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[mr.dilya]

“Rapping” is the foundation of music. Humans weren’t born with instruments at their disposal, all they had was the expression of sound and a developed sense of rhythm. This later evolved into the creation of musical instruments later on down the human timeline. So rap might not be music in the sense that most people are familiar with, but it is directly related to and is probably an example of its earliest form. That’s why it came out of the poorest of neighborhoods.

 

[Airola]

Rap music sounds nothing like Afrrican tribal music; you're being ridiculous and are stating that only because rap is the creation of black people.

Rapping - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Rapping can be traced back to its African roots. Centuries before hip-hop music existed, the griots of West Africa were delivering stories rhythmically, over drums and sparse instrumentation. Such connections have been acknowledged by many modern artists, modern day "griots", spoken word artists, mainstream news sources, and academics."

 

[Rock And Roll]

Probably hits the criteria for music than metal, which guitarists tune their guitars to atonal slop, drummers spam double kick and play blast beats that sound like nothing, and the frontman growls and screams (also atonally). None of this fits the requirement for music, would you say this brand of metal is music OP?

 

[MrS]

^ the OG rap song.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

even melodic music is based on repetition, rhythm, etc. people think 1 4 5 is the deepest shit ever yet it's those three chords over and over again. lot of rap is just as dynamic. a lot of melodic music is just as repetitive. if you want to throw out rap for being rhythmically based instead of melodic then you need to throw out dub too and then electronic music as well and why not dance music and funk? "throw it all away anything not Beethoven is not music" i can't abide that absurd snobbery.

as for the use of samples, i would consider that futuristic. rap music is ahead of the times in that respect, being the first to incorporate music samples. samples themselves are kind of a longstanding tradition in music. music itself used to be much more fluid before the advent of recorded music, songs were passed down, lyrics changed, melodies interpolated, etc. when rap uses sample-based music, it is harkening back to the creative evolution of pre-recorded music, and doing so with futuristic technologies replacing the traditional instruments. it's almost a mix of primitive and futuristic. Afrofuturism?

this is why something like Egyptian Lover works so well as a concept.

 

[ExpandKong]

Rapping - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Facts and history are racist

 

[haxan7]

I only consider Classical Music to be true music. Everything else sounds like farting into a cardboard box to my refined ears.

 

[lock2k]

Most genres of music consist of a harmony of melodic and rhythmic sounds that are produced via instruments - or instruments and a singing human voice. Genres that meet this criteria are classical, rock n' roll, rhythm and blues, pop, and country.

However, rap doesn't meet this criteria as it doesn't rely on instruments to produce the non-verbal portions of songs but instead relies on wholly electronic equipment, and the verbal portions of its songs are produced by a speaking voice rather than a singing one.

In light of this, do you consider rap to be actual music? Also, while we're at it, how about techno?

To quote Neil Peart:

"All this machinery making modern music can still be open hearted".

 

[BluRayHiDef]

I don't care that it's the creation of black people. I really don't give a shit if an Asian, black, white etc created the music.
To me, it does sound like african tribal music. And that's my opinion. If you don't like it or disagree with it, well, deal with it bro, I don't care tbh.

Well, you're opinion is false.

 

[Elektro Demon]

Well, you're opinion is false.

No, you're of the opinion that my opinion is false but my opinion in my opinion, is not false.
Just because you like something doesn't mean everyone likes it or makes it the best. You have an opinion and I have an opinion. Yours is not the default correct one.
You're acting like a baby. Stop acting like a little bitch and grow up.

 

[Richard Packer]

The skill required to work a beat box is different from that required to coordinate your hands and fingers in order to manipulate an instrument in real time. The former requires mere trial and error, whereas the latter requires top-notch hand-finger coordination, muscle memory, and pattern recollection.

The following requires true, awe-inspiring talent.

 

[teezzy]

Rap/hip-hop may not be for me any longer, but yeah it's definitely music.

I'd hate the same critique to be targeted towards some of the post-punk and black metal I've been bumping as of late.

You sound like a geezer, OP.

 

[O-N-E]

The fuck you say?

Spoiler

Most rap is utter shit. Moreso than other genres with the exception of death metal / screamo doodoo.

 

[triplestation]

yeah it is music, there's some really good tunes out there

rap in modern america is like the voice of youth

used to be rock

who knows what's next

 

[NickFire]

Of course it is music.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

No, it is more akin to primal grunting.

 

[TheContact]

No, it is more akin to primal grunting.

bleh what a bad hot take. Maybe mumble rap lol.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

bleh

Nice rap skills

 

[Grinchy]

There's some really good rap out there. There's a ton of really horrific rap out there too, though.

I think it hurts the genre that the barrier to entry is so low. You can listen to a couple shitty rap albums, get your hands on a keyboard and an old laptop, and now you're a "totally real musician and artist." You don't have to practice an instrument or learn to sing or anything.

And it also sounds really bad live for the most part. Even some of the supposed greats just sound like people trying to yell louder than the track that's playing behind them when they perform live.

 

[deafmedal]

To quote Neil Peart:

"All this machinery making modern music can still be open hearted".

Geddy Lee you mean?

On topic- ofc rap is music. It may not be everyone’s cup of tea and an argument could be made that current popular rap is more product than art but that’s true of all genres of anything really. I have noticed a trend of more rappers using backing bands while performing in the studio and live, lends to a better show imo.

Wordplay and delivery are not necessarily “easy”, neither is sampling or production. Sure, any yaywho with a cracked copy of Fruit Loops can make a beat and stammer their crappy bars into a cheap mic but this is not indicative of the entire genre. I generally prefer story telling and hardcore rap to braggadocio or intelligent rap but can appreciate aspects of any rap with a soul, so to speak. I’d rather any music have passion over technical ability (both are best though, and nothing wrong with preferring technical chops first and foremost) and there is plenty of passionate rap out there.

 

[Master Of Illusion]

John Cage's 4:33 is music.

Also, I stand by my stance that My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is a prog album.

 

[JaseMath]

WTF OP... of course it is.

 

[deafmedal]

John Cage's 4:33 is music.

Also, I stand by my stance that My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is a prog album.

 

[teezzy]

My problem with rap is I so seldomly relate to it. They're always talking about shit that has nothing to do with me, or the lyrics aren't ones which I can apply to my real life, and as a genre its primarily based on the lyricism.

Metal is good for me, because I can feel a riff in my gut, often the lyrics are abstract, and even indistinguishable. I appreciate the way the vocals are used as an instrument in that regard. Hits me right in the adrenaline. I feel the anger and rage and anxiety.

I really fell out of love with rap once I was told I wasn't any longer allowed to sing along with the lyrics. Then it became even more clear that the music wasnt intended for me.

 

[Nymphae]

This is pretty much how I feel about rap

Rap is an extension of being raised without fathers and then trying to act like a man later in life despite having no idea what that means. Even the whole concept of rap is gay ("I can write awful poetry better than you!"). Obsession with clothes/shoes (especially name brand stuff), jewelry, holding grudges, absurd jealousy, and vying for in-group status are all so feminine they would be the central plot points of the black version of Mean Girls

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

This is pretty much how I feel about rap

What about all the rappers who did have fathers though...

Everything you spoke of comes from the culture their people have been a part of. They will rap about clothing and jewelry because when you're poor and have nothing you tend to approximate your self worth based on what material possessions you have. Same thing with holding grudges and jealousy. It all stems from the culture they are surrounded by. Being disenfranchised can warp your view of reality. You should try to understand the culture and people and the reasons WHY rsp is the way it is before slamming it eh?

 

[Nymphae]

What about all the rappers who did have fathers though...

Rest of the commentary still basically applies

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

Rest of the commentary still basically applies

I edited my post, the rest of your commentary comes from ignorance.

 

[YCoCg]

 

[Bolivar687]

1. A great deal of what we would otherwise call music is made electronically today. However, the keyboard is most certainly a musical instrument and many producers, like the Alchemist, got their start making beats on one. I would absolutely consider the MPC 500 drum machine a musical instrument, because there is still live timing and rhythm that goes into it:



2. A rapping voice is not the same as a talking voice. There is still a lot of rhythm that goes into riding a beat.

Regarding sampling, I think all music is fundamentally taking something that has already happened and putting your own spin on it. I think the video with Havoc above really demonstrates the artistry that goes into it. He's one of the best beatmakers in my book for how he can take things that sound like they have no place in a rap song but add his own melodic and dark style to it, regardless of how lighthearted the source might seem.

 

[John Mullins]

Troll post surely.

 

[Richard Packer]

1. A great deal of what we would otherwise call music is made electronically today. However, the keyboard is most certainly a musical instrument and many producers, like the Alchemist, got their start making beats on one. I would absolutely consider the MPC 500 drum machine a musical instrument, because there is still live timing and rhythm that goes into it:



2. A rapping voice is not the same as a talking voice. There is still a lot of rhythm that goes into riding a beat.

Regarding sampling, I think all music is fundamentally taking something that has already happened and putting your own spin on it. I think the video with Havoc above really demonstrates the artistry that goes into it. He's one of the best beatmakers in my book for how he can take things that sound like they have no place in a rap song but add his own melodic and dark style to it, regardless of how lighthearted the source might seem.

Talking about Havoc and ALC. I knew there was good peoples here.

 

[lock2k]

Geddy Lee you mean?

On topic- ofc rap is music. It may not be everyone’s cup of tea and an argument could be made that current popular rap is more product than art but that’s true of all genres of anything really. I have noticed a trend of more rappers using backing bands while performing in the studio and live, lends to a better show imo.

Wordplay and delivery are not necessarily “easy”, neither is sampling or production. Sure, any yaywho with a cracked copy of Fruit Loops can make a beat and stammer their crappy bars into a cheap mic but this is not indicative of the entire genre. I generally prefer story telling and hardcore rap to braggadocio or intelligent rap but can appreciate aspects of any rap with a soul, so to speak. I’d rather any music have passion over technical ability (both are best though, and nothing wrong with preferring technical chops first and foremost) and there is plenty of passionate rap out there.

Geddy Lee indeed (singing) but Neil wrote the lyrics. Still, I love Rush and I also like some hip hop and electronic music

 

[Nymphae]

Everything you spoke of comes from the culture their people have been a part of. They will rap about clothing and jewelry because when you're poor and have nothing you tend to approximate your self worth based on what material possessions you have. Same thing with holding grudges and jealousy. It all stems from the culture they are surrounded by. Being disenfranchised can warp your view of reality. You should try to understand the culture and people and the reasons WHY rsp is the way it is before slamming it eh?

I don't care really? The subject matter is unappealing and juvenile to me. Grudges and clothing and bragging and what not, doesn't really matter what the context is to me, it is what it is.

 

[Dark Star]

I LOVE "cloud rap" music.

 

[deafmedal]

Damn you Master Of Illusion I hadn’t thought about 4:33 in ages, all the damn arguments I’ve read over the years regarding that shit...

 

[Richard Packer]

I LOVE "cloud rap" music.

All of this is garbage to me. Rap has been terrible for the past decade.

 

[Kadayi]

I can't say I go out of my way to listen to the raps, but I'm not opposed. If anything though I kind of like mashup more. Girl Talk released this in 2008 and it still stands up to this day.

 

[The Scrivener]

Do I fuck.

That's my shitpost opinion. Thinking about it for longer than a second though, I would support the view that it is music.

 

[Kev Kev]

jfc this dude makes the dumbest threads

The skill required to work a beat box is different from that required to coordinate your hands and fingers in order to manipulate an instrument in real time. The former requires mere trial and error, whereas the latter requires top-notch hand-finger coordination, muscle memory, and pattern recollection.

The following requires true, awe-inspiring talent.

youre telling me this guy making this beat isnt making music? i mean, he's doing the same thing a drummer would do. tapping, hitting, beating on something that creates a percussive sound. cool part with this guys is he can add all kinds of fun samples instead of the acoustic sounds drum heads would make. however, he still has to have rhythm, understanding of song structure, timing, intensity, multi tasking, coordination, etc. same basic principles as a drummer behind a drum set. where is your logic even coming from? of course rap is music. because its actual fucking music that people make, sometimes in real time just like any other instrument.

or are you telling me if he started rapping over it then it would cease to be music?

or is it because the beats are pre-recorded and all they do is rap over it and you dont consider rapping to be musical? but then the question would be is a "is a rapper a real musician?", and your topic wouldnt make any sense... not that it made much sense to begin with

 

[p_xavier]

 

[eddie4]

I sense sarcasm. Anyhow, what about positive rap, such as that by Will Smith or Lupe Fiasco?

Will Smith don't gotta cuss in his raps to sell records
Well, I do, so fuck him and fuck you too!

 

[-Arcadia-]

Music is a collection of pleasing sounds for a sustained amount of time. That's literally it. That's the only qualification.

Something as far away from rhythm and structure as an ambient piece in a videogame (Think Ocarina of Time's grottos) can be considered music.

 

[T8SC]

This reminds me of the people I went to school with, they often said "If it's not got a guitar, its not real music".

So I'll point you to a rap song and a "techno" song with instruments. (Replace techno with - Electronic music).

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Will Smith don't gotta cuss in his raps to sell records
Well, I do, so fuck him and fuck you too!

Eminem is actually my favorite rapper. I was addicted to his music when I was a teenager; The Marshall Mathers LP is my favorite album of his.

 

[eddie4]

 

[BluRayHiDef]

jfc this dude makes the dumbest threads



youre telling me this guy making this beat isnt making music? i mean, he's doing the same thing a drummer would do. tapping, hitting, beating on something that creates a percussive sound. cool part with this guys is he can add all kinds of fun samples instead of the acoustic sounds drum heads would make. however, he still has to have rhythm, understanding of song structure, timing, intensity, multi tasking, coordination, etc. same basic principles as a drummer behind a drum set. where is your logic even coming from? of course rap is music. because its actual fucking music that people make, sometimes in real time just like any other instrument.

or are you telling me if he started rapping over it then it would cease to be music?

or is it because the beats are pre-recorded and all they do is rap over it and you dont consider rapping to be musical? but then the question would be is a "is a rapper a real musician?", and your topic wouldnt make any sense... not that it made much sense to begin with

I'm not telling you anything, because I presented the premises in the OP from a neutral standpoint; I don't agree with them. I actually like some rap, and one of my favorite musicians is a rapper (Eminem).

 

[BlackOlivesMatter]

Old school 80's rap > any rap in the past 20 years

 

[Kev Kev]

one of my favorite musicians is a rapper

say that again, but slower

 

[p_xavier]

This reminds me of the people I went to school with, they often said "If it's not got a guitar, its not real music".

So I'll point you to a rap song and a "techno" song with instruments. (Replace techno with - Electronic music).

My waking up song has been Children since 96. Perfection in trance.