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George RR Martin's latest blog post has broken me.

Dr.Morris79

Member
I can't wait to read that book during my breaks from Star Citizen.
 

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
I bought the books that have been released and got much more than my money's worth out of each of them. Can't ask for much more than that.
There are two ways this can go. He will finish this book, and then his morbidly obese, aging body will give out and the series will never be finished. Or, the second part will happen before he finishes the current book. One of those is the way it's going to go. If by some miracle he finishes both remaining books, I'll buy them, but I'm not counting on that, and not investing any emotion in it either way.
GRRM and I are square. He releasee books, I paid money for those books, I was entertained, he got money. Capitalism works.
 

billyxci

Permabanned.
the books will never be finished.

he is 73 and will die before he can finish them. if we're lucky, which i doubt, then we MIGHT see Winds of Winter but that's as far as it will go. There is absolutely no fucking chance we will get A Dream of Spring from him.

At this point the best hope we have is that someone will come in and finish the books for him. I'd like to think he has most of Winds done after 11 FUCKING YEARS so that shouldn't be much of an issue. If he doesn't release it will he's alive it'll be posthumously. We don't know how much he has planned for A Dream of Spring. For all we know he could have plans for an 8th book (urgh).

I know he doesn't want anyone to finish the books after he dies but once he's dead he will no longer have a say in the matter. Get Brandon Sanderston on the job! He done exactly that for The Wheel of Time after Robert Jordan died. Sanderson shits out books for fun...he recently announced he wrote FIVE books during the pandemic lol. Seriously go look at the books he's wrote.
 
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jufonuk

not tag worthy
Homer Simpson Cartoon GIF


I think the show ended things nicely. Why wouldn’t a character saying they won’t do the thing (all previous work f the series) suddenly do that thing and more. It’s nice they delt with the big bad of the series on a feature length movie episode rather than draw it out for the last season. Also one of the most shrewd characters doing something out of character to get killed makes sense. Why not ? /sarcasm

Also I am not sure what ever the writes and finishes the series with will satisfy anyone.
 
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IDKFA

Gold Member
Wasn't there another book suppose to be released after the Winds of Winter? I wonder when that's coming out lol.

Aye. Dream of Spring is supposed to be the last book. At this rate, George will be pushing 90 when that book comes out and would have been working on the series for over 40 years.

I was 11 when book one came out and could be a grandfather by the time we see Dream of Spring.......fuck.
 

jason10mm

Member
Just get a ghost writer already. There are tons of legit fantasy writers that could do the job so long as you don't apply a woke checklist to the job criteria.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Look after the way the series finale was received, he is not going to release that ending. And lets be honest, that was HIS ending. He told the writers the fate of ALL the characters. The only thing D&D embellished was how they got there after book 5. But ALL of the things in the finale are ALL George's ideas.

- Bran becomes king. No one liked this but this is what the ending of the book is going to be.
- Jon kills Dany. This is also what George told D&D.
- Dany burns down kings landing. Everyone hated this but this is what shes going to do in the books.
- Jaime goes back to Cersei and dies with his hands wrapped around her neck. Again, this is how George planned it.

None of this is made up. The night king stuff, sure. But the finale is all George and he now knows that he fucked up. He cant change it. Hes written five books leading to that ending. So what can he do? Simply never finish the series.
 

Banjo64

Member
He simply can’t finish it. Even if we do get Winds, we’ll never get Dream of Spring.

It’s not a matter of him being a slow writer, he can smash out straight forward histories/linear novels in next to no time.

I thought it was BS originally, but I now believe the theory that there’s simply too many strands to tie up in a satisfactory way in only 2 books.
 

Banjo64

Member
Look after the way the series finale was received, he is not going to release that ending. And lets be honest, that was HIS ending. He told the writers the fate of ALL the characters. The only thing D&D embellished was how they got there after book 5. But ALL of the things in the finale are ALL George's ideas.

- Bran becomes king. No one liked this but this is what the ending of the book is going to be.
- Jon kills Dany. This is also what George told D&D.
- Dany burns down kings landing. Everyone hated this but this is what shes going to do in the books.
- Jaime goes back to Cersei and dies with his hands wrapped around her neck. Again, this is how George planned it.

None of this is made up. The night king stuff, sure. But the finale is all George and he now knows that he fucked up. He cant change it. Hes written five books leading to that ending. So what can he do? Simply never finish the series.
I don’t think anyone hates those plot points, just the way D&D delivered them in such a slapdash way.
 
They should do a GOT Season 8-12 anime to be watched after GOT Season 7. George can write some episodes, and the original cast can do the voice work.
 
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Doom85

Member
Look after the way the series finale was received, he is not going to release that ending. And lets be honest, that was HIS ending. He told the writers the fate of ALL the characters. The only thing D&D embellished was how they got there after book 5. But ALL of the things in the finale are ALL George's ideas.

- Bran becomes king. No one liked this but this is what the ending of the book is going to be.
- Jon kills Dany. This is also what George told D&D.
- Dany burns down kings landing. Everyone hated this but this is what shes going to do in the books.
- Jaime goes back to Cersei and dies with his hands wrapped around her neck. Again, this is how George planned it.

None of this is made up. The night king stuff, sure. But the finale is all George and he now knows that he fucked up. He cant change it. Hes written five books leading to that ending. So what can he do? Simply never finish the series.

Sheet GIF


I had already given up caring anymore, but boy do I need to care even less somehow if this is true.

I mean, points 1 and 2 could work depending on WHY they happen. But then points 3 and 4* just confirm, oh no, the books would have reduced most of the cast to either clowns of their former selves or just pointed a middle finger at them.

*assuming this includes Jamie revealing he didn’t give a fuck about anyone except Cersei. That was the main issue, him killing Cersei could have worked and hell, the common people viewing him as a hero for doing it would have been a satisfying way to 180 him from his Kingslayer image that he was branded with since the beginning. But no, the ending was like, “fuck the 5-season redemption arc!” in a handful of minutes. Christ.
 
Sheet GIF


I had already given up caring anymore, but boy do I need to care even less somehow if this is true.

I mean, points 1 and 2 could work depending on WHY they happen. But then points 3 and 4* just confirm, oh no, the books would have reduced most of the cast to either clowns of their former selves or just pointed a middle finger at them.

*assuming this includes Jamie revealing he didn’t give a fuck about anyone except Cersei. That was the main issue, him killing Cersei could have worked and hell, the common people viewing him as a hero for doing it would have been a satisfying way to 180 him from his Kingslayer image that he was branded with since the beginning. But no, the ending was like, “fuck the 5-season redemption arc!” in a handful of minutes. Christ.
The Queenslayer. It's not even a 180. It's basically exactly what he did the first time too.
 

Doom85

Member
The Queenslayer. It's not even a 180. It's basically exactly what he did the first time too.

Yeah, but I mean not having the public be assholes to the dude who did what needed to be done. That would be the key difference.

But also, Jaime and/or Dany could have been killed off satisfyingly. Sacrificing themselves heroically, or dying tragically, just as long as it was executed well like so many of the deaths in the prior seasons. But instead, the final episodes felt like the show was telling us to go fuck ourselves for ever thinking these characters were good people. Jaime just goes back to being an asshole for who the hell knows why, and Dany just goes evil because, “OMG, evil Targaryen blood!” despite countless instances of her showing contradictory behavior to such a stereotype in prior seasons and it’s bad writing to tease a character becoming more than what assumptions try to define them as and then suddenly going, “nope, you’re just a predictable stereotype after all!”
 

SlimySnake

Member
Sheet GIF


I had already given up caring anymore, but boy do I need to care even less somehow if this is true.

I mean, points 1 and 2 could work depending on WHY they happen. But then points 3 and 4* just confirm, oh no, the books would have reduced most of the cast to either clowns of their former selves or just pointed a middle finger at them.

*assuming this includes Jamie revealing he didn’t give a fuck about anyone except Cersei. That was the main issue, him killing Cersei could have worked and hell, the common people viewing him as a hero for doing it would have been a satisfying way to 180 him from his Kingslayer image that he was branded with since the beginning. But no, the ending was like, “fuck the 5-season redemption arc!” in a handful of minutes. Christ.
People dont change. So if handled well, it COULDve worked. But D&D are terrible storytellers and likely butchered that turn. Just like how they butchered Dany going mad. They framed it as a red wedding twist for shock value when it likely needed to be gradual.

Anyway, I saw this recently and in a weird way, it kind of contexualizes the whole mess of the final season. Maybe this is what George is planning with the whole Bran becoming king plotline.


Or maybe its bs and the only reason its making sense is because just how the choices made by certain characters made no sense whatsoever.
 
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IDKFA

Gold Member
Look after the way the series finale was received, he is not going to release that ending. And lets be honest, that was HIS ending. He told the writers the fate of ALL the characters. The only thing D&D embellished was how they got there after book 5. But ALL of the things in the finale are ALL George's ideas.

- Bran becomes king. No one liked this but this is what the ending of the book is going to be.
- Jon kills Dany. This is also what George told D&D.
- Dany burns down kings landing. Everyone hated this but this is what shes going to do in the books.
- Jaime goes back to Cersei and dies with his hands wrapped around her neck. Again, this is how George planned it.

None of this is made up. The night king stuff, sure. But the finale is all George and he now knows that he fucked up. He cant change it. Hes written five books leading to that ending. So what can he do? Simply never finish the series.

I seriously doubt a lot of that will happen in the books. Reason being because the books and the show went in hugely different directions, plus the show had to warp up the story quickly.

I doubt Danny burns down Kings Landing. I don't doubt Kings Landing will burn, but more likely it'll be Young Griff.

Then there are major characters that are still alive in the books, or who never made an appearance in the show, that will have a major impact on the story.

The others are not going to stop at the North and have their leader (whoever that is. Not the night king who the show invented).

The basic plot points might be correct, but who carries out the actions, why they do it and how will be vastly different.

Also, for some fucked up reason, the Dragon fire became more powerful as the TV series went on. In the books, it acts as you expect dragon fire to act, but it doesn't make stone and wood explode on impact. Whoever had that idea needs to be shot.
 

crumbs

Member
Hard to get excited considering the last good ASOIAF book came out 22 years ago. Funny to think that the first 3 books were released from 1996-2000, but in the next 22+ years, all we got was Crows and Dance.

Even if Winds of Winter came out tomorrow, my expectations would be severely tempered considering the quality of the last 2 books.
 

IDKFA

Gold Member
Hard to get excited considering the last good ASOIAF book came out 22 years ago. Funny to think that the first 3 books were released from 1996-2000, but in the next 22+ years, all we got was Crows and Dance.

Even if Winds of Winter came out tomorrow, my expectations would be severely tempered considering the quality of the last 2 books.

I don't know why, but I've always imagined Feast and Dance as the difficult middle act. It was a mistake split the characters and locations over two books, but Winds would (would have? 😫) brought everyone back into one story.

Also with the amount of action set pieces set up for Winds, I expected this to be the same level of epic as Storm of Swords. I was probably getting my hopes up. Hopes that have now been dashed.

Somebody should start a petition to get George to hand over the writing of Winds and Dream to Joe Abercrombie. At least then it'll be finished.
 

Star-Lord

Gold Member
I’ve stopped caring now, and have lost all interest or hopes in the release of Winds. I’ve come to accept that the dire ending to the show is the only end to the series we’ll ever really know.
 
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Fox Mulder

Member
I have a tinfoil hat theory there is another reason he hasn't finished it;

The show ending is actually the real ending he had in mind, and the reception to it was... lets say, not great.

He is having to re-think and rewrite the pathways for a huge cast of characters towards a different ending than the show has, because he realised fans didn't like it. It's taking a lot of time.

Yeah, the show runners were all about how he told them how to end it as they passed the books. The reaction was one of the worst endings in TV history and would have made him rethink all of his book ending.

This stuff probably isn’t coming out until he’s dead.
 
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Yoboman

Member
He can only blame himself

He was busy counting his money and watching NFL instead of writing while the show was running for 8 YEARS

And winds of winter was supposed to be the last book before he decided it needs two more.

If he stuck to the original plan and released the final book in a timely manner he wouldn't be in a situation where he is demotivated by having fallen behind the show

Or he could have done the second best thing and just written the show for the last few seasons instead of leaving them high and dry
 

ebevan91

Member
I remember starting the books like 9 years ago thinking I'd be done just in time for The Winds of Winter. I've since re-read A Game of Thrones, and like a quarter of A Clash of Kings, and that was at least 6 years ago lmao. "Maybe THIS time TWOW will be out by the time I finish"

Ended up saying fuck it I'll just re-read them when/if he actually announces he's done with the damn thing.
 

MaestroMike

Gold Member
For some reason I'm picturing the op balling his eyes out with tears flowing onto his keyboard causing it to malfunction in a room full of got memorabilia and a large portrait of grrm hanging on the wall behind his computer
 

Pidull

Member
You have to have like no self respect to get to this point with the series. Then again he could be having a cardiac arrest event as I type this post he's so obese.

Dude is going to be forgotten, and so will his series. A part of me wonders if he's got book 6 done and has been working on 7 for years already, and is waiting until his death for it to be released; he's already rich, the money means nothing but his sanity might be worth it.
 
It's a burden on him not just tying everything together but also dealing with the enormous expectations. People will criticize it no matter what. Makes sense that he prefers to do a number of "low stakes" projects instead. Maybe one day when everyone has given up hope and expectations, he will stealth release the last books and be done with it.
 

nocsi

Member
lol the problem is you have to understand George‘s personality type. He’s lazy AF and the type of person that deserves to be yelled at. If it wasn’t for Game of Thrones, he’d die broke. You’re never going to get the book ending because you allowed this guy to continually get distracted. He’s exactly the same personality as my mom. You can’t give this type the freedom to go around and bullshit. They’ll never work ever again
 
I guess the disappointing thing is we are going to be stuck with the shit ending GoT gave us. The books seemed like they were setting up a lot of things the show completely ignored. The whole Maesters plot and the Faceless Men god and the Drowned god. I was interested to see where all that was leading. The dragon horn Euron has. The glass candles. The fact none of that will play out is disappointing to say the least.
 

IDKFA

Gold Member
It's a burden on him not just tying everything together but also dealing with the enormous expectations. People will criticize it no matter what. Makes sense that he prefers to do a number of "low stakes" projects instead. Maybe one day when everyone has given up hope and expectations, he will stealth release the last books and be done with it.

I just want the true story of what happened with this book.

In 2016 he said that he missed a deadline on delivering Winds, which means it must have been close to completion. He then said in the same year that he wouldn't pick up any other writing projects (except Wild Cards editing), until Winds was finished. He then spent years saying how Winds was "months" away.

What happened between 2016 and 2022? Did he scrap the original novel and start from scratch? Seems odd that he can go from being months to completion in 2016, promising as well that Winds will be his main focus, to where we are today where Winds is not complete and not even his main focus???

I used to be believe he'll finish it, but after the latest blog post I'm convinced that he won't finish Winds at all, let alone the actual series.
 

Majukun

Member
what if the tv series ended exactly how he would have ended it, he saw the reaction and now he is terrorised to release it?
 

mid83

Member
I strongly believe that once the show surpassed the books, that was it for the series in terms of Martin ever getting another book out (in the main series). I mean, what's the point, especially given the visceral reaction to the ending of the show (which was his ending apparently). Also, as I've seen discussed in various places, if he couldn't get anything done on Winds during the pandemic (while Sanderson apparently wrote four novels along with all the other shit he normally does), it's completely hopeless.

I do think it would be better for his mental health to just admit the series is over, or at least publicly acknowledge it's not a priority and there is no expectation of any further entries in the main ASOIAF series. Sure, he'll get plenty of shit for it, but he's likely getting shit daily for not have Winds out at this point. At least admitting what we all know publicly can get some of that pressure off and he can focus on whatever projects he actually enjoys.

All of that said, I don't really care. I didn't read the books pre-HBO show, bought them all after season 1 or 2, read Book 1, and then said I'd wait until Winds had a release date to reread book 1 and complete the series. If Winds comes out, sure I'll still do that, but I'm not holding my breath. There are more books I want to read than I'd ever be able to read in 10 lifetimes. There is no reason to worry over authors like Martin or Rothfuss who seem to have little intention to ever complete their series.
 
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IDKFA

Gold Member
I strongly believe that once the show surpassed the books, that was it for the series in terms of Martin ever getting another book out (in the main series). I mean, what's the point, especially given the visceral reaction to the ending of the show (which was his ending apparently). Also, as I've seen discussed in various places, if he couldn't get anything done on Winds during the pandemic (while Sanderson apparently wrote four novels along with all the other shit he normally does), it's completely hopeless.

I do think it would be better for his mental health to just admit the series is over, or at least publicly acknowledge it's not a priority and there is no expectation of any further entries in the main ASOIAF series. Sure, he'll get plenty of shit for it, but he's likely getting shit daily for not have Winds out at this point. At least admitting what we all know publicly can get some of that pressure off and he can focus on whatever projects he actually enjoys.

All of that said, I don't really care. I didn't read the books pre-HBO show, bought them all after season 1 or 2, read Book 1, and then said I'd wait until Winds had a release date to reread book 1 and complete the series. If Winds comes out, sure I'll still do that, but I'm not holding my breath. There are more books I want to read than I'd ever be able to read in 10 lifetimes. There is no reason to worry over authors like Martin or Rothfuss who seem to have little intention to ever complete their series.

If he admits the series is over then they need to pull the books from sale. I know you didn't read all the books, but the books and the TV show went in seriously different paths. There are characters alive in the books that were killed off on the show. Then there are really important characters in the books who never made it into the show and will have a huge impact on their overall story (Lady Stoneheart, Young Griff etc), not to mention the story paths that never made the show, like the Dragon Horn etc.

The books are more complex, have more characters and plot points that the overall plot of ASOIAF is still unknown, regardless of what the TV showed us.
 

Cyberpunkd

Gold Member
In 2016 he said that he missed a deadline on delivering Winds, which means it must have been close to completion.
Not really, if there was no publisher supervision the most common situation was that he didn't write much at all, if anything. It looks like there are no penalties for him for not delivering the book, so why should he rush. It looks like he also likes each new, shiny project he undertakes. Probably part of that is his desire NOT to work on Winds.
 

Shubh_C63

Member
You can't write in a vaccum with only one thing year round. I really do not care when he finishes it as long as it's good.

Working on multiple things that shares the same universe is an amazing way to on the main source in your head. My patience has no limits. We even got Half Life 3 so be patient.
 

mid83

Member
If he admits the series is over then they need to pull the books from sale. I know you didn't read all the books, but the books and the TV show went in seriously different paths. There are characters alive in the books that were killed off on the show. Then there are really important characters in the books who never made it into the show and will have a huge impact on their overall story (Lady Stoneheart, Young Griff etc), not to mention the story paths that never made the show, like the Dragon Horn etc.

The books are more complex, have more characters and plot points that the overall plot of ASOIAF is still unknown, regardless of what the TV showed us.

I understand your point. I haven't read the rest of this series but I have read more than enough to know that just about any book series is going to have to cut a lot of things out for a movie or tv series. I've also heard about the various characters and such that the show never touched on.

At the same time, I don't think it's realistic to expect the books pulled off the shelves if Martin says Winds (or book 7) will never come out. Book series are left unfinished all the times. TV series and planned movie sequels are canceled yet the seasons/movies that were made are still for sale physically and/or digitally.
 
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