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Sports Formula 1 Season 2020 |OT| Drive to Survive 2 - who drinks champagne from a shoe?

Business

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New found respect for the guys that resisted the pressure today and didn't put the knee down. Everyone agrees that racism has to end, they were there, they put the t-shirt on, but another thing is having to basically show allegiance to BLM and whatever they stand for, which is not just "end racism".
 

Nicktendo_

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New found respect for the guys that resisted the pressure today and didn't put the knee down. Everyone agrees that racism has to end, they were there, they put the t-shirt on, but another thing is having to basically show allegiance to BLM and whatever they stand for, which is not just "end racism".
Remember their names...
Charles Leclerc
Max Verstappen
Danill Kvyat
Carlos Sainz
Antonio Giovinazzi
Kimi Raikkonen

Fair play to Charles and Max for putting out social media posts explaining their position. They’re getting a lot of hate for essentially not caving to something they don’t feel comfortable doing. Kimi being Kimi, no fucks given. The Iceman.

It was Charles who grabbed the End Racism t-shirt on the podium as well. The mob will still find a way to hate on him.

Great opening race. Insane last few laps. It sets up the season nicely, despite Merc’s dominance. Glad there’s a little distance between HAM and BOT. I think next week we’ll see a different kind of race. Mercedes reliability proves they can’t run away with it if there’s a late safety car. Plenty of opportunity for Ferrari, McLaren and Racing Point to capitalise on the problems of Red Bull and Merc.
 
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xrnzaaas

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I hate the political nonsense they are injecting into the sport.
I just got banned from the F1 subreddit for the following most innocuous comment:

"F1 should be keeping politics out of the sport."

r/formula1 is a crappy place to be right now with half of the posts concerning praising the drivers and teams for BLM support and shitting on those not in line (yes I got perm banned ;)), r/formuladank is a much healthier place to be ;)

Anyway it was a great season opener. I feel like Lewis should've been given a drive through for hitting Alex. Seb with his first sbinalla of the year made me laugh so much. It was amazing that Charles was able to hit p2 with the shitty car they had this weekend. Also congrats to Lando for his first F1 podium.
 
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Breakage

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I'm surprised that all this talk of BLM hasn't triggered the thread's creator again.

Regarding the race, I think Vettel's checked out. The five second penalty at the end for Hamilton was dumb.
 

Lionel Richie

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Regarding the race, I think Vettel's checked out.
Absolutely. Seb checked out when he fucked up in the rain that one race he saw that championship slip away. In the aftermath of it we're seeing just an echo of a once great driver diminishing with each passing race. It broke him.
 
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Breakage

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Absolutely. Seb checked out when he fucked up in the rain that one race he saw that championship slip away. In the aftermath of it we're seeing just an echo of a once great driver diminishing with each passing race. It broke him.
Yeah, it's kind of sad. I think when he joined Ferrari he really thought he was going to be the spiritual successor to Schumacher. I read that Ferrari didn't even attempt to offer him a new deal. It seems they just wanted him gone after this season.
 
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Absolutely. Seb checked out when he fucked up in the rain that one race he saw that championship slip away. In the aftermath of it we're seeing just an echo of a once great driver diminishing with each passing race. It broke him.
I don't buy the story that Vettel was great and Germany 2018 destroyed him as a driver.

For starters I don't think he was ever very great, 4 WDC's with a rocketship, 2 of them won by the skin of his teeth, against a mediocre team mate that still almost got him in 2010 and a dog of a Ferrari. When Ricciardo as a RBR rookie mopped the floor with him in 2014 the 'excuse' you'd hear was Vettel wasn't motivated. The years at Ferrari have been just all around embarrassing.
 

Button

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Enjoyable race, and the kneeling stuff is hopefully now behind us. Overall I'm glad F1 is at least doing something for equality. Although, seeing Aramco layered on top of the rainbow on the McLaren's halo is quite ironic.

Interested to see how people will change their race tactics for next weekend. Thank god f1 is back!
 
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Lionel Richie

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I don't buy the story that Vettel was great and Germany 2018 destroyed him as a driver.

For starters I don't think he was ever very great, 4 WDC's with a rocketship, 2 of them won by the skin of his teeth, against a mediocre team mate that still almost got him in 2010 and a dog of a Ferrari. When Ricciardo as a RBR rookie mopped the floor with him in 2014 the 'excuse' you'd hear was Vettel wasn't motivated. The years at Ferrari have been just all around embarrassing.
Why have them been embarrassing? What sport are you even watching? Mercedes is the most dominant car of all time and Seb single handily gave them a run for it at times. He's one of the greats, that RBR wasn't nearly as overpowered as Mercedes have been. Like not even close. Seb doesn't need to prove anything to anyone and the fact you even question it makes me question your question.
 

Business

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Why have them been embarrassing? What sport are you even watching? Mercedes is the most dominant car of all time and Seb single handily gave them a run for it at times. He's one of the greats, that RBR wasn't nearly as overpowered as Mercedes have been. Like not even close. Seb doesn't need to prove anything to anyone and the fact you even question it makes me question your question.
I don't understand why you have to get defensive an hostile with the 'what sport are you even watching'.

I think Ferrari has been at least as strong as Mercedes both in 2017 and 2018 and if Vettel didn't win it was because his own mistakes, a ridiculous amount of them. The video is only 2018 and 2019, 2020 started with another trademark fuck up and 2017 was probably his best year with a championship winning car but still had the crash in Singapore starting from pole, and off the top of my head when he lost his mind in Baku and rammed Hamilton "he brake tested me!" and again in Mexico "he's backing me into Ricciardo!" moved under braking got a penalty "I have a message for Charlie, fuck off". So yeah it's been embarrassing to watch him screw up weekend after weekend, his best year was when he first arrived at Ferrari, Mercedes was too good, he had old Kimi as his team mate and so had 0 pressure and could fool around doing his best jokes at the pressers, but that's about it.
 
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Lionel Richie

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I don't understand why you have to get defensive an hostile with the 'what sport are you even watching'.

I think Ferrari has been at least as strong as Mercedes both in 2017 and 2018 and if Vettel didn't win it was because his own mistakes, a ridiculous amount of them. The video is only 2018 and 2019, 2020 started with another trademark fuck up and 2017 was probably his best year with a championship winning car but still had the crash in Singapore starting from pole, and off the top of my head when he lost his mind in Baku and rammed Hamilton "he brake tested me!" and again in Mexico "he's backing me into Ricciardo!" moved under braking got a penalty "I have a message for Charlie, fuck off". So yeah it's been embarrassing to watch him screw up weekend after weekend, his best year was when he first arrived at Ferrari, Mercedes was too good, he had old Kimi as his team mate and so had 0 pressure and could fool around doing his best jokes at the pressers, but that's about it.
If you think Ferrari was as strong as Mercedes in 2017 and 2018, I'm sorry brother but then I have no choice but to question what sport you are watching. Vettel made some mistakes, sure, Hamilton did them too, Schumacher did them too, Senna did them too. But he also won 4 titles in a row. You can try to come up with narrative you want, but facts have a hard limit. Push it too far and you're into crazy land and friend if you don't think Seb is a great driver, you're WAY into crazy land.
 
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Business

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If you think Ferrari was as strong as Mercedes in 2017 and 2018, I'm sorry brother but then I have no choice but to question what sport you are watching. Vettel made some mistakes, sure, Hamilton did them too, Schumacher did them too, Senna did them too. But he also won 4 titles in a row. You can try to come up with narrative you want, but facts have a hard limit. Push it too far and you're into crazy land and friend if you don't think Seb is a great driver, you're WAY into crazy land.
Everybody does mistakes so mistakes don’t matter is not a point. Vettel made a lot more mistakes than Hamilton, I think thats an easily point to prove, Schumacher and Senna or any top tier driver never made nearly as many mistakes. These are just facts.

Ferrari being as strong as Mercedes in 17 and 18 is not a very controversial opinion, sure believing the opposite is fine but it’s not any sort of hot take, if you follow the sport you’ll know.

As for Vettel not being a great driver you have to define great driver. Of course he is a great driver all F1 drivers are. If you ask me if he is a top tier driver at the level the greatest names the sport has seen, at the level his 4 WDC would suggest, I think not at all.
 
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hariseldon

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Every time Vettel has gone wheel to wheel with Hamilton he’s come off worse. He makes regular unforced errors you’d expect from a rookie. He got destroyed by Ricciardo and then by Leclerc. He was clearly a fast hotlapper who had a technique suited to Newey’s car but he’s not a racer.
 
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Lionel Richie

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Everybody does mistakes so mistakes don’t matter is not a point. Vettel made a lot more mistakes than Hamilton, I think thats an easily point to prove, Schumacher and Senna or any top tier driver never made nearly as many mistakes. These are just facts.

Ferrari being as strong as Mercedes in 17 and 18 is not a very controversial opinion, sure believing the opposite is fine but it’s not any sort of hot take, if you follow the sport you’ll know.

As for Vettel not being a great driver you have to define great driver. Of course he is a great driver all F1 drivers are. If you ask me if he is a top tier driver at the level the greatest names the sport has seen, at the level his 4 WDC would suggest, I think not at all.
Ferrari cars were never as reliable as Mercedes, not to mention how Ferrari is run by absolute morons. Sure they were comparable on straight lines, but on an actual course the Mercedes have been absolutely superior for years now. It's perfect machine. It never breaks, no issues anywhere, fast as fuck, accelerates like a singularity and the strategy is run by alpha german chads. Ferrari only made it look close because Seb is so good.

You sound like a Hamilton fan. Seb never lost a championship to a clearly inferior teammate. Now THAT is a fact.
 

Fox Mulder

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I’m thankful for Ferrari the last few years. They’ve been the only team this entire era to step up and consistently challenge Mercedes for a title. They likely had to cheat to even do that.

They also provided drama and comedy that Mercedes has lacked since Rosberg retired.
 

Business

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Ferrari cars were never as reliable as Mercedes, not to mention how Ferrari is run by absolute morons. Sure they were comparable on straight lines, but on an actual course the Mercedes have been absolutely superior for years now. It's perfect machine. It never breaks, no issues anywhere, fast as fuck, accelerates like a singularity and the strategy is run by alpha german chads. Ferrari only made it look close because Seb is so good.

You sound like a Hamilton fan. Seb never lost a championship to a clearly inferior teammate. Now THAT is a fact.
LOL @ trying to bait with the fan thing. I'm not a fan of any driver, tho I rate Hamilton much higher than Vettel yes. Hamilton got beaten by Rosberg and that's a fact, but it doesn't make all the other things you say true. I rate higher at least Hamilton, Verstappen, Alonso, also Leclerc and Ricciardo beat him soundly with equal machinery on their rookie year in a top team where he was supposed to be number 1. Throughout his career he beat Mark Webber (barely in 2010), whom I don't rate very highly, and Kimi in his final years (which are sucking), also compare his numbers against Kimi in Ferrari vs Alonso's numbers against Kimi in Ferrari too.

My argument here was Vettel makes a disproportionate amount of mistakes, more than any other top tier driver or multiple world champion in memory, if you want to dispute that with numbers you are welcome, but good luck with that. This fact makes your claim that Seb is driving the wheels of inferior machinery to challenge for titles sound like a total hot take tbh.

Also you claim Ferrari was not as reliable as Mercedes and so implying Vettel lost championships due to reliability. Well let's look at the facts again.

2017:



SIN is the crash at the start, JPN is a DNF due to a mechanical problem, lost the championship by 46 points.

2018:



AUT is Hamilton with a DNF due to a mechanical problem. GER is Vettel's crash on his own, lost the championship by 88 points.
 
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JimiNutz

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Because of Drive to Survive I'm actually following the season this year (I used to watch but haven't followed the sport for around 10 years now).

My girlfriend and I got smashed yesterday for the first race and absolutely loved it. I've done the F1 fantasy league as well and have a lot of my team riding on Red Bull this season.

Do we know what happened to Verstappen's car? I know Albon had his collision with Hamilton which maybe explains why he eventually had to retire but it's a bit worrying that both Red Bull cars had to retire. I'm expecting big things from Red Bull this season as they have two really good young drivers and an apparently beastly power unit from Honda. Not off to a good start though...
 

Business

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Because of Drive to Survive I'm actually following the season this year (I used to watch but haven't followed the sport for around 10 years now).

My girlfriend and I got smashed yesterday for the first race and absolutely loved it. I've done the F1 fantasy league as well and have a lot of my team riding on Red Bull this season.

Do we know what happened to Verstappen's car? I know Albon had his collision with Hamilton which maybe explains why he eventually had to retire but it's a bit worrying that both Red Bull cars had to retire. I'm expecting big things from Red Bull this season as they have two really good young drivers and an apparently beastly power unit from Honda. Not off to a good start though...
"Suspected electrical issue", could be related to a sensor problem because of the kerbs, but maybe they don't even know at this point. Gutted for both Verstappen and Albon, first because Verstappen is the only realistic chance at someone challenging Hamilton for the title (unless Ferrari suddenly wakes up / starts cheating). Also for Albon as he had a shot at the victory or at least a second place podium finish, plus is the second time Hamilton fucks him after Brazil last year, clumsy defending again.
 
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JimiNutz

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"Suspected electrical issue", could be related to a sensor problem because of the kerbs, but maybe they don't even know at this point. Gutted for both Verstappen and Albon, first because Verstappen is the only realistic chance at someone challenging Hamilton for the title (unless Ferrari suddenly wakes up / starts cheating). Also for Albon as he had a shot at the victory or at least a second place podium finish, plus is the second time Hamilton fucks him after Brazil last year, clumsy defending again.
Yeah the kerbs seemed to be causing issues (are they particularly raised on that track?)
Strange if that was the cause of the issue because isn't the Austria track their 'home' circuit? Hopefully it's not an ongoing issue with the car because I want Red Bull to really challenge Mercedes this year and keep it entertaining, especially if Ferrari don't have a good season.

I was gutted for Albon also. Hamilton had a poor race I think. Hopefully both Verstappen and Albon push him this season.
 

Business

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Yeah the kerbs seemed to be causing issues (are they particularly raised on that track?)
Strange if that was the cause of the issue because isn't the Austria track their 'home' circuit? Hopefully it's not an ongoing issue with the car because I want Red Bull to really challenge Mercedes this year and keep it entertaining, especially if Ferrari don't have a good season.

I was gutted for Albon also. Hamilton had a poor race I think. Hopefully both Verstappen and Albon push him this season.
Yeah they have been an ongoing issue, specially at the penultimate turn when they had this yellow bananas in the green area. I'd say these are gone but there's clearly some issues still, Mercedes had problems during the race, McLaren broke aero parts during Free Practice...
 
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Lionel Richie

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My argument here was Vettel makes a disproportionate amount of mistakes, more than any other top tier driver or multiple world champion in memory, if you want to dispute that with numbers you are welcome, but good luck with that. This fact makes your claim that Seb is driving the wheels of inferior machinery to challenge for titles sound like a total hot take tbh.

Also you claim Ferrari was not as reliable as Mercedes and so implying Vettel lost championships due to reliability. Well let's look at the facts again.
Those are not fucking facts, you fucking glanced over the season and forgot to mention how many times the Ferrari cars weren't in top condition. Those are numbers dumped without any context you couldn't fit in a sentence. Are you a zoomer friend? This sounds like how a zoomer would "win" an argument on Twitter.

Besides, it isn't just about finishing the race. Mercedes cars always perform on top conditions and they have a significant advantage in strategy. A fucking DNF isn't the only thing that counts when we're talking about reliability. And yes, Seb took a totally inferior car to a title race he had no part in winning because he was going against the most overpowered car of all time. You can rate Hamilton "higher" than Seb all you want, Seb never had a Rosberg.

And besides, thinking Hamilton is a better driver than Seb is okay. He did win a lot. Thinking Seb isn't one of the greats because he "made mistakes" is fucking asinine. I don't need to dispute you with shit, anyone who follows the sport knows the Ferrari were going against a much stronger opponent and ultimately fell short. If you want to think that's embarrassing, that's on you. It reflects poorly on your understanding of any competitive sport. And to top it off it doesn't erase the 4 championship titles he won with a then unknown car. His greatness doesn't need to be proved, only insane people think it's somehow up for debate.
 

Business

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Those are not fucking facts, you fucking glanced over the season and forgot to mention how many times the Ferrari cars weren't in top condition. Those are numbers dumped without any context you couldn't fit in a sentence. Are you a zoomer friend? This sounds like how a zoomer would "win" an argument on Twitter.

Besides, it isn't just about finishing the race. Mercedes cars always perform on top conditions and they have a significant advantage in strategy. A fucking DNF isn't the only thing that counts when we're talking about reliability. And yes, Seb took a totally inferior car to a title race he had no part in winning because he was going against the most overpowered car of all time. You can rate Hamilton "higher" than Seb all you want, Seb never had a Rosberg.

And besides, thinking Hamilton is a better driver than Seb is okay. He did win a lot. Thinking Seb isn't one of the greats because he "made mistakes" is fucking asinine. I don't need to dispute you with shit, anyone who follows the sport knows the Ferrari were going against a much stronger opponent and ultimately fell short. If you want to think that's embarrassing, that's on you. It reflects poorly on your understanding of any competitive sport. And to top it off it doesn't erase the 4 championship titles he won with a then unknown car. His greatness doesn't need to be proved, only insane people think it's somehow up for debate.
 
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Lionel Richie

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And now a lazy overused reaction gif. Yep, zoomer confirmed. I should have guessed from the "Seb wasn't that good" retarded thing this wouldn't have been a very rewarding conversation, I just couldn't resist the bait. This one is on me friend.
 
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SaturnSaturn

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Hamilton is the biggest fraud ever, try watching an entire race of him onboard and see how often he makes tiny mistakes, he would never win a single race again if he left mercedes, he whines and moans like a little bitch on the radio constantly while writing #blessed #positivity on socials. The most unlikable world champion ever. To even compare him to Schumacher is LAUGHABLE

I honestly rank Massa and Räikkönen above him in terms of skill.
 
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hariseldon

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Criticism is me calling Hamilton a bitch. Saying Vettel (or Hamilton for that matter) isn't one of the all time greats is ignorance.
So personal abuse is criticism and an opinion you disagree with is ignorance? It must be hard then because plenty of people would disagree. I like Vettel as a person, he seems like he’d be good company unlike Hamilton, but is flaws as a driver are clear. Years getting pole and checking out at Red Bull destroyed any racing ability he may have had - he was clearly fast but he was never tested in combat. He then got owned by Ricciardo and ran away, only for the same to happen at Ferrari. Nobody doubts that Ferrari are a shambles but Seb has his own flaws including regularly making mistakes that cost big points. A true great doesn’t do that with such regularity.
 
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hariseldon

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Hamilton is the biggest fraud ever, try watching an entire race of him onboard and see how often he makes tiny mistakes, he would never win a single race again if he left mercedes, he whines and moans like a little bitch on the radio constantly while writing #blessed #positivity on socials. The most unlikable world champion ever. To even compare him to Schumacher is LAUGHABLE

I honestly rank Massa and Räikkönen above him in terms of skill.
While I agree that he’s not likeable, there’s no denying he’s fast. Saying otherwise seems like letting your opinion of the person cloud your judgement of the driver.
 

SaturnSaturn

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While I agree that he’s not likeable, there’s no denying he’s fast. Saying otherwise seems like letting your opinion of the person cloud your judgement of the driver.
Im not denying he is fast, but he is not as good as his race win numbers say, he would be top 10-15 of all time imo
 

Nicktendo_

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I think it's safe to say 50% of the grid is comprised of the best drivers in the world right now.

Schumacher is a 7-time world champion, Hamilton is a 6-time world champion, Vettel is a 4-time world champion. Alonso is a 2-time world champion. I know who I think is the best, I'm sure you all do too. I will say though, that Alonso should have won more titles, but he didn't.

Part of being a champion is being in the position to be scooped up by the best team and working within that team to win. It doesn't matter how much raw speed you have, you have to have the team and the car as well. On paper, Schumacher is the greatest of all-time and Massa will be forgotten to the history books in 40 or 50 years time. Sad for him, but true. You need to do much more than just go fast. Ricciardo destroyed Vettel in 2014, but look at the mess he's in now thanks to Max. Even so, Max and Leclerc could very easily leave F1 without winning the WDC. That's just the way it goes. Comparing drivers in different cars and different eras is fairly pointless. It's taking opportunities and making the most of them that counts.
 
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SaturnSaturn

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Part of being a champion is being in the position to be scooped up by the best team and working within that team to win. It doesn't matter how much raw speed you have, you have to have the team and the car as well. On paper, Schumacher is the greatest of all-time and Massa will be forgotten to the history books in 40 or 50 years time. Sad for him, but true. You need to do much more than just go fast. Ricciardo destroyed Vettel in 2014, but look at the mess he's in now thanks to Max. Even so, Max and Leclerc could very easily leave F1 without winning the WDC. That's just the way it goes. Comparing drivers in different cars and different eras is fairly pointless. It's taking opportunities and making the most of them that counts.
Schumacher made Ferrari into the powerhouse again, the man was amazing at teambuilding, its more then you can say for Hamilton, had Schumacher stayed with Benetton in 96 he would have had 8 WC wins. But no he went to a struggeling Ferrari and built it up with brawn and todt to a great powerhouse, thats makes him better then Hamilton no matter what.
 
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Lionel Richie

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So personal abuse is criticism and an opinion you disagree with is ignorance? It must be hard then because plenty of people would disagree. I like Vettel as a person, he seems like he’d be good company unlike Hamilton, but is flaws as a driver are clear. Years getting pole and checking out at Red Bull destroyed any racing ability he may have had - he was clearly fast but he was never tested in combat. He then got owned by Ricciardo and ran away, only for the same to happen at Ferrari. Nobody doubts that Ferrari are a shambles but Seb has his own flaws including regularly making mistakes that cost big points. A true great doesn’t do that with such regularity.
This isn't up for debate homie. He won 4 world titles. He put the RBR on the map. He split the Brawn cars when that monster had a very overpowered year. He helped Ferrari push Mercedes driving like an absolute lunatic despite his car being inferior and his team being ran by idiots. You can come up with any slightly homoerotic headcanon pieces like the "time he got owned by Ricciardo" as if that means anything. It's fine. Nietzche said there are no facts, only interpretations. We can live in our narrative all we want, but at the end of the day he won big. He won often. He won hard. He's one of the all time greats. If you rank him below Hamilton or Alonso or fucking Prost or whatever that's fine. That's a debate. What's not a debate, like I said, is that Seb is among that group. He is and if you don't like it you can create mazes in your head to justify his exclusions but at the end of the day it's still bullshit and you're lying to yourself.

"Vettel is one of the all time greats" isn't an opinion by the way. "Schumacher is the GOAT" is an opinion. A correct opinion, but an opinion. "Vettel is one of the all time greats" is just how it is. It is what it is. You ARE free to be a truther and deny it. But expect people to call it ignorant because it is.
 
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hariseldon

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I’m glad you saw fit to tell us what is and isn’t acceptable for debate. Truly it is such good luck that I happened to encounter someone incapable of ever being wrong.
 
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Lionel Richie

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I’m glad you saw fit to tell us what is and isn’t acceptable for debate. Truly it is such good luck that I happened to encounter someone incapable of ever being wrong.
A guy that won 4 world championships not being very great isn't a worthy debate, it's a stupid fucking premise. Of course he is very great. You could argue that among the pantheon of great drivers that maybe this or that guy was better, but to argue that a guy that won FUCKING FOUR world championships IN A ROW wasn't THAT GREAT is far into conspiracy theory territory.

And going for a patronizing retort to my dismissal of a illogical conversation being fruitless makes it sound even more moronic.
 

hariseldon

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You’re really behaving in quite a bizarre way being aggressive to anyone who has a different view to you. Is it so hard to debate in an honest and civilised way? Honestly I really am shocked at your behaviour in this thread because I’ve never seen you be such a belligerent bullying arsehole shutting down debate before so I’m really not sure where this is even coming from. I do hope you calm down and engage rationally again instead of shouting down those with whom you disagree.
 
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Business

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A guy that won 4 world championships not being very great isn't a worthy debate, it's a stupid fucking premise. Of course he is very great. You could argue that among the pantheon of great drivers that maybe this or that guy was better, but to argue that a guy that won FUCKING FOUR world championships IN A ROW wasn't THAT GREAT is far into conspiracy theory territory.

And going for a patronizing retort to my dismissal of a illogical conversation being fruitless makes it sound even more moronic.
But Lionel in this midst of your tantrum there‘s important things that’s you are missing. F1 is not an individual sport, the team matters and the car matters more than the driver.

I know you still think the driver can take the team to the top by himself because you posted hilarious gems like "And to top it off it doesn't erase the 4 championship titles he won with a then unknown car." I admit I laughed at the notion Red Bull was an unknown (!?) team in 2010 and Vettel took it to the top because quote again "Seb is so good". You even give value to things like Vettel won "FUCKING FOUR world championships IN A ROW" as if winning in a row is a good sign and don't understand the simple fact that if he wins in a row is more telling about machinery than driver.

The reality of this sport is that when a massively dominant car comes, only the two guys driving that car can win the championship. That is the case for RBR 2010-2013 and Mercedes since then except for 2017 and 2018, where despite the tales from your ass claims that "many times the Ferrari cars weren't in top condition", Ferrari had a car to challenge for the title . At this point, you only have your team mate to beat to be world champion. Vettel had to show he was better than Mark Webber, and he did, but like I said previously I don't (and I don't think many people) rate Webber very highly, he wasn't crap, but not any sort of amazing. Anybody on the grid that could beat Mark Webber, could have been world champion in this period, and thus be one of the greats of the history of the sport in your eyes. The same is true for the Mercedes years I mentioned. If Bottas can beat Hamilton, he is world champion, all the other guys on the grid that beat their team mate, can't win the championship (except we hope RBR has a chance for the sake of excitement).
 
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JimiNutz

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I see that the F1 2020 game has been getting great reviews.

Does anyone here play the series? I may pick it up and give the game a go (although will have to wait until I'm done with Ghost of Tsushima).
 

xrnzaaas

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I play them but I usually wait around 9 months for the game to get a significant price drop. Although I will admit that this year's edition seems to be getting more new content than usual (like the new team management mode, 2 new tracks and split screen). F1 2019 dropped in price even faster than usual so I'm not in any hurry to get the 2020 version.
 
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Nicktendo_

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I see that the F1 2020 game has been getting great reviews.

Does anyone here play the series? I may pick it up and give the game a go (although will have to wait until I'm done with Ghost of Tsushima).
Got it pre-ordered.
F1 2019 was excellent. The game looks and controls beautifully. I've been off the series since around 2010/11 (haven't owned anything outside a Nintendo system), but the series has come on leaps and bounds and feels more realistic than ever. Online is competitive, there are countless events every month and the single player content is meaty as hell. In all honesty, I would've got this game even if they had just updated the drivers and the liveries, but as mentioned above, we're getting new modes and new circuits (Zandvoort and Vietnam). Codemasters absolutely smashing it out of the park.
 
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JimiNutz

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Thanks for the responses.
I've read really good things about the series and Codemasters have always made quality racing games. I think I'll pick this up then, especially as there is split screen MP - will be fun to play with the gf before we watch the races.
 

xrnzaaas

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Some media outlets are reporting that Fernando is coming back after all, I gotta say even if I think it's a shitty decision it'll be nice to have him on the grid after Seb leaves.

 
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Lionel Richie

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But Lionel in this midst of your tantrum there‘s important things that’s you are missing. F1 is not an individual sport, the team matters and the car matters more than the driver.

I know you still think the driver can take the team to the top by himself because you posted hilarious gems like "And to top it off it doesn't erase the 4 championship titles he won with a then unknown car." I admit I laughed at the notion Red Bull was an unknown (!?) team in 2010 and Vettel took it to the top because quote again "Seb is so good". You even give value to things like Vettel won "FUCKING FOUR world championships IN A ROW" as if winning in a row is a good sign and don't understand the simple fact that if he wins in a row is more telling about machinery than driver.

The reality of this sport is that when a massively dominant car comes, only the two guys driving that car can win the championship. That is the case for RBR 2010-2013 and Mercedes since then except for 2017 and 2018, where despite the tales from your ass claims that "many times the Ferrari cars weren't in top condition", Ferrari had a car to challenge for the title . At this point, you only have your team mate to beat to be world champion. Vettel had to show he was better than Mark Webber, and he did, but like I said previously I don't (and I don't think many people) rate Webber very highly, he wasn't crap, but not any sort of amazing. Anybody on the grid that could beat Mark Webber, could have been world champion in this period, and thus be one of the greats of the history of the sport in your eyes. The same is true for the Mercedes years I mentioned. If Bottas can beat Hamilton, he is world champion, all the other guys on the grid that beat their team mate, can't win the championship (except we hope RBR has a chance for the sake of excitement).
I'm not throwing a tantrum, I just have a low threshold of tolerance for stupidness. Arguing that Vettel despite winning four world championships in a row isn't one of the greats is just fucking stupid. It's plain stupid, no other way to call it. Yes F1 is a team sport and yes he wouldn't have won if he didn't have a decent car, but the driver plays a huge part in making that car that great. Your argument here my zoomer friend is that Seb isn't great, the CAR was great. Then that's the case for EVERY DRIVER EVER. You can't have it both ways. If Seb is not great, using your logic no driver has ever been great. You don't win without a great car just as you don't win without a great driver. I don't care which bullshit logic you need to apply to think someone wins FOUR and somehow isn't a great driver, you can put up a desperate hail mary throw like "all he had to do was beat Mark Webber". That will never, EVER trump the fact that he won a lot of races and a lot of championships.

The RBR he drove wasn't as dominant as the Mercedes. It was a really good car, the best of the grid, but it wasn't this unstoppable force of nature. If you disagree, that's fine, I don't care. That's besides the point. Actually, no, scratch that, that is the point. That is a good conversation. Were the RBR better than the current Mercedes? Was Ferrari ever as good as the Mercedes? Is Hamilton better than Seb? By how much? Is Kimi one of the greats?

Now those are all valid topics. "Sebastian Vettel isn't one of the all time greats" is moronic.
 

hariseldon

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I'm not throwing a tantrum, I just have a low threshold of tolerance for stupidness. Arguing that Vettel despite winning four world championships in a row isn't one of the greats is just fucking stupid. It's plain stupid, no other way to call it. Yes F1 is a team sport and yes he wouldn't have won if he didn't have a decent car, but the driver plays a huge part in making that car that great. Your argument here my zoomer friend is that Seb isn't great, the CAR was great. Then that's the case for EVERY DRIVER EVER. You can't have it both ways. If Seb is not great, using your logic no driver has ever been great. You don't win without a great car just as you don't win without a great driver. I don't care which bullshit logic you need to apply to think someone wins FOUR and somehow isn't a great driver, you can put up a desperate hail mary throw like "all he had to do was beat Mark Webber". That will never, EVER trump the fact that he won a lot of races and a lot of championships.

The RBR he drove wasn't as dominant as the Mercedes. It was a really good car, the best of the grid, but it wasn't this unstoppable force of nature. If you disagree, that's fine, I don't care. That's besides the point. Actually, no, scratch that, that is the point. That is a good conversation. Were the RBR better than the current Mercedes? Was Ferrari ever as good as the Mercedes? Is Hamilton better than Seb? By how much? Is Kimi one of the greats?

Now those are all valid topics. "Sebastian Vettel isn't one of the all time greats" is moronic.
Everyone who disagrees with you is stupid. Can you even see how unreasonable you're being? I'd say tantrum is about right. Obviously it's your call if you want to behave that way but you debase yourself with such posts.
 
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Lionel Richie

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Everyone who disagrees with you is stupid. Can you even see how unreasonable you're being? I'd say tantrum is about right. Obviously it's your call if you want to behave that way but you debase yourself with such posts.
I never called either of you stupid. I'm talking with you guys like men and I'm talking about the points you're making, not about you personally. And I'm calling it like I see it. The idea that someone can win 4 world championships and still not be great is IMO stupid. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with me or how I feel about either you or Business Business . I respect you guys just like I respect (mostly) everyone in this forum. I think this idea you guys are presenting is stupid, because it's unfathomable to me how you can not put Seb in the pantheon of greats. The arguments you guys presented ("he got dominated by Ricciardo!" or "all he had to do is beat Mark Webber") does not outweigh what he has accomplished in his career. He's a hall of famer, through and through.
 

Business

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Some media outlets are reporting that Fernando is coming back after all, I gotta say even if I think it's a shitty decision it'll be nice to have him on the grid after Seb leaves.

I feel the same about this. It hurts that the new cars don't come until 2022 now because Fernando has no years to waste and 2021 doesn't look bright for Renault.
 

Nicktendo_

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Some media outlets are reporting that Fernando is coming back after all, I gotta say even if I think it's a shitty decision it'll be nice to have him on the grid after Seb leaves.

So when this inevitably fails for a third time is he going to come back for a third time in McLaren at the age of 45?

"This time guyz!!"
 
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