MilkLizard
Member
Those robots at the Illuminatis place, were they straight up Ultron or something else?
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Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness | Spoiler Thread
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Ulysses 31
Member
It might be that Marvel/DC is his niche with his history of selling comic books in the past. He's covered a lot Dr. Who, Game of Thrones, Star Wars and Star Trek in the past too. Shows/franchises that have declined. He's seeing signs that new Lord of the Rings will be repeat that process. Being familiar with the source does not automatically make you a good critic but it's an edge over someone unfamiliar with the material. He's no filmmaker so he sticks to mostly critiquing the writing, not the cinematography. Plotholes can ruin the investment in a movie if they're big enough, it's something worth pointing out IMO. When you've seen wokeness ruin many beloved childhood shows, I can see why one would bitch so much about it.
Seems like you think he's just grifting so let me ask you who do you think has genuine critiques of modern Marvel/Disney productions?
He said something like eventually more than half of female heroes. Look it up.
If it's at the expense of men then it seems ideology driven to me.
All those things in isolation might not seem so bad, and it could be that it's just supposed to be funny and endearing but I doubt it when I see the direction of the MCU.
Seems like whataboutism, Captain Marvel is a superhero which for me gets held to a higher standard than 80s/90s action heroes.
Arnie using the civilian as a meatshield in total recall was a bit shocking but also obviously done for laughs with the way it was filmed, Captain Marvel laughing when she was killing so many has worse moral implications for her character.
non superhero women outpunching and pushing men around twice their size is what I'm talking about. This is not a specific Marvel issue these days though.
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Yes, they were Ultron sentries.
Bear in mind that this was another universe, where Ultron didn't go batshit crazy.
sol_bad
Member
Nah, I'll let you find the quote for me.
Ulysses 31
Member
I believe in your search skills.
DKehoe
Member
When you say he's also covered Dr Who, Game of Thrones, Star Wars and Star Trek do you think that shows he covers a lot of things? Do you feel like you get a broad range of coverage from his videos? Is range even something you're looking for from a critic? Maybe we're just looking for different things here.
You don't have to be a filmmaker to know about a range of films and the techniques that go into making them. A good critic understands the film making process and can speak to it in a way that informs their audience. To me, someone not being able to talk about the various elements that go into making a film what it is is far more limiting than knowing how Batman's utility belt is meant to work or whatever. Focusing on discussing plotholes and ignoring all those other elements seems like such a narrow, unfulfilling view to take. If your thing is just that you know the original material really well and your target audience is people who also know the source material really well then all you're doing is telling them things they already know so they can feel like they're smart. I want to come away from reading/listening to a critic having learned things I didn't know before, to have gained a deeper understanding of things. It'd be one thing if a critic had a focus in what they covered but did so in a really in-depth way. But those videos just feel so shallow. So a narrow range and shallow depth feels like the worst of both worlds.
I think when you submerge yourself wholly in the culture war it can seem like everything is about that. But the vast majority of people just don't care about that stuff. But these outrage YouTubers are so obsessed with whether something is or isn't woke (or on the flipside if it's "problematic") that for a bunch of them it's actually taken priority over the actual quality of the film. Whether or not something is good or not becomes secondary to it being woke or not. And that's how you end up with stuff like this:
Asking who I think is the best reviewer for Disney/Marvel stuff kinda feels like asking which food critic gives the best perspective on the McDonalds menu. It feels like we're at a point where our popular culture is becoming more and more focused on a small number of franchises and there seems to be a growing number of people who are unwilling to consume anything that goes beyond those. So perhaps it's more important than ever that we have critics who can help us discover things we otherwise may not be aware of rather than only talking about the biggest properties over and over again. Personally, my go to critic is Mark Kermode. He covers everything that comes out each week and does so with a great knowledge of the medium. I don't always agree with him all of the time but I like hearing his perspective on stuff.
Ulysses 31
Member
I don't know what you call a lot, it's not just Marvel stuff he covers. But I don't watch all his videos, mainly the Star Wars/Star Trek/Marvel ones. I see Nerdrotic has the one who specializes in those areas. If I want to see reviews of things outside that I go to AngryJoe or RLM.When you say he's also covered Dr Who, Game of Thrones, Star Wars and Star Trek do you think that shows he covers a lot of things? Do you feel like you get a broad range of coverage from his videos? Is range even something you're looking for from a critic? Maybe we're just looking for different things here.
You don't have to be a filmmaker to know about a range of films and the techniques that go into making them. A good critic understands the film making process and can speak to it in a way that informs their audience. To me, someone not being able to talk about the various elements that go into making a film what it is is far more limiting than knowing how Batman's utility belt is meant to work or whatever. Focusing on discussing plotholes and ignoring all those other elements seems like such a narrow, unfulfilling view to take. If your thing is just that you know the original material really well and your target audience is people who also know the source material really well then all you're doing is telling them things they already know so they can feel like they're smart. I want to come away from reading/listening to a critic having learned things I didn't know before, to have gained a deeper understanding of things. It'd be one thing if a critic had a focus in what they covered but did so in a really in-depth way. But those videos just feel so shallow. So a narrow range and shallow depth feels like the worst of both worlds.
I think when you submerge yourself wholly in the culture war it can seem like everything is about that. But the vast majority of people just don't care about that stuff. But these outrage YouTubers are so obsessed with whether something is or isn't woke (or on the flipside if it's "problematic") that for a bunch of them it's actually taken priority over the actual quality of the film. Whether or not something is good or not becomes secondary to it being woke or not. And that's how you end up with stuff like this:
I don't really see why he should go into critiquing filmmaking as a whole when his issues are usually with the quality of the writing. You can have the best actors, sets, special effects, cinematography, soundtrack and directing but bad writing can make it all fall flat on its face. I don't think the focus on writing can really be called narrow when it's practically the heart and soul of movie/series. He's no Roger Ebert and he doesn't pretend to be. I think most of the stuff outside the writing is usually good enough so I'm not looking for critiques in those areas.
What exactly do you mean by shallow videos? In the Dr. Strange one he points out how Defender Strange is seen as a betrayer when in fact he saved the multiverse. Or Dr. Strange saying he agrees with what Wanda did in Westview(which opens the door to a lot of implications). I think those are significant things to mention when it comes to character development and the writing and not nit-picky shallow things.
Well, it also kinda feels like that criticisms of Disney/Marvel is quickly dismissed as bad faith/grifting when those productions definitely do have things worth criticizing. It's up to viewers to also analyse the quality of the criticisms levied and determine if they're coming from a genuine place or not and not just to mindlessly agree with it.
No doubt there are people who just agree with him without giving it any thought and those are no better than people enjoying Marvel/Disney stuff just for the fancy special effects/spectacle without giving any thought to the writing and world building.
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sol_bad
Member
You brought it up, you need to prove it.
Amiga
Member
FYI, a difference between MCU and comics is that Ultron is a Dr.Pym creation, the story was shifted to Stark.
Ironically I think Pym was played down in the MCU because his story arc in comics is kind of dark.
strange headache
Banned
Nerdrotic is an avid comic book reader, figurine collector and he used to own a comic book store. Dude knows his pop culture stuff.
His criticism clearly comes from a place of care.
His criticism clearly comes from a place of care.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I like the implications of this. Thor's dream said that the stone in Vision's head is going to lead to problems.
In this universe, assuming Ultron went according to plan, there was no need to create Vision, and perhaps that allowed them to protect the Mind Stone from Thanos and keep him from completing the Infinity Gauntlet.
In the flashback to a defeated Thanos, did he have the Mind Stone in the gauntlet?
It also means Tony was right about the idea of a suit of armor protecting the world. Even though he fucked it up in the main universe.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Yea the revenue tab of his YouTube account.
Neolombax
Member
Mixed feelings with this movie. I enjoyed it but I liked the first one way more. Didn't like how magic was depicted in this movie, its basically flinging around balls of energy, not very creative. Also the universe where they found the Illuminati, with the trees and flowers in the city, looks too cartoonish for me.
I dunno, I expected more. Loved Wanda in this though. Thought her acting was great in this.
I dunno, I expected more. Loved Wanda in this though. Thought her acting was great in this.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Is Doctor Strange ever going to become the sorcerer supreme? We are 4 movies in now that have him in it.
ManaByte
Gold Member
He was at the end of his first movie.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Oh yeah? It's been a while since I've seen that one. Nevermind.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Wong got it on a technicality because Strange was blipped for five years.
YukiOnna
Member
The movie was all right.
Some of the major plot developments just ruined it. I don't like how they utilize characters in relation to the multiverse. Especially not when you introduce them only to kill them 5 seconds later, I despise that kind of thing. Mordo's inclusion feels pointless for me when they already had something seemingly set up with him, just a lot of questions in handling for me in relation to the reveals.
That said, how they handled Wanda as an antagonist was good. I still hate her and everything about her from a role and character standpoint since her introduction into the MCU, but I could agree with the depiction here. Hope that's the end of her, but probably not. They completely redeemed Strange for me in terms of liking him, glad they continued with that they had from the end of Spiderman NWH. Chavez wasn't annoying and the depiction of the other universes and sorcerer battles were nice. The structure and pace of the movie was weird where it felt like clips, but at least the horror elements were well done.
All in all, just wish it came together better and I didn't dislike the grander plot points since that's what I look forward to most. Oh well at least Incursions finally got proper intro.
Some of the major plot developments just ruined it. I don't like how they utilize characters in relation to the multiverse. Especially not when you introduce them only to kill them 5 seconds later, I despise that kind of thing. Mordo's inclusion feels pointless for me when they already had something seemingly set up with him, just a lot of questions in handling for me in relation to the reveals.
That said, how they handled Wanda as an antagonist was good. I still hate her and everything about her from a role and character standpoint since her introduction into the MCU, but I could agree with the depiction here. Hope that's the end of her, but probably not. They completely redeemed Strange for me in terms of liking him, glad they continued with that they had from the end of Spiderman NWH. Chavez wasn't annoying and the depiction of the other universes and sorcerer battles were nice. The structure and pace of the movie was weird where it felt like clips, but at least the horror elements were well done.
All in all, just wish it came together better and I didn't dislike the grander plot points since that's what I look forward to most. Oh well at least Incursions finally got proper intro.
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boutrosinit
Street Fighter IV World Champion
Yeah. I felt the same way. Who gives a shit about Black Bolt?
ResilientBanana
Member
Just watched yesterday, can't believe people complained about the same-sex couple that got sucked into another dimension. That aside, I loved every bit of it as it had Raimi's name all over it, not to mention the Danny Elfman score. It was a fun ride. I'm just confused as to where the overall story is going.
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Ulysses 31
Member
Really? No issues with how quick he was dealt when he's supposed to be one of the smartest in the MCU and how others just stood around spectating?
If it was supposed to be the case that he was just a weak multiverse variant then the movie doesn't really make that clear.
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ManaByte
Gold Member
Look up Hickman's Avengers and New Avengers run.
Ulysses 31
Member
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Tams
Member
Just saw it and managed to keep myself away from any info about it.
It's fantastic. Lot's of things I wasn't expecting, especially the horror. And I don't usually like horror, but this was good.
The overall story was cliched, but I don't know how they could have done it better.
The only thing that really bothered me was the initiates seemed to have all died by at the end all seemed to be alive again rebuilding.
I don't understand how you can put up with that shit. Even cough in a showing I'm at and I'll briefly consider murdering you. I'm glad I don't go to the cinema in the US/Canada.
It's fantastic. Lot's of things I wasn't expecting, especially the horror. And I don't usually like horror, but this was good.
The overall story was cliched, but I don't know how they could have done it better.
The only thing that really bothered me was the initiates seemed to have all died by at the end all seemed to be alive again rebuilding.
I don't understand how you can put up with that shit. Even cough in a showing I'm at and I'll briefly consider murdering you. I'm glad I don't go to the cinema in the US/Canada.
Papacheeks
Banned
The Cinema or should I say fun movies that have a big following are different than seeing the movie OLD, MEN, or The Northman. Comic book films, trilogy's are suppose to be experiences with the audience.
I can't stand Cinema snobs. If your at a movie theater of a big blockbuster film that is from a series of films your going to get audience/fan reactions.
If people can't expect that than Cinema for those films is not for you.
Tams
Member
Ulysses 31
Member
Oof, stay away from breakdowns of this movie then coz there's a lot of plot issues and character assassinations to be pointed out if you ever cared about that kind of stuff.
Just a couple for you:
Defender Strange at the beginning not using his sling ring. We can be good faith and assume he had a reason for not using it because he'd be retarded for not using it if he could and Strange is not a retard, right? Right?
Deranged Strange asking our Strange about a secret only he'd know when as someone familiar with multiverses should know people can have different pasts.
Strange not knowing of the book of Vashanti when he was Sorcerer Supreme when the first movie showed his specialty was reading lots of books.
Strange needed to be reminded by a non wizard that he can control spirits/ghosts.
Deranged Strange asking our Strange about a secret only he'd know when as someone familiar with multiverses should know people can have different pasts.
Strange not knowing of the book of Vashanti when he was Sorcerer Supreme when the first movie showed his specialty was reading lots of books.
Strange needed to be reminded by a non wizard that he can control spirits/ghosts.
Ulysses 31
Member
That's how I like to watch my movies too.
That and having a high-end TV with good soundbar had better picture quality than the cinema's I've visited.
Papacheeks
Banned
I enjoy seeing the movie later after its release where its quieter. But Not going to lie watching Infinity war and Endgame on opening night were magical moments of people crying, cheering during the moments that were big pay off moments. And honestly were literally put in for that kind of reaction.
I do like to watch the film a second/third time where I can really expierence it. I did this for the batman. I saw it twice. Saw it in Imax, then saw it in regular theater with friends and I picked up on things because I was not in sensory overload like I was in IMAX.
Sound alone in The batman in IMAX is insane.
Tams
Member
Yeah, but none of them stand out like a sore thumb.Oof, stay away from breakdowns of this movie then coz there's a lot of plot issues and character assassinations to be pointed out if you ever cared about that kind of stuff.
Just a couple for you:
Defender Strange at the beginning not using his sling ring. We can be good faith and assume he had a reason for not using it because he'd be retarded for not using it if he could and Strange is not a retard, right? Right?
Deranged Strange asking our Strange about a secret only he'd know when as someone familiar with multiverses should know people can have different pasts.
Strange not knowing of the book of Vashanti when he was Sorcerer Supreme when the first movie showed his specialty was reading lots of books.
Strange needed to be reminded by a non wizard that he can control spirits/ghosts.
For an action film, I generally switch off so it's only glaring issues that stand out. Like the initiates.
Ulysses 31
Member
Well, Wanda's inconsistent use of her powers does kinda stick out, she can kill with looks and completely incinerate someone to ash, it raises questions why she doesn't all the time.
I have the feeling that's what I should be doing for MCU Phase 4 and beyond now but part of me also wants MCU writers(and Hollywood writers in general) to improve.
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El Pistolero
Banned
I thought it was okay, especially the second half, where Raimi went full Raimi, with some brutal/creepy scenes. I did not like the weird editing during the first half, which served the overstretched exposition dump, nor did I appreciate how inconsequential everything felt, despite a series of dialogues trying to convey the seriousness of the threat that was looming over everyone's head. I am also of the opinion that Raimi and whoever wrote the script could have gone much crazier with a concept as mindblowing as the multi-verse; the adventure, for all its turns and twists, was rather tame. The CG work is mediocre...I expected quite a bit better from a Marvel film, honestly; and the humour fell flat almost invariably (THAT cameo was cringe city!)...But, the depiction of Dr. Strange and the Scarlet Witch was absolutely great, and the acting very good accross the board.
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YukiOnna
Member
Yeah, no. I definitely need audience reactions for event and comic book films since it elevates it. The crowd reaction for Infinity War, Endgame and even the new Spider Man only made the experience better. Opening night is the best.
Ulysses 31
Member
You "need" it? That seems a bit sad to me that you depend so much on an audience to get maximum enjoyment out of movies but that's just me.
If you're completely in tune with what the audience likes then I can see it being a plus but if you're not then their reactions can actually be annoying and distracting from the movie.
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YukiOnna
Member
I guess "need" is a strong word, but it just adds to the fun of it in my case. I don't get bothered either if I'm not enjoying it as much as the audience, so that helps.
Ulysses 31
Member
Everything Everywhere All At Once is a much better multiverse movie IMO.
MOM has a surprising lack of multiverses and creativity for a high budget multiverse movie.
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Mato
Member
Thank for bringing it to my attention, looks fun, I'll watch it.Everything Everyone All At Once is a much better multiverse movie IMO.
MOM has a surprising lack of multiverses and creativity for a high budget multiverse movie.
Ulysses 31
Member
A bit of warning though, it has some real absurd situations (but the story justifies it enough IMO) that can break the movie for some people.
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FunkMiller
Gold Member
Just got done watching this.
Eh. It’s fine. Lots of CGI. Zero stakes.
Kinda like pretty wallpaper.
Eh. It’s fine. Lots of CGI. Zero stakes.
Kinda like pretty wallpaper.
Little Mac
Gold Member
I enjoyed it. 8.5/10 ... What horror/gore Raimi got away with was refreshing to see in an MCU film. Krazinski playing Reed Richards was awesome despite the quick exit.
Yoboman
Member
Enjoyed it. It was nonsensical at times but good fun and very ballsy what they did to some of the characters especially the cameos
Not sure I'm that much of a fan how they did Scarlett Witch though. Her jump to super villain wasn't really logical at all, they shouldn't have given her any redemption at the end of Wandavision if that was the plan
Glad I didn't watch it in theaters though, don't think I would have enjoyed as much paying for it
Not sure I'm that much of a fan how they did Scarlett Witch though. Her jump to super villain wasn't really logical at all, they shouldn't have given her any redemption at the end of Wandavision if that was the plan
Glad I didn't watch it in theaters though, don't think I would have enjoyed as much paying for it
ManaByte
Gold Member
The movie only explains that the Darkhold corrupts whoever uses it about 20 times. Maybe it should’ve been after every single line for people to understand it?
Azurro
Banned
I just find that annoying, then again, I'm not American.
JusticeForAll
Gold Member
I once went to a film festival and discovered that people were commenting, joking and screaming throughout the films. Never again!
Darkmakaimura
Member
I finished it a few minutes ago. Watched it on Disney Plus. Old buddy boy buddy, I don't know where to begin because I was kind of high during the movie but man I'm going to have to go State some stuff and things and stuff about the things.
Zeroing
Banned
I managed to watch it, what a waste of time, also the CGI is most of the times bad.
So the plot is simple,
I am done with these types of movies, it is not that the actors are bad, it is the writing.
So the plot is simple,
let's have a very powerful character chase a random new character, we will add cameos and influences from terror and surrealism movies... then the random character will finally manage to control her powers on the right minute before things go bad... the end
I am done with these types of movies, it is not that the actors are bad, it is the writing.