually is the incredible diverse set of games - strategies, simulators, online games, shooters etc.
 
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Thirty7ven

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If anything, mine makes more sense in context considering this Nier is a ps4/xone game mainly. And the disparage in sales of previous gen can be a strong indicative of how the new gen is going in short term. Also, Hitman 3 had a strong digital launch, so physical sales are even less of an indicative.

Actually it doesn't make much sense, and you are making assumptions based on personal theories and not on any hard data. Unless you are saying that there are already twice the amount of PS5s out there as there are Xboxs. Where did you get those numbers? PS4 having sold twice the amount vs Xbox seems hardly relevant for how a game does on PS5 vs Series.

Physical sales are indicative because this isn't a case where on one platform 90% of the people buy digital and on another only 10% buy digital. Again you are dismissing an observation based on... nothing.

In fact you aren't trying to actual have a conversation, you are trying to kill it by way of "We don't know, could be many things who knows, let's not talk about it or try to find patterns etc". Sorry you don't like the discussion.

"Loads and loads of factors" LOL Ok Jan. If a game sells 20 million copies, but only 10 million copies at full price... that isn't a load of factors. In fact these companies pick up that data and can learn about how much are people willing to pay XYZ for games. That's how they know a lot of people are willing to pay 70$, and how they can tier prices through discounts in later stages. Jesus man, this whole trying to muddy the data so that nothing can be learned from it is just... awful. Don't do this, you're promoting ignorance.
 
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Heisenberg007

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Then let me present you some new arguments:
As of 2020 August:
PS4 has sold 112.96 million
Xbox One 48.22 million units

Makes sense now? Can i stop arguing about what should be obvious?
As Thirty7ven Thirty7ven pointed out, it is not just about PlayStation vs. Xbox. It is also about PS5 vs. Xbox Series X and S.

Recent data suggest that PS5 has sold 5.5M+ units, while XSX|S have sold roughly 4M units. That is not that big of a split, as was on display with Hitman 3 sales.

If we look at overall PlayStation vs. Xbox sales, the ratio is 2.3x in favor of PS. A split of 90:10 (Nier) and 74:26 (Hitman) is significantly higher than that 2.3x ratio.
 
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Guilty_AI

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Actually it doesn't make much sense, and you are making assumptions based on personal theories and not on any hard data.
What a deliciously ironic thing to say.

Unless you are saying that there are already twice the amount of PS5s out there as there are Xboxs. Where did you get those numbers?
I said fairly clearly it can be an indicative, we won't get numbers unless MS give us them.

Physical sales are indicative because this isn't a case where on one platform 90% of the people buy digital and on another only 10% buy digital. Again you are dismissing an observation based on... nothing.
I'm basing myself on the publishers words btw, they said digital sales were one of their biggests yet for the series.
 

Bernd Lauert

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As Thirty7ven Thirty7ven pointed out, it is not just about PlayStation vs. Xbox. It is also about PS5 vs. Xbox Series X and S.

Recent data suggest that PS5 has sold 5.5M+ units, while XSX|S have sold roughly 4M units. That is not that big of a split, as was on display with Hitman 3 sales.

If we look at overall PlayStation vs. Xbox sales, the ratio is 2.3x in favor of PS. A split of 90:10 (Nier) and 74:26 (Hitman) is significantly higher than that 2.3x ratio.
Mixing UK only and worldwide data, implying that both consoles have the same user profile... this analysis is rather weak. But it's all we have I guess.
 

Heisenberg007

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Mixing UK only and worldwide data, implying that both consoles have the same user profile... this analysis is rather weak. But it's all we have I guess.
We can only use the data we have. It's still better than nothing or mere assumptions.

And the UK is Xbox's second-biggest market. If there is a large disparity here, it is relatively safer to assume that the disparity will be even larger in other regions and countries (except for perhaps US), e.g., Spain, Germany, Japan, etc.

Edt: And I was specifically talking about the different user profiles. More specifically, the consumer spending habits after the introduction of Gamepass, which have likely changed.
 
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Dabaus

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Who the fuck is going to buy Nier if they have Game Pass? GP users are eating great there is zero need to buy outside of that subscription unless its something like GTA6 or Call of Duty. This is following the exact same path of music and movies/tvs. Why the concern here? The same shit will happen on Playstation when they finally get serious about their game service.

And you all are arguing over retail game sales in 2021 as if they have any relevance at this point. Microsoft is chewing on 22 million users and third parties like SquareEnix are exposing a lot of their games to millions of those users a day. How many copies did Nier sell in the UK? Tens of thousands? :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Sonys chewing on a user base of 120 million ps4 and probably close to 7 Million on PS5, that also has an affinity for purchasing games.
 
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Thirty7ven

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What a deliciously ironic thing to say.


I said fairly clearly it can be an indicative, we won't get numbers unless MS give us them.


I'm basing myself on the publishers words btw, they said digital sales were one of their biggests yet for the series.

PS5 versions of games selling disproportional better than Series versions, despite the overlap in demos... is not a personal theory. A subscription service affecting spending habits is also not a personal theory, it's fact. Itunes, Spotify, Netflix, Disney + etc. What am I supposed to pretend Gamepass is the first subscription of the kind?

MS won't give you numbers that don't look better than the competition unless they are forced to. So.. yeah.

Yes games these days sell like 65% to 70% digital. It's proportional. You know how proportions work?

Mixing UK only and worldwide data, implying that both consoles have the same user profile... this analysis is rather weak. But it's all we have I guess.

There's some truth to this, if we look at the TOP selling games in Xbox vs Playstation, they are not identical. But they are very similar, which obviously is what also makes Xbox vs Playstation a thing and not a Xbox vs Nintendo. There's a lot of overlap.

For there to be a big difference in the user profile, we need examples of games that sell quite a bit better on Xbox despite lower userbase.
 
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Mr Moose

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Then let me present you some new arguments:
As of 2020 August:
PS4 has sold 112.96 million
Xbox One 48.22 million units

Makes sense now? Can i stop arguing about what should be obvious?
This is a UK thread, 112/48M is irrelevant.
And it was the PS5 version that sold the most on launch.
"The PS5 version of the game was by far the dominant edition, accounting for 49% of sales. The Xbox version accounted for 27%, while the PS4 version made up 25%."
 

Heisenberg007

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That's debatable. Incomplete data can lead to very wrong results. Sometimes it's better to just say "idk". Now if we had both physical and digital numbers, that'd be way better.
That'd be better. But it wouldn't be drastically different.

I asked it before as well. What is the digital ratio for game purchases on Xbox? On PlayStation it is ~60% IIRC. It can't be 80% on Xbox. And unless it is more than 80%, the difference still wouldn't be meaningful.
 
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SmurfMustard

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Wonder who's alt account this is :messenger_smirking:

What are your thoughts on Nier Replicants sales figures so far?
Wow, That's your go to retort. Not everyone that doesn't agree with you is an alt. But sugar, you do you.

And the way some in here are foaming the sales number must be great. Wonder how many of you will even touch this game.
 
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Hobbygaming

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Not to suggest that this instance is particularly indicative of a trend, but I think it demonstrates the thing I was saying about what's going to happen to any and all Xbox releases outside of GamePass.

Obviously big titles will stand on their own two feet, but for smaller more niche releases... Surely the implicit promise that it may end up on GP down the line is going to hurt sales?
 

dcmk7

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Wow, That's your go to retort. Not everyone that doesn't agree with you is an alt. But sugar, you do you.

And the way some in here are foaming the sales number must be great. Wonder how many of you will even touch this game.
So not here to contribute anything at all then :messenger_grinning_smiling:.

Take care, sugar.
 
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Bernd Lauert

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That'd be better. But it wouldn't be drastically different.

I asked it before as well. What is the digital ratio for game purchases on Xbox? On PlayStation it is ~60% IIRC. It can't be 80% on Xbox. And unless it is more than 80%, the difference still wouldn't be meaningful.
Why not? With the way MS has been pushing Gamepass, it could certainly be.
 

Kerotan

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Who the fuck is going to buy Nier if they have Game Pass? GP users are eating great there is zero need to buy outside of that subscription unless its something like GTA6 or Call of Duty. This is following the exact same path of music and movies/tvs. Why the concern here? The same shit will happen on Playstation when they finally get serious about their game service.

And you all are arguing over retail game sales in 2021 as if they have any relevance at this point. Microsoft is chewing on 22 million users and third parties like SquareEnix are exposing a lot of their games to millions of those users a day. How many copies did Nier sell in the UK? Tens of thousands? :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Sony are sitting on 50M PS Plus subscribers and on top of that first party selling gang busters digitally and at retail. Much healthier environment.
 

Elios83

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It will be interesting to see if the trend continues with much bigger releases like Resident Evil 8.
If that's the case it would mean that not only GP is having a negative influence on full priced sales of games that are available on the service (and that was obvious to everyone but Phil Spencer and his supporters) but that the situation is much worse.
It would mean that Xbox gamers are simply skipping full priced games altogether and they're happy simply waiting for games being added to GP.
That of course means that unless MS steps in and replaces the lost sales with huge bags of money to release such games on GP where Xbox customers will actually play them, the Xbox platform has lost relevance as a way to make money for third party publishers.
It's a situation that can only work until there is someone taking care of the money sinking hole they have created but it's totally precarious.
 

NahaNago

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Like someone mentioned this could work in Microsoft's benefit in the long run if everyone just jumps on gamepass. They increase their subscription numbers and they can buy the use of the game cheap since no one is buying the game on xbox anyways. They win either way. Crappy way to win I feel though.
 
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Feb 15, 2013
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GP users are eating great there is zero need to buy outside of that subscription

This is funny. So the 1% of games on Gamepass should keep every gamer happy as larry? no chance. Hasn't had anything on there that I really want to play. My work is full time so I want to spend the 4-5 hours I get free a week on games I really want to play not willing myself to play through somethimg I was half interested in.

This is why Gamepass is not for most people.
 
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That's debatable. Incomplete data can lead to very wrong results. Sometimes it's better to just say "idk". Now if we had both physical and digital numbers, that'd be way better.
This guy 😂.

Talking about wrong assumptions, yet flat our says Xbox gamers buy more digital games than PS users without a single fact or piece of data. Still waiting for your reply btw.

Oh and I wouldn’t be bragging about not being banned for console warring considering you were banned for pushing false infographs either.