64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
can you name another PC handheld that's cheaper and better in all other aspects?
Even if we removed the 'PC' label there's no other handheld that can play as many games
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Former Employees Explain Reasons Why Valve Releases Games So Rarely
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Opinion Game Dev
Even if we removed the 'PC' label there's no other handheld that can play as many games
gaming_again
Member
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
I mean by that logic we can say that minorities have 0 interest in anything, not as many minorities are working at high positions in big companies as opposed to whites. It isnt just a videogame thing, pretty much all the biggest CEOs or directors at most companies are white. The most a minority has done is like... maybe become a celebrity under the eye of a record label dominated by white people?
I think there's more of a problem here than just 'lack of interest'
This article is racist and sexist.
If we had a team full of black women no one would complain.
But no, how dare white men exist.
This is why America is absolutely fucked with the parade of mentally ill non binary trans folk and their retarded ideologies.
Diversity is such a red flag for me.
If we had a team full of black women no one would complain.
But no, how dare white men exist.
This is why America is absolutely fucked with the parade of mentally ill non binary trans folk and their retarded ideologies.
Diversity is such a red flag for me.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
güat de fuq is going on?
systemr123
Banned
With statistics like that it’s only fair to say that at least 50% of the employees must be black lesbian women in wheelchairs. Really I hate that woke stuff mentions without logical arguments. Also, people should be hired on skills and merit, and if more than 50% of those people are black or whatever then so be it. Quotas in hiring policies always end up in bad results for the company, no exceptions. I can’t imagine a lot of people from the hood even wanting to be game software developers so there’s also that. It’s like saying, there are way more women gymnastics than men, there must be 50/50 because diversity and inclusion. It’s a non argument and things will only get worse when those people get their way.
Edit: I’m almost 100% sure Asians will be over represented vs population count as they don’t complain about anything but just study, and work hard. Maybe it’s just a difference in culture where they are encouraged to do a good job and be meaningful to society vs the 6/10 is good enough culture.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Thats how sports work. Every team has a budget and different needs pending how good the players are at their position.
The team fills those spots best it can. Makes no difference if it's a white or black guy. And if the sport is heavily white or black, nobody cares.
Even when a team is in rebuild mode or tanking where they are conserving money to rebuild the team properly all in one swoop, they still sign temporary players based on terms and wages to fill a gap. And those stop gap signings again arent based on race or diversity hires.
Funny how in sports everyone guns for the best player they can afford, but in office life it's all about demographic splits and quota rates.
(Edit: One reason why sports is so direct about performance is that you dont have HR departments doing the signings with checkmark boxes to achieve on their annual goals list).
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I'm not the moral police, and I perfectly understand the nature of a corporation(hence no actual comment from me on the actual article), but I'm not going to be some corporate apologist and defend corporations whose sole existence is for growth and profit, and anyone who wants to drag them for it, has my blessing. I don't have a dog in this fight, and I'm not interested in lambasting or praising Valve in their endeavors in this. I want some products from them, but as I said earlier in the thread, they're making profit and being successful, so it's working for them, and that's all I had to say about that.
But you may be responding to the wrong person. I never actually criticised Valve or it's 'nature' or what the article is even about. I merely pointed out the ridiculousness of calling something a 'hit piece' based on two sentences, and quietly thought of the ironic situation of the poster calling it an 'agenda piece'.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
It wasn't just a hit piece because they claimed it was too pale and male, although they did that. It was a hit piece because it was attacking the entire structure of Valve, while (falsely) claiming they don't do anything there. That is what I was explaining.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
I can imagine how the flat structure could lead to cliques forming, with groups of employees trying to influence others - a tyranny of the majority - wielding the practice of stack ranking to punish those the majority are in conflict with. Human nature and all. Lord of the Flies indeed.
This is coming from several ex employees so I'm inclined to give their claims some merit. I am interested in what Gabe has to say about it. Hopefully he responds. I know in the past he has praised their flat structure as a strength in regards to development.
Edit: I just noticed in the email exchange from 2015, Gabe responded "I'm missing how flat structures encourage cliques"
This is coming from several ex employees so I'm inclined to give their claims some merit. I am interested in what Gabe has to say about it. Hopefully he responds. I know in the past he has praised their flat structure as a strength in regards to development.
Edit: I just noticed in the email exchange from 2015, Gabe responded "I'm missing how flat structures encourage cliques"
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FullMetalx117
Member
I can tell you as a south Asian/middle eastern male that growing up parents basically pushed all of us to become doctors or engineers, nothing software related. And as a result, the medical industry is full of of brown people. Like more than half the really smart Asian kids from my high school ended up becoming doctors or something medical related (even the not smart ones). I have 30+ cousins living in North America and not a single one did something software related - plenty of docs/engineers tho.
So I do actually think the lack of interest argument is in play here. Looking back, I really wished parents pushed me into software development, tech is where the real money is (maybe not the stability parents were after). I think many first gen immigrants who ended up becoming successful here will moreso push their kids into software dev so next gen should see better representation.
So I do actually think the lack of interest argument is in play here. Looking back, I really wished parents pushed me into software development, tech is where the real money is (maybe not the stability parents were after). I think many first gen immigrants who ended up becoming successful here will moreso push their kids into software dev so next gen should see better representation.
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Ulysses 31
Member
You never 'explained' anything(at least not in your comment to me), and I wasn't commenting on their corporate decisions.
And this is what I was saying in my initial comment, I couldn't tell if the responses are simply 'Valve defense force' responses, or 'triggered anti-wokeness' to come into a thread defending a corporation with it's decision making based on actual employee responses. Especially from two sentences which the article isn't even based around.
The reactions seem fairly thin skinned either way, but to jump off feeling you have to defend Valve that much, or being triggered by two sentences just seems silly.
It's a simple expose article that reveals some of Valve's corporate structure, involving actual Valve's employee testimonies. Now, if you actually work at or have worked at Valve, you can perhaps offer some valid counter-argument to the article, then yeah okay I'll listen to that. But as it is, your opinion is your opinion and you're entitled to it.
akimbo009
Gold Member
Talent > Diversity.
That's not true. Diverse opinions derived from a myriad of sources is infinitely better than less. I don't always agree with the racial bias for that conclusion but hiring people with a diverse set of backgrounds is a good thing.
And since I live near Valve, and chat with folks from this company - the conclusions are spot on. They got a lot of management problems, diversity is just one.
SeñorOsky305
Banned
I just want left 4 dead 3 
is that too much to ask for 
is that too much to ask for 
Tams
Member
Cheaper? No. But that doesn't change that it does occupy just part of that handheld market. It doesn't fit in small bags or pockets.
And don't forget that on the cheapest Steam Deck that Valve are leveraging their massive income from Steam to almost certainly sell at a loss. Great for consumers (for now), but ultimately I think could damage that market if they keep it up as smaller players won't be able to compete.
Anyway, you didn't address any of my other points.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
If anyone had a more punchable face and demeanor.
akimbo009
Gold Member
And that MS comment is fucking weird... They are a trillion+ company and crushing their revenue lines. They are more than their gaming, and definitely kicking ass with a diverse leadership team to boot.
Rykan
Member
Not really.
There is a really big difference between minorities not being assigned higher positions and minorities not being hired at all. There's simply no widespread amount of tech industry graduates minorities that are currently looking for a job but can't find any. They just aren't there.
.Pennywise
Banned
Oh no! They only have 15% of woman workers!
Quickly! Someone do something to stop this travesty! Surely hiring people based on genre and skin color will save this company that's being the most successful company in the biggest gaming market!
Quickly! Someone do something to stop this travesty! Surely hiring people based on genre and skin color will save this company that's being the most successful company in the biggest gaming market!
akimbo009
Gold Member
You think it's okay to only have 15% at a company when they are a majority of the population? That's certainly a take.
While Valve has success as a marketplace, they haven't successfully launched games consistently for over a decade. So as a "game" company, they aren't that successful and are subsidized by the marketplace. So maybe so different thinking could help here cause defending less women in a company that's below the industry averages AND not being able actually get games out gives a lot of opportunity to criticize Valve.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
there isn't any other handheld on the market as versatile, powerful, and fully featured as the steam deck at the same price. Many other handhelds lack the touchpads which are essential for RTS games and most of them are far more expensive, plus they mostly run windows which is not nearly as optimized for handhelds as steamOS on deck is. Not to mention the modularity of the device, and how much you can customize and upgrade it if you're willing to tinker, not just hardware wise but in software too.
It IS the best PC handheld on the market currently, and it IS impressive that they managed to essentially fit the power of a PS4 Pro into a handheld. It IS impressive that they're managing to make all of Steam's windows games work on Deck via proton. All of this is impressive and that's why the Steam Deck's so damn cool
I'm not addressing your other points either, I'm just here to talk about the Steam Deck
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The Cockatrice
Gold Member
So diverse opinions are better than straight-up skill and talent? Are you a fucking idiot? It's rhetorical.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
they aint mutually exclusive
A Most Virtuous Cat
Banned
"the homogeneity at Valve is particularly striking, with the majority of employees being white and male."
This is our queue to not read any further.
This is our queue to not read any further.
Art The Clown
Banned
The Cockatrice
Gold Member
No skin color, ethnicity, sex, gender should have an advantage. Your cv resume, talent, and experience are the only things that should matter. If minorities apply and are talented, good, but if they're not, they shouldn't be taken into consideration just because they identify as a tree.
Humdinger
Member
I always figured Valve was slow to release games because that's not where the money is. They've found much more lucrative avenues to financial success. They really don't need to create games. It's just not a priority for them, because their big income streams come from elsewhere.
akimbo009
Gold Member
If I was doing forestry I'd care if they identified as a tree. Similarly, I'd want to talk to a black person if in going to represent black people in my game or art, or better yet, have black people represent themselves.
We don't live in a meritocracy, people are always disadvantaged, and having a team of people that do reflect a diverse set of experiences and are talented is absolutely a competitive advantage.
And shit, Seattle is even more diverse than Valve and that's damning. It speaks to a culture that perpetuates a view point. The fact their employee have some recognition in this is good and valid. They got problems, and their 85% white male staffing ain't cutting it.
And don't make this about your precious feelings - it's an article that quotes actual employees discussing why this company is fucking up. Think they'd know better than you
The Cockatrice
Gold Member
Nothing you said has anything to do with Valve or my precious feelings. Don't be an idiot and twist my words. We are not talking about a job representing minorities nor about a job representing black people. Fact is, if the job requires you to know coding, its recommended to hire someone with coding experience over someone who talks to trees. Also if you hire someone who identifies as a tree in your forestry job isntead of a proper engineer that has lumbering experience, you are a complete moron. Now kindly gtfo with your insane rambling.
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Kokoloko85
Member
They rather make money off everyone else now.
Its made them not hungry to make and release games much
Its made them not hungry to make and release games much
Raonak
Banned
Sounds like valve has neither.
akimbo009
Gold Member
I'm in the software development industry. We also know universities have a recruitment bias towards whites so the funnel disproportionately favors more whites. I'm not even sure what you're arguing about, except that you know you're being dishonest. You don't need 85% white people to build software and can very easily have a more diverse population of greater talent and benefit.
Fuz
Banned
That's why they're on the brink of bankruptcy.
iHaunter
Member
Don't want another 343.
Talent > Diversity.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Or maybe they’re just grasping at straws to find problems at Valve.
JLB
Banned
As a non american it is a bit insufferable that lots of them always mixture the racism stuff to everything. If you write about vegetables, write about vegetables. If you write about burgers, write about burgers. If you write about efficiency of a company releasing games, write about that damn thign and stop thinking that everything is connected to everything.
DaGwaphics
Member
I can see where coworkers with the ability to vote on your advancement would be problematic for most people regardless of if they are white, black, or purple. Literally any difference (personality, ideology, religion, attractiveness, almost anything) between a worker and the majority could basically be career ending. The worst of the worst in regards to workplace cliques, since here the clique would have real power. I'd imagine many there are in a permanent state of either trying to make everyone like them, or trying to fly under the radar to avoid being disliked, weird.
Of course, the reports are from former employees, so, you can never rule out the possibility that maybe they have an axe to grind.
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Tams
Member
You're in a thread about Valve as an entire company, not a Steam Deck one.
I hate this, "they print money they don't need to do anything", but while they haven't made any games they are still, by far, the best online store for PC. And it's not like there isn't competition EA, Microsoft and Ubisoft have been at it for more than a decade and Epic is going into 5 years; yet all of them are years behind compared to Steam, not just on the core functionality but the extra community stuff, like Steam Input and Steam Workshop or even something as simple as the community forums.
Steam doesn't print money by existing, it prints money because it's far above the rest.
Shadowstar39
Member
You laugh, but they have been trying since last year. The ADL and SPLC put them on the shit list along with GAB and others because they don't moderate chat and let people put up user reviews and mods that "contribute to white supremacy" :
quick someone cancel valve
They basically want valve to censor and limit free speech like how epic does it with no forums or user reivews, all because of a handful of weirdos.
Yoda
Member
Didn't read the article.
The main reason they don't make games is because there are better ways for them to make money. For example, a change to steam which drives even a microscopic increase in total sales (think maybe better recommendation for a given user, a better store layout, etc...) will out-earn almost any videogame they pump out. Complaining about the employees skin color and gender (kinda racist and sexist no?) isn't going to change their market position.
The main reason they don't make games is because there are better ways for them to make money. For example, a change to steam which drives even a microscopic increase in total sales (think maybe better recommendation for a given user, a better store layout, etc...) will out-earn almost any videogame they pump out. Complaining about the employees skin color and gender (kinda racist and sexist no?) isn't going to change their market position.
MistBreeze
Member
Former? Explain releasing game? Rarely?
Do you see it guys its obvious Half Life 3 ….
Do you see it guys its obvious Half Life 3 ….