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Dirt 5 devs: Next gen GPU differences don't impact development, but have efficiencies when optimising and tuning

cormack12

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Source: https://gamingbolt.com/ps5-and-xbox...t-really-have-a-development-impact-dirt-5-dev

In the next-gen race, while the PS5 boasts its blazingly fast SSD, the Xbox Series X touts other advantages, chief among them being its GPU, which at 12 teraflops, outmatches the PS5’s 10.28 teraflops of GPU power, at least as far as pure numbers are concerned.

According to DiRT 5 lead designer Mike Moreton, that’s not going to be the case. Speaking in any interview with GamingBolt, when asked about the difference between the GPUs of the two next-gen consoles, Moreton said, “From development and gameplay perspectives, it doesn’t really have an impact. When it comes to tuning, tweaking and optimizations at the end of a game, it might mean slightly less work for one platform.”
 

BiGBoSSMk23

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I think we'll see and hear more and more about this slightly advantage as they call it over the years with that one platform.



back in 2013 we were hearing how the PS4 was mopping the floor with the One, and the power difference was gigantic by comparison. The results were some differences in resolution, but not a deal breaker for Xbox owners.

this time the power gap is marginal.

"slightly less work"

we're not gonna see or hear shit.
 

CobraXT

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king zell a legit leaker and the owner of the biggest arabic gaming website once
said the difference is similar to the difference we see now between the PS4Pro and
the Xbox 1X .. it will be noticeable but no to the extant that one game will run 30 fps
on the ps5 and 60 fps on the XSX
 
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Bergoglio

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back in 2013 we were hearing how the PS4 was mopping the floor with the One, and the power difference was gigantic by comparison. The results were some differences in resolution, but not a deal breaker for Xbox owners.

this time the power gap is marginal.

"slightly less work"

we're not gonna see or hear shit.

I spent 500 euros for an xbox, it's my console, so I hope it's better than PS5 as it was promoted as the best performing console. I'm not interested in a huge gap that can't exist, but a significant improvement over time, yes, I think it's possibile. It's my right to believe and hope for it. Otherwise, patience.
 

LordOfChaos

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So basically: Close enough to make them even, by way of spending a bit more time tuning one.

Not the first developer to say the difference would be smaller in the end than what the numbers would say, and the numbers had already said under half the difference of the PS4/XBO generation.

If a first party tuned for the Series X heavily, of course it would still have a higher output.

Everyone happy with that?
Narrator: No
 

danielJackson

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I spent 500 euros for an xbox, it's my console, so I hope it's better than PS5 as it was promoted as the best performing console. I'm not interested in a huge gap that can't exist, but a significant improvement over time, yes, I think it's possibile. It's my right to believe and hope for it. Otherwise, patience.

Really weird logic

So you say you enjoy less from xbox, if PS5 isnt as weak as you hoped? :messenger_tears_of_joy: That is really sad.

Why dont you just enjoy from the console you have, are you really that insecure or why does it make any sense that having differences on console you DONT own would change how you feel about the one you OWN?

do you buy console for games or for staring analyze videos?

Prepare for being dissapointed: talent of devs alone means more than spec differences
 
Feb 3, 2020
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back in 2013 we were hearing how the PS4 was mopping the floor with the One, and the power difference was gigantic by comparison. The results were some differences in resolution, but not a deal breaker for Xbox owners.

this time the power gap is marginal.

"slightly less work"

we're not gonna see or hear shit.
2 diferences:

1) In 2013 we didn't had Xbox Series S equivalent, something like a Xbox One Mini with 3x less GPU performance

2) 1,84 TFLOPs / 1,31 TFLOPs = 40,45%
12,15 TFLOPS / 10,28 TFLOPS = 18,19%

Too much closer.

There are a lot of other points to discuss, but of course, it's not the same 2013 situation.
 
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CobraXT

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2 diferences:

1) In 2013 we didn't had Xbox Series S equivalent, something like a Xbox One Mini with 3x less GPU performance

2) 1,84 TFLOPs / 1,31 TFLOPs = 40,45%
12,15 TFLOPS / 10,28 TFLOPS = 18,19%

Too much closer.

There are a lot of other points to discuss, but of course, it's not the same 2013 situation.

Albert Penello said in order to overclock the PS5 GPU to 10.2 TF you can't get to 60fps on your games
which means the CPU will downclock at that number
 
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Romulus

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Mar 21, 2019
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I spent 500 euros for an xbox, it's my console, so I hope it's better than PS5 as it was promoted as the best performing console. I'm not interested in a huge gap that can't exist, but a significant improvement over time, yes, I think it's possibile. It's my right to believe and hope for it. Otherwise, patience.

I think 95% of the time itll be XSX performing slightly better on the dynamic resolution scaler. So when intense action happens for a few seconds ps5 might drop to 1800p for example while XSX holds a touch higher. Then back to native 4k for the majority of the experience. Completely unnoticeable.

And by the time we see anything at all beyond that consistently, mid gen consoles will be out. Sony nor xbox will allow the other competitor to have a 2x power option in 2023ish. So expect both at the table with a high performance model. XSX+ and ps5 pro
 
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LordOfChaos

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Albert Penello said in order to overclock the PS5 GPU to 10.2 TF you can't get to 60fps on your games


For one, he's giving a hypothetical, as he has no game that's struggling to hit 60fps on the PS5 nor probably knows more about how its dev kits are going than any of us (reports have been quite good, and that it's the more mature one). Two, he says a lot of stuff.

"People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard APIs that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we dont know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way were giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. " Narrator: They gave up a 40% advantage to Sony that generation.

And "What happens when" != "Albert Penello said in order to overclock the PS5 GPU to 10.2 TF you can't get to 60fps on your games", you posted the tweet first but lost that context, it's a hypothetical he has no hardware to base it on.

What Sony said publicly, and I don't think they could lie and get away with this, is the hardware will run near the top of its clocks nearly all the time, and in a worst case scenario dropping a few percentage on clocks will reduce power by 10%. This doesn't happen over the span of minutes and hours, smartshift can change every 2ms, that's 8 changes per 16ms per frame in a 60fps game.
 
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sircaw

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A local pond.
I spent 500 euros for an xbox, it's my console, so I hope it's better than PS5 as it was promoted as the best performing console. I'm not interested in a huge gap that can't exist, but a significant improvement over time, yes, I think it's possibile. It's my right to believe and hope for it. Otherwise, patience.

Strange, very strange.
 

bitbydeath

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I spent 500 euros for an xbox, it's my console, so I hope it's better than PS5 as it was promoted as the best performing console. I'm not interested in a huge gap that can't exist, but a significant improvement over time, yes, I think it's possibile. It's my right to believe and hope for it. Otherwise, patience.

That’s your own fault.
Devs and insiders have been hinting forever that PS5 performs better and you chose to bury your head in the sand.
 
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Albert Penello said in order to overclock the PS5 GPU to 10.2 TF you can't get to 60fps on your games
which means the CPU will downclock at that number
Overclock != Continuous Boost. Started wrong, ended wrong.
 
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Riky

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May 11, 2013
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I spent 500 euros for an xbox, it's my console, so I hope it's better than PS5 as it was promoted as the best performing console. I'm not interested in a huge gap that can't exist, but a significant improvement over time, yes, I think it's possibile. It's my right to believe and hope for it. Otherwise, patience.

You'll be satisfied, as next gen engines get more demanding the XSX will hold up a lot better. Better GPU, faster CPU, faster memory bandwidth and no down clocking when you hit a power limit.

You got a better console for the same price👍
 

ScaryBrandon

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back in 2013 we were hearing how the PS4 was mopping the floor with the One, and the power difference was gigantic by comparison. The results were some differences in resolution, but not a deal breaker for Xbox owners.

this time the power gap is marginal.

"slightly less work"

we're not gonna see or hear shit.
As long as you keep in mind that every ps5 multiplat is slightly inferior.
 

Aladin

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Jul 26, 2020
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2 diferences:

1) In 2013 we didn't had Xbox Series S equivalent, something like a Xbox One Mini with 3x less GPU performance

2) 1,84 TFLOPs / 1,31 TFLOPs = 40,45%
12,15 TFLOPS / 10,28 TFLOPS = 18,19%

Too much closer.

There are a lot of other points to discuss, but of course, it's not the same 2013 situation.
No chance, teraflops at different frequencies cannot be compared. There is already a DF video on this.
 

Bergoglio

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That’s your own fault.
Devs and insiders have been hinting forever that PS5 performs better and you chose to bury your head in the sand.

Specs are specs. Facts.

Devs speaks like that because PS5 offer a better environment to develop, but not superior numbers.

Multiplatform are really important for this reason.
 
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itsnotme

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You'll be satisfied, as next gen engines get more demanding the XSX will hold up a lot better. Better GPU, faster CPU, faster memory bandwidth and no down clocking when you hit a power limit.

You got a better console for the same price👍
Better(?) GPU: ok
Faster CPU: PS5 takes more off the CPU so I'd bet you it has an advantage in that department
Faster memory bandwidth: sure... Except almost 40% of it is slower than PS5
Sorry to break it to you but the power limit is enough for both CPU and GPU to run at full power 😁
 

BabyYoda

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Their game looks like it was programmed entirely on the CPU
Although it doesn't look next-gen, I would say it is pretty and looks fun, no idea why it's getting as much negativity as it is, I'm hard pressed to think of a better looking multi-format racer honestly. A couple of the vids didn't exactly sell the game, sure, but keep in mind each track can have multiple times of day and weather, certain times of day just don't look that nice, even in real life.

I predict 8's and 9's.
 
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bitbydeath

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Specs are specs. Facts.

Devs speaks like that because PS5 offer a better environment to develop, but not superior numbers.

Multiplatform are really important for this reason.

It has been explained so many times why those numbers don't mean much in the final result.
CryTek, Epic, even Mark Cerny himself went over this.

XSX is limited to a 50GB drive as well so once the higher 8K textures start being used and PS5 flexes it's SSD and 100GB drive the differences will show in 3rd parties even more.
 

Bergoglio

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It has been explained so many times why those numbers don't mean much in the final result.
CryTek, Epic, even Mark Cerny himself went over this.

XSX is limited to a 50GB drive as well so once the higher 8K textures start being used and PS5 flexes it's SSD and 100GB drive the differences will show in 3rd parties even more.

The main res for multiplat titles will be 1440p/4k at 60 fps over the next years. 8K are bullshit for nerd. PS5 will have the edge over the loading times and that's all. Please stop dreaming about this.

Seems that this magic SSD it's going to replace EVERYTHING about a console.

Tomorrow we'll hear that it will also be able to decrease the consumption of a power supply.
 

bitbydeath

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The main res for multiplat titles will be 1440p/4k at 60 fps over the next years. 8K are bullshit for nerd. PS5 will have the edge over the loading times and that's all. Please stop dreaming about this.

Seems that this magic SSD it's going to replace EVERYTHING about a console.

Tomorrow we'll hear that it will also be able to decrease the consumption of a power supply.

The SSD is used for streaming 8K textures, their is nothing magical about that, it’s raw power.
 

Bergoglio

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The SSD is used for streaming 8K textures, their is nothing magical about that, it’s raw power.

Can it pump more sophisticated particle effects? Offering power for more complex animations? Handle better physics? Is it supportive for better AI?

No, but at least you will gain 5 seconds between each level on multiplat titles.
 

BabyYoda

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back in 2013 we were hearing how the PS4 was mopping the floor with the One, and the power difference was gigantic by comparison. The results were some differences in resolution, but not a deal breaker for Xbox owners.

this time the power gap is marginal.

"slightly less work"

we're not gonna see or hear shit.
What if the Xbox one reached it's TF count by oc'ing to ridiculous levels and yet still had the gap with the PS4 that it had? It would've been so much worse than it was. Yeah the gap is smaller this time, perhaps halved, but keep in mind, oc'ing has rather large diminishing returns, not mention it shortens the life of the silicon.

My takeaway from Codemasters comment here is that reaching a stable 30/60/120fps is going to be easier on the Series X, wanna bet a lot more multi-format games follow that logic?! I'll be shocked if it isn't the case, the only time the PS5 will have superior fps imo, will be if they lower some settings. Either way, it's going to upset some people on here...
 
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Bergoglio

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Among other things, my argument is supported by Mike Moreton himself: "From development and gameplay perspectives, it doesn't really have an impact. When it comes to tuning, tweaking and optimizations at the end of a game, it might mean slightly less work for one platform. "

All developers are extremely happy with PS5 development because of API, SDK drivers and tools but this is just a temporary advantage. The issue is that MS moved from an Xbox only SDK to an Xbox/Pc one which will make it incredibly easy to have games in both when the kinks are worked out. Its a new GDK focused on both PC and Xbox. PS5s SDK is the PS4 one but updated. Which is obviously easier when you’ve been using it for 7 years.

Still, being more difficult to develop on doesn’t mean much. PS3 was hell for most devs yet there’s things on the platform which perfectly hold up a decade later. We’ll see insane shit on Series X.
 
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back in 2013 we were hearing how the PS4 was mopping the floor with the One, and the power difference was gigantic by comparison. The results were some differences in resolution, but not a deal breaker for Xbox owners.

this time the power gap is marginal.

"slightly less work"

we're not gonna see or hear shit.

To be fair it's a different World in 2020 tech wise with the likes of Dynamic Resolution Scaling, Image Reconstruction, AI anti aliasing and Variable Rate Shading (or variations of them all) all closing the gap in terms of resolution differences and overall image quality. We've also moved from comparing 720p/900p vs 900p/1080p as in we're way past the point of diminishing returns in terms of pixel density even on large 4k HDTV's. I can barely tell the difference between native 1440p and 2160p on PC with bog standard HDTV upscaling from a couple of feet away and I wear glasses. Most games on both platforms will be indistinguishable visually using all the above techniques imo.
 
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bitbydeath

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Can it pump more sophisticated particle effects? Offering power for more complex animations? Handle better physics? Is it supportive for better AI?

No, but at least you will gain 5 seconds between each level on multiplat titles.

Head in the sand again. CPU performs those activities and having higher clocks will impact that.

The UE5 demo was said to be using the GPU power equivalent of Fortnite and that was demoed on a PS5 with an unfinished engine. There is plenty of room in the GPU/CPU for making a full game with 8K.

And this was before Sony acquired Oodle Texture.
 

Bergoglio

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Really weird logic

So you say you enjoy less from xbox, if PS5 isnt as weak as you hoped? :messenger_tears_of_joy: That is really sad.

Why dont you just enjoy from the console you have, are you really that insecure or why does it make any sense that having differences on console you DONT own would change how you feel about the one you OWN?

do you buy console for games or for staring analyze videos?

Prepare for being dissapointed: talent of devs alone means more than spec differences

I choose xbox with the same logic used to assemble a PC. You do this based on specs. PC gamers always look at the best performance possibile, so was I. And I chose the best console.
 
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Bergoglio

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Head in the sand again. CPU performs those activities and having higher clocks will impact that.

The UE5 demo was said to be using the GPU power equivalent of Fortnite and that was demoed on a PS5 with an unfinished engine. There is plenty of room in the GPU/CPU for making a full game with 8K.

And this was before Sony acquired Oodle Texture.

Yes, of course PS5 will reach that insane level of details. No doubt about it. It's still a 10 TF console.

It's Series X that will reach a result a bit more above.
 
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sircaw

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A local pond.
I choose xbox with the same logic used to assemble a PC. You do this based on specs. PC gamers always look at the best performance possibile, so was I. And I chose the best console.

The best console at what though, we have already been told that Assasins creed runs the same on both machines, so does the dirt game, new watchdogs too.

You have unfortunately bought into the phil spencer Pr department spin narrative. Sorry to say but you have been done like a kipper.

I mean if the machines are basically the same in performance, you are missing out on a better controller, a better ssd, fast loading, a best sound engine, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY better games,

If you had said you choose xbox because of game pass or cos you love Halo, or gears of war or preferred the controller, then fair enough, but everything you said sounds like you have been suckered in by Pr SPin.
 

Aladin

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The best console at what though, we have already been told that Assasins creed runs the same on both machines, so does the dirt game, new watchdogs too.

You have unfortunately bought into the phil spencer Pr department spin narrative. Sorry to say but you have been done like a kipper.

I mean if the machines are basically the same in performance, you are missing out on a better controller, a better ssd, fast loading, a best sound engine, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY better games,

If you had said you choose xbox because of game pass or cos you love Halo, or gears of war or preferred the controller, then fair enough, but everything you said sounds like you have been suckered in by Pr SPin.
Buddy just because one game is targeting same resolution or framerate, it doesnt mean it will hit those targets all the time on both hardware.
In console lingo, 4K means upscaled 4K. Nobody markets the rendered resolution on a console.

You would know basic stuff like this if you all came out of that echo chamber called next gen specs thread. 🤔

Anyways I am getting a series s. I am waiting for series s to humble ps5.
 
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Bergoglio

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The best console at what though, we have already been told that Assasins creed runs the same on both machines, so does the dirt game, new watchdogs too.

You have unfortunately bought into the phil spencer Pr department spin narrative. Sorry to say but you have been done like a kipper.

I mean if the machines are basically the same in performance, you are missing out on a better controller, a better ssd, fast loading, a best sound engine, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY better games,

If you had said you choose xbox because of game pass or cos you love Halo, or gears of war or preferred the controller, then fair enough, but everything you said sounds like you have been suckered in by Pr SPin.

PS5: the best place to play sequels =/= BETTER GAMES.

Same for the controller, live service, a promising sound engine and clearly gamepass.

Just my opinion.
 
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Better(?) GPU: ok
Faster CPU: PS5 takes more off the CPU so I'd bet you it has an advantage in that department
Faster memory bandwidth: sure... Except almost 40% of it is slower than PS5
Sorry to break it to you but the power limit is enough for both CPU and GPU to run at full power 😁

He posted the same thing in the next gen thread:

If anyone tries convince themselves that a 3% difference in CPU power will somehow materialize in real world results, just buy both consoles and save yourself the misery. It's going to be a long gen for some folks.