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[Dreams-Visions]

I don't really understand. He couldn't find a way to keep it near the door so he wouldn't forget it, but out of the reach of even the most cunning of 3 year olds? He couldn't put it in a gun holster with a security mechanism? On a coat hanger?

I just don't understand. This reaches cataclysmic levels of stupidity, laziness and carelessness.

 

[Takuan]

A harsh lesson.

 

[commedieu]

Good. How many times did the mistake need to be made before he learned the lesson?

Sad though.

3

 

[Water]

Okay, maybe I have explained my reasoning poorly. I think of all places, guns should absolutely be banned from banks (along with schools and suchlike).

To clarify: you think concealed carry should be prohibited by law inside banks even while it is legal outside a bank? Do you have any rational arguments to support that, or is it more of a feel than think? I think I've made a decent case for the opposite.

I don't agree that guns should have any place in common society outside of people's homes, but clearly you and I will not agree on this aspect so there's probably no point in continuing to discuss it.

I haven't discussed my own general position on concealed carry in public, so you are jumping into assumptions again.

 

[Dram]

Is it wrong for me to think that he may have left the gun out on purpose? I just don't see how he wouldn't put the gun somewhere his daughter couldn't get, after the first time she touched it.

 

[User Name Here]

I don't really understand. He couldn't find a way to keep it near the door so he wouldn't forget it, but out of the reach of even the most cunning of 3 year olds? He couldn't put it in a gun holster with a security mechanism? On a coat hanger?

I just don't understand. This reaches cataclysmic levels of stupidity, laziness and carelessness.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Sounds like he was being really careless.

 

[DR2K]

He didn't think his daughter was strong enough to pull the trigger? Did he gain that knowledge the first 3 times she was playing with the gun?

 

[Mondy]

What a fucking idiot.

 

[Hawkian]

Certainly many people who fought for local and state prohibition laws were females and religious people but from what I've heard the people who pushed for the actual laws that amended our constition were liberals who worried about the immigrant populations in big cities.

Where did you hear this from?

EDIT: in any case that's way off topic and I do agree that the prohibition years prior to the civil war was primarily a conservative movement (although one could certainly argue that the gender equality that seemed to rise was a very liberal thing).

I appreciate you acknowledging how off topic this is, but this might be a good opportunity to revisit your sources of information. The prohibition years prior to the civil war? The prohibition party was founded in 1869. Actually prohibition as amended to the constitution was in the 1920s and 30s. The civil war ended in 1865. I think you may be confused?

 

[n64coder]

To clarify: you think concealed carry should be prohibited by law inside banks even while it is legal outside a bank?

It's private property so they can set whatever rules they want. My employer prohibits weapons on the property, concealed or not.

 

[Magni]

It sucks that she died. And sucks is a massive understatement here, that's just horrible.

But it's good that he was charged. Gun safes should be mandatory for this very reason.

 

[ishibear]

A child lost because their own father didn't consider their safety.

Glad he's been charged.

 

[CREMSteve]

Horrible story. A child shouldn't have to pay for a father's ignorance.

 

[ScOULaris]

I know this guy. He works at the frozen yogurt place right near my house. Holy shit, this is surreal reading this. I barely knew him, but I've gotten froyo there a bunch of times over the last couple of years.

It's an awful tragedy, but given that it has been on the verge of happening several other times I agree with him being charged for negligence. I feel for him and his wife, though.

 

[Earthstrike]

While it's pretty obvious this guy is an idiot, I really don't understand how so many people would ever think about banning guns. It's equally stupid, would never in a million years happen, and sounds eerily like the liberals who pushed for prohibition.

Out of curiosity, did you make this up?

Edit: I really have to refresh threads before I post in them.

 

[GungHo]

Prison time seems unnecessary to me. Unless you guys just want him to be punished more. He was responsible for his own child's accidental death. The dude must be going over that mistake 100x every day. The very thought of putting myself in his shoes makes me shiver. I doubt he needs rehabilitation. He knows exactly what he did wrong.

I want him to be punished more. I want other people to see him be punished more. I want people to understand that when you are an idiot with firearms that not only do you need to face the horrible consequences of killing another human being, possibly a member of your own family, you will also face the horrible consequences of losing your freedom, becoming a felon, and losing all access to firearms for the rest of your life.

Edit: to clarify, I think daughter shoots herself, dad is arrested -- under questioning, dad mentions that daughter had twice previously acquired gun, but didn't discharge it, because, he assumed, she wasn't strong enough.

He's not just a dumbass, he's a deliberate dumbass.

 

[RionaaM]

This was negligence without intent to harm and is the very definition of the word "accident". I quote:

"1a: an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance. 2a: an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance"

This was kind of what I was saying.

Prisons can protect society from dangerous people and possibly rehabilitate them. You're suggesting we also use prison as a means to satisfy public outrage in this case. That doesn't seem exactly ethical to me considering the circumstances. Then again, maybe society isn't as ethical as we should be.

He let his 3 year old daughter play with his gun three times, and it was loaded and without a safe in at least one of them. If that's not being a dangerous person, then I don't know what is.

And that's no accident. That's criminal negligence.

 

[Cat Party]

Prison time seems unnecessary to me. Unless you guys just want him to be punished more. He was responsible for his own child's accidental death. The dude must be going over that mistake 100x every day. The very thought of putting myself in his shoes makes me shiver. I doubt he needs rehabilitation. He knows exactly what he did wrong.

Feeling bad doesn't relieve you of the consequences. Fuck this guy.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I want him to be punished more.

Same here. The only satisfying punishment would be to lock him in a concrete cell 24 hours a day with just a picture of his daughter built into the wall (behind plexiglass so he can destroy it). Every couple of months, replace it while he sleeps with a more macabre version of the photo. Start with small changes (sallower skin, dark circles around eyes) then as years pass, make it worse (no pupils, sharpened teeth, tears of blood).

Then, one day, just remove the photo entirely.

 

[ScOULaris]

Same here. The only satisfying punishment would be to lock him in a concrete cell 24 hours a day with just a picture of his daughter built into the wall (behind plexiglass so he can destroy it). Every couple of months, replace it while he sleeps with a more macabre version of the photo. Start with small changes (sallower skin, dark circles around eyes) then as years pass, make it worse (no pupils, sharpened teeth, tears of blood).

Then, one day, just remove the photo entirely.

Damn, son.

 

[$200]

It says a lot if a parent buys their toddler toy guns. Then you are setting them up to get hurt because then they can't differentiate between the toy gun and a real gun. Stick to teddy bears and blocks and parent better. End of story.

You forgot to blame video games too. Kids can't tell the difference between real life and gaming after hours of COD.

 

[massoluk]

Same here. The only satisfying punishment would be to lock him in a concrete cell 24 hours a day with just a picture of his daughter built into the wall (behind plexiglass so he can destroy it). Every couple of months, replace it while he sleeps with a more macabre version of the photo. Start with small changes (sallower skin, dark circles around eyes) then as years pass, make it worse (no pupils, sharpened teeth, tears of blood).

Then, one day, just remove the photo entirely.

Holy fuck, dude.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Same here. The only satisfying punishment would be to lock him in a concrete cell 24 hours a day with just a picture of his daughter built into the wall (behind plexiglass so he can destroy it). Every couple of months, replace it while he sleeps with a more macabre version of the photo. Start with small changes (sallower skin, dark circles around eyes) then as years pass, make it worse (no pupils, sharpened teeth, tears of blood).

Then, one day, just remove the photo entirely.

That's torture if I ever heard it. Dayum....

 

[Tangeroo]

Same here. The only satisfying punishment would be to lock him in a concrete cell 24 hours a day with just a picture of his daughter built into the wall (behind plexiglass so he can destroy it). Every couple of months, replace it while he sleeps with a more macabre version of the photo. Start with small changes (sallower skin, dark circles around eyes) then as years pass, make it worse (no pupils, sharpened teeth, tears of blood).

Then, one day, just remove the photo entirely.

 

[jaxword]

Huh, dark. Was that what got Spring-Loaded vanished?

 

[Pelydr]

That's torture if I ever heard it. Dayum....

You are a bizarre person. You value your gun more than anything. The fact that you hold the second amendment special really does make you a sociopath. Please do the world a favor and don't have kids.

 

[The Cowboy]

You are a bizarre person. You value your gun more than anything. The fact that you hold the second amendment special really does make you a sociopath. Please do the world a favor and don't have kids.

Did you quote the wrong post?, for the life of me I can't make sense of your post when using the post you quoted - it doesn't even fit with it as sarcasm..

 

[sonicmj1]

Sorry, I was thinking in context of someone not being discovered that they left the gun out until the child fired a fatal shot due to negligence. By all means if the authorities are made aware that a gun has been left out like that and a child was playing with it then I feel it should be a crime and the person arrested and just about everything I advocated before should occur.

Now if shit like home inspections and such are advocated I'd feel that's going too far but just saying "Listen, if you own a gun or multiple guns you have a legal obligation to simply lock your shit up. And if you don't you are responsible if your child gains access." So that gives people the freedom to own their guns. And to give far more thought into the storage of their self0defense firearms because it's THEIR ass if their kid gets their hands on it.

In NY the law is if you live in a home w/ a convicted felon or someone w/ known mental illness you have a legal obligation to secure your firearms. I wouldn't have an issue with that extended to cover children. Doesn't infringe on my right to OWN my guns. Just means I need to be responsible and accountable. I don't oppose that.

I think gun ownership can be permitted, as long as measures are taken to make sure it's done in a responsible and accountable way. So I'm not sure why we shouldn't mandate that ALL guns be either safely locked up or on the owner's person at all times, or why we shouldn't mandate that ALL gun owners have to prove a basic knowledge of firearms safety and storage. I don't think that's a particularly huge burden for something so dangerous, and the only argument I could see against it is the paranoid fear of the government having a registry of which people have passed firearms tests.

 

[GreatestHits]

Responsible gun owner? I only saw my dad's guns because of Hurricane Sandy, and I was 23 at the time.

In 23 years I saw them once. In 3 years, she had 3 reported incidents involving the weapon.



Really? Something unfortunate happened and you're hoping a man dies for it.

The people on GAF man..i just can't

I wouldn't call this bad fortune. It's death due to negligence. On top of that.... I really question why he felt the need to have his gun lying around daily and then carry it to his froyo job every day.... I have no proof but I suspect his whole mindset is at fault. There are a million ways to argue the need for it and I don't buy any of it

And he should have lost his firearm privileges after the first incident

Yes. At the very least suspended and have to take a fucking class

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I think gun ownership can be permitted, as long as measures are taken to make sure it's done in a responsible and accountable way. So I'm not sure why we shouldn't mandate that ALL guns be either safely locked up or on the owner's person at all times, or why we shouldn't mandate that ALL gun owners have to prove a basic knowledge of firearms safety and storage. I don't think that's a particularly huge burden for something so dangerous, and the only argument I could see against it is the paranoid fear of the government having a registry of which people have passed firearms tests.

I generally agree. There will be a few caveats obviously but generally I agree. I think biometric safes are the way to go. Secure storage. Quick access.

You don't even need a registry to implement it. Just offer a tax break for gun safes. Let that soak in for a few years then take another step. As long as the focus is on getting gun safes in as many American homes as possible and not arbitrary bans on pistol grip rifles then I'd argue it'd find less resistance.

You are a bizarre person. You value your gun more than anything. The fact that you hold the second amendment special really does make you a sociopath.

*sigh*. Dude, you don't know the first thing about me. But you want to make an ad hominem about another human being on the internet because they express views that you disagree with? What did I say in this thread that you disagree with? That I believe guns should be locked up? Especially when there are young children in the home? Or that parents of children that negligently discharge their firearms should be held criminally responsible for that happening in the first place?

Did you just see "Mammoth Jones" + gun related thread and had a snap emotional reaction? Which could be understandable, but not exactly conductive to civil discussion/debate. To me regarding the topic of this thread there isn't much to debate: Parents/guardians that own firearms should have a legal obligation to lock their shit up/secure their firearms. If you disagree with that, please state why. But just attacking me is silly.

Please do the world a favor and don't have kids.

Really? Seriously? Because you're particularly qualified to dictate who should breed and who shouldn't? Considering my wife and I are trying to have our first child and she miscarried a month ago I'm just gonna go ahead and peace out of this thread.

 

[boiled goose]

Victim of pro gun propaganda.
The ignorant and stupid are vulnerable to it.