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Dusk Golem reiterates that the Xbox will be more powerful than the PS5 (Admitted to starting console wars, demodded)

assurdum

Banned
Ah, that’s where all the outrage is coming from. Salty Sony fanboys that one of the most anticipated games of all times runs better on Xbox compared to PlayStation, because of marketing? Lol. Are cyberpunk devs now MS shills? :D
Do you have any evidence? Any proof?


AC: Valhalla is a bad game to compare PS5 to the nvidia graphics cards, It's more optimized for AMD GPUs than Nvidia ones (which is not the case for most games).
Look at this benchmark: https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pag..._graphics_performance_benchmark_review,6.html
The RX 5700 XT does almost as good as the RTX 2080 Super on ultra 1440p (59 vs 60 so -1.7%) while doing +3.5% better than the RTX 2080 and +11% better than the RTX 2070 super. While on average the RX 5700 XT is 6% slower than the RTX 2070 super in 1440p:

So because it's better optimized on ps5 and AMD (but strangely not on series X, just why uh?), but worse on Nvidia card, we can't say ps5 can perform close to the 2080 super in case by case? That's a weird logic, but everything is fair when we have to downplay the ps5 hardware, isn't ? As the game wasn't bugged or with performance issue on ps5 too. I bet if indeed it was the series X, some people as you would have clapped their hands more loudly 😉
 
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Exactly. It is running in BC mode with some additional features because it's next-gen aware. But it is still literally running in BC mode because there is no next-gen version yet.

Hence the quote by DF: "Quite why both consoles don't get the same features may well come down to how backwards compatibility is implemented by the platform holders. We know that Xbox allows for new Xbox One games to be 'aware' that they are running on Series consoles, opening the door to further console-exclusive features."

And how did you miss it's not a like-for-like comparison? DF is explicitly saying that the PS5 and XSX cannot be compared like these because one version (XSX) has additional settings unlocked while the PS5 version doesn't.

Then how and why are you using CP2077 to claim that XSX is more powerful than PS5?
People here used more tuffs of grass in Borderlands 3 as evidence of PS5s superiority. Yet in this game any advantage for the XSX convienently don't count. It's cool we'll just count this as a PS5 victory and move on.
 

v_iHuGi

Banned
So because it's better optimized on ps5 and AMD and worse on Nvidia card, we can't say ps5 can perform close to the 2080 super? That's really convenient . I bet if indeed it was the series X, the narrative would have been changed.

Let him dream, Ps5 is the superior console, tech and sales wise.

Jack of all trades.
 

StrongGuy

Member
Holy shit, people. Just accept that the Xbox Series X is the weaker console. The evidence is pretty clear at this point.
Microsoft went with vanilla Zen 2 and RDNA 2. SONY could have easily matched it if they wanted to, but the playstation department probably had more funding to perform a cost-benefit analysis with adding more CUs vs adding cache scrubbers + Zen 3 features. Playstation decided that the latter was better for performance and went with it.

Playstation probably has way more funding than the Xbox division to make these kinds of plays. Unless Xbox somehow becomes successful, they'll always be behind in power every generation, because they don't have the money and the scale to create custom components.
 
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Mr Moose

Member
AC: Valhalla is a bad game to compare PS5 to the nvidia graphics cards, It's more optimized for AMD GPUs than Nvidia ones (which is not the case for most games).
Look at this benchmark: https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pag..._graphics_performance_benchmark_review,6.html
The RX 5700 XT does almost as good as the RTX 2080 Super on ultra 1440p (59 vs 60 so -1.7%) while doing +3.5% better than the RTX 2080 and +11% better than the RTX 2070 super. While on average the RX 5700 XT is 6% slower than the RTX 2070 super in 1440p:

PS5/Series X version isn't 1440p, comparison between them and PC that isn't using dynamic res is useless.
 

StrongGuy

Member
Do people really think SONY couldn't use vanilla Zen 2 + RDNA 2 if that combination yielded better performance?
We're talking about a console that will sell 120+ million units and has recurring PSN revenue compared to a console that may not hit 30 million sales and far lower recurring revenue. This means that:

1. Playstation is receiving far more in funding than the Xbox division is. They can perform a cost-benefit analysis while Xbox is stuck with vanilla parts.
2. Better economies of scale on playstation to use custom parts. Xbox doesn't have the scale to make custom parts cost-effectively.

The fact the Xbox was waiting for AMD to finish RDNA 2 should have been a red flag that they were strapped for cash and would create an unoptimized machine, but I guess people here were too blinded by fanboyism.
 
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He has got "way too many" sources within the industry. He has an impeccable track record. I remember watching the PS5 reveal on the 5th of February like it was yesterday. We all know the PS5 is indeed 9 tflops because he is not lying, Cerny is the liar. I still remember when Cerny stole my last kitkat and lied to my mom about it.

If there is one insider I trust on this website it's VFX. He singlehandedly gave us the PS5 Pro at launch. Did Cerny? Nope. I was playing cyberpunk on my PS5 pro yesterday with ray traced reflections at native 8k 120 fps. VFX made that happen.
Amazing 😂
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I don't think this is true reason. Probably patching last version to nextgen on xbox if more flexible and can't be done same way on playstation (similar situation with rocket league and 120fps patch, devs said it's not possible on ps5 without realeasing new game)
PS5 has a next gen toggle too. It increases the framecap to 60 fps whereas the PS4 Pro version has a framecap of 30 fps.

For xbox, their next gen toggle adds a 30 fps mode and 60 fps mode while enabling higher quality settings. There is no ray tracing or any kind of fancy next gen feature that cant take advantage of BC.

Ah, that’s where all the outrage is coming from. Salty Sony fanboys that one of the most anticipated games of all times runs better on Xbox compared to PlayStation, because of marketing? Lol. Are cyberpunk devs now MS shills? :D
Do you have any evidence? Any proof?
Richard from Digital Foundry said that in the first CD Project console video last week.

And cybperunk actually runs worse on the xsx compared to the PS5. It just has higher quality graphical settings which is precisely why it runs worse.
 

John Wick

Member
bullshit. XSX has a quality and a performance mode. One X does not have anything like that. Also PS5 is different.
These are not simply BC versions. DF already confirmed it.

But you do you, whatever makes you sleep at night buddy.

EDIT: Quote from DF:


"Xbox Series X also offers more than just backwards compatibility. While it does seem to share a bunch of features from the Xbox One X version of the game, it gains the ability to choose between quality and performance modes - a choice you don't have on One X.
City density in terms of NPC and vehicle count sees Series X clearly running with higher settings - it's not a like-for-like comparison."
Bittermuch there is no PS5 version of Cyberpunk as it hasn't released. So you can't compare it to the unreleased SX version. Either your stupid or deliberately being dense. I know your desperate for a SX win to justify to yourself the 12 teraflops of pwoar. The games are running in BC mode with Xbox having extra work put in on it.
 

John Wick

Member
Exactly. It is running in BC mode with some additional features because it's next-gen aware. But it is still literally running in BC mode because there is no next-gen version yet.

Hence the quote by DF: "Quite why both consoles don't get the same features may well come down to how backwards compatibility is implemented by the platform holders. We know that Xbox allows for new Xbox One games to be 'aware' that they are running on Series consoles, opening the door to further console-exclusive features."

And how did you miss it's not a like-for-like comparison? DF is explicitly saying that the PS5 and XSX cannot be compared like these because one version (XSX) has additional settings unlocked while the PS5 version doesn't.

Then how and why are you using CP2077 to claim that XSX is more powerful than PS5?
It's called sheer desperation!
 

John Wick

Member
In that case, are they really an insider? Everyone on these forums and Reddit were basing future performance off of on-paper specs. An insider is supposed to look beyond that and give us accurate information that may not always be apparent.
You mean like real devs who were stating all along that the performance was close?
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
I'm lost.

Is the PS5 really more powerful than the XSX?! If that were true then MS wouldn't be able to claim the XSX is the most powerful console would they?
 

John Wick

Member
Crows, crows everywhere.

I also see some still using games run in BC modes as proof of next gen performance....oh boy...

Look, the Series X performance should get better, I hope...... But it's time to just accept the current results.

Never mind the end results in the face offs....just know, accept that the PS5 isnt as weak as many claimed and hoped. Thats it. Dont worry about the other stuff.
Hahaha! You just need to look at the specs of the RTX 3090 vs 3080 an an example of not being duped by on paper specs. The 3090 is a monster compared to the 3080. Yet it's only on average 11-12% better in games than the 3080. That's with the 3090 having more ram too. SX and PS5 have same amount of ram. On paper the 15-16% compute advantage will be even less in actual games.
 
fjGCMIt.gif


Whenever dusk golem opens his mouth. A bunch of lumpy diarrhea comes pouring out in gallons of bs.
 

Elios83

Member
Dusk Golem, he spread so much bullshit during the summer months that it's probably a record.
PS5 price at 599$/60.000yen. Microsoft was waiting for Sony to announce their price to undercut them at all costs because they have the money, they can do all they want :messenger_tears_of_joy:
All developers struggling with 4k on PS5 but not on XSX, RE engine having issues just on PS5 and RE8 would be showcased at TGS running smoothly but on PC:messenger_tears_of_joy:
And the Silent Hill directed by Toyama and Japan studio....yeah the same Toyama who actually left Sony....
NONE of this happaned.

And I see that in this same thread there are delusional people who want to use Cyberpunk as an example of the superiority of XSX when they perfectly know that the PS5 BC version was simply not allowed to run at higher than PS4 Pro settings (and it's still the console version with best possibile frame rate). All this ignoring all the other comparisons where XSX performs worse, it's laughable.
I understand that going from expecting huge gaps to being beaten was a big blow but at least try to keep contact with reality...
 
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John Wick

Member
I'm lost.

Is the PS5 really more powerful than the XSX?! If that were true then MS wouldn't be able to claim the XSX is the most powerful console would they?
No! SX has more CU's and more compute power along with faster memory bandwidth and CPU is 2.6% faster but the PS5 has a faster clocked GPU along with faster SSD and IO throughput. A console is only as good as it's overall design and the sum of it's parts. Both consoles are closely matched with both having strengths and weaknesses. But overall I think the PS5 is the more effecient and forward thinking design.
 

Shkyboy924

Neo Member
Duh? There is no PS5 version. It hasn't released yet. It's the PS4 and Pro game running in BC. Is that hard to understand?

Yeah there seems to be a lot of premature dick-swinging over Cyberpunk 2077's performance in backwards compatibility mode on the SX.

Until the actual next gen versions come out I'd recommend putting the dicks on standby because at this point it just looks like rabid fanboy foaming from the mouth.
 
They change that. Its now "most powerful xbox" on their site

For the people who think you are lying

Before


The most powerful console ever
Xbox Series X is our most powerful console ever, powered by our custom designed processor leveraging AMD's latest Zen 2 and RDNA 2 architectures.

The new system on a chip (SOC) has been built from the ground up for speed and performance, with 12 teraflops of processing power and with compatibility in mind for four generations of games.

Now

 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Hahaha! You just need to look at the specs of the RTX 3090 vs 3080 an an example of not being duped by on paper specs. The 3090 is a monster compared to the 3080. Yet it's only on average 11-12% better in games than the 3080. That's with the 3090 having more ram too. SX and PS5 have same amount of ram. On paper the 15-16% compute advantage will be even less in actual games.
yeah, it seems even nvidia has run into a bottleneck with increasing CUs or shader cores in their GPUs. They have nearly tripled the stream processors from rtx 2080's 2944 to 8799 for the rtx 3080. The tflops have gone up from 11 to 30. 3x increase in power only gives less than a 2x increase in performance. actually less than 2x, 80% on average instead of the 200% the 3x increase in tflops and shader cores would suggest.

meanwhile, AMD had to add on a 6 billion transistor on chip RAM solution to get performance to scale with tflops and shader cores. Xbox does have 18% more tflops and 40% more shaders but they dont have the infinity cache to remove the bottlenecks that plagued the vega cards.
 

Krisprolls

Banned
Yeah there seems to be a lot of premature dick-swinging over Cyberpunk 2077's performance in backwards compatibility mode on the SX.

Until the actual next gen versions come out I'd recommend putting the dicks on standby because at this point it just looks like rabid fanboy foaming from the mouth.

And even on this BC version, perf mode actually ran better on PS5 in comparisons. But yes, next gen versions is where comparison will make sense on this game. No reason it would be different than other comparisons, PS5 is basically always on top.

PS5 is the better designed and slightly more powerful console, they'll have to deal with it sooner or later.

Not that PS5 actually needed that mind you, since it already had tons more great exclusives and next gen features like haptics, but hey, it's a nice plus.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
Man what an embarrassment he made for himself after most of what he claimed are being exposed to be absolute bullshit. I guess his 5 minutes of internet fame is over.
He clearly created the "info" because Xbox was have a batch of bad news while PS5 was having a batch of good news.
But what can we expect with the mismanagement marketing done by MS? He should had accepted that Xbox marketing was hitting them back and nothing could chance that near the eminent release of the machines.
 
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Say, who at Sony peed in VFXVeteran VFXVeteran 's cheerios to warrant the apparent vitriol he feels toward them anyway?
So, my insider is supposed to know about every game that's out NOW when he was told impressions back then based off of specs? And SlimySnake SlimySnake mentioning 9T (comparison was made against an equivalent Nvidia board - 1080Ti, which was always correct). Also, PS5 "pro" speak obviously isn't the same jargon that you guys are expecting. There was indeed, a 2nd SKU PS5 released at the same time. Also, HZD did come out on PC. And I'm sure ND is working on a PC version of the TLOU.
So your insider isn't actually an insider? Because outside of a PC port first reported elsewhere, none of the info I've seen you post from him has ever really come to fruition, my guy. Your record looking as spooky as DG's right now.

Comparisons were still wrong, btw.
 
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John Wick

Member
yeah, it seems even nvidia has run into a bottleneck with increasing CUs or shader cores in their GPUs. They have nearly tripled the stream processors from rtx 2080's 2944 to 8799 for the rtx 3080. The tflops have gone up from 11 to 30. 3x increase in power only gives less than a 2x increase in performance. actually less than 2x, 80% on average instead of the 200% the 3x increase in tflops and shader cores would suggest.

meanwhile, AMD had to add on a 6 billion transistor on chip RAM solution to get performance to scale with tflops and shader cores. Xbox does have 18% more tflops and 40% more shaders but they dont have the infinity cache to remove the bottlenecks that plagued the vega cards.
Exactly! That's why I think Cerny was clever in designing the system to remove as many bottlenecks as possible. A console is the sum of it's parts and design not just the raw compute power when if everything runs at 100% 24/7.
 
I'm lost.

Is the PS5 really more powerful than the XSX?! If that were true then MS wouldn't be able to claim the XSX is the most powerful console would they?
It's more efficient. Def punching above its weight. Not more powerful in terms of theoretical raw performance, but the efficiency allows it to run more smoothly across the board and, if nothing else, keep the gap close moving forward.

TL;DR, it is, as I said back in APRIL, far closer than Team Xbox wanted to admit.
 
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thelastword

Banned
For the people who think you are lying

Before




Now

They stopped that claim as fast as PS5 started to show better performance in comparisons.

It is not "the world most powerful Xbox created".
MS knew PS5 was more powerful for a while actually......That "most powerful XboX ever" started making the rounds a bit before the consoles launched......Phil was privy to it. I'm sure DF told them "hey Phil, PS is winning in our preliminary tests", hence John said "there would be surprises", which I made a thread on......Yet the point is, even before faceoffs and public game comparisons, the messaging from XBOX changed....
 

StrongGuy

Member
God the Sony fanboys are nauseating

No, we aren't. What was nauseating was the amount of horsecrap that was spewed from the Xbox camp before the comparisons came out. Now that the results aren't going in your favor, you want to claim the other side is acting immaturely. None of this fanboy crap would have happened if the Xbox camp didn't focus on power throughout the year.

Also, did you really think Xbox's vanilla Zen 2 + RDNA 2 was going to win the power war when playstation had the option of doing the same thing or going with custom parts? Playstation didn't go with custom parts over more CUs just for the hell of it. It was a conscious decision.
Xbox didn't have a choice. They didn't have the funding and a genius like Mark Cerny to make custom parts and were stuck with what AMD gave them.
 

StrongGuy

Member
If off-the-shelf Zen 2 + 52 CU RDNA 2 yielded better performance, SONY would have done that. It doesn't take a lot of effort to take what AMD made and do no customizations.
SONY went with GPU cache scrubbers, GE, and Zen 3 CPU for a reason. They had the money to do a cost-benefit analysis and determined that vanilla AMD hardware performs worse.

Anyone expecting the power gap to go in XSX's favor is in denial. I expect the gap to increase in PS5's favor as the gen goes on. There are far more things inside the PS5 that devs have yet to utilize, while XSX is probably already tapped out.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
Exactly! That's why I think Cerny was clever in designing the system to remove as many bottlenecks as possible. A console is the sum of it's parts and design not just the raw compute power when if everything runs at 100% 24/7.
I can add that nVidia and AMD can remove the bottlenecks just like Sony did (after all AMD did most the work with PS5's APU) but they are limited with what they can do on PC due the different components from different companies.
So to chance that and remove bottlenecks in PC you need that all components follow the same standard and that is something not easy to do in a near term plan (needs to create a standard, make everybody accept it, wait to the first hardware, wait the consomes move to new PCs with that standards, etc).
That can take years.

AMD is in a better position because they have two big components in the math while nVidia just one.

So it is not a matter nVidia and AMD can't do... it is just they need a lot of more time to make these chances compared with a proprietary hardware that can have these chances whatever they want.

Some of the ideias found in PS5 will probably reach the PC in some years.
PC will probably add some new and better ideias too.
 
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jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
People here used more tuffs of grass in Borderlands 3 as evidence of PS5s superiority. Yet in this game any advantage for the XSX convienently don't count. It's cool we'll just count this as a PS5 victory and move on.

Isnt that the next gen tufts of grass tho? Again....BC isnt the same as the next gen versions. This shouldn't be hard to comprehend. DF even pre faced their CP2077 analysis with...BC....

When GrassGate for GTA V hit the PS4, XBO it was the cross gen versions. Same thing with BL3. DF might have tested the last gen versions of GTA too.

But its still different versions. What some of yall wanna puff chests out about is a game ran in BC moide, that had extra love on the Xbox side. If that helps some ppl deal with it, I dont know what to say.

That depends on whether a console is more powerful in words or in action? Consoles are real-time, so I figure that wins over words....

I heard that if you are too quiet, you are ashamed of your product, have something to hide. Maybe ppl that think that also are stuck on words.

"Actions speak louder than words"
 
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Shkyboy924

Neo Member
And even on this BC version, perf mode actually ran better on PS5 in comparisons. But yes, next gen versions is where comparison will make sense on this game. No reason it would be different than other comparisons, PS5 is basically always on top.

PS5 is the better designed and slightly more powerful console, they'll have to deal with it sooner or later.

Not that PS5 actually needed that mind you, since it already had tons more great exclusives and next gen features like haptics, but hey, it's a nice plus.

I played it on my Playstation 5 so it was interesting to see the framerate uncapped to 60 and mostly staying there. I agree with your statement which immediately makes me go back to the whole point of this thread, that DuskGolem is full of shit.

He preached the gospel of Xbox Series X like the second coming of Christ and yet all analysis points at both consoles neck and neck or in some cases the Playstation 5 performing better.

What I don't seem to understand is why this jockstrap was taken seriously in the first place with a track record of huge steaming turds of apparent information.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
No, we aren't. What was nauseating was the amount of horsecrap that was spewed from the Xbox camp before the comparisons came out. Now that the results aren't going in your favor, you want to claim the other side is acting immaturely. None of this fanboy crap would have happened if the Xbox camp didn't focus on power throughout the year.

Also, did you really think Xbox's vanilla Zen 2 + RDNA 2 was going to win the power war when playstation had the option of doing the same thing or going with custom parts? Playstation didn't go with custom parts over more CUs just for the hell of it. It was a conscious decision.
Xbox didn't have a choice. They didn't have the funding and a genius like Mark Cerny to make custom parts and were stuck with what AMD gave them.
100% this.
MS and Xbox fans created their own grave with misleading marketing and FUD.
It hold some weigh before the console were in people hands.
But it was something not sustained after the consoles releases... so it backslashed them.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
I played it on my Playstation 5 so it was interesting to see the framerate uncapped to 60 and mostly staying there. I agree with your statement which immediately makes me go back to the whole point of this thread, that DuskGolem is full of shit.

He preached the gospel of Xbox Series X like the second coming of Christ and yet all analysis points at both consoles neck and neck or in some cases the Playstation 5 performing better.

What I don't seem to understand is why this jockstrap was taken seriously in the first place with a track record of huge steaming turds of apparent information.
Because in the past he shared some Resident Evil info that turned to be true.
But after the Silent Hill fiasco I believe he is just a broken clock.
He will eventually get something right.[

PS. He will probably call he was right if Silent Hill get announced in some future year... after all he confirmed it every single month of this year.
 
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