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Drama For videographers first and PC gamers second, avoid AMD CPU's and GPU's

rofif

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Really? Something must be bad/marginal. It happens. My last Intel chip used in an HTPC had a bad iGPU that started failing 6 weeks after I bought it. That was a nightmare to troubleshoot and I still have it because the warranty support means no PC until they fucking test the CPU. Assholes. Regardless some defects escape and sometimes you get unlucky. You can't assume that experience defines the brand unless you think 1 data point defines a curve.

My launch 3700x/x570 booted up so fast at launch and still does with the 5900x in it. It is just a sub 200 buck mobo from ASRock. I did have those minor USB issues for a few weeks but the updated Bios fixed that along with adding resizable BAR and they were really minor for me, nothing more than a tiny drop in audio on wireless headphones.
really. That shouldn't be too surprising.
 
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Well I learned harsh lesson by going 3700x and x570 on release....
1Min boot times, compatibility problems with a lot of software and some games, USB problems, weird cpu states, weekly bios updates... I shit you not, it is on F35 bios with many betas on the way.
only now it boots in 30 seconds, about similar as my old 2500k did. Still have problems with keyboard phantom inputs. Razer is so fucking stupid they have no idea how to release anything for Ryzen and it works perfect on Intel.

and the cherry on top? I could just get 10400f and have the same or better game performance for cheaper and on better platform.

OH and I had to get motherboard exchanged week1 as b450 was not enough for 3700x... And only booted sometimes.
it's all more or less ok now but it was miserable experience at times. Never buy new AMD products... Let them get patched first
I ran a 3700x in a budget b350 fine for years. Booted in 5-10 second. Upgraded to a b550 and it's much faster now.
 
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PaintTinJr

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It's old for the "H.265 10-bit 4:2:2" workload.

Intel added HEVC 10-bit 4:2:2 decoding and encoding acceleration in Ice Lake, Tiger Lake, and Rocket Lake Quicksync generation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video

From https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-and-decode-gpu-support-matrix-new
NVIDIA Turing has HEVC 10-bit 4:2:2 decode acceleration.

My video interest only extends to Youtube video encoding and Youtube video ripping. If "H.265 10-bit 4:2:2" is a priority for your use case, buy Intel Rocket Lake.

PS; I have known MainConcept since the Amiga era.
The wiki link you provided confirms that the quality doesn't scale on non-general purpose Intel GPUs, so generations aren't really a thing in the CPU world, as they are general purpose, and even a very old PC would still do any task, just very slow.

Bo's processor is also more a kin to a workstation processor, and AFAIK, the quicksync acceleration is part of the integrated GPUs, which intel's own High-performance desktop PC range - for workstations - don't include. Or have I got that wrong?
 
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Danknugz

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Actually AMD's are the best now when it comes to heat and power consumption. They were notorious a decade ago. On drivers and stuff like that yeah they need to improve.
Right, I haven’t touched amd since 2003 or so and other than Xbox or consoles probably never will again. Not worth the hassle and it seems like those niche problems that can surface with drivers seems to always somehow affect me and I’d rather not deal with the hassle.
 
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Danknugz

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Related: I hate that my GTX 1080 can't decode VP9 in HW, the 1080 ti does but none of the other 10-series cards do. So fucking annoying for playing ultra high bitrate 4K and 8K videos from youtube which are all VP9 as I have to rely on my 3770K which is fine for everything else except this and visiting towns in some AC games.
Hevc and nvenc have been a godsend for me. Does amd have hardware support for h265? Quick google search says no, what a surprise.

Edit: I looked it up and amd does support h265 encoding but benchmarks indicate it’s slower than nvenc

 
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LazyParrot

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You told me
Yes I did.

If you're gonna accuse AMD of and "cutting corners in the manufacturing process" you're gonna have to back it up with something better than "I had this Athlon that ran hot 15 years ago", especially considering that Intel spent a good part of the past decade releasing overpriced quad core CPUs that doubled as space heaters because they tried to save a few bucks by using fucking toothpaste instead of solder.
 
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rofif

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I ran a 3700x in a budget b350 fine for years. Booted in 5-10 second. Upgraded to a b550 and it's much faster now.
we are talking about times without windows fast startup or hybernation. Cold boot.
It's at 30 seconds for me nowadays. was about a minute on release. NVME, everything configured correctly
 
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AMD GPUs run citra like crap on windows. Well anything open gl and the control panel sucks compared to Nvidia. Still i am happy with my old Rx 580.
But as a rule of thumb avoid AMD GPUs unless they are WAY cheaper than the Nvidia alternative.

Felt like adding to the fire here.
And throw in all the CUDA only pro applications.
 
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Danknugz

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Yes I did.

If you're gonna accuse AMD of and "cutting corners in the manufacturing process" you're gonna have to back it up with something better than "I had this Athlon that ran hot 15 years ago", especially considering that Intel spent a good part of the past decade releasing overpriced quad core CPUs that doubled as space heaters because they tried to save a few bucks by using fucking toothpaste instead of solder.
Is that all?
 
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we are talking about times without windows fast startup or hybernation. Cold boot.
It's at 30 seconds for me nowadays. was about a minute on release. NVME, everything configured correctly
Yeah power off and boot. My kid has that mobo now with a 2600 and SATA SSD and his cold boot time is maybe 10-12 seconds
 

LazyParrot

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Is that all?
Look. I know it's not always easy to be reasonable when it comes to stuff like this. I had two Gigabyte board fail over the past decade and have avoided them ever since, even if they got great reviews. It's easy to do when you have a handful of competitors selling nearly identical products that do the same thing.

Here's the thing, though: I have no problem admitting that that's almost certainly unjustified prejudice on my part. On the whole, there is no real evidence that their boards are of a worse quality, or more likely to fail than those of other manufacturers, and I'd be stupid to make claims to the contrary just because I've had two bad experiences.

It's fine if you don't like AMD, even if it's for stupid reasons. You should at least try to admit it, though. Don't make up shit about them cutting corners or whatever without real evidence to back it up.
 

Danknugz

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Look. I know it's not always easy to be reasonable when it comes to stuff like this. I had two Gigabyte board fail over the past decade and have avoided them ever since, even if they got great reviews. It's easy to do when you have a handful of competitors selling nearly identical products that do the same thing.

Here's the thing, though: I have no problem admitting that that's almost certainly unjustified prejudice on my part. On the whole, there is no real evidence that their boards are of a worse quality, or more likely to fail than those of other manufacturers, and I'd be stupid to make claims to the contrary just because I've had two bad experiences.

It's fine if you don't like AMD, even if it's for stupid reasons. You should at least try to admit it, though. Don't make up shit about them cutting corners or whatever without real evidence to back it up.
Fair enough, I will admit I am trigger happy when it comes to AMD. Did you watch the YouTube video I linked however? Clearly less performance for hardware encoding vs nvenc. This is a small feature not all gamers use, but that’s kind of my point, it’s the small things you think won’t matter but can cause you headaches down the road. Or if all you do is just game then maybe you’re fine. It’s a subtle thing but it’s definitely there and it’s not just encoding with AMd, this is just another example of small things they have shown to drop the ball with. Not sure if that qualifies as cutting corners to you but generally that’s what it means.

edit: another example is support for machine learning and AI which nvidia is far ahead, tensorflow, pytorch only support CUDA
 
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Well I learned harsh lesson by going 3700x and x570 on release....
1Min boot times, compatibility problems with a lot of software and some games, USB problems, weird cpu states, weekly bios updates... I shit you not, it is on F35 bios with many betas on the way.
only now it boots in 30 seconds, about similar as my old 2500k did. Still have problems with keyboard phantom inputs. Razer is so fucking stupid they have no idea how to release anything for Ryzen and it works perfect on Intel.

and the cherry on top? I could just get 10400f and have the same or better game performance for cheaper and on better platform.

OH and I had to get motherboard exchanged week1 as b450 was not enough for 3700x... And only booted sometimes.
it's all more or less ok now but it was miserable experience at times. Never buy new AMD products... Let them get patched first
You obviously got a dud, I had a ryzen 7 1700 since launch... It boots as fast as any clean system does with a decent nvme drive (it was top of the line at first...). Why didn't you try to return whatever you figured was the cause? Or at least the CPU/mobo?
 
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LazyParrot

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Not sure if that qualifies as cutting corners to you but generally that’s what it means.
I mean, once you start considering lower performance in a specific task or benchmark as "cutting corners", then you'd also have to accuse Intel of doing the same thing, since AMD beats them in a whole bunch of other use cases.

Things are obviously a bit more clear-cut when it comes to GPUs, but those come with their own set of issues. I use a Nvidia card myself, simply because I regularly use 3D software that requires CUDA. The developer of said software could add support for AMD cards, but they have repeatedly stated that it's not worth the hassle because 99% of 3D artists use Nvidia anyway.

The thing is, they aren't even wrong, and I can't really blame them. Lots of developers take that route, and the result is usually that support and performance for AMD hardware and features is either lackluster or non-existent.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Salalah, Oman
This you? :messenger_open_mouth::messenger_ok:

Nah, that's a potential client, gym owner. This is me:



Hevc and nvenc have been a godsend for me. Does amd have hardware support for h265? Quick google search says no, what a surprise.

Edit: I looked it up and amd does support h265 encoding but benchmarks indicate it’s slower than nvenc


I honestly have no problem with a bit slower encoding, and from MainConcept plugin it's not really slow actually until you wanna fully optimize it to the slowest setting then every second would take 1min making best possible quality and the smallest possible file at constant 100Mbps (I prefer that before it gets crushed by youtube). Balanced looks near identical and pretty fast encoding.

I mean, once you start considering lower performance in a specific task or benchmark as "cutting corners", then you'd also have to accuse Intel of doing the same thing, since AMD beats them in a whole bunch of other use cases.

Things are obviously a bit more clear-cut when it comes to GPUs, but those come with their own set of issues. I use a Nvidia card myself, simply because I regularly use 3D software that requires CUDA. The developer of said software could add support for AMD cards, but they have repeatedly stated that it's not worth the hassle because 99% of 3D artists use Nvidia anyway.

The thing is, they aren't even wrong, and I can't really blame them. Lots of developers take that route, and the result is usually that support and performance for AMD hardware and features is either lackluster or non-existent.

That's part of it. My main problem with Nvidias being small in VRAM, except 3090. 24GB could be an overkill but better than 8-6GB. Would I need that much? Don't know, might start playing around with Unreal Engine one day for architectural purposes.
 
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rofif

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You obviously got a dud, I had a ryzen 7 1700 since launch... It boots as fast as any clean system does with a decent nvme drive (it was top of the line at first...). Why didn't you try to return whatever you figured was the cause? Or at least the CPU/mobo?
I didn't got a dud.
A dud was the b450 i got before that. MSI fucked 3700x support.
X570 is just crap. And is bad when it comes to drivers and software. They just now have loads of defenders because everyone has it.
The state x570 was released at was a nightmare and it's a documented fact.
The platform still causes minor problems to this day. My keyboard has sticky keys, some older games don't like Ryzen, hp G2 vr straight up don't work without some shitery each time you connect it.
I would be happier with 10400f.... And it would perform better in games.

It's all working ok now more or less but it should be that at release. This fucking motherboard was over 200usd, has a bad fan and issues...
 

SantaC

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I didn't got a dud.
A dud was the b450 i got before that. MSI fucked 3700x support.
X570 is just crap. And is bad when it comes to drivers and software. They just now have loads of defenders because everyone has it.
The state x570 was released at was a nightmare and it's a documented fact.
The platform still causes minor problems to this day. My keyboard has sticky keys, some older games don't like Ryzen, hp G2 vr straight up don't work without some shitery each time you connect it.
I would be happier with 10400f.... And it would perform better in games.

It's all working ok now more or less but it should be that at release. This fucking motherboard was over 200usd, has a bad fan and issues...
I boot to windows 10 in like 5 seconds on my B550. Just because you have problems doesnt mean everyone has it.
 
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I didn't got a dud.
A dud was the b450 i got before that. MSI fucked 3700x support.
X570 is just crap. And is bad when it comes to drivers and software. They just now have loads of defenders because everyone has it.
The state x570 was released at was a nightmare and it's a documented fact.
The platform still causes minor problems to this day. My keyboard has sticky keys, some older games don't like Ryzen, hp G2 vr straight up don't work without some shitery each time you connect it.
I would be happier with 10400f.... And it would perform better in games.

It's all working ok now more or less but it should be that at release. This fucking motherboard was over 200usd, has a bad fan and issues...
I can't tell how much of what you say is tech forums drama, I don't have an x570 MB (I hate fans). That sticky keys is the strangest and most unique platform problem I ever heard being blamed on the platform, the boot time is unusual to say the least, etc.

I have a 5800x (the old 1700 was before this) at the moment on an x470 board, it boots in less than 30 seconds (I have not measured, let's just say we probably see the Asus logo about as long as the windows logo).

I will not argue against you preferring the core i5 of that generation with all the problems you have, but I honestly had as much issues with my core duo back in the days, the system was just unstable, even tho I got only the most reputable components for the time. (my i7 2600 was just fine however)... This is seriously frustrating and it could leave a pretty bad taste in the mouth.
 
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Holy shit I'm so happy right now with my purchase.

I got:
Intel i7 11700K (watercooled and not yet overclocked 🤭)
RTX 3080
32GB Ram
1TB NVME SSD

It's only week and a half old now but I've been thoroughly impressed with the performance in basically anything. Have they to have a go at Photoshop but I imagine it's overkill for that and Lightroom 😂😂😂.

Will have a go at video editing in future once I get the software tutorials under my belt. Thanks for the heads up.

And to think I had buyers regret for a similar build that pitched up a week later after my purchase:

Ryzen 9
RTX 3080Ti
Same Ram
Same SSD

Also overkill for 1440p gaming anyways
Yes, you need to research the hardware support for the software you will use 😬.

One other aspect that people don't take into account as a benefit of Intel for artist work is the use of their AI acceleation in Photoshop (don't know about Lightroom).
 
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5 seconds? Cold boot. I am not talking about hibernation or fast startup.
And measure it with a stop watch instead of posting shit
I did it with mine, with no special attention paid to optimizing for boot times (however I do keep a relatively clean system)..

so to get to the login screen it takes 24.40 seconds, of which about 12 are on the bios/uefi logo...

I have a couple of PCIe devices as well, so initializing them may slow it down a bit?

Also, it was pretty similar on my 1700, this kind of cold boot times are normal on decent modern Windows 10 systems.
 
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SantaC

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5 seconds? Cold boot. I am not talking about hibernation or fast startup.
And measure it with a stop watch instead of posting shit
It takes 5-10 sec after bios logo comes on.

look who is talking shit, just because your setup is not working good doesnt mean someone else isnt.
 
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5 seconds? Cold boot. I am not talking about hibernation or fast startup.
And measure it with a stop watch instead of posting shit
I went on to check my HTPC (a Dell 7010 with a third gen core i7 + SATA SSD)... 21.28 seconds, it's even faster!

(the system has nothing to load at boot time, no AV, almost no software of any kind installed on it beyond the emulators/games stores, so it's very lean)

it seems fair that some people's computers boot even faster than mine does... over a minute indicates a serious problem somewhere in your system.
 
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rofif

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It takes 5-10 sec after bios logo comes on.

look who is talking shit, just because your setup is not working good doesnt mean someone else isnt.
5 or 10 seconds? AFTER BIOS LOGO?! Don't make me laugh.
Time from button press to desktop. Cold boot with and without fast startup in windows.
As alabtrosMyster alabtrosMyster says, 25 seconds is more standard for fast boot and that's about what I get closer to 30 without fast boot). I had to wait over a year of uefi updates to achieve that which was norm on on 2500k.
And it's not "your setup is not working good". Wtf are you talking about?! It works perfectly fine. I just say that x570/ryzen platform was super disappointing on release. The released this piece of shit half finished.
What "defect" would my 3700x or x570 need to have to boot longer? think what you even talk about...

I originally got 3700x on release with b450 msi tomahawk. it had shit lite version of uefi and it booted only about 1 out of 10 times. It was a hugely known scandal across many b450 boards but mostly MSI.
That's why fuckers released MAX variants with 32mb bios chip instead of 16mb because they could not fit proper support for zen2 on there... they never fixed old motherboards which they advertised as supporting zen2... only replaced MAX.
And go to pcgamingwiki. Maaaany games usually have a paragraph like "black screen on ryzen, hang ups on ryzen, if you have ryzen cpu, disable multithreading" and so on.
And hp g2 vr or razer peripherals (like huntsman keyboards) are fucked on some zen2 x570 combinations. It's all facts and that's caused by how much different ryzen architecture is to intel.