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[01011001]

This is how Xbox Series S backwards compatibility really works

UPDATE: For the authoritative take on Microsoft's new flagship console, Digital Foundry's full Xbox Series X review is …

www.eurogamer.net

the highlights:

OG Xbox games get a 3x resolution boost on both axis vs the 2x on each axis on One S (so a 9x boost overall vs. a 4x boost on One S). 480p games can reach 1440p this way.

Xbox 360 games with enhanced patches will get a 2x boost on each axis (4x boost overall vs. no boost on One S) so a 720p game will then be 1440p

and then the already talked about doubling of framerates for select titles:

We designed the Series S to enhance the Xbox One S games in a way that the Xbox One X can't do," system architect Andrew Goossen tells us. "We made it easy for existing Xbox One S games to be updated to run with double the frame-rate when played on Series S as well. When games are updated, existing games can query to determine whether they're running on the new console. And in terms of the performance, the Series S provides well over double the effective CPU and GPU performance over the Xbox One, making it pretty straightforward for the games to do this. And in fact, the Series S GPU runs the Xbox One S games with better performance than the Xbox One X."

The way Xbox One X handled non-enhanced Xbox One S titles was interesting - effectively users saw the enhanced GPU only running at half-rate, its compute units split between vertex and pixel processing. The new consoles are designed to run legacy Xbox One titles with the full power of both CPU and the new RDNA 2 GPUs.

"There's no real perf tuning necessary when you do this, and so often it's just as easy as changing three lines of code, and then the game works." Goossen adds. "Even when it's not that easy, the fixes are still pretty minor. We had one triple-A title where doubling the frame-rate really worked perfectly, except that the crowd animation was twice as fast as normal. And so, those sorts of fixes are typically very, very easy for developers to go fix. We're working with game developers and publishers to update [their titles]. It'll basically be select games that run at a doubled frame-rate on the Series S."

Some games will be able to see this functionality enabled by the developer themselves, while others may be collaborations between the game maker and Microsoft's compatibility team.

"In some cases, for more service-based games or games that are still have active communities, it'll actually be easier for the developer to do it," says Xbox director of program management, Jason Ronald. "And then in other cases, we may be able to do things at our level, on behalf of the title, similar to how we've done it in the past. These are all things that we're actively working through as we get closer to launch and we'll have more to share about specific enhancements in specific titles closer to launch."

a technical difference when it comes to back compat this time is that the Series S|X will use the full power of the hardware for these titles.
the Xbox One X only used half of its 6TF gpu for back compat titles, the Series S|X will throw their full 4 and 12 TF GPU respectively at these games with no holding back.

 

[M1chl]

Then MS is retarded to not say this.

 

[ReBurn]

So KOTOR will be ok?

 

[Senua]

Nice.

Your move Sony....






















..........














......

oh.

 

[01011001]

So KOTOR will be ok?

KOTOR should actually run at a full 60fps with no framedrops now.

even on One X the game didn't have a stable framerate, but on these new systems with their enormous CPU boost and full GPU used for back compat titles, the game should be pushed to a full 60fps at least on Series X but most likely also on Series S

 

[JimboJones]

I wouldn't mind replaying Lost Odyssey again on these new consoles, given up hope of it getting a PC release lol and the loading issues will most likely be non existent now.

 

[cireza]

Awesome work for BC titles, once again.

 

[FranXico]

Nice. This is looking like the best entry point ever into Xbox games.

 

[Mister Wolf]

So people were talking shit about the "S" for nothing.

 

[Orky]

Wasn’t it clear? We know it won’t target 4K, but 1440p.

 

[ReBurn]

Sony bots incoming....3.....2......1......

I really wish there was a turd emoji in the list so I could give one to this comment.

 

[M1chl]

Wasn’t it clear? We know it won’t target 4K, but 1440p.

Not it wasn't because MS said it's going to have X1S type of BC.

 

[Swift Hunta]

I really wish there was a turd emoji in the list so I could give one to this comment.

Am I wrong though

 

[Beer Baelly]

As expected. Why the hell wouldnt the games get bumped to 1440p plus the extra's?

 

[Redlight]

Then MS is retarded to not say this.

I think they just did.

 

[TheContact]

I really appreciate MS putting the time to do backwards compatibility and doing it well.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Man if Microsoft had an emulator to play games natively and then download this patched version if available they'd have the perfect BC solution. No more worrying about licensing or having to download a game to play it when you got the disc.

 

[Gaz]

Well done MS. Xbox really smashing it with BC.

 

[danielJackson]

This is how Xbox Series S backwards compatibility really works

UPDATE: For the authoritative take on Microsoft's new flagship console, Digital Foundry's full Xbox Series X review is …

www.eurogamer.net

the highlights:

OG Xbox games get a 3x resolution boost on both axis vs the 2x on each axis on One S (so a 9x boost overall vs. a 4x boost on One S). 480p games can reach 1440p this way.

Xbox 360 games with enhanced patches will get a 2x boost on each axis (4x boost overall vs. no boost on One S) so a 720p game will then be 1440p

and then the already talked about doubling of framerates for select titles:


a technical difference when it comes to back compat this time is that the Series S|X will use the full power of the hardware for these titles.
the Xbox One X only used half of its 6TF gpu for back compat titles, the Series S|X will throw their full 4 and 12 TF GPU respectively at these games with no holding back.

Series S doesnt have (real) BC.

We dont call ps4 BC with ps1/2 because there are few digital titles

Same with series S, I cant insert my xbox OG discs and play them just as I cant play ps2 games on ps4

Just to point out that ms fucked this up, it could have been cheap box to gain status of 2nd console into full xbox lineup, now it is worthless as we would have to buy same games again and lose option to buy used games.

Xsex BC sounds nice assuming all OG discs work too

 

[M1chl]

Man if Microsoft had an emulator to play games natively and then download this patched version if available they'd have the perfect BC solution. No more worrying about licensing or having to download a game to play it when you got the disc.

I guess that could technically patch the disc version, since you install it anyway, not redownload the whole thing, however I think when they do it officially there is still some issues with that. However it would have been nice if they do some generic emulator, which would not be tested per game basis, which would run everything, but I don't see it happening. Because then people would bitch about some weird bugs.

Series S doesnt have (real) BC.

We dont call ps4 BC with ps1/2 because there are few digital titles

Same with series S, I cant insert my xbox OG discs and play them just as I cant play ps2 games on ps4

Just to point out that ms fucked this up, it could have been cheap box to gain status of 2nd console into full xbox lineup, now it is worthless as we would have to buy same games again and lose option to buy used games.

Xsex BC sounds nice assuming all OG discs work too

They should introduce some BC pack with drive.

 

[Beer Baelly]

Just looked it up but MS already clarified this a week ago.

 

[Dr.D00p]

OG Xbox games get a 3x resolution boost on both axis vs the 2x on each axis on One S (so a 9x boost overall vs. a 4x boost on One S). 480p games can reach 1440p this way.

That looks like they are deliberately limiting OG Xbox games to 1440p (in line with the consoles marketing message) because a modern 4Tflop GPU could easily handle those games at 4K.

 

[Naked Lunch]

Really interested to see if stuff like Ace Combat 6, Lost Planet Series, and the Armored Core games will get a boosted framerate. That would be incredible.

 

[diffusionx]

Then MS is retarded to not say this.

Agreed.

If I was MS, I would also be trying to figure out how to remove that 900p resolution on all the games that have come out in the past few years. Even if this box can't do the full One X enhancements it can upgrade One games a lot.

 

[semicool]

This sound amazing for older games, nice work MS.

 

[Breakage]

Let's say,for example,I want to play the Xbox 360 game, Ninja Gaiden II. I own the physical copy. I heard that if I were to play the game on a console from the Xbox One family, my physical NG2 disc simply acts as a “key” to allow me to download the digital version of the game from the Xbox Store for free. Obviously I can't do this with Series S – because there's no optical drive. So would I have to rebuy Ninja Gaiden II from the Xbox Store?

 

[DavidGzz]

Man, that tiny box is so good. MS BC support is amazing.

 

[Panajev2001a]

That looks like they are deliberately limiting OG Xbox games to 1440p (in line with the consoles marketing message) because a modern 4Tflop GPU could easily handle those games at 4K.

Of course, they could get those games to run at 4K, but it would eat into the XSX sales... they know it, we know it... shitty decision. Same thing about BC for OG Xbox and Xbox 360 titles you may only have in disc format, etc...

What is not shitty and good is how they improved BC over what XOX provided and are making better use of the machine power this time .

 

[DavidGzz]

Of course, they could get those games to run at 4K, but it would eat into the XSX sales... they know it, we know it... shitty decision. Same thing about BC for OG Xbox and Xbox 360 titles you may only have in disc format, etc...

What is not shitty and good is how they improved BC over what XOX provided and are making better use of the machine power this time .

Are you a developer? I thought that knowledgeable people already explained that 4k could not be done because of the lower ram compared to the Xbox One X. It simply wasn't designed to output in 4k.

So yeah, you may have to buy the digital versions since it's a digital console, at least if you own old games digitally you can still play them even if they are upgraded instead of that shitty deal Sony is pulling with Spiderman and maybe other games as well.

 

[Mochilador]

Delicious.

 

[M1chl]

Let's say,for example,I want to play the Xbox 360 game, Ninja Gaiden II. I own the physical copy. I heard that if I were to play the game on a console from the Xbox One family, my physical NG2 disc simply acts as a “key” to allow me to download the digital version of the game from the Xbox Store for free. Obviously I can't do this with Series S – because there's no optical drive. So would I have to rebuy Ninja Gaiden II from the Xbox Store?

Yes

 

[FranXico]

Let's say,for example,I want to play the Xbox 360 game, Ninja Gaiden II. I own the physical copy. I heard that if I were to play the game on a console from the Xbox One family, my physical NG2 disc simply acts as a “key” to allow me to download the digital version of the game from the Xbox Store for free. Obviously I can't do this with Series S – because there's no optical drive. So would I have to rebuy Ninja Gaiden II from the Xbox Store?

It's not so interesting for people with discs mostly, but in my case, I would buy all the old games digitally without much of a problem.

 

[LeftThumbstick]

I think Xbox Series X | S will be slow out of the gate just like the XB1 launch based on current standing and PS5 hype at near max levels, but with things like this, the strategic pricing and having more raw power that they'll soon start to catch up.

People are starting to appreciate the pure effort Xbox are going to to provide ways to get into their system cheap and keep all your old games + enhance them for free.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Are you a developer? I thought that knowledgeable people already explained that 4k could not be done because of the lower ram compared to the Xbox One X. It simply wasn't designed to output in 4k.

Mate... that is a different limitation due to a configuration choice MS made (both to reduce costs and to differentiate XSS and XSX), but thanks for showing that you did not read what I posted and had the stock answer ready . Working off a script ?

Seriously, I was talking about emulation and enhancements of the selected Original Xbox titles and Xbox 360 titles. The console has enough RAM to hold a full 4K front buffer and back buffer (plus AA) and emulate those games in higher resolution (it is not like those games got a massive 4K textures patch or something).

When emulating an original Xbox title the XSS has enough rendering resources (shading power and RAM) to do them in full 4K, but they limit it to 1440p due to branding.
Yes, I have worked as a software engineer for all my adult career. Consoles wise as side project where the platform provides a low level e rough interface to have some rea console like fun (PS2 Linux kit, PS3 Linux, GBA, etc...).

 

[Breakage]

Yes

That's crazy. For me, it would be another reason to buy the XSX over the XSS.
Ninja Gaiden II is currently £24.99 / $29.99 on the store. It's ridiculous to have to pay that much again when I already have the game.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Nice, now give me Rallisport 2. And don’t make me jump through hoops to buy the older games, get everything working on the main store.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Urge to pre-order Series X increasing.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

I wish Sony cared about their legacy as Microsoft does. They must think we just started gaming in the PS3-era.

 

[M1chl]

That's crazy. For me, it would be another reason to buy the XSX over the XSS.
Ninja Gaiden II is currently £24.99 / $29.99 on the store. It's ridiculous to have to pay that much again when I already have the game.

It sucks they should release some "BC pack" with external drive or with retailers some key dump to your account.

Or just wait for GamePass listing...

 

[Nikana]

That's pretty cool they are making a profile for series S and not just being lazy.

 

[BlackProdigy]

Tides are turning...

 

[Breakage]

It sucks they should release some "BC pack" with external drive or with retailers some key dump to your account.

Or just wait for GamePass listing...

That's the my main issue with all-digital consoles. The option to use discs is completely denied to the user. Even modern laptops that lack optical drives don't completely lock users out from playing discs. Making a next gen console that has no ability to ever play discs just seems absurd, especially when you consider BC (let's not forget that current gen games also come under BC).

 

[M1chl]

That's the my main issue with all-digital consoles. The option to use discs is completely denied to the user. Even modern laptops that lack optical drives don't completely lock users out from playing discs. Making a next gen console that has no ability to ever play discs just seems absurd, especially when you consider BC (let's not forget that current gen games also come under BC).

I guess the lowest price is the key and I cannot say I see much of use for it on customers which already has xbox, is more for new commers and people with PS5, which wants that sweet GamePass deal.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

This is a unique selling point for MS and it’s great.

 

[truth411]

I wish Sony cared about their legacy as Microsoft does. They must think we just started gaming in the PS3-era.

Thats not it, This happened at the beginning of Last gen with PS4 and Xbox One. Sony don't have infinite resources, they have to be strategic and purposeful where they spend there limited amount of money. They chose to spend there resources on creating new games/experiences, in the long run, its the better strategy.
M.S. spent alot of money and labor making each X360 title compatible for the Xone and its nice, but generally speaking you buy a Next Gen console to play Next gen Games that wasn't technically possible on the previous gen.
Since the PS5 is Backwards compatible with the PS4, all PS4 games will probably run in PS4 Pro mode with Stable Framerates.
Im betting Sony will think thats good enough and focus there limited resources (In comparison to M.S.) on creating New Games. We can see the results, Sony's Game lineup for 2021 is absolute .

 

[Tazzu]

If only this thing had a disc drive, I would've bought it on day one with a PS5.

 

[DonkeyKong]

I’m liking the sound of double frame rate on some titles

 

[INC]

Wow thats pretty awesome

So 60fps bfbc2?

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Thats not it, This happened at the beginning of Last gen with PS4 and Xbox One. Sony don't have infinite resources, they have to be strategic and purposeful where they spend there limited amount of money. They chose to spend there resources on creating new games/experiences, in the long run, its the better strategy.
M.S. spent alot of money and labor making each X360 title compatible for the Xone and its nice, but generally speaking you buy a Next Gen console to play Next gen Games that wasn't technically possible on the previous gen.
Since the PS5 is Backwards compatible with the PS4, all PS4 games will probably run in PS4 Pro mode with Stable Framerates.
Im betting Sony will think thats good enough and focus there limited resources (In comparison to M.S.) on creating New Games. We can see the results, Sony's Game lineup for 2021 is absolute .

Do you mean to tell me that a multi-billion dollar company can't find the resources to put in basic emulation?

 

[M1chl]

Wow thats pretty awesome

So 60fps bfbc2?

Oh shit, hopefully!