S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
PR speak. It sounds like virtual surround no matter how he phrases it.
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Dolby Atmos Can Also Support Hundreds of Objects Like PS5’s Tempest Audio Engine, Says Dolby
PR speak. It sounds like virtual surround no matter how he phrases it.
CJY
Banned
From my understanding, 3D spatial audio is a different thing than Virtual Surround Sound. VSS is a subset of 3D spatial audio so VSS can be achieved through these new audio engines, but they aren't anything like old VSS which tries to simulate multiple speakers from only two.
Maybe it's the same, but just newer and better.
I'll hold my hands up and say I'm not educated enough on audio and sound tech to know, so my understanding could be completely wrong.
Woo-Fu
Banned
All surround is virtual, doesn't matter how many speakers you have, there is still computation going on. As far as positional audio for gaming goes headphones win every single time. It doesn't matter how much money you spent on your speakers or how many of them you have.
Even for music the same amount of money spent on speakers or headphones you get better fidelity out of the headphones.
As far as what Sony is doing with positional audio on the PS5, no it isn't anything new to the field of audio. They're saving money on Dolby Headphone/Atmos licenses.
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S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Yes headphones are the budget option.
Woo-Fu
Banned
At any pricepoint headphones give better fidelity, budget doesn't matter. Even sound engineers who have total control of their environment and a profit motive to use the best possible tech still use headphones over speakers.
SonGoku
Member
That's not true, there's many advantages to Sony approach
Cheaper than a expensive home theater but the best experience for PS5, the gold standard as Cerny put it
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
It seems like they are aiming at headphones at the moment because it is cheaper to do so.
Swaganizonda
Banned
KlickKlack
Banned
Sony too..... great for Sony users
on xbox since years
on xbox since years
SonGoku
Member
Nowhere near the same, devs have to specifically develop for it to add hundreds of sources, with every sound having a 3D effect running complex algorithmsSony too..... great for Sony users
on xbox since years
Theres no game currently out that features anything like it, because there isn't a standard for devs to target since only a fraction of the users have a dolby atmos peripherals
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MisterXDTV
Member
They won't listen to you. Even though you are right....
BattleScar
Member
Dude, Cerny's been talking about using ray-traced audio since the first bloody Wired article last fucking year!Xbox also has a dedicated audio chip and their Spatial Audio is similar to Sony's 3D audio. What Sony is behind on is Project Acoustics and Audio Ray Tracing.
Project Acoustics - Wave acoustics engine for 3D interactive experiences by Microsoft
If you want to read more about this https://github.com/microsoft/ProjectAcoustics https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cognitive-services/acoustics/what-is-acoustics Project Acoustics is a wave acoustics engine for 3D interactive experiences. It models wave effects like occlusion, obstruction...www.neogaf.com
This isn't a zero sum game here. Sony can have Audio ray tracing too. Microsoft don't fucking own the technology.
nikolino840
Member
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Don't be silly, it would be the same reply if it was DTS 3D Surround Sound
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
And Microsoft showed a demo in March last year and have been talking about it even before that. The project started in 2012, before Xbox One launch. Parts of that tech were also used in Gears of War 4(2016).
GamesAreFun
Banned
Because theyr'e cheap, and won't license Dolby Atmos. The long presentation describing their 3D Audio is just a bargain-basement version of the Dolby technology, and only sounds impressive because Cerny bamboozled people talking about their ears.
BattleScar
Member
Like I said, its not a zero sum game. I'm sure Microsoft have done excellent work, but that doesn't take anything away from Sony.
Why are you trying to undermine Sony's tech and their efforts in this space?
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
If you go back to my post I said Sony's 3D Audio is like Xbox's Spatial Audio. But Audio Ray Tracing is a different thing, thats why I said Sony is behind in that(in Audio Ray Tracing).
Burkatron81
Member
I think Sony presence approach will resemble something a bit like the below audio tracks. Try them using headphones and close your eyes. The brain does a great job of making you think you're in an actual room with depth. The knock on the door in the second one actually made me think it was in my house. It's a pretty cool effect.
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SonGoku
Member
False, if you bothered to watch the presentation you'd know theres inherent advantages to Sonys aproach
bilderberg
Member
WIll ps5's 3d audio work with non ps5 games? What I like about Atmos on pc is that it just works with every game.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Microsoft uses Dolby Atmos, DTS:X and Windows Sonic for its Spatial Audio(Xbox's version of 3D Audio).
SonGoku
Member
No, this has to be inplemented by devs and is more advanced than your average PC game with atmos support
bilderberg
Member
i dont know why though. Games dont need atmos support to benefit from using atmos.
ZehDon
Gold Member
I remember back to special features on The Lord of The Rings: The Return of the King, where the sound-mixers were discussing the battle of Pelennor fields - the huge siege of the Gondor capital. They highlighted that having "hundreds of sounds" just created noise, and was incredibly difficult to actually watch, as you ears were drawing attention to the one or two key sounds they picked up on. So, they just pulled out all the sound, watched the scenes mute, and then added back in the sounds that matched the visuals. They ended up with a dozen or so sounds in any given battle scene - despite literally hundreds of thousands of horses, elephants, trolls, and other creatures all fighting around the camera. For example, they discovered that only adding sound to the footsteps from the elephant's front two feet was enough to convince the audience, and prevented an avalanche of footsteps from covering the soundscape. Sometimes, less is more.
I think the power of the Tempest Engine will be its ability to produce binaural audio from non-binaural recordings. That's actually really cool, and a fantastic feature that should get people excited. But focusing in on "hundreds of sounds" just goes back to the sound-mixers in The Return of the King.
I think the power of the Tempest Engine will be its ability to produce binaural audio from non-binaural recordings. That's actually really cool, and a fantastic feature that should get people excited. But focusing in on "hundreds of sounds" just goes back to the sound-mixers in The Return of the King.
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SonGoku
Member
Because the results are different
Their objective is to have hundreds of sources, with every sound having a 3D effect running complex algorithms, there are no games out that feature anywhere near this level of complexity.
bilderberg
Member
that works for a movie when you're cutting around to many different locations and perspectives quickly. A person playing a game, occupying a single space in time from a singular pov, isn't going to get lost in too many sounds.
Shin
Banned
Normally a person quotes or elaborates what is better* to build upon their claim, which is rather absurd.
Yes Sony makes audio products, I believe their first product was related to audio, hell even my first electronics was - My First Walkman.
But for the longest of time we've heard that the department don't work together much, even to this day you can see it in their products.
There's a lot of things under Sony music, but none of it seem to have contributed to PlayStation's "Tempest" solution or it would have been mentioned.
To discredit a company who's sole/primary business is audio based one way or the other versus whatever solution PlayStation cooked up is either ignorant or just plain stupid.
ZehDon
Gold Member
I disagree, to a point. I think, for a game, it's more about sound queues assisting gameplay. The less number of sounds, the more actionable they become. The obvious examples are big bombastic First Person Shooters, but let's go a little different, and use Resident Evil 2 remake for an example. Creeping through the Police Station, a lot of the sound in the game... doesn't actually exist. When you walk through a door into a new room, the sound from the previous space is pared back enormously. This is to ensure the sounds you're hearing line up with the immediacy of the gameplay. You're not having to pick through the different noises of the zombies in the different close-by rooms, trying to figure out which ones you need to be aware of. Because of the dynamic sound mix, when you hear something, you know its important. I also chose RE2 remake because it features a software version of the kind of 3D Audio that Sony is baking into the hardware for the PS5, so I feel like it represents a pretty solid example of how best to utilise this type of system.
SonGoku
Member
RaySoft
Member
Really? Can you support that claim? It's easy to slap a logo on something and everyone thinks it's great.. "it got the logo, It's fine"
The point is, like Cerny said, audio never gets first pick of the table.. Dolby has ofc some fine tech, but to produce results it also needs it's cycles.
On PS5, they have their own block on the APU. Dolby uses CPU cycles. They can ofcourse compare with tempest, but that would need more CPU cycles..
Does the "balanced" word start to sink in now?
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Insane Metal
Member
Nice, but how much resource they have to use of the CPU to get those hundreds of sources?
farmerboy
Member
You'd think people get this but they don't. And of course Dolby can do this, but there isn't a dedicated Dolby chip in the xbox.
I was most disappointed when I realised the ps4 was no where near the ps3 for audio. Tempest will be amazing.
The amount of power thats been dedicated to audio on the PS5 is actually pretty significant, I don't think people quite understand how much ~110 GFLOPS is as its a kinda abstract number. To put it in perspective, its the same as running a Zen2 core @ 3.5Ghz at 100% utilisation just for audio.
RaySoft
Member
Forget the numbers man.. Let them rather experiece it when it's available.
People are jumping all over the place nowadays. Let them scream and have "their" moment now. They will be silenced next year.
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RiccochetJ
Gold Member
In case anyone thinks that there's a need to buy headphones that have a "Dolby Atmos Ready " or anything on the side of the box:
developer.dolby.com
Dolby Atmos for Headphones
Dolby Atmos for Headphones allows you to experience Dolby Atmos (for Xbox and Windows 10) through any set of headphones.
developer.dolby.com
Team Andromeda
Member
Yes but you need to the speaker set up or the right headphone to get the benefits.
too much eslim
Member
Sony just slapped a cool name on it and people are eating it up. Sony is helping pushing the medium it isn't groundbreaking. It's already been done.
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
No it isnt, its completly diverent, watch Digital Foundry again.Xbox also has a dedicated audio chip and their Spatial Audio is similar to Sony's 3D audio. What Sony is behind on is Project Acoustics and Audio Ray Tracing.
Project Acoustics - Wave acoustics engine for 3D interactive experiences by Microsoft
If you want to read more about this https://github.com/microsoft/ProjectAcoustics https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cognitive-services/acoustics/what-is-acoustics Project Acoustics is a wave acoustics engine for 3D interactive experiences. It models wave effects like occlusion, obstruction...
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
Dude it is a dedicated chip, it does not use the CPU, the comments here from Xboxfanboys are just amusing...realy they are. Most of them have no clue where they are talking about.
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Dolby Atmos’s Dev About PS5’s 3D audio "Tempest Engine"
Q- Is it true Dolby Atmos is capped at 32 objects? No, that is incorrect. As a technology, Dolby Atmos can support hundreds of simultaneous objects. That being said, we fall back on sage advice from developers of some of the first Atmos games: Objects are a fantastic tool, but restraint should...