Support NeoGAF

[Virex]

part of being a decent human being is respecting others beliefs.

I agree. Islam is right about women

 

[petran79]

Give the game for free to the masses!

edit:

all good communists died or were killed so I agree

 

[Virex]

Give our game for free to the masses!

fify

 

[SLB1904]

Communism is great. My mom told me she had to get vouchers and wait on the line of hundreds of people to get milk. Bread and chicken. How great is that?

Fuck communism
Fucking weirdos

 

[Gp1]

Marx wasn't even the proponent of a "system". And he was very critical in fact of utopian socialists, as well as people who called themselves "Marxists". The one thing he did was analyzing the exploitative character of Capitalism, nothing more, nothing less. He thought there would be a gigantic uprising of the workers worldwide, but that didn't really happen. Instead the cult of personality under Stalin and Lenin took over in Russia. And they were far from socialist too. Socialism can be summed up in a single sentence; ownership of the means of production by the workers. If there's a reference to private property in socialist literature, it is exactly that; the stuff that Capitalists own to create profit. It is not a reference to personal property, which is your stuff.

They went away from the source because the endgame in what Marx wrote is 1. Impratical and 2. Not a good thing (even though stalinism and all of those were a disaster too)
Plain and simple.

Karl Marx wasn't even outright critical of Capitalism, in fact he praised some of the aspects it generated, but only up until a certain point. Beyond a certain point there was just this system that was expanding for the sake of it, serving those who owned the means of production, at the expense of the working class. Today it is also obvious that this goes for the natural environment as well.

Another little capitalistic secret that no socialist likes to tell you about.

Capitalism improved the life of almost everyone in the last 150-200 years after some adjustments. See how you ancestors lived in from 1600 until 1850, and from 1850 until now. It's undeniable that capitalism and industrial revolution generated technological advancements that was almost impossible to have under a centralized economic system. And after some time this things went down the maslow piramid of priorities for almost everyone. So now we can complaint about other important things like if the Last Jedi is a good or a bad movie instead of harvest/hunt our next meal.

Poverty felt more in the last 40 years than in every single period of human history.

You have to thing statistically. And guess what... unless you live in some REALLY fucked up country and/or in a really dire condition you are the "1%".

It seems to me that this almost phobic cynicism towards Socialism is a very American phenomenon, and I can't really blame them after many decades of fear mongering of so-called Socialism. And of course in the present day, when you have a lot of outrage news that equates Socialists with weirdos, SJWs, etc. There were people in America, in the past who rose up against Capitalists, the robber barons; and these people were no different than the Socialists that were in England, France, or Germany at the time. But dissatisfaction was dealt with by the rise of the police force. Many people died, not only under terrible working conditions, women as well as children, but also the people who rebelled against it.

Negative, this phobic cynism towards socialism happens in every country that experienced anything close to socialism. The problem is that almost everyone mistakes socialism with some sort of social capitalistic democracy (that... guess what... is unsustainable too)

Another socialism secret that no one likes to talk about and probably will fall like a bomb on SJW.

Socialism NEVER cared about minorities and enviromental issues.

This began as a trend only after URSS felt because anyone that lived under this shit wanted to buy a mcdonalds dollar menu in less than a minute and not wait for hours in line to buy a "fifht" grade piece of "meat" (when they have meat). So they had to refocus or disapear.

For the rest, see the second part of my answer,

Nowadays we live somewhat comfortable at the expense of the third-world, as well as China. Just check out the conditions these people live under, and then tell me that this Capitalistic, neoliberal system is in any way in favor of human prosperity, both material and non-material. But America, from what I have seen and read, is also in a terrible state; the great rise in homelessness, gentrification, the epidemic abuse of substances, the elderly, poor and disabled that get screwed over, the rise in suicides and violence towards others, the decline of a feeling of community, the overall hopelessness of the average person who tries to hold his head above the water in this neoliberal nightmare.

Negative again, captalism main goal wasn't do distribute wealth but it's undeniable that capitalism, free market and competition brought almost a century and a half of life of improvements never seen in human history to almost everyone.
That doesn't mean that we don't have to tackle the other issues. But is WAY EASIER to do that in this "neoliberal nightmare" than in any other system.

People who may not be in favor of this system have to live under it, and cannot currently escape it. They have to make use of certain means to spread awareness of the problems it creates. If you were a peasant in feudal times didn't mean you had to like living under these conditions. There are plenty of films, music, literature, and indeed even video games that expose the system we live under. Take the cyberpunk genre for example. How many times do we complain, on this very forum, about the exploitation of the consumer per week? Well, that is because of this very system that is in place people. We all complain, but not everybody is willing to put their finger on the problem. Even Oddworld's creator, Lorne Lanning, said that Capitalism has been detrimental to gaming. Why? Because it needs growth, just like a cancer.

I don't even consider myself a socialist or communist. In fact, I'm leaning towards Anarchism. But I have to give credit to Karl Marx, as he was right about a lot of things, for instance that economic upheavals are endemic in a Capitalist society.

You may not like to live under it, but it's undeniable and wonderful that today you can talk about it at a no cost internet forum in you cellphone, without having to deal with a Stazi like police/ Party hunting you

And as i said before, Marx was right as a broken clock twice a day
Every single competent economic student from a good orthodoxic economic school can pinpoint out every single fallacy and implode Das Capital. This isn't even in debate.

 

[EightBit Man]

Gp1 *reads snippets* With all due respect, but you have not really disproven anything. In 2013 a study was done, and came to the conclusion that only 13% of people were actively engaged with their work. Since work is a large portion of many people's lives, this is something horrifying isn't it? If that doesn't confirm Marx's theory of alienating labor I don't know what is. Anyway, I'm not going into a full or endless discussion regarding Capitalism vs. it's detractors. I'll be the first person to admit that I was a apologist for Capitalism myself, wore the Ayn Rand t-shirt as if nothing else mattered; if somebody was in trouble it was because they made the wrong choices. I have been there; I was a egotistical fuck in that regard. That was until I saw negative things happen in my own life, out of my hands, as well as other's people's lives. Things that are direct consequences to the way the system is arranged.

Who do you think publishes studies in favor of Capitalism, the dominant socio-economic order? Of course very rich and influential people want you to believe that there is nothing else possible than the way things are. Take PragerU for example, which receives large donations from some very rich folks. If you think that people are happy, I'd say the worldwide upheavals and protests tell you a different story. I already gave examples of Capitalism's greatest representative, America. Nobody tells you that the real reason as of why Mexicans want to cross the US border, nobody tells you the real reason why Venezuela is in the terrible state it is in, or the real reason why there are protests in Iraq, and nobody tells you why homelessness increased beyond the 150% mark in the UK over the last ten years while there never has been a bigger gap between the ultra rich and the rest. It is not that I have something against rich people per se; there are many rich people who are not Capitalists. I have a problem with the latter, and the way they exploit others on a daily basis.

There's also a reason why there are parallels with the 1930s and today. See, Capitalism loves to come up with solutions that may override human reason and compassion. When there is social and economic disintegration, there is a rise in far-right thinking. People are downtrodden, and want a solution, and Capitalists are happy to provide just that. Fascist regimes were funded by major backers in the 1930s. Today there is the alt-right, people who don't want to point the finger at the neoliberal economic system, something they probably never even heard of, but yet scapegoats...again; foreigners, the Jews, etc. Even America had a Nazi party at one point.

Karl Marx wasn't the only person either, critical of Capitalism, a fairly recent system. There was Max Weber's masterwork The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, the poets like William Blake, who condemned industrialism, etc.

It is always funny when Socialists and Anarchists are accused being utopian, while Capitalism is nothing but that, with it's bank notes that are a promise to pay, and yearly economic forecasts that must be in the positive.

 

[Gp1]

Considering a full employment economy, were the burocracy dont mess with the economy those 87% are free to find a job were they fell engaged.
One of the main flaws of the alienating labor and surpluss value is not consider enterpreneurship, risk taking, work specialization, self employment, free flow of capital, and business administration et al. (everything from earned value in general, not to say everything that makes capitalism... capitalism) as a something that contributes in wealth creation.

And who do you think publishes studies against capitalism? The same academy sponsored by the same rich and influential people.

Capitalism transformed everyone in wage workers in some countries and by doing so it decreased poverty in way never saw by humankind. The problem lies were you dont have capitalism because of unprofitablity.
I never said that the system is perfect and did not deserve any criticism. But, of those who are criticising, the great vocal majority don't have the minimal economical background to discuss the subject nor propose a viable and reasonable solution.

 

[Rolling_Start]

This idea that we need to play this game and treat it seriously to understand a failed ideology is laughable.

Fortunately that didn't happen. But you're free to pretend it did.

 

[Rolling_Start]

I'm starting to understand why universal healthcare and education is seen as a contentious issue in America, alone amongst all its developed peers.

Economic eugenics is basically the heart of right wing American social policy*.

*The left pretends it isn't but typically selects Clintons and Kennedys that are basically the same thing.

 

[GreyHorace]

A picture of the developers' studio. Check out the gnarly portrait of Stalin!

Look, people are free to have whatever political opinions they want and hang whatever portrait they want on their wall. But Jesus Christ, revering a mass murdering piece of shit like Stalin?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Pretty sure it's one of those things done for the sake of irony. I find it hard to believe that true believers in Stalin made this game, honestly.

 

[Deleted member 774430]

It's difficult to understand from an outside perspective but many russians feel nostalgia for communism.

I don't know if this is the case or just meant to be a giant joke though.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I doubt a group of serious communists would be moving their studio to London for better access to talent and tax breaks.

Making games under threat of nuclear war

Fears of nuclear war or state occupation is not something I expected to be discussed in this interview.I met with Kaur …

www.gamesindustry.biz

 

[Teslerum]

Pretty sure it's one of those things done for the sake of irony. I find it hard to believe that true believers in Stalin made this game, honestly.

If it's irony they're living that irony every possible second. Fact is they shout out to Marx and Engels, they consider themselves a gathering of socialists (And that has NOTHING to do with Disco Elysium btw. They did and said that before DE was a thing), they hired known socialists (regardless of that they're part of the dirty left) for the voice acting, they converse in socialist circles (or at least are good friends with them over social media).

I mean really, they would have been doing the same ironic joke for over 11 years without deviating according to you.

Fact is, you have to make assumptions at this point that they're not socialists. They are. As already mentioned multiple times. Just because you are capable of making fun of yourself or engage in captialism doesn't mean you're not that thing.

Comedians usually have pretty strong political opinions, but most good ones still manage to do the same.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

If it's irony they're living that irony every possible second. Fact is they shout out to Marx and Engels, they consider themselves a gathering of socialists (And that has NOTHING to do with Disco Elysium btw. They did and said that before DE was a thing), they hired known socialists (regardless of that they're part of the dirty left) for the voice acting, they converse in socialist circles (or at least are good friends with them over social media).

I mean really, they would have been doing the same ironic joke for over 11 years without deviating according to you.

Fact is, you have to make assumptions at this point that they're not socialists. They are. As already mentioned multiple times. Just because you are capable of making fun of yourself or engage in captialism doesn't mean you're not that thing.

Comedians usually have pretty strong political opinions, but most good ones still manage to do the same.

I'm sure they have socialists on their team, which is fine. I doubt even their socialist-minded team members actually look up to Stalin, though. They'd have to be complete idiots and I doubt people that stupid had a major influence on the game.

 

[The Scrivener]

So cool.

 

[brap]

A picture of the developers' studio. Check out the gnarly portrait of Stalin!

Look, people are free to have whatever political opinions they want and hang whatever portrait they want on their wall. But Jesus Christ, revering a mass murdering piece of shit like Stalin?

I'm gonna get a pic of hitler in my house. Just for teh iron kneez XDD

 

[Barakov]

These people are high on the smell of their own farts.

 

[CrisPy2019]

I never understood that people like communism.

I mean in capitalism the powerful greedy assholes control the world. And the rest gets a bit of the cake so they shut up and let it happen.

In communism the greedy powerful assholes control the world and the rest basically is on minimum life support.

Where do people think all the 30y old Russian billionaires come from. Work? Lol

It's the offspring of generals, ministers, politicians etc. People that took control over oilfields and all of that. People that stole the money from the soviet population.
That's 99% of Russian billionaires for you.

 

[A.M.A.K]

 

[Dontero]

In 2013 a study was done, and came to the conclusion that only 13% of people were actively engaged with their work. Since work is a large portion of many people's lives, this is something horrifying isn't it? If that doesn't confirm Marx's theory of alienating labor I don't know what is.

That is completely socialistic thinking. You go to work for maybe 8 hours a day. Up until around 18 you are not worker and after 65-70 you are also not a worker. So the worker you are is just maybe at best 1/5 of your life. 4/5 of that life you are consumer.

Any normal human think that work is for money to do something else.
Work is not way of life, this is something socialist achieved. They changed most of people from people into workers as if work was goal of life.

Up until 19 century it was verboten to ask someone where they work and how much they earn. Then came socialists and your work became you.

The only way for progress to be made is to exploit workers. Because that exploitation means that you can buy boots cheaper and your phone costs less.

Thanks to socialism on other hand you have now farmer subsidies and food prices which should be dirt cheap now due to how efficient farming has become prices still hang on.

I live in Poland. When we get into EU we had to force farmers to stop producing milk because oversupply of it would crash the price of milk for everyone in EU.

If you think you are "worker" first instead of consumer you agree that those people should live well. But if you are normal and you are consumer you would be outraged that goverment disallowed for prices to fall down which directly hurts you and the poorest people. Moreover some of those farms without government intervention would shut down while rest would increase their efficiency even more and exploit their workers more and more. Which means same work that was done by 10 people would be done by 5 which means 5 people would be able to do something else instead which is why most of us don't work on farms today in order to grow enough food for everyone.

 

[tassletine]

Engals and Marx aren't responsible for 400 million deaths. If the Disco Elysium devs called out Stalin and Mao that would be a little different, but they didn't.

This is like getting mad at people shouting out Jesus and then trying to equivocate Christianity with the Nazis or whatever, or getting mad at people for shouting out Martin Luther King Jr. and then going on about "BLM HATES COPS!!!1!"

Nah it’s not. They said it to sound intellectual and edgy. Thanking Jesus is just thanking God (if you believe In it) — everyone understands the comment. This sort of thing is designed to spark interest and spread their propaganda.

 

[Paperboy]

I bet the developers think Communism is great as long as they don't have to live in it.

 

[Rolling_Start]

A picture of the developers' studio. Check out the gnarly portrait of Stalin!

There's certainly a lot to process in this image.

Those five hash tags. Wow. Gaming in the 90s felt so ... different.

 

[EightBit Man]

Look, people are free to have whatever political opinions they want and hang whatever portrait they want on their wall. But Jesus Christ, revering a mass murdering piece of shit like Stalin?

Agreed. We call these people tankies. I don't understand why people venerate leaders in any way. What I would venerate however, would be the people of the Paris Commune, which was a completely democratically-ran community, or the Spanish Catalonia which George Orwell wrote about.

 

[GC_DALBEN]

He can believe in whatever he wants (even something as stupid as comunism), its his choice. I wont buy this game.

Sorry about my english .

 

[DarkestHour]

I don't give two shits what a game developer's political thinkings are.

 

[oagboghi2]

Fortunately that didn't happen. But you're free to pretend it did.

What didn’t happen? Communism didn’t fail?

 

[Rolling_Start]

What didn’t happen? Communism didn’t fail?

What you said didn't happen:

"This idea that we need to play this game and treat it seriously to understand a failed ideology is laughable. "

You don't need to play the game, or treat it seriously, to understand that societies based upon a Marxist ideology fail. And I thought giving a shoutout to hugely influential thinkers who didn't mean for mass killings to happen didn't seem to warrant the reaction of some folks here.

Though celebrating the greatness of Stalin as they have, either for edge or for real, is on a whole different level now so I no longer to care to argue any of the previous points.

Can't say I want to play the game any more, regardless of how good it is.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I don't give two shits what a game developer's political thinkings are.

I mean, me either. But it's hard to ignore something so bizarre. I mean, it's like they went out of their way to get a Stalin portrait in pictures. Lol.

 

[Kadayi]

I mean, me either. But it's hard to ignore something so bizarre. I mean, it's like they went out of their way to get a Stalin portrait in pictures. Lol.

TBH. I think they probably saw this thread and are Trolling the easily triggered at the point in time. Apparently they're succeeding.

 

[nemiroff]

TBH. I think they probably saw this thread and are Trolling the easily triggered at the point in time. Apparently they're succeeding.

Other developers should take up on this brilliant idea. Nintendo could f.ex. say the company has turned pro-Nazi. And it's perfectly fine because they are going to have so much fun with it!

 

[Kadayi]

Other developers should take up on this brilliant idea. Nintendo could f.ex. say the company has turned pro-Nazi. And it's perfectly fine because they are going to have so much fun with it!

Anyone who has actually played the game would know they massively send up socialism to the extreme in it. This presumption by many in this thread that they're somehow advocates for it hilarious.

 

[MiguelItUp]

TBH. I think they probably saw this thread and are Trolling the easily triggered at the point in time. Apparently they're succeeding.

Honestly, I REALLY hope so. That'd be phenomenal, lmao.

 

[DR2K]

I agree. Islam is right about women

Sure Jan, you came to post on Neogaf because of your love for women.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Anyone who has actually played the game would know they massively send up socialism to the extreme in it. This presumption by many in this thread that they're somehow advocates for it hilarious.

Yea, it is clear they are trolling - but any reason to justify the preconceived hate boner people in this thread have will be taken.

 

[Handel]

This thread still being alive spreading misinformation is fucking shameful. Learn about irony, and actually play the amazing game to see how it handles these topics. This place acting like Resetera ITT, taking perceived political stances as reason to shun art/artists.

 

[Investor9872]

Just bring the game out on the consoles already, so that I can see why all of the people on here are talking and raging about communism and politics!

 

[Teslerum]

This thread still being alive spreading misinformation is fucking shameful. Learn about irony, and actually play the amazing game to see how it handles these topics. This place acting like Resetera ITT, taking perceived political stances as reason to shun art/artists.

Right back at you.

This isn't about the game itself (which is my GOTY btw.), this is about the developers and the concerns people have with them. Learn to seperate the art from the artists. Disco Elysium is a great game and takes a humorous approach to every political stance. It's developers are also outspoken socialists (and again since long before Disco Elysium was even a thing). That's about it.

If this thread was full of people attacking the game itself I'd agree with you, but that's not the case at all.

 

[Handel]

Right back at you.

This isn't about the game itself (which is my GOTY btw.), this is about the developers and the concerns people have with them. Learn to seperate the art from the artists. Disco Elysium is a great game and takes a humorous approach to every political stance. It's developers are also outspoken socialists (and again since long before Disco Elysium was even a thing). That's about it.

If this thread was full of people attacking the game itself I'd agree with you, but that's not the case at all.

Multiple people on this page alone have said they lost interest in playing the game because of their perception of the developers political stance. This thread itself was made in bad faith by someone who hadn't played the game to have any educated opinion on it's stances and how that can inform their view of what the dev's are going for.

Learn nuance, and how to judge people by proper concrete actions not your speculation on their viewpoints. Appreciation of thought is not equivalent to endorsement of harmful ideology. Again, like REE y'all are showing your asses with jumping to conclusions about the political makeup of an entire developer without anything concrete to support your position. People are way more complicated then that.

 

[Teslerum]

. Again, like REE y'all are showing your asses with jumping to conclusions about the political makeup of an entire developer without anything concrete to support your position.

First off: People are taking a stance against the developer, not the game. Just as REEEEEEra is completly free to not support right leaning developers, so are Neogaf members free to do the same. That's not what's annoying about REEEEra, things like wanting to cancel people, personal attacks and bullying is.

Secondly, I'm not assuming shit about the developer. I suggest actually reading the thread, including the bit where I posted the developers mission statement from a few years ago.

ZA/UM is a cultural movement uniting artists, writers, entrepreneurs and socialists, established 2009. Named after the Russian futurists' language of gods and birds it does popular and avant-garde. Creates and markets. In 2014 ZA/UM started Nihilist.fm - an online publishing platform. In print media, ZA/UM has published four national bestsellers.

Again, I'm not saying shit about the political make-up of the developer. It's how they represent themselves. Do you suggest they're lying?

Also just to check here:

Appreciation of thought is not equivalent to endorsement of harmful ideology.

On this very page there's a instagram post, where they praise a picture of fucking STALIN. That's not just walking a fine line between endorsing harmful ideology and appreactation of thought. That's fucking destroying it with an RPG. As brap already mentioned. How would people react if they did the same thing with a picture of Hitler?

 

[Greedings]

But is the game good?

 

[Handel]

First off: People are taking a stance against the developer, not the game. Just as REEEEEEra is completly free to not support right leaning developers, so are Neogaf members free to do the same. That's not what's annoying about REEEEra, things like wanting to cancel people, personal attacks and bullying is.

Choosing to not buy the game because of the perceived politics of the developer is taking a stance against the game. Like ERA, you're not separating the art from the artist, and taking a militant approach against any work you perceive as being made by someone opposite you politically.

Right-wing REE is what you're arguing.

Secondly, I'm not assuming shit about the developer. I suggest actually reading the thread, including the bit where I posted the developers mission statement from a few years ago.



Again, I'm not saying shit about the political make-up of the developer. It's how they represent themselves. Do you suggest they're lying?

Socialism=/=communism. Socialism exists in many forms, some of which are currently creating the most equal and happy countries in the world :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model
The only response this part of your post actually deserved:

On this very page there's a instagram post, where they praise a picture of fucking STALIN. That's not just walking a fine line between endorsing harmful ideology and appreactation of thought. That's fucking destroying it with an RPG. As brap already mentioned. How would people react if they did the same thing with a picture of Hitler?

What praise? They have a fuckkng fursuit on and put a fursona tag right after the Stalin tag. They're clearly trolling to me, in that one and the "three great men" one. Inspiration can come from many places, and a large inspiration can come from those you hate, that represent failed experiments in broader ideologies. You're again jumping to conclusions on their political stances based off bullshit, because you have a black and white view of things. Again, gain some measure of nuance.

Not going to respond to you again.

 

[Teslerum]

Not going to respond to you again.

Considering you had no response, did no actual research into ZA/UM yourself and are assuming shit about others (while accusing others of doing so) that's probably a good idea.



(BTW: Hilarious you're accusing me of taking a stance against the game, when I paid full price on launch, praised the game itself here and consider it my Game of the Year. But I guess whatever floats your boat.)

 

[Fuz]

It's developers are also outspoken socialists

So... good guys.

 

[iorek21]

 

[Dr. Claus]

As Kadayi said:

TBH. I think they probably saw this thread and are Trolling the easily triggered at the point in time. Apparently they're succeeding.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

This type of communist shit posting is very typical for online lefty spaces. Some people are joking and some people are genuinely tankies hiding their power level. A lot more than you'd like and it is getting harder and harder to distinguish the two when "kill landlords" and "ACAB" get tossed around like nothing. If their game is any indication they definitely like to be edgy and push the line. I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt because of that. Especially when you're combining hashtags like "stalin" and "fursona."