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[activatethesmile]

I only learned Troy Baker is a part of this game just now.

His work is usually good, but a part of me can't help but to think him again?

 

[CloudWolf]

Wasn't Skyfall's villain bi? I remember him having a girlfriend.

Silva's sexual orientation was intentionally kept vague. We don't know whether he was gay, bi or straight. That one scene isn't necessarily proof of him being gay or even straight, since I know a lot of straight guys who sometimes as a joke use flirtatious banter between friends.

 

[Jack Scofield]

Wait, now can we complain about the lack of gay representation in video games? We need something new to complain about.

 

[nded]

They should take Patton Oswalt up on his offer and cast him as the protagonist's gay best friend who bucks Hollywood clichés by being really dumb and unhelpful.

 

[ButchCat]

Feminists on one side and now this? Give me a break. Say that he was gay,how exactly is this portrayel perceived as ill to the LGBT community?

 

[SketchTheArtist]

Grakl called it.

Here it is again in case you missed it.

Where has it been confirmed that Jeffrey Yohalem is writing Far Cry 4? I know he did 3, but I figure he would have been busy writing Child of Light during the production of Far Cry 4 and I can't find his name attached to the project anywhere.

Yohalem wrote the screenplay for FC3, Lucien Soulban wrote FC3's Story Mission Design, he wrote FC3 - Blood Dragon and is writing FC4. Just checked his Linkedin profile.

 

[originalself]

I felt like the character put out more of a Vladimir Putin vibe than anything else.

 

[Authority]

Wait, now can we complain about the lack of gay representation in video games? We need something new to complain about.

I find it hard to read posts like this and knowing you can still post. No wonder the gaming culture used to have such a bad rep and posts like this are a reminder.

 

[nded]

I find it hard to read posts like this and knowing you can still post. No wonder the gaming culture used to have such a bad rep and posts like this are a reminder.

Lighten up, guy.

 

[SketchTheArtist]

I find it hard to read posts like this and knowing you can still post. No wonder the gaming culture used to have such a bad rep and posts like this are a reminder.

How about having more fate in people rather than put words in their mouths? Isn't that what this whole debacle is about? Cheer up sir.

 

[Windom Earle]

I only learned Troy Baker is a part of this game just now.

His work is usually good, but a part of me can't help but to think him again?

I agree. Maybe we can push Ubi to hire Dinklage?

 

[OboroShogun]

Ugh affirmative action is enough of a problem in real life, please let's not drag it into video games.... Who really wants to see visions dragged sideways, to make sure the protagonist fits a certain social criteria? These are video games made to entertain us and express the concepts of the artists that build them. It is not their duty to be a platform for any particular social, ethnic or gender representation.

 

[E92 M3]

Here it is again in case you missed it.

Yohalem wrote the screenplay for FC3, Lucien Soulban wrote FC3's Story Mission Design, he wrote FC3 - Blood Dragon and is writing FC4. Just checked his Linkedin profile.

Is that the prime minister in the new season of 24 lol?

I think being offended at everything is thing to do this past generation...sucks we have to drag video games into it though.

 

[DOWN]

Still good.

Er, that quote doesn't give accurate context into that guy's views. He's gay and has spoken out about numerous gay rights subjects and done TV about the issues.

He's not anywhere near suggesting people don't speak up when they sense a problem, and he certainly does speak out for gays.

People are misusing that quote as a way to suggest you shouldn't speak about something that concerns you. The issue here is that the character in question was mistaken for gay due to assumption. That doesn't mean it should also have been a nonissue about his portrayal if his sexuality had been confirmed as gay. If that situation were accurate and concerned people, they should be welcome to explain it and not met with accusations of whining or ignorantly claiming no one cares.

 

[ab.aeterno]

Here it is again in case you missed it.

It never ceases to amaze me how often people misuse that to try and shut down any discussion, as if that merely posting it somehow invalidates what anyone says. If you had the ability to argue a cogent point, you'd probably be able to do so, instead of having to post a picture to poorly argue it for you.

 

[FriedConsole]

As someone who isn't the most "manly" dude that people assume as gay despite not being gay, I am offended this game is representing my type as an evil villian.

 

[ArjanN]

Some people are not putting enough good fate on consumers. If it's blatant exploitism, people sniff it out immediately and it just disappears.

Remember those?

Images of Narc and BMX XXX

Those games also sucked though. A good game with an exploitative theme would get much less criticism.

Spoiler

See GTA.

 

[Shredderi]

Not gay? That's cool. Doesn't really matter in my eyes. Don't really know what to say about video game characters representing different kind of people. I never placed any duty on video games to give meaningful or educating opinions about these kinds of things. Above all else, I'm just hoping that Pagan Min will be a compelling character.

 

[Marvel]

Wouldn't matter if he was, character is stone cold badass to me.

 

[memnoch87]

Would have been cool if we was guy, would have added a new dimension to a very familiar character. Let's face it, a feminine bad guy is not a new concept, and still a wee bit offensive.

 

[RockTurtle]

i assume metrosexuals are still scoping out the situation.

 

[system11]

Not sure why this discussion is even a thing. Too much attention given to a small amount of noise.

I saw the trailer and I didn't consider his sexuality, it wasn't relevant to the trailer - what I took away from it is "this guy is psychotic and I'm not sure if he's friend or foe to the character, which makes him even more worrying."

 

[bj00rn_]

Would have been cool if we was guy

I have a guy friend.

 

[Riposte]

I wonder if Ubisoft is feeling any frustration over the recent few controversies. "Four main characters and you make them all male!?" "No, just the one main character four times". "Evil gay stereotype villain!?" "Was never said to be gay, on the contrary". "Yet ANOTHER white protagonist!?" "He's asian".

 

[JayKay1337]

Why do people care about the sex life of video game villains?

 

[Faith]

Why do people care about the sex life of video game villains?

Why do people care about the sex life of anyone?

 

[Pain]

Would have been cool if we was guy, would have added a new dimension to a very familiar character. Let's face it, a feminine bad guy is not a new concept, and still a wee bit offensive.

Cool? Not the word I would use.

 

[hohoXD123]

I wonder if Ubisoft is feeling any frustration over the recent few controversies. "Four main characters and you make them all male!?" "No, just the one main character four times". "Evil gay stereotype villain!?" "Was never said to be gay, on the contrary". "Yet ANOTHER white protagonist!?" "He's asian".

To be fair, the whole thing with FC4 wouldn't have happened if they had posted this summary at the same time as the reveal, surely someone in their PR department must have realised that the cover would have been taken in the complete wrong way without context, unless if that was intentional.

 

[Earthpainting]

Well is my face red. I still haven't see any footage of FC4, but I'd heard people claim he was gay so often that I assumed it must have come up in some of the footage or press material. Why not, right? But looking at the actual evidence now, he was just wearing pink? Come on.

 

[ShinobiFist]

Pink is gangsta.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

The logic behind the faux offense about this was bizarre:

Is a bad guy ->Wears pink suit and styles his hair -> Must be gay -> This is offensive because I am progressive

Shit made no sense.

 

[shem935]

So I just watched the reveal trailer, hadn't gotten around to until recently.



THAT GUY IS A STONE COLD BADASS! So freaking awesome. Baker's performance (at least in the trailer) was awesome. Gave me some serious joker vibes (from the way he acted). Why were people worried about him being gay? He had the potential to be the most awesome gay character/villain ever. Seriously. Though it is pretty obvious he is

Spoiler

your dad.

 

[Rolodzeo]

Ok. Don't really know why this is thread worthy but good for him, I guess.

 

[Dr Amazon MD]

Pink is gangsta.

Dipset!

I have yet to see a single "sorry we may have jumped the gun on this one," but maybe it'll make a few more people just wait for more information before they label anything as prejudice. Not saying anyone here did this, but it was clearly happening in popular social media sites.

 

[Enosh]

the "I would know those eyes anywhere" line from the trailer made it quite obvious that the bad guy was in some way connected to his mother, romantic interest being the most possible one, guess that confirms it

 

[Nymphae]

Is a bad guy ->Wears pink suit and styles his hair -> Must be gay -> This is offensive because I am progressive

Shit made no sense.

Seriously.

 

[Zoe]

Would have been cool if we was guy, would have added a new dimension to a very familiar character. Let's face it, a feminine bad guy is not a new concept, and still a wee bit offensive.

Where's the femininity?

 

[twobear]

Thanks LGBT community, but we already know that gay =/= evil. Thanks for your concern.

so then why is 'gay villain' a trope in the first place?

 

[Ithil]

That people assumed he was gay from his appearance (and thus were "outraged" or whatever that a villain was gay) would say more about what they think gay people look like than anything else.

 

[otapnam]

Asian villains have been portrayed with over the top flamboyant fashion style for decades. It's like everyone that complained never saw any classic hk action movies from the 80s and 90s

 

[Gbraga]

I agree. Maybe we can push Ubi to hire Dinklage?

IT'S THE HIIIIIIIVE

 

[AlphaDump]

i'm just glad he isn't gay so that there isn't any controversy.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Dehnus]

So, an odd topic about Far Cry 4's villain Pagan Min is whether or not the character is gay. People were worried that ubisoft would mis represent the LGBT community with the character. Ironically, these people were also jumping to conclusions that the character was gay due the box art, how he is dressed, his hair, and his attitude to the main character Ajay in the first 5 minutes of the game.

Gameinformer published an article about the creation of Pagan Min, you can read it here.

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/f...-look-at-far-cry-4-controversial-villain.aspx

Article goes into details about the characters background, their attempt to one up Vaas, etc.

However the relationship the player character Ajay and Pagan gives details on Pagan's sexual preferences.



Also the pink suit is simply there for style. They go into detail as to why Troy Baker was casted as Pagan



Hopefully this kills any worries of misrepresentation.

Also worth noting that I would like to see more LGBT characters in games, I just found it ridiculous people were jumping to conclusions because he was wearing purple.

Bu.. but but.. he was so cooool. I wanted him to be gay... sigh...

It's Judas for Jesus Christ Super Star all over again. Black Guy being Judas, Black community saying "OMG HE WAS SO COOL!". White good guys complain about him, result.. no more Black Judas :S.

Sigh... bad guys are almost always the best characters to play as an actor or to identify with in movies. Not soo... goodie two shoes, containing flaws and ... well FUN!

Unless he was hitting people over the head with Dildos and was so limpwristed that it got offensive... it shouldn't be offensive that he was gay and a bad guy. The man looked downright evil and yet... at the same time suave .

Sigh...

Sorry about my rant, I just feel a bit like some whiteknights (With good intentions) prevented a cool gay character (bad guy) to be in a game.

 

[Dehnus]

Yeah. Let's pat ourselves on the back for winning our self-created strawman arguments. Never mind the validity of being the least bit concerned and asking questions about suspect media content. Now those pesky LGBTers can shut the fuck up and leave our precious vidya games alone.

Indeed I'm pretty sure the LGBTI community had no problems with this, and it was just some whiteknighting group of people asking questions. The whole thing about representation in video games is not because we want to see only good guys. At least that is my take.

I also would love to see a cool bad guy. I mean there is a big difference between offensive stereotype evil villain and just being an antagonist that is well written.

 

[Jado]

I find it hard to read posts like this and knowing you can still post. No wonder the gaming culture used to have such a bad rep and posts like this are a reminder.

Used to? We have plenty of examples in this thread about how embarrassing gaming culture can be with little or no provocation. See:

Ugh affirmative action is enough of a problem in real life, please let's not drag it into video games.... Who really wants to see visions dragged sideways, to make sure the protagonist fits a certain social criteria? These are video games made to entertain us and express the concepts of the artists that build them. It is not their duty to be a platform for any particular social, ethnic or gender representation.

Thanks LGBT community, but we already know that gay =/= evil. Thanks for your concern.

A vocal minority of minorities get to cry foul about anything and everything because they have some delusional persecution complex.The reality is that any offense is created in equal or greater part by the offended,

Since most of you are choosing to behave in a stupid manner, can't form complex thoughts about this and rushing in to blurt out "well, why can't there be a gay villain?!?," read jgwhiteus's post below and other similar posts sprinkled throughout the thread. The people who were complaining in the first place were NEVER insisting that a villain can never be gay.

Well, even if he's written into the story as being heterosexual / bisexual, I think some of the criticism / controversy was that he was portrayed as being a stereotype "coded" as gay - the colored clothing and fashion, haircut, pose in his artwork (holding another man's head in submission). Yeah, sure, if you go into the script it might say he's in love with a woman, but I believe the concern was the artwork was conveying a shorthand to viewers - "look at this guy and how he doesn't look like a traditional villain, taking on effeminate or stereotypically gay qualities - that's how you know he's bad! Because effeminacy / non-traditional masculinity is bad."

There's a long history of this outside of video games - if you haven't watched it, I recommend the documentary "The Celluloid Closet" about how Hollywood "coded" and sent messages about homosexuality without ever mentioning the word so they could avoid censorship codes. One of the prime examples is Peter Lorre's character in The Maltese Falcon - portrayed as slightly effeminate and obsessed with fondling his walking stick (seriously) - the word "gay" isn't mentioned, but the viewers are meant to understand (consciously or unconsciously) that he's not to be trusted because he's "other".


And on the argument of "well, if you want equality there should be gay villains too!", I think that's a fair argument to make if you can point to all the gay heroes and protagonists as well. This isn't just limited to LGBT people, but also other racial and religious groups - Asians, Muslims, etc. When a minority group is relegated to portraying one type of character, whether positive or negative - the comic relief, the Asian geeky sidekick, the Muslim terrorist, the "black guy who dies first in the movie" - and don't have equal opportunities to portray other types of characters like the romantic lead or the hero, then there's a real concern with unequal and stereotyped representations.

Honestly I don't have a lot of interest in Far Cry 4, I just think arguments saying "equality means being comfortable being portrayed as the bad guy!" are silly when it's difficult if not impossible to point to examples of minorities being portrayed as the good guy.

And if any of you actually cared about this and weren't just eager to dismiss and shout down the "other side" you imagine is threatening video games, we'd see more thoughtful rebuttals like this:

Great post. I agree it becomes a problem when a stereotype is used to represent an entire group in all representations of said group in the media. But on the other hand, there are people out there (gay or straight) who are flamboyant, eccentric and wear clothes such as that. People like that do exist.

My issue is that I think it's absurd to say that NO fictional character can ever exist with these traits, because they have been used to stereotype in the past. Again, if it's something that is commonly used in the media, then I think it can be offensive. But what if the character isn't even gay? (Why can't he have those traits, why does he have to be gay). I get it, it's because in the past the media has used these traits exclusively to portray gay characters.

But I guess where I'm really trying to go with this is, I think a character should be judged on how they are actually written. And as of now, we don't know if the guy is well written or not. We know nothing about him. I said this earlier, I have no issue DISCUSSING these things. I think it's great to talk about these issues. I don't even have an issue with us discussing how these traits could be offensive. I just don't agree we should be saying it's 100% offensive or condemn Ubisoft until we actually see the product.

 

[Feorax]

Great post. I agree it becomes a problem when a stereotype is used to represent an entire group in all representations of said group in the media. But on the other hand, there are people out there (gay or straight) who are flamboyant, eccentric and wear clothes such as that. People like that do exist.

My issue is that I think it's absurd to say that NO fictional character can ever exist with these traits, because they have been used to stereotype in the past. Again, if it's something that is commonly used in the media, then I think it can be offensive. But what if the character isn't even gay? (Why can't he have those traits, why does he have to be gay). I get it, it's because in the past the media has used these traits exclusively to portray gay characters.

There's an interesting article on a subject similar to this after an ad was released with Alan Carr fronting it;

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/20/alan-carr-gay-men-homophobia-camp-prejudice

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

It never ceases to amaze me how often people misuse that to try and shut down any discussion, as if that merely posting it somehow invalidates what anyone says. If you had the ability to argue a cogent point, you'd probably be able to do so, instead of having to post a picture to poorly argue it for you.

I don't know how I feel about that, I'm kinda offended by your remark

Spoiler

Just kidding dude

 

[Mael]

I just saw the boxart of F4 for the 1rst time...
And well if the boxart is depicting the villain of the game, depicting him as the way they did is actually rather clever I'd say.
Whether or not he's gay is kinda irrelevant, it's not like it would mean all gay people are villain or something or that it would even imply that...

 

[Lizardus]

Used to? We have plenty of examples in this thread about how embarrassing gaming culture can be with little or no provocation. See:









Since most of you are choosing to behave in a stupid manner, can't form complex thoughts about this and rushing in to blurt out "well, why can't there be a gay villain?!?," read jgwhiteus's post below and other similar posts sprinkled throughout the thread. The people who were complaining in the first place were NEVER insisting that a villain can never be gay.



And if any of you actually cared about this and weren't just eager to dismiss and shout down the "other side" you imagine is threatening video games, we'd see more thoughtful rebuttals like this:

Are you sure you are fit to talk to us from that high horse that you ride on?

 

[JDSN]

Still good.

Internet cant use that quote for shit.