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Elden Ring might be one of the most overrated games ever!

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
I want to add something here regarding why Elden ring is great to so many -

it is more accessible than previous souls games - I found this to be true for myself - I didn’t love the other ones, Elden ring you can run away and discover something else whenever things get hard. There was always something I’d never done - and the art is so incredible that I enjoyed exploring for new things

There’s nothing to do but fight complaint confuses me - I guess I never was the guy who did the mini games in GTA or other open worlds, my primary thing in most games that I enjoy is fighting. The other stuff feels like busy work most of the time for me - in fact this is why I couldn’t get back into Horizon after playing Elden ring.

I don’t get that complaint either. There is so much to explore and do that you don’t need pointless mini games to fill in the void. Not to mention that such mini games would make zero sense within this world. Platforming, combat, stealth, exploration, light puzzle elements. There is plenty for anyone to do in the game. If it isn’t their cup of tea, it isn’t their cup of tea. But to me so many of these complaints are less “It just isn’t for me” and more “I suck and I want to blame the game for it instead of myself”.
 

Spaceman292

Member
The open world is boring because it‘s not really there for you to explore. Well, in theory it is. In practice, any joy you could have in exploring it is destroyed by anything that moves being so, so very intent on killing you because of reasons. It’s like what some people say women go through every day: merely existing? Well, the whole world is against you because of it. All the worst enemies in every classic Nintendo Hard game combined have nothing against Elden Ring’s birds, dinosaur dogs and mama bears. One of these things catches sight of you, you may shake it off in the next region of the world if nothing slows down your horse even a little bit during the chase. Oh, and if an archer sees you, you may just as well quit and reload. The world’s best war homing missiles aren’t nearly as accurate.

But you see OP, 96 metascore and 14 million sales mean you’re wrong and you should shut your trap, understand?
What are you trying to have here, an opinion? Tut tut.
Never seen so many bad takes in one thread. So now the fact that the enemies in a video game attack you is a negative aspect? What are you smoking?
 
It just sounds like it isn’t for you, that’s fine but the game is one of the best ever. The exploration is amazing in my opinion and there is so much to find and see. Stumbling into Sofria River by accident is probably in my top 5 moments in gaming. If you think the exploration is rubbish, you aren’t going to enjoy the game at all, it’s basically the highlight.

I’d take a guess that one of the reasons the game reviewed so well is because it feels like a breath of fresh air in a sea of open world titles that seem like a reskin of each other, with quest markers all over the map and nothing to give the player some space to really feel like they can do whatever they want.

Elden Ring never pushes you to do certain things and doesn’t try to overwhelm the player with too much in terms of map size. It just gives you a short tutorial covering the basics and then provides a space for you to explore.
 

tassletine

Member
I agree with a lot here, although it's extremely hyperbolic.
I would like to ask the OP though, what is boring about the open world compared to other games? Because most open worlds feature much less variety in level design.
It appears that you're just trying to rush through, without savoring any of the content.

"There's no reward to wander around the map, other than that sense of finally finding a cave with some sort of decent level design to go through and fight a boss".

Personally, I would say that the open world is very well designed, and that a great deal of enjoyment comes from not only working out how to get to where you want to go, but also what you see when you get there, both in a level design and enemy design -- Once you've done that, at that point I would agree with the OP -- You find caves with some decent level design to get to a boss.

But here is seems like the OP is deliberately dismissing the art direction / gameplay in the open world to make their point -- That the game is ALL about the dungeons/castles -- Then they turn around and saying that the dungeons are overused. You can't win.

The game does have issues, but I think the OP is focusing far too much on the combat, like it's the meat of the game.
ER is not Sekiro or even really DS in terms of combat. It's definitely a step back -- But the game offers a lot more in terms of worldbuilding, variety and lore.
And if you dismiss that, the sheer adventure and variety of it, you're missing out.
 

Kssio_Aug

Member
I agree with a lot here, although it's extremely hyperbolic.
I would like to ask the OP though, what is boring about the open world compared to other games? Because most open worlds feature much less variety in level design.
It appears that you're just trying to rush through, without savoring any of the content.


"There's no reward to wander around the map, other than that sense of finally finding a cave with some sort of decent level design to go through and fight a boss".

Personally, I would say that the open world is very well designed, and that a great deal of enjoyment comes from not only working out how to get to where you want to go, but also what you see when you get there, both in a level design and enemy design -- Once you've done that, at that point I would agree with the OP -- You find caves with some decent level design to get to a boss.

But here is seems like the OP is deliberately dismissing the art direction / gameplay in the open world to make their point -- That the game is ALL about the dungeons/castles -- Then they turn around and saying that the dungeons are overused. You can't win.

The game does have issues, but I think the OP is focusing far too much on the combat, like it's the meat of the game.
ER is not Sekiro or even really DS in terms of combat. It's definitely a step back -- But the game offers a lot more in terms of worldbuilding, variety and lore.
And if you dismiss that, the sheer adventure and variety of it, you're missing out.
For me particularly, the main problems of the open world design are:

1) It feels dead, but not in the sense that it was designed to feel that way, but because every enemy NPC just stay walking around in circles, and merchants or quest related NPCs just stay still in that same position forever.

2) There's pretty much no interaction with it. Unlike BotW for example, which you could use the environment to kill enemies by throwing them from cliffs, or throwing boulders at them, or having the combat affected by the rain and wind (or even using the thunder from the rain to favor you in battle), setting things on fire, and so on. In Elden Ring the world feels absolutely static.

3) Also unlike TW3 or RDR2, nothing actually happens other than stumbling upon bosses or invaders. There's no interesting events and NPCs appearing along the way. Again, the world feels very static and dead.

4) The rewards from exploring are, imo, not really worth it most of the time. Other than the runes, pretty much every loot you get is uninteresting.

I feel like the game has not been evolved mechanically to adapt to an open world environment, and for me at least it DEFINITELY wasn't worth sacrificing all that constant well crafted level design to make a pretty much dead large area with interesting content distributed far away from one another.

It also killed quite much of the tension in exploring the previous games had, since you can pretty much ignore everything along the way with Torrent. If you're not in a dungeon, there's no real sense of danger. In fact, the moments of biggest tension in the open world for me, are when I am intending jumping from a relatively tall place and am absolutely not sure the character is gonna die from it or not.
 
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G-DannY

Member
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WolfusFh

Member
I'm very serious. You're saying people on Gaf treat it as the greatest thing ever made, yet this very thread should prove to you that there are plenty of people on here who don't think that's the case. Just because some think it's the 2nd coming, doesn't mean that's the whole narrative within the gaming community.

Also it's weird that you say "this this very day" when the game's been out for 3 months.
First, that's not just on Gaf. It's everywhere. I just used an example.
But you're right, not everyone thinks like that. Hell, the fact that I and this thread exists is evidence to that. I'm not saying this is an unanimous point of view.

However, the fact is that there is a significant number of people that share this "2nd coming" point of view. I cannot claim that it is the majority or the minority of the player base, it's statistics of data I couldn't possibly have. However, the sheer number is quite high. Coupled with the fact that many reviews, on sites, YouTube and pretty much everywhere, also claim that it is a perfect masterpiece. Couple that with the fact that, as per tradition with from software games, anything under the sun is compared to Elden Ring, usually to undermine a new game and praise Elden Ring, and I think the claim that the game is overrated is warranted.

Another thing: I think all of the arguments you used would apply to Breath of the Wild as well, wouldn't it? There are also many people on Gaf and other places criticizing the game. But there is indeed a great number of people that claim it's the greatest ever made. So what's the difference here? Hell, I see much more "it's perfect" comments regarding Elden Ring than BOTW. Of course, that's just what I see, not necessarily representing the whole picture. So I'd like to know your basis for the claim that these situations are different.
 
I think the whole genre/series only succeeds due to stroking neckbeards' egos, getting bragging rights, and in general hiveminded thinking that if somebody thinks the game is bad, you either a) haven't played it b) didn't play it right c) wasn't good at it.

It's like a rite of passage for mouth breathers, and people are ready bind their whole manhood and ego to it.
People say these same exact excuses about ANY game, doesn't matter if the game is hard or not. People "bind their ego" to all sorts of ridiculous games for some reason.
 

thefool

Member
Don't know if its overrated, can't say I've enjoyed it tho.
The game seems to fail at its most basic function, which is being clear over its mechanics. Seem to rely on me knowing them beforehand or I have to go read about it (which i will definitely won't do).
The exploring itself also doesn't seem all that great. Every cave I went through was pretty much the same, it just felt all so pointless.
 
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WolfusFh

Member
Elden ring isn’t overrated, FromSoftware is overrated.
I couldn't agree more. There are 3 things that I find extremely annoying about the From Software fan base and from people in general:
"The git gud mentality" this one is well known, so I won't go into detail, but yeah, pretty dumb.
" Everything is souls like". This one is unbearable. A lot of people act as if Dark souls invented everything in gaming. "Healing item with animation? Souls like mechanic. Dodge with i-frame and rolling animation? Yeah, game is a souls-like". "Hum, dark asthenics in this visual novel? Wow, a visual novel souls like". Even abstract shit like "the way it feels" is used as an, ahem, "argument". Just because a game has one or two superficial elements that were present in Dark souls, doesn't mean it's inspired by it. This genre itself is dumb as fuck.
"This [insert mechanic] is the best ever made". Souls combat? The best in gaming. Souls exploration? The best. Best implementation of difficulty, so on. You see this with Elden ring, too. It has open world? Best open world ever made.

The combination of these factors validate a lot of the claims regarding how the company is overrated.
 

MagnesD3

Member
Just needed to say the title of this thread should replace elden ring with Breath of the Wild for most overrated game, that's a game that's actually overrated (still great tho).
 
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WolfusFh

Member
But to me so many of these complaints are less “It just isn’t for me” and more “I suck and I want to blame the game for it instead of myself”.
Please. This is the reply of every souls fanboy to every criticism. Giving new clothing to "git gut" doesn't change it's obvious content. Try to address what people are saying instead of projecting your dumb "automatic reply argument" onto them.
 

WolfusFh

Member
Don't know if its overrated, can't say I've enjoyed it tho.
The game seems to fail at its most basic function, which is being clear over its mechanics. Seem to rely on me knowing them beforehand or I have to go read about it (which i will definitely won't do).
The exploring itself also doesn't seem all that great. Every cave I went through was pretty much the same, it just felt all so pointless.
"Nah man, don't you get it? You just suck haha. The game being clear about it's mechanics? Lol, you just want your hand held in gaming, like a baby. Why don't you go play the other baby games that show you everything, like the other games that are not made by From Software? Elden Ring is for real strong people bruh, you're weak and a baby"

Expect this reply countless times whenever you say that.
 

YoungEmperor96

Neo Member
First, that's not just on Gaf. It's everywhere. I just used an example.
But you're right, not everyone thinks like that. Hell, the fact that I and this thread exists is evidence to that. I'm not saying this is an unanimous point of view.

However, the fact is that there is a significant number of people that share this "2nd coming" point of view. I cannot claim that it is the majority or the minority of the player base, it's statistics of data I couldn't possibly have. However, the sheer number is quite high. Coupled with the fact that many reviews, on sites, YouTube and pretty much everywhere, also claim that it is a perfect masterpiece. Couple that with the fact that, as per tradition with from software games, anything under the sun is compared to Elden Ring, usually to undermine a new game and praise Elden Ring, and I think the claim that the game is overrated is warranted.

Another thing: I think all of the arguments you used would apply to Breath of the Wild as well, wouldn't it? There are also many people on Gaf and other places criticizing the game. But there is indeed a great number of people that claim it's the greatest ever made. So what's the difference here? Hell, I see much more "it's perfect" comments regarding Elden Ring than BOTW. Of course, that's just what I see, not necessarily representing the whole picture. So I'd like to know your basis for the claim that these situations are different.
I don't understand this mindset very well. I mean, you seem annoyed that a lot of people think ER is '2nd coming', or ER is one of the best games of all time. If a lot of people think it's overrated, similarly there are a lot of people who think it's a masterpiece. Objectively, both BOTW and Witcher 3 have many flaws, even many people see, but does that prevent them from being praised by many as the best games of all time? And it doesn't stop anyone from thinking they're overrated, their opinion makes perfect sense. Why should you be annoyed when so many people praise the ER ?
 

Mephisto40

Member
The open world is boring because it‘s not really there for you to explore. Well, in theory it is. In practice, any joy you could have in exploring it is destroyed by anything that moves being so, so very intent on killing you because of reasons. It’s like what some people say women go through every day: merely existing? Well, the whole world is against you because of it. All the worst enemies in every classic Nintendo Hard game combined have nothing against Elden Ring’s birds, dinosaur dogs and mama bears. One of these things catches sight of you, you may shake it off in the next region of the world if nothing slows down your horse even a little bit during the chase. Oh, and if an archer sees you, you may just as well quit and reload. The world’s best war homing missiles aren’t nearly as accurate.

But you see OP, 96 metascore and 14 million sales mean you’re wrong and you should shut your trap, understand?
What are you trying to have here, an opinion? Tut tut.

"The game is bad because enemies attack you" has to be one of the most foolish reasons to not like a game I have ever heard in my entire life, congratulations lol
 
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WolfusFh

Member
I don't understand this mindset very well. I mean, you seem annoyed that a lot of people think ER is '2nd coming', or ER is one of the best games of all time. If a lot of people think it's overrated, similarly there are a lot of people who think it's a masterpiece. Objectively, both BOTW and Witcher 3 have many flaws, even many people see, but does that prevent them from being praised by many as the best games of all time? And it doesn't stop anyone from thinking they're overrated, their opinion makes perfect sense. Why should you be annoyed when so many people praise the ER ?
Objectively, ER also has flaws. If you paid attention to what I wrote, you'd even see that I think that the BOTW and ER situation are comparable.

And to be clear, what's annoying is the unwarranted or "blind praise" and fanbase arrogance. Basically, the people saying that everything the game does is the best ever and that all games should be like that, with no logical argument. Couple that with the "git gut" replies when the game is criticized, and couple that with the insults to other games "lol other games hold your hand like a baby, I'm a real man, Elden ring is for real men" or similar replies, then it's pretty self-explanatory why I find it annoying. Also, another thing to add is that this annoyance, for me in particular, is added to previous annoyance regarding from software fanboys, which I addressed in another comment.

That being said, the comments I see spammed right now, everywhere, is about Elden Ring. So that's I'm talking about it right now. If people do the same thing with BOTW2, I'll be saying the same thing. I wasn't on this forum when BOTW released, hence why I didn't talk about it back then.
 

engstra

Member
As someone who enjoys and has played some From games in the past, but don't regard them as the pinnacle of gaming as many do on this forum, I have really enjoyed my time with the game so far. Controls and combat feels as good as it always has. For me it's one of the best open worlds I've played. The design feels like a From game. In terms of environmental design I do think there at the top of the industry. The open world does feel a bit barren while the legacy dungeons have been the highlight of the game. I'm loving exploring the map though and feels rewarding in the sense that by exploring and leveling up I'm finding my character to be well-equipped to face bosses when progressing main quest. Getting to a tough boss and just deciding to go in the opposite direction to explore and come back leveled up and able to beat them makes the game feel really good and justifies the open world design imo.
Narratively From games have always been absolute dogshit/generic high-fantasy lore. I'm 90 hours in and have no idea what the game is about. The game is so vague in some of its storytelling that I just stopped caring. For example, at the roundtable a bunch of characters who were there in the beginning have died and I have no idea why. The game is also very bad at explaining its mechanics. Played the first half of the game without using summons because I could not for the life of me figure out how to do it. Thought the game had glitched and had not received the summoning bell only to find it hidden somewhere deep in my inventory.

All that said, it's been a long time since I was this engrossed in a game. Just because a game has flaws doesn't mean it's not a 10/10. It's like Last of Us 2. Did I think it executed everything flawlessly? No. But considering its overall achievement and impact it too was a 10/10 in my eyes.
 

ANDS

Thought gaf was racist. Now knows better, honorary gaffer 2022
(a) majority of them, including RDR2, Witcher 3, ubisoft games, etc.

(2) disabling them isn't an option because, unlike ER, they are designed assuming the player has access to all those things, meaning you cant play the game properly without these.
I know because i tried. Plenty of times.

That wasn't an "or" in my conditional. It was an "and." I booted up RDR2, TW3 and even Valhalla and this isn't true in the slightest. Hell I knew it wasn't true because it is how I play these games default, but I wanted to at least give you the benefit of the doubt that you're arguing in good faith. More fool me I guess.

You said it clearly, you get tired of the main game which prompts you to do unrelated stuff within the game. In my book, you aren't supposed to get tired of the main game, the main game is the thing thats supposed to keep you engaged, if only long enough for a play session per day or so.

Imagine being so committed to a bit that you are now flummoxed, that someone can get tired of an activity - temporarily or otherwise - but not the whole event. You're discussing the merits of Elden Ring's open world, a game genre that is literally about superfluous content to the main quest (we call these side-quests or side-activities, to throw some "new words" at you). You've gone from "ER's open world content is better than X and Y" to "Well gosh why would anyone do anything but follow the Guidance?!"
 

Draugoth

Member
I just wanna start out by saying I'm so grateful to this game and community. Allow me to indulge my entire life story in front of this opportunistically large audience.

When the original announcement trailer came out at TGA, I thought "there's no way I could be into this... I can't tell what the story is about, and waiting will be far too difficult." I ignored it and left it alone for several months.

Luckily, I had a friend who was super into waiting for Elden Ring that wouldn't let it go after the big release and hype. He kept egging me on try to play the game again, read deeper into the lore, and see what sense of pride and derangement others got from waiting for Elden Ring. That could be mine, too.

Now I should let you know, before giving in to the game hype, I was a very well adjusted individual. I had stable relationships, enjoyed vanilla sex, held a steady job, and bathed regularly. Little did I realize what a spiral of chaos I'd enter upon giving the game a second go.

Upon playing for the second time as a dual wielding hulking guts clone character, I immediately I realized I missed a few things the first time. Elden Ring is actually collaboration between JRR Tolkien and Hideo Kojima?!?!? Sign me up!! The biggest name in fantasy writing and Japanese cutscene development... no wonder the hype for the game is so justified!

Next I noticed there was this super liked and beloved blue girl doll, this malenia sword guy, and uh.. well. Honestly the game didn't make that much more sense the second time around, but after getting my friends to help me beat some of the super hard liurnia of the lakes bosses for me, I finally made it to the end! I defeated John Eldenring!

As I listened to the silence as the Producer and Developer credits rolled, I was left in awe. What did I just witness??

After that, I did a deep dive into Elden Ring. It started simple, with wikia walktroughts to have the best outcome possible ofr my favourite characters. However my search for new characters to play became an addiction. I started playing the game every day. I started reading 4chan leaks for future DLC. I got a tattoo of the bald guy. I lost my ability to distinguish between real world and caelid. I somehow convinced myself that "next time... i will stop playing Elden Ring..." EVERY SINGLE TIME. I started making daily jornal entries telling this lie to myself.

This addiction has utterly destroyed my life. My fiancé broke up with me after I asked her if I could sell pictures of her feet. I lost my job because I was always distracted by this game. Now I make my living off of Malenia x Ranni r34 commissions in my gamer's basement, and I can't remember what sunlight smells like.

It's no overstatement to say playing Elden Ring is responsible for destroying my life, and without it, I would be in a much happier place. Maybe even with a future at all. The rest of my life decisions and situational factors outside of playing Elden Ring.

I also wanna give a shoutout to the Let Me Solo Her Dude who invaded one of my boss fights and utterly destroyed my hopes of beating Malenia, Blade of Miquella when i finally made to 87.65% of her health on my 836264th attempt! Fuck you dude!

Anyway maybe I'll post some of my art later. I'll be sure to stand in the photo so the attention stays on me instead of Elden Ring. Very important.

Lastly, any of you guys know any Elden Ring food recipes? Maybe I can make a tarnished out of bacon, and a Ranni cake with blue icing.

Anyone else want to share their Elden Ring life stories?
 
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Guilty_AI

Member
That wasn't an "or" in my conditional. It was an "and." I booted up RDR2, TW3 and even Valhalla and this isn't true in the slightest. Hell I knew it wasn't true because it is how I play these games default, but I wanted to at least give you the benefit of the doubt that you're arguing in good faith. More fool me I guess.
Then tell me, how the hell did you know where the next mission on witcher 3 was without looking at some icon on the map. How the hell did you do some of the missions without witcher sense. How did you play RDR2 without those messages at the top corner of the screen telling you EXACTLY what you're supposed to do or its mission failed?

Let me guess, you kept bringing maps and menus pretty much all the time to check the same icons and paths you'd get with the HUD enabled. Same shit but annoyinger. I know, because i tried.

In ER, all you have to do to know you're on path is follow landmarks. Your final destination? That giant fucking tree in the distance. Intersting spots? Those ruins, castles, secluded paths, giant towers you're seeing scattered around, theres always something interesting there.
TW3 and RDR2 have none of that, destinations are always "random building in this giant town" or "random spot on the forest" that need to be followed in specific orders or at specific moments. The game gives you no way on knowing how to progress without explicitly telling you where to go next.
And even when you do go for something that might look interesting, it isn't rewarding because almost always theres either nothing there or just some useless item if you're lucky.


You're discussing the merits of Elden Ring's open world, a game genre that is literally about superfluous content to the main quest
And this my friend is what is severely wrong about your conception, and what i've been arguing about the whole time.

The open world genre is not about superfluous content. You just been led to believe such because so many games do just that. Many developers, Rockstar Games being the biggest perpetrator, don't know what they're supposed to do with their large open worlds, after all they just wanted the tag because it sells. So they just fill them with "stuff" in hopes something sticks and they can give some illusion of actually having content.

An open world enviroment is supposed to complement the main game (or main quest as you're calling it), not exist in spite of it.
 
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Kssio_Aug

Member
I just wanna start out by saying I'm so grateful to this game and community. Allow me to indulge my entire life story in front of this opportunistically large audience.

When the original announcement trailer came out at TGA, I thought "there's no way I could be into this... I can't tell what the story is about, and waiting will be far too difficult." I ignored it and left it alone for several months.

Luckily, I had a friend who was super into waiting for Elden Ring that wouldn't let it go after the big release and hype. He kept egging me on try to play the game again, read deeper into the lore, and see what sense of pride and derangement others got from waiting for Elden Ring. That could be mine, too.

Now I should let you know, before giving in to the game hype, I was a very well adjusted individual. I had stable relationships, enjoyed vanilla sex, held a steady job, and bathed regularly. Little did I realize what a spiral of chaos I'd enter upon giving the game a second go.

Upon playign for the second time as a dual wielding hulking guts clone character, I immediately I realized I missed a few things the first time. Elden Ring is actually collaboration between JRR Tolkien and Hideo Kojima?!?!? Sign me up!! The biggest name in fantasy writing and Japanese cutscene development... no wonder the hype for the game is so justified!

Next I noticed there was this super liked and beloved blue girl doll, this malenia sword guy, and uh.. well. Honestly the game didn't make that much more sense the second time around, but after getting my friends to help me beat some of the super hard liurnia of the lakes bosses for me, I finally made it to the end! I defeated John Eldenring!

As I listened to the silence as the Producer and Developer credits rolled, I was left in awe. What did I just witness??

After that, I did a deep dive into Elden Ring. It started simple, with wikia walktroughts to have the best outcome possible ofr my favourite characters. However my search for new characters to play became an addiction. I started playing the game every day. I started reading 4chan leaks for future DLC. I got a tattoo of the bald guy. I lost my ability to distinguish between real world and caelid. I somehow convinced myself that "next time... i will stop playing Elden Ring..." EVERY SINGLE TIME. I started making daily jornal entries telling this lie to myself.

This addiction has utterly destroyed my life. My fiancé broke up with me after I asked her if I could sell pictures of her feet. I lost my job because I was always distracted by this game. Now I make my living off of Malenia x Ranni r34 commissions in my gamer's basement, and I can't remember what sunlight smells like.

It's no overstatement to say playing Elden Ring is responsible for destroying my life, and without it, I would be in a much happier place. Maybe even with a future at all. The rest of my life decisions and situational factors outside of playing Elden Ring.

I also wanna give a shoutout to the Let Me Solo Her Dude who invaded one of my boss fights and utterly destroyed my hopes of beating Malenia, Blade of Miquella when i finally made to 87.65% of her health on my 836264th attempt! Fuck you dude!

Anyway maybe I'll post some of my art later. I'll be sure to stand in the photo so the attention stays on me instead of Elden Ring. Very important.

Lastly, any of you guys know any Elden Ring food recipes? Maybe I can make a tarnished out of bacon, and a Ranni cake with blue icing.

Anyone else want to share their Elden Ring life stories?
dave chappelle drugs GIF
Surprise Reaction GIF
 

tassletine

Member
For me particularly, the main problems of the open world design are:

1) It feels dead, but not in the sense that it was designed to feel that way, but because every enemy NPC just stay walking around in circles, and merchants or quest related NPCs just stay still in that same position forever.

2) There's pretty much no interaction with it. Unlike BotW for example, which you could use the environment to kill enemies by throwing them from cliffs, or throwing boulders at them, or having the combat affected by the rain and wind (or even using the thunder from the rain to favor you in battle), setting things on fire, and so on. In Elden Ring the world feels absolutely static.

3) Also unlike TW3 or RDR2, nothing actually happens other than stumbling upon bosses or invaders. There's no interesting events and NPCs appearing along the way. Again, the world feels very static and dead.

4) The rewards from exploring are, imo, not really worth it most of the time. Other than the runes, pretty much every loot you get is uninteresting.

I feel like the game has not been evolved mechanically to adapt to an open world environment, and for me at least it DEFINITELY wasn't worth sacrificing all that constant well crafted level design to make a pretty much dead large area with interesting content distributed far away from one another.

It also killed quite much of the tension in exploring the previous games had, since you can pretty much ignore everything along the way with Torrent. If you're not in a dungeon, there's no real sense of danger. In fact, the moments of biggest tension in the open world for me, are when I am intending jumping from a relatively tall place and am absolutely not sure the character is gonna die from it or not.
1) I get that. But I would say that crosses over with the design of the gameworld. You may like to think there's no reason for them being lifeless, but there is.
Having said that, if you are playing a version of the game where the NPC'S never move, like you've stated, then you've most likely got a broken copy of the game or haven't been paying attention.

2) I get that also. Although the weather / day night do have some impact so you're incorrect there.

3) I found the NPC's fascinating and more memorable than most open world games. One of the first NPC's you meet is a merchant who asks you if you want to open a gate. He gives you two options for progress.
That merchant then stalks you around the castle, locks you in a room with a deadly enemy, and will loot your body if you die. He is also found stamping that area's boss head after you defeat him in a rather vengeful manner.
That doesn't sound like 'nothing happening' as far as NPC's go. Although I admit that events don't jump out at you like they would in RDR2.

4) You'd need to define what makes a reward, not worth your time.
I don't find collecting runes interesting myself as you do. My reward was the landscape and art design, seeing cool things. I've never understood the interest in collecting virtual currency.

Your comments about Torrent are accurate though. You CAN ignore pretty much everything along the way, and it seems like you've been doing a lot of that!
If you're just in the game to beat it, collect runes etc. This really isn't the title for it, but there is a hell of a lot of subtle stuff that is passing you by from what you've said.

But your criticisms have some merit, the world could have been a lot smaller, and what you've said really hit home during the snow levels, which are poor, sparsely populated and drawn out.
 

G-DannY

Member
3) I found the NPC's fascinating and more memorable than most open world games. One of the first NPC's you meet is a merchant who asks you if you want to open a gate. He gives you two options for progress.
That merchant then stalks you around the castle, locks you in a room with a deadly enemy, and will loot your body if you die. He is also found stamping that area's boss head after you defeat him in a rather vengeful manner.
That doesn't sound like 'nothing happening' as far as NPC's go. Although I admit that events don't jump out at you like they would in RDR2.

 

ANDS

Thought gaf was racist. Now knows better, honorary gaffer 2022
Then tell me, how the hell did you know where the next mission on witcher 3 was without looking at some icon on the map. How the hell did you do some of the missions without witcher sense. How did you play RDR2 without those messages at the top corner of the screen telling you EXACTLY what you're supposed to do or its mission failed?

. . .by looking at the map.

Let me guess, you kept bringing maps and menus pretty much all the time to check the same icons and paths you'd get with the HUD enabled. Same shit but annoyinger. I know, because i tried.

You didn't use the map in ER? Impressive.

In ER, all you have to do to know you're on path is follow landmarks. Your final destination? That giant fucking tree in the distance. Intersting spots? Those ruins, castles, secluded paths, giant towers you're seeing scattered around, theres always something interesting there.

. . .that and following the huge LITERAL breadcrumbs that you can't turn off. Hmm. I wonder why they put those in their game?

TW3 and RDR2 have none of that, destinations are always "random building in this giant town" or "random spot on the forest" that need to be followed in specific orders or at specific moments. The game gives you no way on knowing how to progress without explicitly telling you where to go next.

One of my favorite encounters in RDR2 was just fishing on a lake and enjoying watching people go about their day. After I had enough fishing (I know, crazy thought, I got tired of fishing and decided to do something else) I decided to see if I could row around the rivers edge, just because. I came up on a shack in the middle of nowhere with some folks arguing, man and son. Father pulls on me and I hogtie him and get the story from the son. Not a good situation, made worse when you find out what happened with the mum. Decided to shoot the dad and loot the place because I'm a degenerate and this was my WESTWORLD. Later found out this was a part of the collection quests. This is never communicated by the game nor does the game stop you from doing what you're doing.

. . .but you're right. The above pales in comparison to "discovering" a catacomb, beating an endboss that you've almost surely fought already and then being rewarded with an enemy you've already fought as your new sidekick.

And even when you do go for something that might look interesting, it isn't rewarding because almost always theres either nothing there or just some useless item if you're lucky.

I'm glad your level of excitement at getting another summons you won't use or looting an arcstone after exploring off the beaten never waned. It did for me. And if you are exploring because you know you are going to be rewarded for something, then you aren't exploring - you are making your way through "checklist content."

And this my friend

I'm not your friend, guy. . .

is what is severely wrong about your conception, and what i've been arguing about the whole time.

The open world genre is not about superfluous content. You just been led to believe such because so many games do just that. Many developers, Rockstar Games being the biggest perpetrator, don't know what they're supposed to do with their large open worlds, after all they just wanted the tag because it sells. So they just fill them with "stuff" in hopes something sticks and they can give some illusion of actually having content.

An open world enviroment is supposed to complement the main game (or main quest as you're calling it), not exist in spite of it.

None of the superfluous content in TW3 or RDR2 exist in opposition to the main game. It is all content that is internally cohesive to the world and is there to be engaged with or ignored. That they exist creates a "lived in" feeling to the open world that the static and largely unchanging world in ER can't compete with. ER's world exist for the player; the world in TW3 and RDR2 exist largely in spite of them.
 

Aion002

Member
I get your point since I do agree that the open world aspect "killed" the amazing pace that the other From Software games have.

However, the game has so many amazing things thanks to the open world. Exploring is fun, the world is amazing, the enemies are interesting and challenging and there's an incredible amount of weapons, skills and spells to acquire that makes creating different builds extremely fun.

Maybe the game is a little overrated... I personally enjoyed more Sekiro, DKS3 and BB... But that's just me, nonetheless the game is amazing.
 

tassletine

Member
None of the superfluous content in TW3 or RDR2 exist in opposition to the main game. It is all content that is internally cohesive to the world and is there to be engaged with or ignored. That they exist creates a "lived in" feeling to the open world that the static and largely unchanging world in ER can't compete with. ER's world exist for the player; the world in TW3 and RDR2 exist largely in spite of them.
I would agree with that assessment -- Except in ER the world exists for the player in the same way it exists for every other creature in the game (as they all have pretty much the same goal) and this needs to be taken into account.
That is not the case with more the more realistic games you mention.

Every creature in ER seems to be looking to do exactly what you are doing, to ascend somehow -- They either have grace and follow it, or are now lost, digging desperately for runes.
All are all looking for a leg up, and almost all are all solitary figures who have fallen and now alone. They all point the finger back at you, metaphorically speaking. Why are you here? What are you doing?
The NPC's aren't really there to provide quests, like other games, really to help flesh out the story.

So, an open world that exists in spite of you, doesn't work with THIS story, even though I think it's a valid criticism gameplay wise.
This isn't a story about a lone wolf going on a mission to save the world or even his town or even his friends. This is a game about dungbeetles fighting over a pile of dung.
 

Tarnished

Neo Member
I thought it was incredible. My only issues with the game are technical, there's no way it should have stuttering, a 60fps cap, no ultrawide support and barely any video options on PC.
 

Madflavor

Member
The only criticism towards Elden Ring that I think is completely bonkers and outright wrong, is that exploration doesn't feel rewarding. I don't think it's a common criticism, but I have seen a couple people make that claim. The things you find wandering the world range from small little ruins containing a chest, to sprawling enormous optional areas, some of which lead to even more optional areas. Fucking insane that some people think it's unrewarding to explore.
 

Thief1987

Member
The only criticism towards Elden Ring that I think is completely bonkers and outright wrong, is that exploration doesn't feel rewarding. I don't think it's a common criticism, but I have seen a couple people make that claim. The things you find wandering the world range from small little ruins containing a chest, to sprawling enormous optional areas, some of which lead to even more optional areas. Fucking insane that some people think it's unrewarding to explore.
What's rewarding in discovering dozens of copypasted caves?
 
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NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
Keep playing, sounds like you’re really early on in the game, you can see difficult enemies as a hint that you’re strolling around in a mid game area as a beginner character, later on you’ll laugh at how hard you thought the rune bears and giant crows were.
Thanks, but… well… I finished the game a few weeks ago after 190 hours and two aborted runs.
And those enemies never got any less obnoxious as I progressed. Still and always a pain in the ass that can chase you for miles, hurt you from afar with a belch, and drain all your energy with a quick combo while they have literal thousands of HP.
 

22•22

Doesnt need recognition
Thanks, but… well… I finished the game a few weeks ago after 190 hours and two aborted runs.
And those enemies never got any less obnoxious as I progressed. Still and always a pain in the ass that can chase you for miles, hurt you from afar with a belch, and drain all your energy with a quick combo while they have literal thousands of HP.

Yeah i still think it's a blueprint because of said issues
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
Thanks, but… well… I finished the game a few weeks ago after 190 hours and two aborted runs.
And those enemies never got any less obnoxious as I progressed. Still and always a pain in the ass that can chase you for miles, hurt you from afar with a belch, and drain all your energy with a quick combo while they have literal thousands of HP.
Oh okay, fair enough. I haven’t finished it yet so I don’t know if they return later more powerful. The rune bears in Limgrave are no problem for me now though, I just stayed far away until like level 40 lol
But there is a lighter gray one in Caelid near the Nokron lift that was difficult and put up a serious fight even above level 70… The Caelid crows are mostly annoying, once they’re done with their combo pecking you can rush away from it’s easy to go in for some big hits.
I downed a Gargoyle in the capital though that was a serious struggle even over level 80… Probably the hardest non-boss I’ve fought so far, I was amazed to not see a great enemy felled message, had to resort to cheap shots with the bow, close up fights was a big no-no.

Still a long way to go for me but so far I like the challenge since there is always another way to go. I haven’t been stuck yet. The biggest struggle for me is to not mess up quests cause it’s so open, exploring alone can end quests and you get no hint that it might happen, that’s the biggest criticism I have, I would like a quest log or a warning that going further may affect quests.
 
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Woggleman

Member
Fromsoft games are like the gaming version of Magic The Gathering and Dungeons and Dragons. Since I am not a fan of those games I am not a big fan of Fromsoft. To each their own but what I don't like is how some fans act like every other game is inferior or every other open world is inferior since ER came out. If the hardcore fans of these games were less obnoxious I think there would be less backlash.
 

Romulus

Member
I'm going to try it in VR with the 3rd and 1st person options. I can't play a game with that much scale without VR.
 

Alebrije

Member
The game is fine , you explore and fine stuff but it surfers from the Open world "illness" you waste time on áreas that are little related with the main sport...
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Please. This is the reply of every souls fanboy to every criticism. Giving new clothing to "git gut" doesn't change it's obvious content. Try to address what people are saying instead of projecting your dumb "automatic reply argument" onto them.

When most people’s “arguments” for why the game is bad/overpraised can be essentially boiled down to “I suck at the game, so its the game’s fault”, people will continue to use the “git gud” statement. There is *plenty* to criticize about Elden Ring and other Soulsbourne games. From its archaic quest systems, poor performance, lack of accessibility options, and more. Crying about bosses being too difficult or too “fast” with “not enough time to attack” is the fault of the player in all instances. Not the game or its design.
 

WolfusFh

Member
When most people’s “arguments” for why the game is bad/overpraised can be essentially boiled down to “I suck at the game, so its the game’s fault”, people will continue to use the “git gud” statement.
Sure, of course it is. If by "most argument" you mean the fanboys interpretation whenever someone says anything negative about the game, then yes sure.
Crying about bosses being too difficult or too “fast” with “not enough time to attack” is the fault of the player in all instances. Not the game or its design.
Too bad then that in regards to this thread, that was just one of the points, besides your take being a clear strawman. Even if it weren't, it's just one of the points in this thread, yet you act as if that's all OP is "crying about".

So, as per usual, it's just the garbage souls fanboys standard reply. I'm inclined to believe that there's some programing in these fanboys mind that generate similar forms of the "git gut" statement whenever some negative statement about a From software game is identified, and you are doing a pretty job as evidence for this belief.
 
That video about the quests is accurate, but not accurate enough.


Quests in Miyazaki games are like this:

1. Sage Asshole can be found in Mountain of Ass. From the Center of Mountain of Ass Site of Grace, go southwest until you see a hill you can jump down from that leads to 2 cavern entrances. Enter the one on the right, which will immediately present you with 3 separate paths. Take the leftmost one. In here, there will be a Horrible Abomination with No Name Because The Game Likes To Be Obscure that cannot be seen or damaged unless you purchase an Obscure Coin from the Nameless Merchant that can be found northeast of the Lake of Ass Site of Grace underneath the archways. After killing it, continue onward to find Sage Asshole. Keep talking to him until you exhaust his dialogue. Now go to the Roundtable Hold and talk to NPC A and ask about Sage Asshole until their dialogue is exhausted. Go back to Sage Asshole and exhaust the dialogue again.

2. After you have beaten Main Story Boss, Sage Asshole will now be at Church of Ass Site of Grace. Exhaust his dialogue here. If you do not talk to him here before killing Main Story Boss 2, he will be killed and the quest cannot be continued.

3. After you have beaten Main Story Boss 2, he will be found at the Obscure Site of Grace From Two Regions Ago. If you completed Warrior Asshole's questline, Sage Asshole will appear to be hostile. Attack back, but DO NOT KILL HIM. If you stop attacking him once he is near death, he will stop attacking as well. If you have not completed Warrior Asshole's questline, exhaust his dialogue. Go back to Roundtable Hold and talk to NPC A again, asking about Sage Asshole and exhaust the dialogue.

4. After you have beaten Main Story Boss 3, make sure you do not complete Idiot NPC's questline, or Sage Asshole will become indefinitely hostile and the questline cannot be completed. Also, make sure that NPC A is talked to BEFORE approaching Sage Asshole, or Sage Asshole will be killed and the questline cannot be completed. When you are ready, Sage Asshole can be found back at his original spot near the Center of Mountain of Ass Site of Grace. Exhaust his dialogue and give the Obscure Item given by NPC A to him.

5. Now, Sage Asshole can be found at the Roundtable Hold and you will finally be able to upgrade your weapons.
 
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Madflavor

Member
What's rewarding in discovering dozens of copypasted caves?
Ok this is the bullshit. Are there copypasted caves? Yes there are. Is that also a gross oversimplification of optional content? Yes it is.

Optional areas that you can find in the game include:

1. Caves
2. Catacombs
3. Heroes Graves
4. Ruins
5. Castles
6. Legacy Dungeons
7. Entire Zones

The first four are the only ones that are arguably copy pasted. They are optional little challenge areas that take 15-30 minutes to get through. Beyond that the Legacy Dungeons and Optional Zones that you can discover, that aren't part of the main path, provides dozens upon dozens of hours of content. Some of theses areas include:

1. Haligtree
2. Lake of Rot
3. Volcano Manor
4. Mohgwyn Palace
5. Nokron
6. Nokstella
7. Siofra
8. Uhl Palace
9. Deeproot Depths
10. Leyndell Sewers
11. Ainsel River
12. Elphael

And that's not even naming all of them. As for rewards? Exploring optional content in the game rewards you with:

1. Weapons
2. Armor
3. Spirit Ashes
4. Upgrade materials
5. Talismans
6. Spells/Miracles

If I may be so bold to add this seventh one, which is the sense of wonder and discovery for finding new places in general. The complaint that some players had of finding things that don't cater to their build is whiny and unrealistic. We're talking about an action rpg that offers a huge variety of different builds. By that very nature, most of the time you're going to find gear that doesn't line up with you build. That has also always been the case in every Souls game. But even in that regard it's never a total waste of your time. Providing you didn't die and lost your runes, you still gain experience, plus whatever odds and ends you found along the way. Again, you might also be the type of player that just enjoys the sense of discovery in general.

But let's cut the shit with "Exploration is just copy pasta". That's an oversimplified, disingenuous criticism toward the game. A lot of people seemed perfectly happy doing the same 120 shrines in Breath of the Wild, but Elden Ring reuses the same variety of aesthetics for minor dungeons, and oh dear. That's a big no no.
 
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WolfusFh

Member
Ok this is the bullshit. Are there copypasted caves? Yes there are. Is that also a gross oversimplification of optional content? Yes it is.

But let's cut the shit with "Exploration is just copy pasta". That's an oversimplified, disingenuous criticism toward the game. A lot of people seemed perfectly happy doing the same 120 shrines in Breath of the Wild, but Elden Ring reuses the same variety of aesthetics for minor dungeons, and oh dear. That's a big no no.
You see, this. This is the type of comment I respect. You addressed the criticism directly by using objective evidence that exists in the game. No assumption about OP's skills, no strawman, no off topic assumptions about OP's life. Just a logical, seemenly valid counter argument.

Many of the people that replied here should try to learn with this comment.
 
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