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[Connxtion]

I thought the reason was Apple allowed Netflix for example to redirect to there site to subscribe to the service. So Apple gets nothing, but it’s ok because it’s Netflix. Am sure there were a few others, Spotify I think was another.

That was being flung around when this all started over Fortnite.

 

[Zeroing]

there are no good guys vs bad guys.. both are the same, they want more money… that is what happens when for a company to be “successful” needs to generate more income each year…

 

[demigod]

Epic really are dumb with that stupid analogy. The Gas Stations are still getting a 30% cut. Don't want to pay? MAKE YOUR OWN PHONE.

 

[FutureMD]

Imagine if Windows only allowed you to use apps from their web store.


Imagine if Windows tried to charge fees for everything bought on their devices.



How it's even a question if this is okay is silly.

Surprised at the amount of people supporting apple tbh, 30% is too much and with such a ubiquitous apple product presence, at least in the Western world, having alternatives is important.

 

[Edgelord79]

I despise Apple and everything they stand for much more than Epic. It's not even in the same stratosphere.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of thing.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Epic is for the players and for the developers.

Let's go Epic!

 

[Thirty7ven]

That is the minimum you expect to share a bigger userbase without get any penny from the sales outside your store.

It doesn’t need to be defended because it is fair.

Other profiting over you userbase without pay for it is really indefensible.

No man, you don’t understand, PlayStation is anti consumer and anti competition if it doesn’t commit sepukku in order to benefit Xbox and Nintendo. Get with the times.

 

[Crimson_Fate]

Epic really are dumb with that stupid analogy. The Gas Stations are still getting a 30% cut. Don't want to pay? MAKE YOUR OWN PHONE.

If AT&T ,TMObile or Verizon turned around and said they want a cut of every app because its their network would that be ok ? Apple can just build their own network right ??? Sounds silly right. But that is what apple is doing. I believe apple can charge fees to make sure that any app placed on the phone does not compromise the security of the device but all apps need to be treated the same and they should not be able to vary fees from app to app.

 

[A.Romero]

I thought the reason was Apple allowed Netflix for example to redirect to there site to subscribe to the service. So Apple gets nothing, but it’s ok because it’s Netflix. Am sure there were a few others, Spotify I think was another.

That was being flung around when this all started over Fortnite.

Yes, the thing is that for Netflix and Spotify customers need and sign up on a website and then input their user and pass on the app. Epic could do the same but they wouldn't be able to sell in-app purchases meaning good bye impulse buyers and technically impaired people. They want the cake and eat it too.

 

[reinking]

If AT&T ,TMObile or Verizon turned around and said they want a cut of every app because its their network would that be ok ?

That would still be a stupid analogy. If say, Samsung decided they wanted to create an OS and then a store front so that all of their customer app purchases would be made through them, that would be the same thing. See how hard that would be for them to do? Apple has created that and I have no problem if they want to keep it. I use an Android phone so this isn't me being a rah rah Apple guy. It is me understanding what they have created and why they want to keep it that way.

 

[20cent]

You have it the wrong way round. Apple has the largest market share. Not Android.

No? Apple, as a phone manufacturer has the largest market share (vs Samsung, Sony etc).

In terms of OS, Android vs iOS is like 80% / 20% worldwide... and 60% / 40% US only

 

[demigod]

If AT&T ,TMObile or Verizon turned around and said they want a cut of every app because its their network would that be ok ? Apple can just build their own network right ??? Sounds silly right. But that is what apple is doing. I believe apple can charge fees to make sure that any app placed on the phone does not compromise the security of the device but all apps need to be treated the same and they should not be able to vary fees from app to app.

You don't need a cell network for apps, try again. See how stupid you look when you defend Epic?

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Is this your attempt at a defence?

Christ, LOL he asked you a fucking question

 

[Entroyp]

So this has the potential to allow third party stores/apps on iOS along with all the amateur crap and security issues that comes with it? Isn’t that what Android is for?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

If AT&T ,TMObile or Verizon turned around and said they want a cut of every app because its their network would that be ok ? Apple can just build their own network right ??? Sounds silly right. But that is what apple is doing. I believe apple can charge fees to make sure that any app placed on the phone does not compromise the security of the device but all apps need to be treated the same and they should not be able to vary fees from app to app.

The difference there is service providers already get billions of revenue from data plans, so they are already getting paid.

With software downloads, a F2P game like Fortnite has Apple making $0, but relies on app purchases for making money. What Epic wants as much as possible is Apple and gang to be good buddies helping them provide the game for free on their servers, but when it comes to collecting mtx money they want it direct to them.

If F2P games all do the Epic way, why would Apple want to be fighting with a partner for gamer's money where the game maker themselves are trying to go against the e-tailer?

What Tim Sweeney wants is like Costco having the cable sign up or aluminum siding guys standing at a kiosk selling people services. And for every sign up these guys get, Costco gets no cut as much as possible as they wont even sign them up in store, but tell them to avoid doing it here and sign up direct on our website to get around Costco. And Costco is nice enough to allow these guys to set up a booth for free in their store.

 

[Andodalf]

The difference there is service providers already get billions of revenue from data plans, so they are already getting paid.

With software downloads, a F2P game like Fortnite has Apple making $0, but relies on app purchases for making money. What Epic wants as much as possible is Apple and gang to be good buddies helping them provide the game for free on their servers, but when it comes to collecting mtx money they want it direct to them.

If F2P games all do the Epic way, why would Apple want to be fighting with a partner for gamer's money where the game maker themselves are trying to go against the e-tailer?

They should be able to get in the device via other means. Epic could have to okay MS 30% of all sales in game on PC, only they don’t have to because they can make their own launcher and storefront. Smartphones have reached the point PCs are at where they’re basically a public utility and need to be treated as such

 

[aisback]

The battle ls of the Tims

 

[Magic Carpet]

Lots of posters in here taking the side of like and hate rather than right and wrong. Just imagine your on trial and the Jury is full of Neogaf.
I remember a gaming crash in the 80's,
Activision put games on the 2600 and Atari got nothing. Atari went bye bye and then there was nothing until Nintendo and it's walled gardens came in saving gaming.

I don't know if people have been following the news but the Tech industry is in trouble. It's consolidated to very few companies with very few factories that are producing very few components.
If a meteor were to crash on the apple campus and all their products went away. What would this lawsuit really mean? It seems like Google would then become the new 'open' standard for hand helds. similar to what Microsoft windows was forced to become back in the turn of the century. Sorry Nintendo switch you can't be allowed to do your thing anymore. You now have to put your stuff on a Google device if you want any hope of making any money anymore.

 

[Aristides]

I hope Epic wins and the iPhone, as well as all video game consoles get opened up to 3rd parties to release software on them without the consent or support of the manufacturer. If that ends the console as we know it, then that's okay with me. The PC-ization of the console space would be good for consumers.

 

[e&e]

Piece together the topic of the thread with the comment I responded to and my own and you'll figure it out

So you are saying Windows is legally required to be an open platform?

 

[reksveks]

The difference there is service providers already get billions of revenue from data plans, so they are already getting paid.

With software downloads, a F2P game like Fortnite has Apple making $0, but relies on app purchases for making money. What Epic wants as much as possible is Apple and gang to be good buddies helping them provide the game for free on their servers, but when it comes to collecting mtx money they want it direct to them.

If F2P games all do the Epic way, why would Apple want to be fighting with a partner for gamer's money where the game maker themselves are trying to go against the e-tailer?

What Tim Sweeney wants is like Costco having the cable sign up or aluminum siding guys standing at a kiosk selling people services. And for every sign up these guys get, Costco gets no cut as much as possible as they wont even sign them up in store, but tell them to avoid doing it here and sign up direct on our website to get around Costco. And Costco is nice enough to allow these guys to set up a booth for free in their store.

Yeah, but you would be paying Costco to enter the store already. Apple already benefits from having Fortnite, Kobo and Spotify on their devices. Also it doesn't 'cost' about 90 dollars to go to another store.

 

[Silent Viper]

Let's hope Apple wins that one for the sake of fairness.

Fuck anti consumer company like Apple. Don't like Epic either but definitely fuck Apple and hope they rot in hell with their anti consumer policies.

 

[Estocolmo]

When you get a PC and buy a game from steam, where is the microsoft cut? You are using windows aren't you?
Same thing. Phones are computers. Multipurpose devices.

i really don't get how anyone can side with apple on this. well i do understand why, because for some irrational reason people hate tim sweeney.

Because it’s an apple device, don’t like their system, just get another smart phone brand

 

[quest]

They should be able to get in the device via other means. Epic could have to okay MS 30% of all sales in game on PC, only they don’t have to because they can make their own launcher and storefront. Smartphones have reached the point PCs are at where they’re basically a public utility and need to be treated as such

If epic gets to ride free on Apples billions of R&D for chips and devices yearly then then Apple should be able to give away epic MTX for free two way street the way I see it. If epic wants 0 cut build thier own phone and have a epic store spend the money on hardware.

 

[Estocolmo]

That wasn't it at all. It was simply about IE being included in the operating system.

Apple and the iPhone go waaaay beyond what MS was busted for back in the late 90s. Anyone siding with Apple on this one is dead wrong. Smartphones are ubiquitous devices necessary for every day life. Two companies should not be able to control what software is allowed on them. Apple literally has the power to crush many businesses based on capricious and arbitrary actions. They simply should not have that power, and businesses should be able to publish software directly for the iPhone.

Your free to start your own smart phone brand

 

[LordCBH]

Your free to start your own smart phone brand

Hey now. You spent hundreds of billions of dollars designing your device, designing your operating system, fleshing out how it works. But epic wants forknife to be free on the store and not have to pay what everyone else pays because fuck you and the billions you spent to even give them a customer base.

 

[N1tr0sOx1d3]

Hey now. You spent hundreds of billions of dollars designing your device, designing your operating system, fleshing out how it works. But epic wants forknife to be free on the store and not have to pay what everyone else pays because fuck you and the billions you spent to even give them a customer base.

Is 30% fair though? That’s almost a full 1/3 of your earnings.

 

[LordCBH]

Is 30% fair though? That’s almost a full 1/3 of your earnings.

It’s the industry standard and it’s what epic agreed to over a decade ago. It’s not like 30% was a hidden gatcha moment. A decade ago epic determined it was a fair bargain to access the wealth of customers on the ecosystem. The only thing that would be unfair is if it went “hey we’re hugely successful. Let’s raise it from 30% to 40% because it’s not like they’re gonna leave us.” which didn’t happen. Is 30% fair for providing billions of customers around the world, building the tools they send out to corporate and developer partners, and conducting R&D on in house chips that competitors have yet to be able to truly exceed? Yeah I’d say it’s fair.

 

[kikkis]

My take is that very very few software devs are viable on mobile app stores since people generally don't like paying for software and there is so many free alternatives as well. As for games they are hit driven business so vast majority of devs don't make anything but bankruptcy and those that do make so much that 30 percent cut doesn't really affect them as viability as business.

As much as people say that there isn't any room for more os in mobile space i think if this antitrust goes through we won't see that happening. Mobile os company could for example offer lower rates on app stores but if these goes through that competitive advantage goes away so there is actually less competition. Or company could sell devices at near loss and make up by 30 percent cuts on their app store.

I think antitrust laws actually reduce competition rather than increase it in long term

 

[LordCBH]

My take is that very very few software devs are viable on mobile app stores since people generally don't like paying for software and there is so many free alternatives as well. As for games they are hit driven business so vast majority of devs don't make anything but bankruptcy and those that do make so much that 30 percent cut doesn't really affect them as viability as business.

As much as people say that there isn't any room for more os in mobile space i think if this antitrust goes through we won't see that happening. Mobile os company could for example offer lower rates on app stores but if these goes through that competitive advantage goes away so there is actually less competition. Or company could sell devices at near loss and make up by 30 percent cuts on their app store.

I think antitrust laws actually reduce competition rather than increase it in long term

Depends. Some of what antitrust laws do is absolutely necessary. Ma Bell way back when and Microsoft with its incredibly strict contracts they basically forced on third party OEM’s to try and push rivals out of the browser space spring to mind. But what we have here is pretty flimsy and I don’t think it’s a winning case for epic. I really don’t.

 

[nordique]

You mean you didn't know Apple's ecosystem was closed before you made the decision of going in?

Personally, I've avoided their products because of that.

exactly

and I’ve done the opposite and gone into their ecosystem. I like the “walled garden” so to speak.

this is just apples business model and they have their device in the market that is successful and they have their terms and epic agreed to those terms, then purposely planned to break them when the fortnite cash cow started to take off

google also gave them the boot from the play store, people conveniently forget, for violating similar terms

 

[nordique]

People on this forum are fully aware.
Is Joe bloggs on the street? I doubt it.
In any case why shouldn't people have more choice, even within the Apple ecosystem?

That walled garden is what a lot of joe regulars like about apple products. Haven’t you seen these people at the apple store trying to figure out what a computer mouse is lol

 

[DenchDeckard]

Will Tim Cook epic or will we see Tim Sweeney Todd the throats of these fruits and watch the apple fall....tune in at 11.....


..I’ll get my coat.

 

[Deaconstanjesusman]

no thanks epic. I don’t want more stores and have to sign up to more accounts. Android has 80% of the mobile market. Whoever wants open can go there

 

[Gamezone]

When will we get the verdic?

 

[Zeroing]

Will Tim Cook epic or will we see Tim Sweeney Todd the throats of these fruits and watch the apple fall....tune in at 11.....


..I’ll get my coat.

Lol that’s only part 1 the European Union is planning to go after Apple as well… all Apple wants is money to save the environment, joking

 

[Banjo64]

So this has the potential to allow third party stores/apps on iOS along with all the amateur crap and security issues that comes with it? Isn’t that what Android is for?

Yeah but then I can play Pokémon on my phone without jailbreaking it.

 

[geordiemp]

As much as I dont like apple store, this case has wide implications for any supplier running a store that takes a cut

That includes Sony, Microsoft, Steam - basically everyone.

If every publisher can use a store for free and charge their own MTX then we will get free games and MTX and steam would be no more as they would get no revenue.

I dont have an answer.

 

[hlm666]

As much as I dont like apple store, this case has wide implications for any supplier running a store that takes a cut

That includes Sony, Microsoft, Steam - basically everyone.

If every publisher can use a store for free and charge their own MTX then we will get free games and MTX and steam would be no more as they would get no revenue.

I dont have an answer.

Would make things interesting if you could create a business/product and run it a certain way for over a decade then get taken to court by someone wanting to use what you have created for free. If they pull this off it could open the door so someone might almost be able to use unreal engine create a product, sell it and then not pay epic. Because they make enough money from fortnite and it's not fair having to pay epic for what they created because it's a monopoly in the engine license world.

 

[Dodkrake]

Not sure if this was added, but wanted to drop this link here as it seems relevant to this case

Press corner

Highlights, press releases and speeches

ec.europa.eu

 

[Menzies]

As much as I dont like apple store, this case has wide implications for any supplier running a store that takes a cut

That includes Sony, Microsoft, Steam - basically everyone.

If every publisher can use a store for free and charge their own MTX then we will get free games and MTX and steam would be no more as they would get no revenue.

I dont have an answer.

I think the difference from what I gather Sweeney is arguing is that the Apple store is unique because; -

- iOS is found on general computing devices (not single-purpose gaming consoles)
- Apple devices are sold at a high profit.
- Dedicated gaming consoles are sold at razor-thin margins or even loss-leaders (thus relying on app revenue)
- There are over 1 billion iOS users.

So I don't believe a court ruling in favor of Epic means applying a blanket rule for all digital stores.

 

[RoboFu]

Being both an iOS and Android owner it easy to say that every android App Store is a dumpster fire compared to the Apple App Store which itself is barely not full of complete trash.
It would be sad if Apple was forced to destroy little bit of integrity it’s store has.

but also as a software developer to make apps for that store is a huge pain in the ass with apples constantly changing requirements.

 

[reksveks]

Being both an iOS and Android owner it easy to say that every android App Store is a dumpster fire compared to the Apple App Store which itself is barely not full of complete trash.
It would be sad if Apple was forced to destroy little bit of integrity it’s store has.

but also as a software developer to make apps for that store is a huge pain in the ass with apples constantly changing requirements.

It wouldn't be destroyed, it would still exist but users would have the option to buy apps from other stores.

 

[ape2man]

So apple asks 30% in in app purchases. Why does apple not ask 30% for uber or uber eats or takeaway?

 

[onesvenus]

So apple asks 30% in in app purchases. Why does apple not ask 30% for uber or uber eats or takeaway?

It doesn't apply to real world items or services

 

[ape2man]

I like my phones security and app store the way it is. Stop messing with it. If I wanted something else I wouldn't have bought into apples ecosystem.

Bullshit argument, in app purchases through a different payment provider is already possible on the appstore. uber eats, take away etc. what is the fucking difference?

 

[ape2man]

It doesn't apply to real world items or services

Why not? What is the difference? in app purchases on fortnite have no connection to apple. It does not use any resources from apple. For apple their is no difference in cost between uber eats in app purchases and fortnite. Why then does epic need to pay 30% and uber does not?

 

[JSoup]

When will we get the verdic?

Depends on how long either side feels they need to drag this out. Which I imagine will be until it becomes redundant enough that the judge tells them all to sit down.

 

[hlm666]

So apple asks 30% in in app purchases. Why does apple not ask 30% for uber or uber eats or takeaway?

Why didn't Epic have this problem many years ago when they were happy telling us how great infinity blade (or whatever it was called) worked on iphone because oh how great apples dev environment was. Why was 30% fine back then but not now for Epic? Judging by the financials released this whole thing is pointless as far as fortnite is concerned. I suspect Tencent probably has a bunch of mobile shit that would benefit more though.

 

[ape2man]

Why didn't Epic have this problem many years ago when they were happy telling us how great infinity blade (or whatever it was called) worked on iphone because oh how great apples dev environment was. Why was 30% fine back then but not now for Epic? Judging by the financials released this whole thing is pointless as far as fortnite is concerned. I suspect Tencent probably has a bunch of mobile shit that would benefit more though.

Because some apps dont pay 30%. Like apple's own apps. or uber eats or takeaway or netflix or spotify