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[Dane]

It seems to me like MS fanboys really have a fetish to convince everyone that MS now rules the world and will own next generation. This is despite the fact that many of the features they were loudly boasting about haven't moved the needle one direction in MS favor.

Serious talk here:
Despite how it seems, I want MS to succeed and be competitive. However, I do not want them winning (unless Sony does something crazy stupid). I don't think they make good winners and I really don't want Gamepass to succeed as I think that long term it has the potential to be a net negative on the industry.

Why? I simply do not believe it is sustainable for MS to put $100M+ AAA games Day 1, even at $14.99 a month. Unless Gamepass is a godlike success and has an attach rate that exceeds Nintendo level attachments, then maybe. But even then, there are concerns as shareholders will want to maximize profits. If that fails to happen, I am concerned that the quality of MS AAA games drastically decreasing. Instead of being the outstanding game it is now (Gears 5 was outstanding IMO) suddenly Gears 6 is a 2 hour campaign with a 6 month development time with tons of microtransactions and DLC. That's the future I am afraid Gamepass will lead to.
Other Gamepass concerns that are being ignored:
1. How is the subscription market going to look by the time that many of these $1 trial offers expire? Will the market be able to handle more subscription services by then? We are well in a place where people are subscribed to too many things and many people are looking to cut back. Cord cutting is still a thing and subscription cutting is starting to happen. It's reaching (if it hasn't already reached) saturation. Gamepass does have the advantage of being the only game-centric subscription service, while all others are movies/series focused.

To be clear, there is no question that Gamepass is an outstanding value as I took advantage of the $1 offer and am locked in until Dec. 2021. I went to Costco and bought two year Xbox Live membership cards for around $80 and then converted to Ultimate for $1.

Here is how I would have done Gamepass (criticize it all you want) in a way that would IMO negate the potential negatives I have concerns about:
1. I would lower the price to around $6.99 ($10.99 with Live) a month and/or $59.99 a year ($99.99 with Live).
2. Limit it to games that have been on the market a year or longer.
3. Give a discount to games less than a year old.

That IMO would still offer excellent value and would be the perfect additional gift to offer to a new system. Rip it to shreds if you want.

In short, I just want MS fanboys/shills to STFU. Instead of screaming through the rooftops that they're the greatest ever and going to take over the world. Just for once, be smart and let the results do all the talking. Let's see some actual evidence that MS is changing things. Rest assured that if MS starts cutting into Sony's huge lead they will announce it like crazy, just like they did during the 360 era.

They why do you care what the company is doing even if its making a loss?

>people shilling

No one here keeps shilling as the second comming of god, in fact, in this very place, its the opposite.

 

[shaddam]

Are subsription based gaming good for us, gamers?It's not hard to imagine they will push quantity over quality

 

[Jigsaah]

Who is begging MS to get out of the console business? I'm not seeing many posters make this argument.

Seriously? I mean I don't head a head count, but people have said enough to notice that microsoft should get out of the console business.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I always thought it was the other way around..a Sony land up in this bish

My view is simple: I wish MS people would just shut up and let the results speak for themselves. It's getting old saying that this

Seriously? I mean I don't head a head count, but people have said enough to notice that microsoft should get out of the console business.

Yes, seriously. I might see a few here and there, but they are by no means dominant. Unless they just hang out in the threads I seldom visit (threads about Japanese games).

 

[JohnnyFootball]

They why do you care what the company is doing even if its making a loss?

Because I know that losing money very seldom ends up good for the consumers in the long run.

 

[Jigsaah]

Yes, seriously. I might see a few here and there, but they are by no means dominant. Unless they just hang out in the threads I seldom visit (threads about Japanese games).

Well then, we can both agree that insinuations like that are ridiculous, I think.

 

[oagboghi2]

Well then, we can both agree that insinuations like that are ridiculous, I think.

and so what? How many "Nintendo is doom" comments are on the internet.

If I really like a game over GP I can buy it, either through MS or Steam. It’s not a permanent situation or anything. But after years of buying games only to have them sit in my account unplayed...

Like one game I was eyeing was Wargroove. I didn’t buy it and it is on GP now. It’s an ok game, and $14 on Steam if I wanted to own it, but if it left GP tomorrow I wouldn’t miss it. So yea having access to that game temporarily and 100 others strikes me as a superior situation than spending $10-$15 on a bunch of games many of which sit un played for years.

It’s almost a response to the deluge of games we are flooded with these days.

So the game is worthless.

You guys are just inviting a mobile market ecosystem to grow on MS platform

 

[Little Chicken]

I can't praise Game Pass enough, it's an amazing service. PS Now has some serious catching up to do.

I don't see Nintendo doing the same, perhaps exclusively with their back catalogue, no current titles... which would still be pretty good.

 

[leo-j]

Sorry but I have to disagree. The more subs you have on your service the more money you are going to make because that means more people will be playing your game meaning more potential buyers of your game and more people having access to what ever kind of cash shop is in your game. If you had a choice to put your game on PS Now or Game Pass which one are you going to put your game on? There is a reason why Game Pass is getting all game games.

Game Pass has already taken over. Nothing will ever compete with it.

cool

GTA V
GOD OF WAR and franchise
HZDAWN
UNCHARTED FRANCHISE
And practically every game that mattered in the ps3 era.
Is trumped by the 100 games on game pass?
You really think so?

 

[ManaByte]

cool

GTA V
GOD OF WAR and franchise
HZDAWN
UNCHARTED FRANCHISE
And practically every game that mattered in the ps3 era.
Is trumped by the 100 games on game pass?
You really think so?

Since when is GTA V an exclusive?

 

[leo-j]

Since when is GTA V an exclusive?

since when was gta v on gamepass?

 

[Jigsaah]

and so what? How many "Nintendo is doom" comments are on the internet.

I would say the same thing. One less successful console does not make or break a company. One might say dreamcast is an example saying the opposite, but I'm not sure that's the whole story when it came to dreamcast.

 

[Ruben43cb]

The gamepass service is awesome. Outer worlds, metro exodus, outer wilds, dmc5, witcher 3 I was going to buy and they are all there. That's half the price of my one x if not more.

 

[Vasto]

cool

GTA V
GOD OF WAR and franchise
HZDAWN
UNCHARTED FRANCHISE
And practically every game that mattered in the ps3 era.
Is trumped by the 100 games on game pass?
You really think so?

If that is all I have to look foward to then no thanks. I will stick with Game Pass. Xbox Live, PC Game Pass and Console Game Pass all for 1 price and Project X Cloud on the way. Currently paying $1 a month and signed up for the 5 cents a day when that expires.


100 Games?

This is just the last month.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Well then, we can both agree that insinuations like that are ridiculous, I think.

Well then, we can both agree that insinuations like that are ridiculous, I think.

 

[Ruben43cb]

Logic in a game rental/streaming thread, there is a God. Nice post btw.

There really isn't a business model to support this stuff as it stands currently, I mean there can be rental services (as there has always been) but it will just be an alternative revenue stream and will most probably make up a very small percentage of gaming revenue streams. The major publisher already have their own digital distribution, rental, and streaming channels are in the process of rolling them out. A small alternative revenue stream is possible as its been for 30 year, dominate anything, unlikely as you have mentioned.... even if they were... publishers don't need MS as PC is open, again as you mentioned.

I'm not sure what MS would bring to the table other than their own titles so their competition is against all the other rental/streaming services, I really don't see any of them making any real money.... as it will only bring down chances of positive cash flow.... digital purchases is where the money is... upfront money within 6 months of release.

Yeah but you have to think. If they get 5 million people at a average of 10$ a mth that's 50 million a month. Not just after a game releases but goes to all the games on gamepass monthly. Games like metro exodus that may be overlooked can make $.

And a lot of people pay 12$ a month. And if they expand to 10 million + then a games would maybe make more money being on there or going on there after 6 mths

 

[DanielsM]

Yeah but you have to think. If they get 5 million people at a average of 10$ a mth that's 50 million a month. Not just after a game releases but goes to all the games on gamepass monthly. Games like metro exodus that may be overlooked can make $.

And a lot of people pay 12$ a month. And if they expand to 10 million + then a games would maybe make more money being on there or going on there after 6 mths

Nobody is paying $10 a month, go ask Sony and Microsoft, which is why you see the $59.99-$79.99 PS Now deals and the $1 Game Pass deals. No demand at $10 and probably no real demand at $5 a month, maybe not even demand at sub $2 a month. My guess just two Sony games for 2018 probably generated north of $1 billion i.e. God of War + Spider-man, that's just two games, and now add in the other 800 games, plus added expenses. I'm sure a few pennies can be made off of rentals, but nobody is going to get rich off of it... heck Blockbuster was probably make way more money off it.

Either way its just moving money from one pocket to another i.e. purchases to rentals. The goal of businesses is either to extract more money, become more efficient or both. The only way moving to these new models makes sense is for them to extract more from you.... not less.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

They make money from their game being sold or from micro transactions. How many times have we heard from a dev saying that sales of their game increased drastically by adding it to Game Pass?

Of course you are not excited for Red Box because your Red Box does not have anything worth renting.

I wasn't aware of any saying this.

 

[Tumle]

Agree 1000% MS & Game Pass are killing it and like you said as one of the richest companies in the world MS can sustain the initial losses to eventually dominate and be profitable in this arena of gaming.

I agree that Microsoft is sitting good on this one, but.. I’m pretty sure all the talking points about how Microsoft is to big to loose, was the same talking points that where braught up a long time ago, when Xbox launched..
It really comes down to how fierce the competition is going to get.
But right now, yes they have the advantage, even if Sony already has the streaming solution in place and functional, they still have some legwork to do on there offerings on there subscription.. Sony has quantity but they are lagging a little in quality

 

[FranXico]

How many times have we heard from a dev saying that sales of their game increased drastically by adding it to Game Pass?

Actual sales boost? Only Phil claimed that for sure.

Devs/publishers saying that thanks to GP they could keep some money coming in when the game was past its prime? Probably.

 

[Kagey K]

Actual sales boost? Only Phil claimed that for sure.

Devs/publishers saying that thanks to GP they could keep some money coming in when the game was past its prime? Probably.

Being On Game Pass Quadrupled Our Xbox Sales – Descenders Developer

gamingbolt.com

Matt from NPD also said that early results looked like Gamepass was boosting sales, not sure if he still thinks that.

 

[Kagey K]

I wasn't aware of any saying this.

Try reading the post above this one.

 

[12Dannu123]

I agree that Microsoft is sitting good on this one, but.. I’m pretty sure all the talking points about how Microsoft is to big to loose, was the same talking points that where braught up a long time ago, when Xbox launched..
It really comes down to how fierce the competition is going to get.
But right now, yes they have the advantage, even if Sony already has the streaming solution in place and functional, they still have some legwork to do on there offerings on there subscription.. Sony has quantity but they are lagging a little in quality

I think Sony is lagging massively behind on quality for PSnow, majority of the service is filled with old years old games. First Party games aren't on the service permanently and they don't get Indies or newish games on the service, despite being on Game Pass. What I think Sony really needs to work is the amount they pay devs. They are probably not paying enough so majority of the devs turn to Microsoft since MS is willing to pay more.

 

[The_Mike]

Delete this

 

[Kagey K]

Xmas is all about giving Microsoft cash.

Sure MS didn’t need the cash, but the kids needed the morale boost.

Im really not sure why this offends you,

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

STOP LIKING THINGS I DONT LIKE

 

[Kagey K]

It really does feel like the ones maddest at it, haven’t played it or used it.

 

[Skyerhuist]

How many subscribers does GP need to become sustainable for $10 per month ? At least 10 M ?

 

[CuteFaceJay]

Props to them, It's a nice set up and I hope they keep adding decent games to the list for 2020 and beyond.

How many subscribers does GP need to become sustainable for $10 per month ? At least 10 M ?

Maybe more but that would explain so many £/$ months to keep people hooked to it.

 

[Vasto]

I wasn't aware of any saying this.

Xbox Game Pass: Oxenfree Dev Explains How Microsoft's Subscription Service Helped His Game

During a livestream from PAX East hosted by Microsoft's Xbox Live Director of Programming Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb, we heard more about what the Xbox

twinfinite.net

Being On Game Pass Quadrupled Our Xbox Sales – Descenders Developer

gamingbolt.com

 

[diffusionx]

So the game is worthless.

You guys are just inviting a mobile market ecosystem to grow on MS platform

Supply and demand my dude. It’s not 2003 anymore when maybe 100 games came to PS2 with 5 that everyone “had“ to play and another 10-20 depending on what genre you like. Thousands of games come to Steam every year. By definition the games are going to be worth less.

The mobile game ecosystem is already on console and PC, gacha shit is everywhere. Apple Arcade has actually been great in terms of moving away from that.

 

[diffusionx]

How many subscribers does GP need to become sustainable for $10 per month ? At least 10 M ?

This is one of the things that is really frustrating about our now, digital, tech type of economy - there’s really no way to figure that out, and MS won’t say. We just don’t get the info we need to do that analysis.

Indeed with shit like Uber and all the one word hipster tech companies out there losing billions every year and continuing to exist, I don’t even know what “sustainable” looks like. It’s like we are living in the late 90s tech bubble but everyone is cool with it.

But I will say that while they last it means we get pretty awesome services for a fraction of the cost, whatever it is. MS won’t subsidize GamePass forever so at some point it has to be a strong business, we will see what that looks like.

 

[Animagic]

I’m an outlier but I finally just canceled it. I never really played the games on offer. I will say though why would anyone buy any Xbox game when they are all on gamepass

 

[Mattyp]

Gamepass is the only strategy MS can employ being 3rd place behind PS4 and Switch. Those two are far more successful worldwide and it's no wonder that both also have stellar first-party content, something MS have lacked for going on 5 years now.

Microsoft actually had greater gaming revenue last fiscal year compared to Nintendo so not sure how they're last. In what metrics are we all measuring? Consoles sold? Exclusives?



Another gamepass thread and another round of non stop posting by the same buttblasted poster crying about astroturfing. Shit son, with all this astroturfing you think you would find something better to do with your time then shitting up literally every single xbox gamepass thread in the last 2 years.

Gamepass bitching ✓
Games with live bitching ✓
Xbox hardware is dead ✓
I know better then Microsofts accounts on profitability ✓
My Microsoft phone stop being supported they kill every SINGLE service REEEE ✓ (not yet my mistake)

Prove me wrong and stop taking part in these threads about a service you have no interest in ever using.

 

[Nikana]

Xbox Game Pass: Oxenfree Dev Explains How Microsoft's Subscription Service Helped His Game

During a livestream from PAX East hosted by Microsoft's Xbox Live Director of Programming Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb, we heard more about what the Xbox

twinfinite.net

Being On Game Pass Quadrupled Our Xbox Sales – Descenders Developer

gamingbolt.com

This is forgotten too much. Theres way more actual positive words from devs then there is negative, in fact there's almost no negative but people want to still beat the its not sustainable drum.

 

[Arifvara]

I love Xbox pass! I wish Sony could follow this example and offer a subscription on ps5 for all their ps1,ps2,ps3 and PS4 games . That would be awesome .

 

[pr0cs]

This is forgotten too much

Is it forgotten or creativity left out because it doesn't suit the narrative that the usual suspects need to sell?

 

[oagboghi2]

I don't see how game pass is changing that?

MS is the only first party publisher who embraces those tactics. They have made it clear they prefer MTX and loot boxes over 60 upfront sales, and gamepass only encourages MS and third parties to double down on that.

 

[sainraja]

Why would Microsoft give numbers out? I guess their reasoning is that they want to reach a certain milestone or they are hiding the numbers from competitors, so they could have 50 Million Subs but Sony assume its 5 Million because Sony doesn't know, so Sony are not focused on Subscription Gaming.

Sony doesn't have Microsoft's numbers. Do we know they haven't researched it on their own? Not likely but just wondering. I wouldn't rule this out.

If Game Pass is what the future looks like, and the promise of day 1 titles remains, I'd expect a price increase.

 

[Nikana]

MS is the only first party publisher who embraces those tactics. They have made it clear they prefer MTX and loot boxes over 60 upfront sales, and gamepass only encourages MS and third parties to double down on that.

Killzone SHadowfall
MLB The Show
Driveclub
Uncharted 4

Just a few games that have Micro-transactions from Sony...

 

[sainraja]

Microsoft actually had greater gaming revenue last fiscal year compared to Nintendo so not sure how they're last. In what metrics are we all measuring? Consoles sold? Exclusives?



Another gamepass thread and another round of non stop posting by the same buttblasted poster crying about astroturfing. Shit son, with all this astroturfing you think you would find something better to do with your time then shitting up literally every single xbox gamepass thread in the last 2 years.

Gamepass bitching ✓
Games with live bitching ✓
Xbox hardware is dead ✓
I know better then Microsofts accounts on profitability ✓
My Microsoft phone stop being supported they kill every SINGLE service REEEE ✓ (not yet my mistake)

Prove me wrong and stop taking part in these threads about a service you have no interest in ever using.

Why are you being so defensive?

We all have an interest in gaming & the gaming industry overall so even if there is no interest in said service, why should people not talk about it?

 

[Klayzer]

Why are you being so defensive?

We all have an interest in gaming & the gaming industry overall so even if there is no interest in said service, why should people not talk about it?

He's obviously unaware of being part of the problem. Instead of ignoring the topic, he adds more fuel to it and then pretends to be above the fray.

 

[12Dannu123]

Repeat post.

 

[12Dannu123]

Are subsription based gaming good for us, gamers?It's not hard to imagine they will push quantity over quality

It's good for casual gamers. Hardcore gamers have no say in the market. Younger generations aren't as willing to pay for movies and music and soon enough they won't be willing to pay $60.

He's obviously unaware of being part of the problem. Instead of ignoring the topic, he adds more fuel to it and then pretends to be above the fray.

Because its the industry job to adapt. If companies can't adapt they should rightfully go out of business. It's capitalism. It's likely Nintendo will eventually catchup. Because the industry as a whole is moving towards subscriptions.

After that, its questionable if gaming companies will survive in a subscription gaming environment.

 

[Jigsaah]

You act like what I claim has no basis in reality. First of all thats just false. Secondly you swing like a bitch.

 

[oagboghi2]

It's good for casual gamers. Hardcore gamers have no say in the market. Younger generations aren't as willing to pay for movies and music and soon enough they won't be willing to pay $60.

The PS4 and Switch prove this nonsense wrong

 

[oagboghi2]

Killzone SHadowfall
MLB The Show
Driveclub
Uncharted 4

Just a few games that have Micro-transactions from Sony...

So 4 out of how many dozens of games Sony has published?

How many microtransactions are in God of War, TLOU, Spiderman, Horizon, or Bloodborne?

Now compare that to the big MS franchises. Every one is dripping with mtx.

 

[n0razi]

Nah, I hate the way the Xbox Gamepass app encrypts all the game files; it makes it nearly impossible to use mods or organize directories the way I like. That alone makes me never even consider Xbox on PC vs Steam or Origin.

 

[Nikana]

So 4 out of how many dozens of games Sony has published?

How many microtransactions are in God of War, TLOU, Spiderman, Horizon, or Bloodborne?

Now compare that to the big MS franchises. Every one is dripping with mtx.

I never said they didn't have micro transactions, but to say that M$ is the only one that embraces it is flat out false.

 

[yurinka]

I think PS Now will continue dominating the subscription/streaming market during the next gen. Mostly due to its catalog, way bigger than the one from Game Pass, X Cloud, Stadia (+ potential future ones from Amazon or AAA publishers) and with a ton of classics and PS exclusives that aren't in the other ones.

I think PS5 will also dominate the generation as PS4 did with the current one, this time also playing the BC card to make sure most PS4 users choose PS5 as their next gen console. So Sony 1st party games will continue selling well as they did in PS4, so won't be so desperate to 'give away' their AAA almost for free day 1 to get some attention.

I think Sony will push harder the PS Now catalog (they already confirmed that are working on improving its technology) but with AAA games that already completed their sales lifecycle after several months in the market, sales and discounts.