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Drama Poll Do you think Sony will announce something to 'counter' Game Pass this summer?

Do you think Sony will announce something to 'counter' Game Pass this summer?


  • Total voters
    285

yurinka

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Well Jim is right in regards to Sony's business model and even Nintendo's, its not saying what Gamepass is won't work, its saying for Sony and Nintendo, its more a loss then anything as they move record units of software and hardware. So to them, saying here is a service where our biggest IP will appear day 1 and no thank you to those massive millions of units sold that break records of full price games, heres a cheap rental service, simply isn't a positive for them. Its simply not a thing Sony or Nintendo see a reason to jump on just yet when they are moving monster units of hardware and software.

That is an area MS has struggled in since they entered gaming, so gamepass makes complete sense for MS. So I think Jim is saying that cause the record units they sell of software.


So imagine Jim telling Sony investors that Spiderman 2 will be day 1 on PS Now, be like "hey and no worries about Spiderman 2 doing 20 million units, it will be on a service that is $10 a month that folks will likely just cancel when they beat Spiderman 2......am I doing it right folks?" They know they have IP moving monster units like 10, 13, 16, 20 MILLION etc that is a fuck ton to walk away from in favor of a service that isn't even profitable for the fucking richest company on earth and then be like "Why isn't Sony walking away from moving 20 million units in favor of subscription?"
I agree that the MS approach of including all their games + some AAA and indies day one on Game PAss doesn't make sense at all in business terms, they are only doing it to grow GP will all these $1 offers and free months to have at least a single metric to brag about in gaming (MAU or 'subscribers'). A metric that doesn't mean a shit if your revenue per user is crap, your user acquisition cost is too fucking high and you have no plan to monetize these players in the short term.

But it's true that while Sony keeps dominating MS in all areas, now MS may pass them on subscribers and that MS has a better positive buzz with GP, so they could do some steps to improve Plus/Now to counter it. I don't know, something like to announce that they may not put the games there day one but that they will include there all their past games and that will include all their future games one they get old and stop selling (maybe a couple of years or so after launch, at the same time they release them on PC).

They could also relaunch with a big marketing campaign PS Now letting people know the huge catalog with many great games it has plus mentioning it has the best input lag and image quality at 1080p 60fps plus that they also release it for mobiles, tablets and tvs, and that they allow you to buy any game available in the PSN store to play it on streaming and to download it if you have a console. They also could use this campaign to announce they are opening it in way more countries and that starting next year will feature PS5 games and that they start to include PS1 and PS2 classics (the ones available on PS3, PSP and Vita).

They could even rebrand PS Now merging it into PS Plus, that now would be multi tiered service:
-PS Plus Connect: multiplayer + online storage + discounts + games purchased to stream (cheaper than the current Plus, no monthly games, no PS Plus Collection, no PS Now subscription library + available worldwide)
-PS Plus Arcade: PS Plus Connect + Plus monthly games + PS Plus Collection + only downloadable PS Now games library(available worldwide, no PSNow streaming library)
-PS Plus Ultimate: PS Plus Arcade + current streamable PS Now games library (only available on certain countries)

I think that would highly increase their subscriptions while at the same time would make sense in terms of business.
 
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Derktron

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I actually agree with this completely. I like each platform doing their own thing. I can grab the occasional $70 game on PS5 and play tons of Game pass games with my friends. They each can serve a purpose.
You have a point. Make it unique.
 

DarkMage619

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so?

I beat sly cooper streaming on PS Now with no problem and found Xcloud beta unplayable.
Can you download Sly Cooper and play it locally? I'm pretty sure that all games on xCloud are downloadable on Xbox too so its not quite the same thing. xCloud is just a bonus.
 

Greggy

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I agree that the MS approach of including all their games + some AAA and indies day one on Game PAss doesn't make sense at all in business terms, they are only doing it to grow GP will all these $1 offers and free months to have at least a single metric to brag about in gaming (MAU or 'subscribers'). A metric that doesn't mean a shit if your revenue per user is crap, your user acquisition cost is too fucking high and you have no plan to monetize these players in the short term.

But it's true that while Sony keeps dominating MS in all areas, now MS may pass them on subscribers and that MS has a better positive buzz with GP, so they could do some steps to improve Plus/Now to counter it. I don't know, something like to announce that they may not put the games there day one but that they will include there all their past games and that will include all their future games one they get old and stop selling (maybe a couple of years or so after launch, at the same time they release them on PC).

They could also relaunch with a big marketing campaign PS Now letting people know the huge catalog with many great games it has plus mentioning it has the best input lag and image quality at 1080p 60fps plus that they also release it for mobiles, tablets and tvs, and that they allow you to buy any game available in the PSN store to play it on streaming and to download it if you have a console. They also could use this campaign to announce they are opening it in way more countries and that starting next year will feature PS5 games and that they start to include PS1 and PS2 classics (the ones available on PS3, PSP and Vita).

They could even rebrand PS Now merging it into PS Plus, that now would be multi tiered service:
-PS Plus Connect: multiplayer + online storage + discounts + games purchased to stream (cheaper than the current Plus, no monthly games, no PS Plus Collection, no PS Now subscription library + available worldwide)
-PS Plus Arcade: PS Plus Connect + Plus monthly games + PS Plus Collection + only downloadable PS Now games library(available worldwide, no PSNow streaming library)
-PS Plus Ultimate: PS Plus Arcade + current streamable PS Now games library (only available on certain countries)

I think that would highly increase their subscriptions while at the same time would make sense in terms of business.

I'm always amazed by how someone probably jobless at their keyboard can make the case that one of the world's most successful corporations of the last FIVE decades sucks at business and that HE knows better.
If Game Pass was such a gimmmick, guess what you wouldn't be doing? bothering to write 4 paragraphs in a thread about what Sony should do to counter it.
 

Pull n Pray

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Very little media attention went to Ellie being gay. You got many fucking people with reviews stating "they turned her gay for an agenda" as the reason for their zero 5 min after the Metacritic went live. So I can give 2 shits if they didn't do something for one game that they did for another. Its unjustified and simply a hate mob.
A lot of people hate the game. That's all I'm saying. Whether you think their reasons are valid or not is subjective.

The Last of Us Part II had great sales at launch, but its popularity quickly waned. Gamestat is a website that used trophies earned to estimate player bases for games. They stopped tracking this data in November 2020, but you can still use their website to look up archived data. So let's compare TLOU2 to God of War. TLOU2 had a much stronger launch, selling 4 million units to GOW's 3.1 million. And yet, God of War's player count 1 month after its release was larger than TLOU2's player count 1 month after its release. Five months after release, TLOU2 had a player count of 7.2 million while God of War had a player count of 9.18 million 5 months after its release. Below are the Gamestat figures for 5 prominent PlayStation 1st party games as of 11/19/20. The "new players" and "returning players" numbers are for the prior month.

GAMETotal Player CountNew PlayersReturning PlayersPSN User Rating
Days Gone9,000,000480,000310,00089.0%
Ghost of Tsushima5,800,000360,0001,300,00096.8%
God of War24,700,000340,000390,00096.5%
Spider-Man30,100,000450,000910,00091.3%
The Last of Us44,500,000310,000160,00095.3%
The Last of Us Part II7,200,000270,000340,00076.0%

The Last of Us Part II had the fewest new players that month of all the games on this list. It also had the lowest PSN User Rating by far.

The website ps-timetracker.com tracks hours spent playing a game from a sample of thousands of PSN accounts. In October 2020, just 4 months after release, TLOU2 was the 22nd most played game on PlayStation. And it wasn't just multiplayer games that were beating it. The Witcher 3, Red Dead Redemption 2, Spider-man, and Ghost of Tsushima all had more hours spent playing it. Ghost of Tsushima, a game released only a month after TLOU2 was played 4.5 times as many hours.
 
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yurinka

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I'm always amazed by how someone probably jobless at their keyboard can make the case that one of the world's most successful corporations of the last FIVE decades sucks at business and that HE knows better.
If Game Pass was such a gimmmick, guess what you wouldn't be doing? bothering to write 4 paragraphs in a thread about what Sony should do to counter it.
You shouldn't be very smart if you are in a gaming forum and don't know that it's a place where random gamers talk about videogames and the gaming industry, sharing opinions and ideas. And I'm sharing my random opinions, like you.

Microsoft as corporation has been very successful, but not Xbox. Here we talk about MS gaming part, not about Office or Windows. And this is why some stakeholders asked to shut it down years ago, and why they did a 180º in many areas after noticing they weren't able to dominate the console market selling consoles or games: first shifting their focus to PC, now to subscriptions and spent over $10B on acquisitions. They have been making big changes and long term bets to improve it. With Gamepass they are making an all-in to see if they can grow its userbase to a critical point, and then in the future will figure out how to monetize them, because as of now there doesn't to be a mid term plan to turn it into a profitable business.

If we look at their financials, Sony and Nintendo are making a way better job with their strategies focused on selling consoles and console games. Regarding game subscriptions Sony makes more money than MS with their current strategy, one compatible with their main business: to sell games. And they get most of that money at launch, when games are full priced. Most of that money comes from games that aren't F2P or GaaS, so since they aren't infested with tons of MTX their revenue primarly comes from sales.

In other words: to give away 'for free' their main games on a subscription would seriously hurt their main revenue source, and the main revenue source of many publishers and developers, specially the ones who aren't so big so they wouldn't be selected to be included in GP/PS Now and if these services become too big they would eat the play time and budget from gamers, so sales of games not included there would drop hard.

PS Now approach is safer for Sony and the other devs and publishers: games are included there when they are old and completed their sales life cycle. Including the game there doesn't affect game sales, and helps them to generate some extra revenue that even if it's going to be small, it's better than nothing, while at the same time helps to promote the studio or potential sequels. And for Sony, the price to put an old game there is super slow compared to put a big AAA there day one.

P.S.: In my case, I worked in over 40 published games (several of them award winning and others very successful, one of the even became worldwide top 1) in different develoment and marketing areas, and after more than a decade working on a studio that is part of one of the top publishers of the industry I left to create my own studio and spend more time in some gamedev community stuff like helping to create game museums, some game events or giving masterclasses on gamedev universities about different topics (being gaming market analysis one of them).

A lot of people hate the game. That's all I'm saying. Whether you think their reasons are valid or not is subjective.

The Last of Us Part II had great sales at launch, but its popularity quickly waned. Gamestat is a website that used trophies earned to estimate player bases for games. They stopped tracking this data in November 2020, but you can still use their website to look up archived data. So let's compare TLOU2 to God of War. TLOU2 had a much stronger launch, selling 4 million units to GOW's 3.1 million. And yet, God of War's player count 1 month after its release was larger than TLOU2's player count 1 month after its release. Five months after release, TLOU2 had a player count of 7.2 million while God of War had a player count of 9.18 million 5 months after its release. Below are the Gamestat figures for 5 prominent PlayStation 1st party games as of 11/19/20. The "new players" and "returning players" numbers are for the prior month.

GAMETotal Player CountNew PlayersReturning PlayersPSN User Rating
Days Gone9,000,000480,000310,00089.0%
Ghost of Tsushima5,800,000360,0001,300,00096.8%
God of War24,700,000340,000390,00096.5%
Spider-Man30,100,000450,000910,00091.3%
The Last of Us44,500,000310,000160,00095.3%
The Last of Us Part II7,200,000270,000340,00076.0%

The Last of Us Part II had the fewest new players that month of all the games on this list. It also had the lowest PSN User Rating by far.

The website ps-timetracker.com tracks hours spent playing a game from a sample of thousands of PSN accounts. In October 2020, just 4 months after release, TLOU2 was the 22nd most played game on PlayStation. And it wasn't just multiplayer games that were beating it. The Witcher 3, Red Dead Redemption 2, Spider-man, and Ghost of Tsushima all had more hours spent playing it. Ghost of Tsushima, a game released only a month after TLOU2 was played 4.5 times as many hours.
As I remember Gamstat stopped their tracking in November, I assume when Sony changed their servers to include PS5.

TLOU2 has the record of the best lauch for a PlayStation exclusive, and GoT the record for a PlayStation exclusive new IP. As of now TLOU2 must be way above GoT because in addition to have a biggest launch, when we saw one of them in the European charts (unlike in the other gaming markets EU is the top PS market instead of USA), TLOU2 was outselling GoT for that month.

Yes, many people were pissed off and that caused user review bombing, but the game is an insane succes in sales, reviews and GOTY awards. And well, regarding playtime TLOU2 isn't an open world, and open world games traditionally are way longer and require more hours, so obviously they will have more playtime than TLOU2. Being top 25 4 months after release for a game that isn't a big open world or top MP game means it's selling very well months after release, something rare because games traditionally have a big peak at launch that last maximum 2-3 months (specially the first few days for super hyped games with tons of preorders) and then drops until it gets a big discount/price drop/etc.
 
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Pull n Pray

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Microsoft as corporation has been very successful, but not Xbox. Here we talk about MS gaming part, not about Office or Windows. And this is why some stakeholders asked to shut it down years ago, and why they did a 180º in many areas after noticing they weren't able to dominate the console market selling consoles or games: first shifting their focus to PC, now to subscriptions and spent over $10B on acquisitions. They have been making big changes and long term bets to improve it. With Gamepass they are making an all-in to see if they can grow its userbase to a critical point, and then in the future will figure out how to monetize them, because as of now there doesn't to be a mid term plan to turn it into a profitable business.
According to Phil Spencer, Xbox is already profitable.
 
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Greggy

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You shouldn't be very smart if you are in a gaming forum and don't know that it's a place where random gamers talk about videogames and the gaming industry, sharing opinions and ideas. And I'm sharing my random opinions, like you.

Microsoft as corporation has been very successful, but not Xbox. Here we talk about MS gaming part, not about Office or Windows. And this is why some stakeholders asked to shut it down years ago, and why they did a 180º in many areas after noticing they weren't able to dominate the console market selling consoles or games: first shifting their focus to PC, now to subscriptions and spent over $10B on acquisitions. They have been making big changes and long term bets to improve it. With Gamepass they are making an all-in to see if they can grow its userbase to a critical point, and then in the future will figure out how to monetize them, because as of now there doesn't to be a mid term plan to turn it into a profitable business.

If we look at their financials, Sony and Nintendo are making a way better job with their strategies focused on selling consoles and console games. Regarding game subscriptions Sony makes more money than MS with their current strategy, one compatible with their main business: to sell games. And they get most of that money at launch, when games are full priced. Most of that money comes from games that aren't F2P or GaaS, so since they aren't infested with tons of MTX their revenue primarly comes from sales.

In other words: to give away 'for free' their main games on a subscription would seriously hurt their main revenue source, and the main revenue source of many publishers and developers, specially the ones who aren't so big so they wouldn't be selected to be included in GP/PS Now and if these services become too big they would eat the play time and budget from gamers, so sales of games not included there would drop hard.

PS Now approach is safer for Sony and the other devs and publishers: games are included there when they are old and completed their sales life cycle. Including the game there doesn't affect game sales, and helps them to generate some extra revenue that even if it's going to be small, it's better than nothing, while at the same time helps to promote the studio or potential sequels. And for Sony, the price to put an old game there is super slow compared to put a big AAA there day one.

I’m sorry but this long post of yours is rich in speculation and subjectivity and rather lacking in facts. You haven’t seen the books of the Xbox division. Just because they’ve been selling less consoles than Sony doesn’t mean they’re not profitable. As for Sony’s financial results, let’s just say that their agressive foray into mobile and this very thread about what they should do to counter game pass doesn’t exude the same unassailable confidence that you are proclaiming about their current strategy.
i hope both manufacturers are making money but I don’t care enough to come and shill for them on game forums, or defend their honour with my life. I’m not a shareholder. I’m a gamer. More power to you though.
 

yurinka

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G Greggy MS posts publicly their 'gaming' divisions key numbers every quarter, so even if we ignore they add there other non-Xbox/gaming stuff, we can compare the revenue of that division against Sony's division because they also publish them. We can also compare the money made by their game subscription services together (we don't these both numbers split).

When they are in a trend where numbers aren't great, they hide some of them trying to make some spin. Not only MS, Sony also at the PS3 days during some time merged their console solds number with other platform, and same goes with Vita merging them with PSP. Now Sony is very transparent and post meaningful numbers basically every quarter, and it's because many of them are gaming history record breaking numbers.

PS4 broke many records since the start. To name a few, it's the console for who more games have been sold, beating the 1500 million games record of the full PS2 lifetime. And regarding console solds, launch aligned is only 2.5M consoles away of being the best selling console ever at its life cycle point. And PS5 started breaking these numbers. Their subscriptions also grow and compared to MS and Nintendo are the ones that generate more revenue. Same goes with the whole game divisions, Sony is also by far the one that makes more money (revenue) compared to MS and Nintendo, look at the recent fiscal year results posted.

They break some of this records even posting these record numbers, with profits during an intergenerational period where they traditionally always loses. PS4 also still having now 80M MAU even if 8 years old, which means a ton of money from games and PS Plus. And their main exclusives are selling more games and winning more awards they ever did. And they do it with pretty much a growing trend and selling out their consoles in minutes, something that points out that in the short and mid term their numbers will likely be better.
 
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EDMIX

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A lot of people hate the game. That's all I'm saying. Whether you think their reasons are valid or not is subjective.

The Last of Us Part II had great sales at launch, but its popularity quickly waned. Gamestat is a website that used trophies earned to estimate player bases for games. They stopped tracking this data in November 2020, but you can still use their website to look up archived data. So let's compare TLOU2 to God of War. TLOU2 had a much stronger launch, selling 4 million units to GOW's 3.1 million. And yet, God of War's player count 1 month after its release was larger than TLOU2's player count 1 month after its release. Five months after release, TLOU2 had a player count of 7.2 million while God of War had a player count of 9.18 million 5 months after its release. Below are the Gamestat figures for 5 prominent PlayStation 1st party games as of 11/19/20. The "new players" and "returning players" numbers are for the prior month.

GAMETotal Player CountNew PlayersReturning PlayersPSN User Rating
Days Gone9,000,000480,000310,00089.0%
Ghost of Tsushima5,800,000360,0001,300,00096.8%
God of War24,700,000340,000390,00096.5%
Spider-Man30,100,000450,000910,00091.3%
The Last of Us44,500,000310,000160,00095.3%
The Last of Us Part II7,200,000270,000340,00076.0%

The Last of Us Part II had the fewest new players that month of all the games on this list. It also had the lowest PSN User Rating by far.

The website ps-timetracker.com tracks hours spent playing a game from a sample of thousands of PSN accounts. In October 2020, just 4 months after release, TLOU2 was the 22nd most played game on PlayStation. And it wasn't just multiplayer games that were beating it. The Witcher 3, Red Dead Redemption 2, Spider-man, and Ghost of Tsushima all had more hours spent playing it. Ghost of Tsushima, a game released only a month after TLOU2 was played 4.5 times as many hours.
A lot of people love the game. That's all I'm saying, with real fucking data like actually buying the game and new people buying the game on top of awards by both consumers and publication. But hey, someone said they hate the game 5 min after release of a 30 hour game on Metacritic so you NEED that huh? Oh Gamstat, yea that must be the ticket. lol You literally only want data that argues a narrative, you don't fucking want to talk about those record sales or record awards by FANS, but we can agree with Metacritic scores the hour of the games release that are zeros though? Cope bud...

You going to have to cope with that big time. Splitting hairs and trying to fucking ignore all logical data in favor of cherry picked shit doesn't work. I mean, you literally fucking ignored one of those games IS AN RPG THAT IS A LONG GAME LOL! So yes, I put more hours in Ghost, because it takes longer to beat, that doesn't mean I like one more then the other, you don't even fucking know how to read that data bud, you simply want anything to argue a fucking narrative that actual facts destroy.

It would be like saying ignore Call Of Duty's actual sales, but hey look at this Youtube dislike button lol. Good luck with that bud. I don't understand this obsession with trying to force people to hate something you hate and then ignore all logic and realty to desperately pretend "everyone" MUST agree with you.

Have fun telling people every Call Of Duty failed because you are triggered, I'm sure they'll look at your doom and gloom "data"...=)
 

ZywyPL

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According to Phil Spencer, Xbox is already profitable.

Also according to the 2019 financials. Certain people here keep insisting that Xbox isn't profitable though :messenger_beaming:

You guys trust companies reports and their execs over some random guys on the internet, for real? Xbox is doomed, you her me? DOOMED! ;)


Speaking of reports, Sony's most profits come from PS+ subs, there's no denial about it, so it's more than a given they'll keep investing in it, to encourage more and more people into it. The game's sales while look good on paper are not that meaningful in the long term, since those 10-15M unit sold games bring a nice pile of money once during the entire generation, ONCE, whereas PS+ gives them a constant flow of cash year after year, month after month, and on top of that doesn't require a 100-150M investment every now and then. I'm way more than certain that within this generation PS+ will evolve into something where being able to play online is just an added bonus, instead of the only reason people subscribe to the service.
 
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Pull n Pray

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A lot of people love the game. That's all I'm saying, with real fucking data like actually buying the game and new people buying the game on top of awards by both consumers and publication. But hey, someone said they hate the game 5 min after release of a 30 hour game on Metacritic so you NEED that huh? Oh Gamstat, yea that must be the ticket. lol You literally only want data that argues a narrative, you don't fucking want to talk about those record sales or record awards by FANS, but we can agree with Metacritic scores the hour of the games release that are zeros though? Cope bud...

You going to have to cope with that big time. Splitting hairs and trying to fucking ignore all logical data in favor of cherry picked shit doesn't work. I mean, you literally fucking ignored one of those games IS AN RPG THAT IS A LONG GAME LOL! So yes, I put more hours in Ghost, because it takes longer to beat, that doesn't mean I like one more then the other, you don't even fucking know how to read that data bud, you simply want anything to argue a fucking narrative that actual facts destroy.

It would be like saying ignore Call Of Duty's actual sales, but hey look at this Youtube dislike button lol. Good luck with that bud. I don't understand this obsession with trying to force people to hate something you hate and then ignore all logic and realty to desperately pretend "everyone" MUST agree with you.

Have fun telling people every Call Of Duty failed because you are triggered, I'm sure they'll look at your doom and gloom "data"...=)
So I'm the one who is triggered, and yet you're the one who laces his posts with profanity. Hmm.

It wasn't just RPG's that were being played more just a few months after TLOU2's release, but also games similar in scale such as RDR2 and Spider-man. And game genre is no excuse for having fewer new players, fewer returning players, and a lower PSN User Rating. When a game has record launch sales, but then its popularity quickly peters out, this indicates the game was not particularly well liked. It didn't have legs because of poor word of mouth.

You admitted yourself that a lot of people hated the game. You don't think their reasons were justified, but that is beside the point. The game was not widely loved the way that the first game was.
 
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EDMIX

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So I'm the one who is triggered, and yet you're the one who laces his posts with profanity. Hmm.

It wasn't just RPG's that were being played more just a few months after TLOU2's release, but also games similar in scale such as RDR2 and Spider-man. And game genre is no excuse for having fewer new players, fewer returning players, and a lower PSN User Rating. When a game has record launch sales, but then its popularity quickly peters out, this indicates the game was not particularly well liked. It didn't have legs because of poor word of mouth.

You admitted yourself that a lot of people hated the game. You don't think their reasons were justified, but that is beside the point. The game was not widely loved the way that the first game was.

Sure thats nice, you still need to deal with those record sales and record awards bud.

I'm sorry buddy but you could split as many hairs as you want, more actual substantial data exist to show a lot more people liked the game then hated it because they're literally fucking parting with their money to purchase the game...

We are now getting to the point of desperation of people trying to argue how long someone may have played it or not and then completely disregard it's one of the most completed games in PlayStation history....

Disregarding it's the fastest selling game in PlayStation history....

Disregarding it is the most Awards ever received for a game by FANS!

Get the fuck over it.... it reeks of copium and Desperation that's like me trying to tell you people must truly absolutely hate Call of Duty I mean please look at this YouTube dislike button I mean please look at this website that shows three people hated it dear God it must be Doom and Gloom /s

It sounds sad and desperate like the person can't deal with reality or something.






Imagine really trying to argue the majority hates a game, that has several records that show otherwise.... Thats some massive triggering man, I would never say this shit about Call Of Duty or Fortnite and I personally don't hate those games, but I also don't pretend their install base hates the very game, objectively getting those sales, records etc. Time to add you to the good ole ignore list bud. This is some other worldly desperation here.

 
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Pull n Pray

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Disregarding it's the fastest selling game in PlayStation history....

Imagine really trying to argue the majority hates a game, that has several records that show otherwise....
It was the fastest selling 1st party game in PlayStation history. Not even close to being the fastest selling overall. And it didn't sell great after the first week.

I never said that the majority of people hated it. I just said that for a game that won so many awards, a lot of people hated it. Look at its PSN user rating compared to other highly acclaimed games.

It's unfortunate you can't have a civil conversation with someone you disagree with without resorting to swearing, insulting, and ignoring. But hey, you do what you need to do for your mental health.