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[adamsapple]

It's the difference between RT and non-RT maybe?

I think they've fucked up the RT on Xbox.

Looks like a difference in LoD to me, the missing grate and textured grooves on the silver panel looks like the full detail hasn't resolved.

Or maybe not a texture LoD but the RT range LoD, can't say for sure.

 

[Mr Moose]

Looks like a difference in LoD to me, the missing grate and textured grooves on the silver panel looks like the full detail hasn't resolved.

I think it's the lighting, there's shadows missing and areas not illuminated.

 

[Gamezone]

The worst PC port of 2023 is quite the achievement.

 

[Thief1987]

Half of the geometry is missing. Inconsequential difference.

 

[Three]

Wouldn't surprise me if they have fucked up the RT for Xbox version, because they clearly suck.

Why is the text on the street sign unreadably low res, not that we can read alien language anyway but still why the low res XSX texture?

 

[Mr Moose]

Half of the geometry is missing. Inconsequential difference.

It's there, just not lit up, which is probably fucked up RT lighting.

If you squint you can see the erm... Whatever those bar things are.

Why is the text on the street sign unreadably low res, not that we can read alien language anyway but still why the low res XSX texture?

It's just the shitty neon sign, looks different in different pics and even changes a bit in the video.

 

[Darsxx82]

I think they've fucked up the RT on Xbox.

I think is cleary streaming LOD . RT Is OK.

Other secctions and no diferences

 

[Heisenberg007]

Focused on analyzing the game itself, rather than analyzing the consoles since there isn't a big enough reason to write home about.

I don't mind analyzing the game itself (that's equally important), but at the same time there's plenty of differences between the two consoles that they should have paid attention to and talked about.

Here are just 5 noticeable differences in only one of the frames.

They also didn't show frame-rate performance in similar scenes on both consoles (e.g., the water area). It's important because other analysis have shown us (side-by-side) that performance differences between the 2 consoles can be up to 18%.

1. Lower-quality billboard. More artifacts/shimmering. Blurrier font on the billboard.
2. No grill on the XSX version. Lower LOD and/or draw distance issues.
3. Missing shadows on the XSX version.
4. Blurrier area, less defined edges, and lower-quality assets on XSX.
5. Fewer details -- fewer scratches and less rust -- on the XSX version.

 

[SlimySnake]

Is lumen RT lighting? Because that looks great already.

This isnt Lumens and Lumens has software realtime GI that runs without hardware RT acceleration. Lumens Hardware Accelerated GI would be your RTGI and Lumens Software GI would be your regular dynamic GI. Both look virtually identical save for more accurate AO and light bounce. Matrix in Software GI looks stunning.

 

[Mr Moose]

I think is cleary streaming LOD . RT Is OK.

Other secctions and no diferences

Might just be that area but I think its for sure the lighting, look at the pic you shared before:

Even the right part of the... Whatever the fuck that thing above the neon sign is, isn't illuminated correctly.

 

[yamaci17]

Time to turn off ray tracing again. Maybe I can run the game at native 4k 40 fps now without dropping.

we need lighting improvements for non ray traced rendering too...

 

[TrippleA345]

Bad video from Digital Foundry. Little effort.
This is not the reason I subscribed. They have one job and failed miserably.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

They need to have an RT on/off toggle for performance's sake and also possibly a 40hz option.

We know the PC version works without RT so it's not a case where the RT Is baked into the rendering engine ala Metro EE. No reason not to have it as optional, especially if it impact performance this much.

Even the series S version works without RT.

I don't really even think RT is solely responsible for the game's poor performance, especially after hearing how it's used, which I think is kinda smart, to be honest.

From what I understood, refections are mostly done in screen space with RT reflections only used as a fallback when reflected objects are off-screen.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Outside of neon signs and puddles, I just don’t see the point in ray tracing in this game. I don’t think there’s a big enough impact in the examples shown to make the loss in performance worthwhile.

 

[Darsxx82]

I don't mind analyzing the game itself (that's equally important), but at the same time there's plenty of differences between the two consoles that they should have paid attention to and talked about.

Here are just 5 noticeable differences in only one of the frames.

They also didn't show frame-rate performance in similar scenes on both consoles (e.g., the water area). It's important because other analysis have shown us (side-by-side) that performance differences between the 2 consoles can be up to 18%.

And others who compared both versions face to face have shown that they are ver y similar. Even one of them that gave PS5 an advantage corrected his results and points out the similarity of performance...

Not to mention that "that other" You say is the same one that told you that the resolution on consoles is 1440p and 1124p in each mode and that the performance on consoles in quality mode was a stable 30fps.

In the end it is the freedom of each one in whom to give more credibility.

 

[kruis]

The race has started

New patch now available for PC and tomorrow for consoles....

If the devs had to crunch to get the game out in time, now think of them working even harder to save their full price sales and reputation.

 

[Darsxx82]

Might just be that area but I think its for sure the lighting, look at the pic you shared before:

Even the right part of the... Whatever the fuck that thing above the neon sign is, isn't illuminated correctly.

I do not deny that it is strange, as you say it may be that specific area. But seeing other places and sections that do not show these differences and that in them the RT is correct.....

Personally, I would bet more for inconsistencies in the LOD.

 

[omegasc]

devs are already targeting "Pro" console models, apparently

 

[DonJimbo]

So PS5 Pro and Xbox Series XX enhanced then

 

[SlimySnake]

Outside of neon signs and puddles, I just don’t see the point in ray tracing in this game. I don’t think there’s a big enough impact in the examples shown to make the loss in performance worthwhile.

Yep. Their lighting solution is very good and they are already using ssr to complement the rt reflections. Rt has a huge hit on cpu and since this game is cpu bound I’m not sure if turning on rt by default is a good idea on console. Re4 let you turn it off and i see immediate improvement in performance. And that was just reflections.

 

[Darsxx82]

If the devs had to crunch to get the game out in time, now think of them working even harder to save their full price sales and reputation.

I think the game is going to sell a lot despite the optimization situation. It has been rated very highly on Metacritic, it is Star Wars and sequel to a great success (Fallen Order).

Of course, I do not doubt that it will help more sales that achieve a decent performance in a short time.

 

[intbal]

By all accounts, this game will be receiving "multiple" patches in the coming weeks.
These day one analysis videos have very little value.
Hopefully, DF and all the rest of them will do a complete reassessment six months from now when the game has received its final patch.
j/k, I know they won't

 

[Darsxx82]

This isnt Lumens and Lumens has software realtime GI that runs without hardware RT acceleration. Lumens Hardware Accelerated GI would be your RTGI and Lumens Software GI would be your regular dynamic GI. Both look virtually identical save for more accurate AO and light bounce. Matrix in Software GI looks stunning.

I suppose you say it because of or the PC version of Matrix, right? The console demo used Hardware RT Lumen. But of course, performance between 30-20fps.
For games with a target 60fps on console (if that exists apart from Fornite UE5) it is clear that Lumen software is a spectacular option.

 

[SlimySnake]

I suppose you say it because of or the PC version of Matrix, right? The console demo used Hardware RT Lumen. But of course, performance between 30-20fps.
For games with a target 60fps on console (if that exists apart from Fornite UE5) it is clear that Lumen software is a spectacular option.

Yeah, Alex did some tests. There is a difference but only one DF can notice while staring. That photorealistic look of the demo is retained in software Lumens.

Epic came out and straight up told everyone that they will be targeting 1080p 30 fps for hardware Lumens. While software is targeting 1440p 30 fps. That means expect a lot of 1080p and sub 1080p games if devs start using hardware instead of software lumens.

 

[aries_71]

What type of analysis is "more or less the same" resolution, "more or less the same" framerate, put the same area where both machines suffer more and compare.

Do you still believe DF ramblings are analysis?

 

[Gaiff]

PS and Xbox gamers should rally for that one instead of warring looking for barely perceptible differences. PC gamers should join them too. We all lose here.

 

[onQ123]

Why is the text on the street sign unreadably low res, not that we can read alien language anyway but still why the low res XSX texture?

VRS Baby! Variable Rate Signing

 

[Riky]

Good to see both Series X and Series S avoiding those 15fps lows by quite a margin, hopefully they can get solid framerates in time, performance mode on Series X looks like it will stay in the VRR range so that's a plus.

 

[Bojji]

Good to see both Series X and Series S avoiding those 15fps lows by quite a margin, hopefully they can get solid framerates in time, performance mode on Series X looks like it will stay in the VRR range so that's a plus.

Are they? DF didn't compare consoles in those sections. This video is just poor, they didn't even mentioned general franerate advantage of PS5 version.

 

[SlimySnake]

PS and Xbox gamers should rally for that one instead of warring looking for barely perceptible differences. PC gamers should join them too. We all lose here.

 

[onQ123]

Good to see both Series X and Series S avoiding those 15fps lows by quite a margin, hopefully they can get solid framerates in time, performance mode on Series X looks like it will stay in the VRR range so that's a plus.

I don't remember seeing them go through the water on Xbox how did you even come to this conclusion?

 

[Mr Moose]

I don't remember seeing them go through the water on Xbox how did you even come to this conclusion?

If he didn't see it, it didn't happen.

Are they? DF didn't compare consoles in those sections. This video is just poor, they didn't even mentioned general franerate advantage of PS5 version.

Even the article is shit.

Star Wars Jedi: Survivor's ray tracing impresses on PS5 - but also causes the biggest performance issues

Here's our quick look at the PS5 version of Star Wars Jedi Survivor - which is the best mode and how does the RT hold u…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[DaGwaphics]

?



Aside from the animated billboard, they look identical. Same for every other area in the video.

There is some reduced details (nothing of importance), could be changes made more for XSS (reducing geometry a bit) that got carried over. Certainly nothing anyone would notice in gameplay though.

 

[Darsxx82]

Yeah, Alex did some tests. There is a difference but only one DF can notice while staring. That photorealistic look of the demo is retained in software Lumens.

Epic came out and straight up told everyone that they will be targeting 1080p 30 fps for hardware Lumens. While software is targeting 1440p 30 fps. That means expect a lot of 1080p and sub 1080p games if devs start using hardware instead of software lumens.

Of course. The good news is that Epic TSR work very very well.

 

[Pelao]

Ray Tracing is the biggest waste of resources fad I've seen in years. There is no game where RT is worth the performance hit past a first impression of, "Yeah, that looks pretty."

 

[DaGwaphics]

Good to see both Series X and Series S avoiding those 15fps lows by quite a margin, hopefully they can get solid framerates in time, performance mode on Series X looks like it will stay in the VRR range so that's a plus.

Hopefully they get at least the fidelity mode ironed out at a nice solid 30fps, for the folks that don't have VRR. 15fps just shouldn't be a thing, the game is too much for the hardware at that point. I may be a defender of letting the devs push the limits, but my cut off is 30fps.

I will say the level of detail on XSS is still really impressive. They have packed a lot of details into the environments. It is definitely a step up from the last one.

 

[Mahavastu]

Epic came out and straight up told everyone that they will be targeting 1080p 30 fps for hardware Lumens. While software is targeting 1440p 30 fps. That means expect a lot of 1080p and sub 1080p games if devs start using hardware instead of software lumens.

Strange that the software solution is so much faster then the hardware one with pretty much the same quality.
It is usually the other way arround...

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

By all accounts, this game will be receiving "multiple" patches in the coming weeks.
These day one analysis videos have very little value.
Hopefully, DF and all the rest of them will do a complete reassessment six months from now when the game has received its final patch.
j/k, I know they won't

They would have a world of value for everyone buying on day 1...its not like we are allowed to pay our money in patch installments.

 

[Fbh]

Honestly even beyond the terrible optimization, making graphics the primary focus of a game like this seems dumb.
The gameplay is primarily centered around timing based melee combat and timing based platforming, you'd imagine the main focus would be to get it to run smoothly and then you work on making it look as good as possible within that performance target. I mean fuck it's what Respawn themselves did with Titanfall 2, they knew they had a fast paced FPS so they focused on 60fps and the end result was a game that wasn't going to win any graphics awards but still looked decent and more importantly felt great to play because it was basically locked 60fps on all consoles.

Here they seem to have taken a complete 180 on their design philosophy and now we've got nicer graphics and ray tracing at the cost of having to choose between playing at like 1080p and 30fps with drops or going all the way down below even 720p and still not even getting a locked 60fps.

 

[Jibran#one]

I'm a console gamer and in my personal opinion rt is just waste of resources , I have not played 1 game where I could say that it was justified over the performance hit

 

[Insane Metal]

It's the difference between RT and non-RT maybe?

I think they've fucked up the RT on Xbox.

Honestly, I think this is a glitch/bug or something. No reason for that difference.

 

[paulyboy81]

Honestly, I think this is a glitch/bug or something. No reason for that difference.

This.

Unless numerous other screenshots and moments from the video show similar differences elsewhere, I'd simply put it down to glitches/bugs, in a game already renowned for them.

We've had this before with numerous other games, one singular missing RT reflection on Series X for Control, even though the rest of the entire game is identical. Plus a million other examples with bugged geometry, missing textures, filtering and half a dozen other foibles.

Basically, if the versions look otherwise identical aside from the screenshot being compared, it's probably just a glitch.

 

[01011001]

Honestly, I think this is a glitch/bug or something. No reason for that difference.

wasn't there a video of the PS5 version where one texture took 15minutes to load in?
I bet this is the same issue, it's just that it's random where it happens

 

[DenchDeckard]

Hey guys, I just got of the phone with Joey Lucas from lucasfilm games...he told me that the differences I those shots is why the game is an extra 6 or so gb on ps5.

They call it the Phil Mckraken boost.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Yeah, Alex did some tests. There is a difference but only one DF can notice while staring. That photorealistic look of the demo is retained in software Lumens.

Epic came out and straight up told everyone that they will be targeting 1080p 30 fps for hardware Lumens. While software is targeting 1440p 30 fps. That means expect a lot of 1080p and sub 1080p games if devs start using hardware instead of software lumens.

Weren`t those their base resolution targets before TSR? And I think they also said that they were working on getting their engine optimized for 60fps on these consoles. Actually, they got fornite reconstructing up to 4k from a base 55% of 4K internal re on the PS5. And I think like 60% internal rez on the XSX.... I think.

 

[SlimySnake]

Weren`t those their base resolution targets before TSR? And I think they also said that they were working on getting their engine optimized for 60fps on these consoles. Actually, they got fornite reconstructing up to 4k from a base 55% of 4K internal re on the PS5. And I think like 60% internal rez on the XSX.... I think.

Yes. Internal resolution of 1440p and 1080p.

And fortnite actually drops below 1080p as well. Pixel counts on PS5 were less than 900p in high stress areas. Albeit at 60 fps. Hardware Lumens is just a resource hog. Would be better to have it on PC or mid gen consoles while focusing on making software lumens look as best as they can.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Honestly even beyond the terrible optimization, making graphics the primary focus of a game like this seems dumb.
The gameplay is primarily centered around timing based melee combat and timing based platforming, you'd imagine the main focus would be to get it to run smoothly and then you work on making it look as good as possible within that performance target. I mean fuck it's what Respawn themselves did with Titanfall 2, they knew they had a fast paced FPS so they focused on 60fps and the end result was a game that wasn't going to win any graphics awards but still looked decent and more importantly felt great to play because it was basically locked 60fps on all consoles.

Here they seem to have taken a complete 180 on their design philosophy and now we've got nicer graphics and ray tracing at the cost of having to choose between playing at like 1080p and 30fps with drops or going all the way down below even 720p and still not even getting a locked 60fps.

Fair point, but what is sad is that this game will probably go on to sell 3-4 times more than Titanfall did... and therein lies the problem and why devs never shy away from just going for a 30fps cap and focus on glitz and glamour.

I hate to say it, but Framerates has never stopped games like these from selling. The only games that really get affected by fps are fighting games, racing games and twitch shooters.

Yes. Internal resolution of 1440p and 1080p.

And fortnite actually drops below 1080p as well. Pixel counts on PS5 were less than 900p in high stress areas. Albeit at 60 fps. Hardware Lumens is just a resource hog. Would be better to have it on PC or mid gen consoles while focusing on making software lumens look as best as they can.

Crazy how software lumen is more performant on consoles than hardware lumen.

 

[SlimySnake]

Crazy how software lumen is more performant on consoles than hardware lumen.

Why is that? Software lumens is basically Software GI. Hardware Lumens is RTGI. RT is always going to be more taxing.

 

[john2gr]

At 8:21 you can easily see the awful ghosting on Cal's legs (and that's PS5 Quality Mode, artifacts get way worse in Performance Mode). It's funny when DF freezes frames on PC to showcase small artifacts you won't ever notice, yet calls these awful ghosting artifacts "good on high-resolution displays". If these artifacts are good for them, they should be calling DLSS 3 Frame Generation flawless (and not examining it frame-by-frame). This is the first game in which you can clearly see how much DF favors consoles, even though the console version of Jedi Survivor looks and runs worse than the PC version on a high-end system.

 

[01011001]

Why is that? Software lumens is basically Software GI. Hardware Lumens is RTGI. RT is always going to be more taxing.

the weird part is that it doesn't use the RT hardware...
also it's not just like any software GI, software lumen still has relatively ok RT reflections for example.

I wonder why they aren't just adding hardware acceleration with a super low preset that is equivalent quality of software lumen.