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Final Fantasy XIII debuts on Xbox Game Pass tomorrow

Rykan

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Come On What GIF by MOODMAN



you just did exactly what you said other people are doing
I did, because FFXV is truly the game that people should be criticizing. FFXV is babies first open world game with a a completely empty open world, the worst combat system in any FF to date and indeed one of the worst combat systems in Action RPGs period. The story is bad and the game runs like crap.


FFXV is nothing more than a response to the popularity of Oblivion/skyrim.
 

Kev Kev

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I did, because FFXV is truly the game that people should be criticizing. FFXV is babies first open world game with a a completely empty open world, the worst combat system in any FF to date and indeed one of the worst combat systems in Action RPGs period. The story is bad and the game runs like crap.


FFXV is nothing more than a response to the popularity of Oblivion/skyrim.
Hypocrite is a word you should familiarize yourself with. It’s meaning, practical use, how to use it in a sentence, you know, that kind of stuff.

Good luck with all that bud
 
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Chukhopops

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after some of you have played XIII now, do you feel your order of favorite FF games is the same or different?

for me its still 6, 9, 7, 12, 8, 7R, 10, 15 and 13

still havent beat 1-5, but i plan to if the pixel remasters come to console. ill probably never play 11 or 14
It’s still bottom tier but I’ve come to appreciate some aspects of XIII, mostly the characters, soundtrack and some parts of the story. So for me it would be something like:

6 > 10 > 7 > 9 > 4 > 8 > 13 > 15 > 12
 

RoboFu

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why is the wording so odd? makes it sound like you couldn't buy it for xbox one or series for years now.
 

Rykan

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Hypocrite is a word you should familiarize yourself with. It’s meaning, practical use, how to use it in a sentence, you know, that kind of stuff.

Good luck with all that bud
I suggest you take your own advice because you don't seem to understand what the word hypocrisy really means.

When I say that I think it's unfair XIII is being criticized as having no merit when I do actually think that it has merit, does not make me a hypocrite when I say XV has no merit. Those are two entirely different opinions on two entirely different subjects.
 
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Kev Kev

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I suggest you take your own advice because you don't seem to understand what the word hypocrisy really means.

When I say that I think it's unfair XIII is being criticized as having no merit when I do actually think that it has merit, does not make me a hypocrite when I say XV has no merit. Those are two entirely different opinions on two entirely different subjects.
 

Kev Kev

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dont lump me in with that idiot. dude has been on GAF for 5 seconds and literally did the exact thing he was accusing other users of, and now is trying to hide behind "lEtS GeT bAcK oN tOpIc" lol.

meanwhile i have actually offered something to the thread with my post asking how people felt about their list of favorite FF has changed since playing XIII
 
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TLZ

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after some of you have played XIII now, do you feel your order of favorite FF games is the same or different?

for me its still 6, 9, 7, 12, 8, 7R, 10, 15 and 13

still havent beat 1-5, but i plan to if the pixel remasters come to console. ill probably never play 11 or 14
If you're not into MMO then don't bother. I tried 14 for hours, and even after leveling up a lot I just didn't care. And uninstalled it obviously.
 
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Irobot82

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I did, because FFXV is truly the game that people should be criticizing. FFXV is babies first open world game with a a completely empty open world, the worst combat system in any FF to date and indeed one of the worst combat systems in Action RPGs period. The story is bad and the game runs like crap.


FFXV is nothing more than a response to the popularity of Oblivion/skyrim.
I suggest you take your own advice because you don't seem to understand what the word hypocrisy really means.

When I say that I think it's unfair XIII is being criticized as having no merit when I do actually think that it has merit, does not make me a hypocrite when I say XV has no merit. Those are two entirely different opinions on two entirely different subjects.
Hypocrite is a word you should familiarize yourself with. It’s meaning, practical use, how to use it in a sentence, you know, that kind of stuff.

Good luck with all that bud

It's ok guys. FF13 and FF15 both suck

It’s still bottom tier but I’ve come to appreciate some aspects of XIII, mostly the characters, soundtrack and some parts of the story. So for me it would be something like:

6 > 10 > 7 > 9 > 4 > 8 > 13 > 15 > 12

This is pretty truthful. Except 8 is better than 7.
 

Fictive

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My order hasn’t changed: 10, 4, and this are all way down the list for me.

Then… nestling in a crevice at an unforeseeable depth is 15.
 
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Rykan

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dont lump me in with that idiot. dude has been on GAF for 5 seconds and literally did the exact thing he was accusing other users of, and now is trying to hide behind "lEtS GeT bAcK oN tOpIc" lol.

meanwhile i have actually offered something to the thread with my post asking how people felt about their list of favorite FF has changed since playing XIII
We can agree with this. I have zero desire to be lumped in with this simpleton. Imagine unironically thinking that having two different opinions on two different subject makes you a hypocrite.
Thank you for your contribution to this thread though, I don't think it would have been able to go on without you.
 
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YukiOnna

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I hope they put up XIII-2 on GamePass so people give that a shot, as well. I really wish that was the main FFXIII game, but at least it still exists. I think that XIII-2 really shows the talent of the Game Design team that led the XIII Trilogy.

Still XIII is a beautiful game and still holds up well today in the visual and music department.
 

Captain Toad

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XIII isn't the best Final Fantasy, but its way better than it gets credit for. The combat is great and it has an amazing OST.

It has its shortcomings. The story is too weird and confusing for its own good and most of the game is way too linear.

But overall, I think the game is pretty decent. FFXIII-2 is a better game.
 

Majukun

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XIII isn't the best Final Fantasy, but its way better than it gets credit for. The combat is great and it has an amazing OST.

It has its shortcomings. The story is too weird and confusing for its own good and most of the game is way too linear.

But overall, I think the game is pretty decent. FFXIII-2 is a better game.
nah, it probably gets TOO much credit.
it's genuinely one of the worst games i have ever played that is actually working as intended (so excluding buggy unfinished messes)

not really sure how one can consider the combat great by any parameter either, so i'm curious..what makes it great exactly?
 

Claus Grimhildyr

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XIII isn't the best Final Fantasy, but its way better than it gets credit for. The combat is great and it has an amazing OST.

It has its shortcomings. The story is too weird and confusing for its own good and most of the game is way too linear.

But overall, I think the game is pretty decent. FFXIII-2 is a better game.

No, the game is rightfully criticized for being a bad game. Combat is mindless until the last 3/4th of the game and only during optional side content unlockable at that point. The entire story is mindless and offers zero challenge.

The story makes zero sense and does a lot of "Tell, don't show". One of the basic writing pitfalls that anyone worth their salt wouldn't fall into.

Its overly linear, literally just static hallways for the vast majority of the game. X had this, but it offered side content earlier and more often to break up that monotony, with a well told story.

13 is a shit game and if you want to play 13-2 or LR, far better games, just watch the cutscenes on Youtube and skip to those games.
 
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DonkeyPunchJr

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nah, it probably gets TOO much credit.
it's genuinely one of the worst games i have ever played that is actually working as intended (so excluding buggy unfinished messes)

not really sure how one can consider the combat great by any parameter either, so i'm curious..what makes it great exactly?
It’s fast-paced, challenging, and rewards you for playing well. Every single role and ability has its uses, even in non-boss battles. Plus the flow of battle is exciting. Bolster your defenses, break the enemy’s defense and combo the shit out of them. Lots of split second decisions whether to keep your combo going or fall back to a defensive/healing paradigm.

I found that WAY more interesting than the traditional turn based FF games, where you just sit there like an idiot picking “attack” from a menu until you win. How anybody can say that FF XIII is mindless while praising FFX’s or FF VII’s shitty boring combat is beyond me.
 
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TheInfamousKira

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It’s fast-paced, challenging, and rewards you for playing well. Every single role and ability has its uses, even in non-boss battles. Plus the flow of battle is exciting. Bolster your defenses, break the enemy’s defense and combo the shit out of them. Lots of split second decisions whether to keep your combo going or fall back to a defensive/healing paradigm.

I found that WAY more interesting than the traditional turn based FF games, where you just sit there like an idiot picking “attack” from a menu until you win. How anybody can say that FF XIII is mindless while praising FFX’s or FF VII’s shitty boring combat is beyond me.

I'm a Final Fantasy stan, so I have to disagree with the last sentence to some degree, but as far as your opinions on XIII go, you have my sword.

There's A LOT of functionality in XIII's combat, and it requires a sense of speed and familiarization with the UI, which adds in a rare example of actual skill and reflex in an RPG battle system. Basically every battle past chapter two has a rhythm, and you're CONSTANTLY at odds with something purposefully implemented in the system. Half one is raising the stagger meter whilst mitigating damage done to your party. Focus on too much healing to cover your ass, the stagger meter goes down. Focus too much on assault, you leave your defenses open. Half two consists of trying to do as much DPS as you can before the stagger resets. It's a very "rising/falling," momentum that keeps you engaged throughout.

This is without factoring in all the neat flourishes, too. The Eidolons, the techniques, the Full ATB skills that are essentially Limit Breaks but they each serve a different purpose and can be overpowered or practically useless depending on when you utilize them. Command canceling, repeat commands, raising stagger with alternating elements, there's just SO MUCH depth to the battle system, to the point where I have a hard time believing anyone who says "It's mindless auto battle!" has actually gotten past the first few chapters.

It's linear, yeah. So was FFX. it's not great, but it is what it is.

The storyline woes are also overblown, if you ask me. I roll my eyes when people say it's convoluted the same way I do when they say the same about Kingdom Hearts. You guys played through the vague, cryptic, out of order, deliberately mind fucking, terribly translated FFVII and you can't understand the story for XIII? Because, what? Proper nouns? I haven't played this game in years, but

Pulse Fal'Cie- God from the planet
Pulse L'Cie- servant from the planet
Sanctum Fal'Cie- God from the moon
Sanctum L'Cie- servant from the moon
Cieth- zombies.

Saying this is confusing is an insult to yourself, not the game.
 
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DonkeyPunchJr

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I'm a Final Fantasy stan, so I have to disagree with the last sentence to some degree, but as far as your opinions on XIII go, you have my sword.

There's A LOT of functionality in XIII's combat, and it requires a sense of speed and familiarization with the UI, which adds in a rare example of actual skill and reflex in an RPG battle system. Basically every battle past chapter two has a rhythm, and you're CONSTANTLY at odds with something purposefully implemented in the system. Half one is raising the stagger meter whilst mitigating damage done to your party. Focus on too much healing to cover your ass, the stagger meter goes down. Focus too much on assault, you leave your defenses open. Half two consists of trying to do as much DPS as you can before the stagger resets. It's a very "rising/falling," momentum that keeps you engaged throughout.

This is without factoring in all the neat flourishes, too. The Eidolons, the techniques, the Full ATB skills that are essentially Limit Breaks but they each serve a different purpose and can be overpowered or practically useless depending on when you utilize them. Command canceling, repeat commands, raising stagger with alternating elements, there's just SO MUCH depth to the battle system, to the point where I have a hard time believing anyone who says "It's mindless auto battle!" has actually gotten past the first few chapters.

It's linear, yeah. So was FFX. it's not great, but it is what it is.

The storyline woes are also overblown, if you ask me. I roll my eyes when people say it's convoluted the same way I do when they say the same about Kingdom Hearts. You guys played through the vague, cryptic, out of order, deliberately mind fucking, terribly translated FFVII and you can't understand the story for XIII? Because, what? Proper nouns? I haven't played this game in years, but

Pulse Fal'Cie- God from the planet
Pulse L'Cie- servant from the planet
Sanctum Fal'Cie- God from the moon
Sanctum L'Cie- servant from the moon
Cieth- zombies.

Saying this is confusing is an insult to yourself, not the game.
I thought the story was pretty great. My problem with it was that so much of it was hidden away in the codex.

For me the main things I disliked were the characters and the insufferable writing. Typical shounen anime trash where there is no subtlety whatsoever. They beat you over the head with everything. E.g. Snow thinks he’s a hero even though he can’t protect the ones he loves most, so they convey that by…. having him literally say “IM THE HERO!!!” in every cutscene. Plus all that anime grunting and sighing.

I think a FF game that combines FF XIII’s combat, FF XII’s quality writing, and FF IX’s like-able characters would be the perfect FF game.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

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I'm a Final Fantasy stan, so I have to disagree with the last sentence to some degree, but as far as your opinions on XIII go, you have my sword.

There's A LOT of functionality in XIII's combat, and it requires a sense of speed and familiarization with the UI, which adds in a rare example of actual skill and reflex in an RPG battle system. Basically every battle past chapter two has a rhythm, and you're CONSTANTLY at odds with something purposefully implemented in the system. Half one is raising the stagger meter whilst mitigating damage done to your party. Focus on too much healing to cover your ass, the stagger meter goes down. Focus too much on assault, you leave your defenses open. Half two consists of trying to do as much DPS as you can before the stagger resets. It's a very "rising/falling," momentum that keeps you engaged throughout.

This is without factoring in all the neat flourishes, too. The Eidolons, the techniques, the Full ATB skills that are essentially Limit Breaks but they each serve a different purpose and can be overpowered or practically useless depending on when you utilize them. Command canceling, repeat commands, raising stagger with alternating elements, there's just SO MUCH depth to the battle system, to the point where I have a hard time believing anyone who says "It's mindless auto battle!" has actually gotten past the first few chapters.

It's linear, yeah. So was FFX. it's not great, but it is what it is.

The storyline woes are also overblown, if you ask me. I roll my eyes when people say it's convoluted the same way I do when they say the same about Kingdom Hearts. You guys played through the vague, cryptic, out of order, deliberately mind fucking, terribly translated FFVII and you can't understand the story for XIII? Because, what? Proper nouns? I haven't played this game in years, but

Pulse Fal'Cie- God from the planet
Pulse L'Cie- servant from the planet
Sanctum Fal'Cie- God from the moon
Sanctum L'Cie- servant from the moon
Cieth- zombies.

Saying this is confusing is an insult to yourself, not the game.

FFVII wasn't that terribly translated. It had a few lines that were still easily readable and clearly were not an issue to follow even for kids.

FF13 purposefully hides important story content behind a codex. FFX and XII at least gives you a vessel so you are told, in-game through dialogue and naturally through the environment as you explore the story of its world and characters. 13 doesn't. 13 can't with how poorly designed its world is. Trying to compare this to Kingdom Hearts, which does follow basic story-telling design and makes perfect sense if you play the game naturally and only really became "confusing" because people skipped entire sequel games, is fucking silly.

Yes, FFX was linear, but it still had a large amount of side content for you to do, routinely. It had puzzles for you to solve, minigames to play, pathways you can diverge for a decent click to get powerful items or useful abilities. It allowed for more customization in how you design and level your character. The Crystarium? Doesn't allow for that. Its linear, like the numerous hallways devoid of exploration or content breaks.

As for the combat, its the biggest shame of the title as I do agree with you that it had so much potential. However, the game was not balanced in terms of its story content and its side content that did give you the opportunity to stretch your legs is near the tail end of the game and really only offers the one thing for you to do.

Even FFI had better design where, while you could "face roll" through most encounters by spamming the confirm buttons, you would see a remarkable increase in efficiency if you did a few seconds of planning your abilities to kill them faster. FF13? Doesn't even do that. You can actively spam the auto battle and the efficiency bonus of planning your moves, at least throughout the entirety of the main story offerings, is virtually nonexistent outside of maybe 1-2 boss battles at the very, very end of the game. And even then its more just switching quickly to another paradigm with little thought.

The meat of what you can get from the combat comes at that 30-40 hour mark when you can finally explore the one open world section that offers the bare bone essentials out of what people expect from Final Fantasy. That is bad game design. There is a reason why Square went so hard out of their way with both sequels to fix these issues and why they are superior titles for it.

I get that FF13 stans are coming out of the wood work these days as its part of the natural cycle now that 15 is out and 16 was announced, but good lord, its almost as insufferable as the delusions pushed by TLOU2 fanboys.
 
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thebigmanjosh

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Square just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase FFXIII for either system, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.

Square, publicly apologize and cancel FFXIII for Game Pass or you can kiss your business goodbye.
 
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Mr.ODST

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Square just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase FFXIII for either system, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.

Square, publicly apologize and cancel FFXIII for Game Pass or you can kiss your business goodbye.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
 
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TheInfamousKira

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FFVII wasn't that terribly translated. It had a few lines that were still easily readable and clearly were not an issue to follow even for kids.

FF13 purposefully hides important story content behind a codex. FFX and XII at least gives you a vessel so you are told, in-game through dialogue and naturally through the environment as you explore the story of its world and characters. 13 doesn't. 13 can't with how poorly designed its world is. Trying to compare this to Kingdom Hearts, which does follow basic story-telling design and makes perfect sense if you play the game naturally and only really became "confusing" because people skipped entire sequel games, is fucking silly.

Yes, FFX was linear, but it still had a large amount of side content for you to do, routinely. It had puzzles for you to solve, minigames to play, pathways you can diverge for a decent click to get powerful items or useful abilities. It allowed for more customization in how you design and level your character. The Crystarium? Doesn't allow for that. Its linear, like the numerous hallways devoid of exploration or content breaks.

As for the combat, its the biggest shame of the title as I do agree with you that it had so much potential. However, the game was not balanced in terms of its story content and its side content that did give you the opportunity to stretch your legs is near the tail end of the game and really only offers the one thing for you to do.

Even FFI had better design where, while you could "face roll" through most encounters by spamming the confirm buttons, you would see a remarkable increase in efficiency if you did a few seconds of planning your abilities to kill them faster. FF13? Doesn't even do that. You can actively spam the auto battle and the efficiency bonus of planning your moves, at least throughout the entirety of the main story offerings, is virtually nonexistent outside of maybe 1-2 boss battles at the very, very end of the game. And even then its more just switching quickly to another paradigm with little thought.

The meat of what you can get from the combat comes at that 30-40 hour mark when you can finally explore the one open world section that offers the bare bone essentials out of what people expect from Final Fantasy. That is bad game design. There is a reason why Square went so hard out of their way with both sequels to fix these issues and why they are superior titles for it.

I get that FF13 stans are coming out of the wood work these days as its part of the natural cycle now that 15 is out and 16 was announced, but good lord, its almost as insufferable as the delusions pushed by TLOU2 fanboys.

I forgot about the limiting on the Crystarium and the lack of side content, I'll give you that. The game does wear you out QUICKLY when the only exploration is to get to the next battle. That *is* less than stellar game design.

But I would argue that the storyline battles DO get a little tougher than you're giving credit for. I may just suck with videogames, it's definitely a possibility, but I remember struggling with, off the top of my head...

Vanille and Sazh segment in the junkyard
Hecatoncheir
Proud Clad
And one of the Barthandelus battles. I forget if it was the first or second, I nailed the last one, though.

But in general, yes, most of the shine and strategy in the battle system comes out in full flavor during the Mark hunting and Adamantoise farming post game. Still think it's moment to moment more engaging in battles than most other FF titles, though.

Storyline, I'm torn, because I get the data log complaint, but at the same time, I kind of get what Square was trying to do. It was an in media res style story, and realistically, characters wouldn't exposit to one another about common elements of their world they grew up knowing about. FFX was similar with it's story telling, but it pulled it off with more grace, because the audience had Tidus in the "fish out of water," role, giving an excuse for characters to explain common knowledge to him, because he wasn't a part of that world. I don't know, story opinions are almost entirely subjective. It wasn't my favorite FF story, but it didn't offend or confuse me.
 
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TheInfamousKira

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I thought the story was pretty great. My problem with it was that so much of it was hidden away in the codex.

For me the main things I disliked were the characters and the insufferable writing. Typical shounen anime trash where there is no subtlety whatsoever. They beat you over the head with everything. E.g. Snow thinks he’s a hero even though he can’t protect the ones he loves most, so they convey that by…. having him literally say “IM THE HERO!!!” in every cutscene. Plus all that anime grunting and sighing.

I think a FF game that combines FF XIII’s combat, FF XII’s quality writing, and FF IX’s like-able characters would be the perfect FF game.

I think XIII and XV both had incredibly cool lore and general plot (including XIII-2 and LR here) but suffered from bad exposition. Like you said, XIII was simultaneously so involved it had a data log, but also treated the player like an idiot by having characters who were codified entirely by one personality trait, that they repeated over and over and over.

I thought the party's dynamic as unwilling partners from different walks of life was SUPER fresh for FF, but that magic and sense of banter only lasted for the Lake Bresha chapter, then everyone was split until chapter nine, and immediately they're all best buds. I would have liked to see that element progress and smooth itself over naturally over the course of the game. XIII felt like a character drama that ironically didn't want to focus on its characters. I love the overall "battle with fate," storyline, and all the world ending, fighting a God classic FF nonsense it eventually builds up to, but

Sixteen year old me was HYPE watching videos of the party in Lake Bresha realizing they were branded, that they could use magic, Lightning punching Snow, Hope freaking out. I wanted that vibe for the whole campaign. But it is what it is.
 
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Bernkastel

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Square just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase FFXIII for either system, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.

Square, publicly apologize and cancel FFXIII for 360 or you can kiss your business goodbye.
 
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Majukun

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It’s fast-paced, challenging, and rewards you for playing well. Every single role and ability has its uses, even in non-boss battles. Plus the flow of battle is exciting. Bolster your defenses, break the enemy’s defense and combo the shit out of them. Lots of split second decisions whether to keep your combo going or fall back to a defensive/healing paradigm.

I found that WAY more interesting than the traditional turn based FF games, where you just sit there like an idiot picking “attack” from a menu until you win. How anybody can say that FF XIII is mindless while praising FFX’s or FF VII’s shitty boring combat is beyond me.
fast paced, yes, and that's kind of the problem since it means that most of the time it pays of to just go auto because...
it's not challenging at all. it has three variant in the entire game.
if the enemy is a big one, spam megic on it until he goes critical and then spam your hardest hitting physical attack
the enemy is a group of small ones? use magic areas of effect
did the game upply buffs/debuffs (usually just bosses), then use a debuffer and then refer to point one or two

in terms of every role having a ourpose...not really.
tanks are mostly useless on late game because of a big flaw in the entire combat system, lack of choice of movement paired with area of effect spells.

basically you can't decide where your units sit while they wait for their turn, but at the same time area of effect spell could hit multiplle of your characters at the same time.
this means that sometimes the tank just go resting RIGHT BESIDE THE MAGE, which means that all his aggro is actually detrimental, because all the magic attacks he is going to sufffer are also hitting the weakest and less tanky part of your team.
it has been more than 10 years at this point since i played the game, and i never saw any solution other than trying to time your attacks so that the simple movment of attacks works as a solution, since , again, in rest mode the characters just slowly retreat to their default position, clamped to gether, waiting to be hit by the next big magic attack

old ff stye might have become trite by this point, but ffx style battles were often little puzzles you had to solve by using your entire arsenal and way above what's present on 13 (and i don't particularly like x for other reasons anyway)..in ff13 you use the same exact tactic from start to finish
 

TheInfamousKira

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fast paced, yes, and that's kind of the problem since it means that most of the time it pays of to just go auto because...
it's not challenging at all. it has three variant in the entire game.
if the enemy is a big one, spam megic on it until he goes critical and then spam your hardest hitting physical attack
the enemy is a group of small ones? use magic areas of effect
did the game upply buffs/debuffs (usually just bosses), then use a debuffer and then refer to point one or two

in terms of every role having a ourpose...not really.
tanks are mostly useless on late game because of a big flaw in the entire combat system, lack of choice of movement paired with area of effect spells.

basically you can't decide where your units sit while they wait for their turn, but at the same time area of effect spell could hit multiplle of your characters at the same time.
this means that sometimes the tank just go resting RIGHT BESIDE THE MAGE, which means that all his aggro is actually detrimental, because all the magic attacks he is going to sufffer are also hitting the weakest and less tanky part of your team.
it has been more than 10 years at this point since i played the game, and i never saw any solution other than trying to time your attacks so that the simple movment of attacks works as a solution, since , again, in rest mode the characters just slowly retreat to their default position, clamped to gether, waiting to be hit by the next big magic attack

old ff stye might have become trite by this point, but ffx style battles were often little puzzles you had to solve by using your entire arsenal and way above what's present on 13 (and i don't particularly like x for other reasons anyway)..in ff13 you use the same exact tactic from start to finish

Your entire party gets a passive bonus to damage reduction for every Sentinel present, this was the game's way of dealing with the issue you just stated. Whether you find it works well or not is up to you, but role bonuses are a very real thing, and provide some of the "under the hood tinkering," strategy this game is otherwise lacking.
 
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Eilonwy

Neo Member
Sep 23, 2021
11
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but there is no way to play this games with japanese audio and english subtitles on Xbox? Only on PC right?
 

Majukun

Member
Jun 19, 2009
12,550
662
1,135
Your entire party gets a passive bonus to damage reduction for every Sentinel present, this was the game's way of dealing with the issue you just stated. Whether you find it works well or not is up to you, but role bonuses are a very real thing, and provide some of the "under the hood tinkering," strategy this game is otherwise lacking.
well if i have to find ways to mitigate damage because my mage dies almost immediately , it's less about me finding if it works well and more about if it works at all.
and actually, if they really thought about it and realised the issue, how about letting the sentinel retreat somewhere that is far from the rest of the team, so that he can do its job instead of the opposite?

also, it's not like you can fill your 3 character team with that many sentinels anyway since you stil need to bring bsses over critical to start doing some actual damage, thus needing a mage.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Jul 13, 2020
1,682
4,085
630
well if i have to find ways to mitigate damage because my mage dies almost immediately , it's less about me finding if it works well and more about if it works at all.
and actually, if they really thought about it and realised the issue, how about letting the sentinel retreat somewhere that is far from the rest of the team, so that he can do its job instead of the opposite?

also, it's not like you can fill your 3 character team with that many sentinels anyway since you stil need to bring bsses over critical to start doing some actual damage, thus needing a mage.

Yeah, I mean, you're preaching to the choir, honestly. I only EVER used Sentinels in big battles where I had a Paradigm set to Tortoise, I think, three sentinels, just to sponge damage for a turn, but taking out 33% of your damage output capability DOES make them very much of a joker card.
 

Karonoth

Member
Dec 9, 2020
494
982
295
fast paced, yes, and that's kind of the problem since it means that most of the time it pays of to just go auto because...
it's not challenging at all. it has three variant in the entire game.
if the enemy is a big one, spam megic on it until he goes critical and then spam your hardest hitting physical attack
the enemy is a group of small ones? use magic areas of effect
did the game upply buffs/debuffs (usually just bosses), then use a debuffer and then refer to point one or two

in terms of every role having a ourpose...not really.
tanks are mostly useless on late game because of a big flaw in the entire combat system, lack of choice of movement paired with area of effect spells.

basically you can't decide where your units sit while they wait for their turn, but at the same time area of effect spell could hit multiplle of your characters at the same time.
this means that sometimes the tank just go resting RIGHT BESIDE THE MAGE, which means that all his aggro is actually detrimental, because all the magic attacks he is going to sufffer are also hitting the weakest and less tanky part of your team.
it has been more than 10 years at this point since i played the game, and i never saw any solution other than trying to time your attacks so that the simple movment of attacks works as a solution, since , again, in rest mode the characters just slowly retreat to their default position, clamped to gether, waiting to be hit by the next big magic attack

old ff stye might have become trite by this point, but ffx style battles were often little puzzles you had to solve by using your entire arsenal and way above what's present on 13 (and i don't particularly like x for other reasons anyway)..in ff13 you use the same exact tactic from start to finish
Tanks should only be used in very specific situations, like right before an aoe you know it's coming (in which case you switch to 3 tanks), or in a group of a tank + 2 healers to heal and recover. For optional endgame bosses it's pretty much a requirement.

It's the same as healers, you should never have a healer in your party until you actually need it, otherwise you're just making the fight longer unnecessarily.

I will agree with you in that the battle system is pretty simple (honestly, it's almost like rock paper scissors, but FFX was already like that) and clearly a step down from previous FF games, but it was still pretty decent (I've actually beaten the game multiple times despite not liking the story that much).