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Doom Eternal is the best single player shooter ever made

Himuro

Himuro

Member
bender said:
The "noise" as you aptly describe it is why I didn't love 2016. It's a shame as the gun play is a ton of fun, it's just all the trappings surrounding it that bummed me out. Eternal cranked all that noise to 11.

The customizable home screen sums it up nicely.

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I have played neither Doom 2016 or Doom Eternal yet. Only the original and Doom 64 but this looks super wack and I don't want that shit in my Doom.
 
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Ulysses 31

Ulysses 31

Member
Playing through this on nightmare(just got the Ballista) and I'm not a fan of the game level design. A lot of the structures in this universe don't make sense if there wasn't someone around that could double jump and dash. Doom 2016 at least tried to make the areas you're fighting in make more sense.

Also don't like the way you're pushed to be constantly moving forward in fights and how "standing your ground" way of fighting is severely punished. Doom 2016 was a bit like this too but the enemies are so ferocious in Eternal that you're left with less choice when you have to move around the area.

Doom Eternal is such a departure from any other Doom game in how it plays that I think the Doom tag hurts it more than helps engage fans of pervious Doom games.

The story so also comes off a try hard with humanity having to pay penance and you trying to save them by going against your own destiny.
 
A

abacab driver

Banned
Ulysses 31 said:
Playing through this on nightmare(just got the Ballista) and I'm not a fan of the game level design. A lot of the structures in this universe don't make sense if there wasn't someone around that could double jump and dash.
Click to expand...

Newsflash: literally any game with double jumps/dashes (or wall runs/wall jumps/grappling hooks, etc) has contained level design based around those abilities since the 1980s.
 
Ulysses 31

Ulysses 31

Member
abacab driver said:
Newsflash: literally any game with double jumps/dashes (or wall runs/wall jumps/grappling hooks, etc) has contained level design based around those abilities since the 1980s.
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Yeah and there's no in-universe reason for those levels to exist with those things in Doom Eternal while Doom 2016's levels presented are more lived in, less gamey world design. It's just incongruent IMO with the more serious lore Eternal tries to establish around the universe and Doom Slayer.
 
treemk

treemk

Banned
GigaBowser said:
I don't think there's very many skilled gamers who have played through Eternal and Ancient Gods walking away with the opinion that 2016 is better or even very close.

That's mostly the crowd who never git good and rage quit on Eternal early on.
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Exactly, playing Eternal at a high skill level is a thing of beauty. In comparison 2016 is a completely forgettable and uninspired run of the mill shooter experience. Also just because you are "good at shooters" doesn't mean you are automatically good at Eternal, I remember the first big arena in cultist base where I got my teeth kicked in and died probably 20 times. I didn't yet understand how the game is supposed to be played and that is the first arena that really starts to test your knowledge of using all game mechanics together. I don't see how anyone can fly around the map weapon swapping like a god and not have a huge grin the entire time, chances are they never figured out how to do that. Every mechanic is well thought out and highly integrated with the entire experience.
 
O

OZ9000

Banned
treemk said:
Well it's worth noting that horde mode, the DLC, and master levels were al designed to lean towards players that could not be killed by anything in the base game. I like all of the above mostly because of how it changes the game and I've cleared the base game dozens of times.
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I enjoyed the master levels.

But I found the final level of horde mode incredibly frustrating.

I wasn't a fan of the new enemy additions. The enemies in Doom Eternal are incredibly aggressive as it is. How the hell are you supposed to kill 2 mauruders that are buffered plus a load of other enemies in the arena?

I've actually found a mod which instantly improves the enjoyment of DE.

This mods allows your chainsaw to fully replenish your ammo (which is how it should be as far as I'm concerned)
www.nexusmods.com

More Ammo per Chainsaw Kill

Tired of seeing 'Low Ammo' and needing to chainsaw frequently? Use this mod to get back to full ammo after every chainsaw kill.
www.nexusmods.com www.nexusmods.com

Now I can actually focus on jumping and shooting as opposed to worrying about ammo management. Yes, you still need to chainsaw - but no where near as frequently. The constant chainsawing in DE pissed me off. That said it is still one of my favourite games to play.

Another mandatory mod:
www.nexusmods.com

Kaito's Gritty Dark ReShade

This ReShade attempts to make the game look more gritty and dark like 2016.To use this mod you must install RESHADE, IT DOES NOT REQUIRE THE MOD INJECTOR. There are a lot of ReShade instal
www.nexusmods.com www.nexusmods.com

This improves the ugly graphics of the game by tenfold. The game looks much more closer to Doom 2016.
 
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Apocryphon

Apocryphon

Member
Eternal isn't a bad game by a long shot, but it isn't the best shooter ever made. It's also barely Doom at all.

It has a God awful artstyle. It's not the colour, Amid Evil did colour perfectly... it just looks so generic. Doom 2016 might not have the speed of Eternal, but it's a far more aestheticly pleasing game.

The added combat mechanics are fine, and they set the game apart from everything else, but it also becomes tedious as fuck as the encounters are literally designed around weapon swapping. Gone are are the days of pistol starting every map, or doing shotgun only runs. It isn't Doom, it's some ADHD nightmare.

The lore is utter dogshit. Doom 2016s plot also wasn't up to much, but it was more interesting and made more sense than what they thought they were doing with Eternal. They want to build out some Diablo-esque world? Fine.. but what they've given us so far is fucking terrible.

Some people hate the platforming and I get that. It isn't great. It isn't Doom. It also isn't the worst thing in the world. Amid Evil did it better though and Eternal would still effectively be the same game without it. It's just a lazy implementation meant to break up the tedious slog through combat arenas.

Purple goo? Get fucked.

Urdak and the Maykrs? Fucking trash design.

Then music is good, but 2016 was better.. hell even Quake 2 was better. But it still beats most other games.

The flying castle in the sky? 🤣

The DLC was meh. No new weapons, awful modifiers on enemies, same dogshit aesthetics.. save for the first level of Ancient God's part 1. I liked the look of that level.

What gets me most is that the people who love the game are exactly like the people that adore Titanfall 2. They are adamant that its the best shooter ever but fail to articulate why, outside of "you gotta get gud". There are harder games than Doom fucking Eternal, Amid Evil is one, but yes, it requires a certain degree of skill on higher difficulties. But how does that make it the best shooter ever? At least Dark Souls has a great artstyle and great lore supporting the challenge.

We'll see what happens with Quake. I'm betting they streamline the bullshit and make something far simpler than the overengineered mess they made with Eternal.

Then again, I own the game on PC, PS4 Pro, Series X, and Switch, so maybe I like it more than I realize 😂

Somebody needs to explain why they made secret areas so fucking obvious though? It's like Doom for dummies.
 
Apocryphon

Apocryphon

Member
treemk said:
Not as confused as you though :D
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I'm ok with being confused bru. I'm still able to articulate my thoughts clearly enough where some of you guys can't. But that's the great thing about opinions; we're all entitled to one and it doesn't have to conform with the opinions of others.
 
GigaBowser

GigaBowser

The bear of bad news
treemk said:
Exactly, playing Eternal at a high skill level is a thing of beauty. In comparison 2016 is a completely forgettable and uninspired run of the mill shooter experience. Also just because you are "good at shooters" doesn't mean you are automatically good at Eternal, I remember the first big arena in cultist base where I got my teeth kicked in and died probably 20 times. I didn't yet understand how the game is supposed to be played and that is the first arena that really starts to test your knowledge of using all game mechanics together. I don't see how anyone can fly around the map weapon swapping like a god and not have a huge grin the entire time, chances are they never figured out how to do that. Every mechanic is well thought out and highly integrated with the entire experience.
Click to expand...
Some games with really deep gameplay require good gamers to get the most out of them like Eternal.

More casual gamers will never undestand.
 
Apocryphon

Apocryphon

Member
GigaBowser said:
Some games with really deep gameplay require good gamers to get the most out of them like Eternal.

More casual gamers will never undestand.
Click to expand...
"really deep gameplay" 🤣

Eternal isn't Divinity Original Sin 2, Dota2, Crusader Kings 2, or Star Citizen bru. It's Mario Doom x Overwatch. Get over yourself you elite clown.
 
GigaBowser

GigaBowser

The bear of bad news
Apocryphon said:
"really deep gameplay" 🤣

Eternal isn't Divinity Original Sin 2, Dota2, Crusader Kings 2, or Star Citizen bru. It's Mario Doom x Overwatch. Get over yourself you elite clown.
Click to expand...
Are you actually comparing games with menu based combat to FPS?

lol
 
Apocryphon

Apocryphon

Member
GigaBowser said:
Are you actually comparing games with menu based combat to FPS?

lol
Click to expand...
No, but those are examples of games where you could legitimately say they contain "really deep gameplay" mechanics. I get that you like the systems added to Eternal, and yes it's all relative, but you're being hyperbolic.

What is it that makes Eternal better than every other shooter? The challenge? Having to balance the mechanics? I mean, fair enough, but a game is the sum of all its parts and Eternal is lacking in many other areas.

If you'd said Eternal has the best combat mechanics in a shooter and left it there, that'd be perfectly fine.. but I just don't understand the claims that it's night and day better than every other first person shooter. People say the same thing about Titanfall 2 and Half Life 2 and I disagree with those too.

My main issue with Eternal, despite being fond of the game, is that it isn't what I wanted from a Doom game. I think Prodeus is a better Doom game than Eternal, and I think that Dusk and Amid Evil are better overall FPS experiences.
 
GigaBowser

GigaBowser

The bear of bad news
Apocryphon said:
No, but those are examples of games where you could legitimately say they contain "really deep gameplay" mechanics. I get that you like the systems added to Eternal, and yes it's all relative, but you're being hyperbolic.

What is it that makes Eternal better than every other shooter? The challenge? Having to balance the mechanics? I mean, fair enough, but a game is the sum of all its parts and Eternal is lacking in many other areas.

If you'd said Eternal has the best combat mechanics in a shooter and left it there, that'd be perfectly fine.. but I just don't understand the claims that it's night and day better than every other first person shooter. People say the same thing about Titanfall 2 and Half Life 2 and I disagree with those too.

My main issue with Eternal, despite being fond of the game, is that it isn't what I wanted from a Doom game. I think Prodeus is a better Doom game than Eternal, and I think that Dusk and Amid Evil are better overall FPS experiences.
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Uhhhh yes you were comparing games with menu based combat to Eternal. They're not even the same genre lol

What separates Eternal apart from other fps is the depth of the combat with all of the options in movement, traversal, gunplay, feedback, enemies, difficulty, and AI.

These things are what you consider in an fps when you're talking about depth.............. not games in different genres with menu based combat.
 
Apocryphon

Apocryphon

Member
GigaBowser said:
Uhhhh yes you were comparing games with menu based combat to Eternal. They're not even the same genre lol

What separates Eternal apart from other fps is the depth of the combat with all of the options in movement, traversal, gunplay, feedback, enemies, difficulty, and AI.

These things are what you consider in an fps when you're talking about depth.............. not games in different genres with menu based combat.
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Halo has better AI than Etetnal though.

And no, those things are what YOU consider in FPS games when you're looking for depth, but you ain't the main character bru.

Let me ask you this then in the spirit of healthy discussion; what was your favorite FPS game before Eternal was released? Rage 2? 🤣
 
dcx4610

dcx4610

Member
Gameplay wise, I think the crown still goes to the original DOOM/DOOM II. If you play it with a modern port and modern WASD controls, it's incredible how fluid, fast, chaotic and satisfying it is. I've recently been playing through all of the id and Raven Soft games and I was shocked at how addicting DOOM was to this day. I couldn't wait to get off work to play another few levels every night. For a game to hold up that way is incredible. Special shout out to Heretic and Hexen which are straight fantastic.

I really liked DOOM Eternal though and I'm not going to knock it. I'm not ready to say the best ever though.
 
Trazyn the Infinite

Trazyn the Infinite

Member
Apocryphon said:
Halo has better AI than Etetnal though.

And no, those things are what YOU consider in FPS games when you're looking for depth, but you ain't the main character bru.

Let me ask you this then in the spirit of healthy discussion; what was your favorite FPS game before Eternal was released? Rage 2? 🤣
Click to expand...

No. Those things are just, objectively, things you look for when referring to depth in an FPS game. You have zero interest in healthy discussions and just want to dismiss anything that doesn’t feed into your opinion.
 
Apocryphon

Apocryphon

Member
Trazyn the Infinite said:
No. Those things are just, objectively, things you look for when referring to depth in an FPS game. You have zero interest in healthy discussions and just want to dismiss anything that doesn’t feed into your opinion.
Click to expand...
It's a nonsense list that allegedly equates to depth. Except it doesn't. Look at the list:

AI... as if preset pathfinding and fancy transition animations is AI. FEAR had actually great AI that was task based with no preset paths and enemies that retreat and regroup to preserve their own lives instead of focusing on dealing damage to the player like a robot. Halo works in a similar way and has long been noted for its enemy AI behaviour. Holding up Eternal as a shining example of enemy AI is just naivety or ignorance.

Enemies... 2016 has more or less the same number of unique enemy types as Eternal, Half Life 2, and Wolfenstein New Order. Somebody's going to have to break down for me how Eternal provides more "depth" in this area than other games because I just don't see it.

Movement... This is where Eternal scores points with a lot of people. It's understandable. They took the type of movement we have seen in games like top down twin stick shooters and brought it into first person. It's hard to argue against it outside of it doesn't feel very faithful to the series which is the only perceptibly negative thing I have said about it.

Traversal... I'm not even sure I understand this one. If it's the platforming sections then I'd argue that games like Amid Evil require more skull in this area and as such provide more "depth"?

Difficulty... Eternal isn't actually that difficult though. It certainly doesn't offer added depth over other notoriously challenging games on higher difficulties. Play Dusk, Amid Evil or fucking Halo 2 if you want to play seriously challenging games. Ancient God's Part 1 provided more of a challenge due to added modifiers, but it doesn't represent Doom Eternal as a whole. The Master Levels are good, but they aren't any harder than the originals. I guess it's nice that they are included!?

Feedback... You're going to need to explain this one to me like I'm 5. Explain how combat feedback in Eternal differs from 2016 or any of the other great FPS games we have available to us and how that adds gameplay depth.

I'm disagreeing with things I disagree with. People are entitled to whatever opinion they like, something you would realize if you actually read the thread through in full. I get that people like this game, and I don't have a strong opinion on them loving it, but I'm entitled to ask questions and get them to articulate their thoughts. Subjectivity being what it is, there's no way this volume of people were all going to agree. But why should we tolerate the "get gud" elitist bullshit that the Eternal-stans spew so dickishly? Look at the thread, there are lots of folks who disagree, it isn't just little old me.

I take the same issue with Titanfall 2, and I have repeatedly asked somebody to please articulate the why because while it's flashy, I don't see any major redeeming qualities outside of BT ad a character and some interesting level design. It certainly doesn’t have good AI, it doesn't have interesting lore, and the combat isn't a million miles removed from the Call of Duty games.

If you don't appreciate people disagreeing with you're opinions, you're in the wrong fucking cave bru. Did I say something horrid about your favourite pew pew game?

Edit: And no offense, but I have bought this game on 4 different platforms and played through it a shittonne. I'll voice my honest opinion about it all I want ta. Being told that "casuals" don't get it when you disagree with somebody else assessment that it's the best thing since sliced bread is irritating as shit. I put my hours in and came out the other side with a markedly different and more critical opinion. So what?
 
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Apocryphon

Apocryphon

Member
Shifty said:
Press a switch.

"You have solved one forty-seventh of the puzzle on the seven portals."

iu


But, if they figure that part out, could be top.
Click to expand...
I'd take a modern remake of Hexen but they'd need to cut back on that bullshit. I'll play the remaster when it hits too but I'll be using a fucking guide. Good game, but stressful as hell.
 
SkylineRKR

SkylineRKR

Member
SpiceRacz said:
Played Half Life 2 for the first time a few months ago and can confirm HL2 is overrated. There's better FPS games pre and post Half Life 2. It was never the GOAT in the genre.
Click to expand...

HL2 is def. overrated. In 2004 its physics were amazing but behind that its a fairly basic FPS. The gunplay and AI felt bad, even in 2004. There is way too much vehicle gameplay, which isn't even that good. And then its gravity puzzles one after another. When Orange Box released on 360, I think HL2 was barely 3 years old. It felt so archaic lol.

When I play Doom 2016 which is 6 years old, or even the first FEAR or Halo 3. I can still enjoy those. But HL2 I have hard time doing so and even in 2007 already.
 
Himuro

Himuro

Member
SkylineRKR said:
HL2 is def. overrated. In 2004 its physics were amazing but behind that its a fairly basic FPS. The gunplay and AI felt bad, even in 2004. There is way too much vehicle gameplay, which isn't even that good. And then its gravity puzzles one after another. When Orange Box released on 360, I think HL2 was barely 3 years old. It felt so archaic lol.

When I play Doom 2016 which is 6 years old, or even the first FEAR or Halo 3. I can still enjoy those. But HL2 I have hard time doing so and even in 2007 already.
Click to expand...
I struggled to get through HL2 multiple times. It was the first fps I ever bought. No wonder I didn't get into the genre until now.
 
Ulysses 31

Ulysses 31

Member
Apocryphon said:
I'd take a modern remake of Hexen but they'd need to cut back on that bullshit. I'll play the remaster when it hits too but I'll be using a fucking guide. Good game, but stressful as hell.
Click to expand...
You don't need no remaster on PC with the Doomsday mod, unless you really want to play it on consoles.

Be sure to set video to 1080p60

 
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Apocryphon

Apocryphon

Member
Ulysses 31 said:
You don't need no remaster on PC with the Doomsday mod, unless you really want to play it on consoles.

Be sure to set video to 1080p60

Click to expand...

It's been a minute since I played the game. I will check this out later on today. Ta!

I do think a remaster is coming from Bluepoint though and a port is available via Xbox Insider on PC at the moment but I don't know much about it. Still, Hexen deserves some love because as frustrating as it can be, the world and atmosphere are great.

Do you have any experience with Brutal Hexen?
 
treemk

treemk

Banned
Apocryphon said:
Difficulty... Eternal isn't actually that difficult though. It certainly doesn't offer added depth over other notoriously challenging games on higher difficulties. Play Dusk, Amid Evil or fucking Halo 2 if you want to play seriously challenging games. Ancient God's Part 1 provided more of a challenge due to added modifiers, but it doesn't represent Doom Eternal as a whole. The Master Levels are good, but they aren't any harder than the originals. I guess it's nice that they are included!?
Click to expand...

Unlike Halo 2 Eternal is a difficult but fair game which is a cornerstone of good gameplay. Anyone can say anything is easy so let's see some receipts, clear a master level on nightmare and post it uncut.
 
Apocryphon

Apocryphon

Member
treemk said:
Unlike Halo 2 Eternal is a difficult but fair game which is a cornerstone of good gameplay. Anyone can say anything is easy so let's see some receipts, clear a master level on nightmare and post it uncut.
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We can do that, but let's remember that I'm not the one that equates Doom Eternals 'difficulty' as the linchpin of it being the "best first person shooter ever". I've said it before and I'll say it again, games are the sum of their parts.

And since you're the one championing thr game for its challenge, I expect we can get the same contribution from you?

Also, as if the limited number of available Master Levels and a specific difficulty setting proves your point. id scaled the challenge up for Ancient God's Part 1, then scaled it back for Part 2. Do we count the DLC and the main game as the game your championing as the best ever? Do you like anything else about the game and it's design outside of "I'm shit hot because I completed it on Nightmare and the rest of you plebs just don't get it"?
 
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