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Digital Foundry: PS5 vs PC in Assassin's Creed Valhalla

DonJuanSchlong

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You know how in some boss battles there are some annoying mobs coming along for the ride that you have to get rid of before being able to attack the main boss? That's basically you in every thread cheerleading for the guy.

No need to get so triggered buddy, really, I was just having a bit of fun since be posts the same thing over and over. ;)
I think you are triggered that you can't argue a point, so you resort to those things. I'd be mad too if I was stuck playing cyberpunk on last gen graphics without RT enabled, and at low fps. But since I'm not you, I'm good to go. So back to my question...? You gonna keep avoiding that too, or what?

LMAO perfect.
He's not the boss, but your acting like one of his minions, how cute.
 
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Sorry but no. The PS5 does NOT match a 2080ti in this game. What it does is match a 1080ti. A bit of difference there.

And this has been a best case scenario for the PS5 so far. Usually it performs worse. It's just that in this case, Valhalla performs relatively better on RDNA 2, but it's an outlier. The other 90+% of the time, it swings the other way.

1080 Ti?!



That can barely hit 38fps in Godfall @ 4K.



And 36 fps in Ass Creed: Valhalla with 'high' preset only not ultra...

So I don't know if you trying to claim these consoles are only as performant as that old card is some kind of special coping mechanism, but GTFO as it's stupid.
 
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regawdless

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There's a repeated discussion about potential gains during this gen of consoles. Maybe it needs it's own OT because that's actually an interesting discussion.
 
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1080 Ti?!



That can barely hit 38fps in Godfall @ 4K.



And 36 fps in Ass Creed: Valhalla with 'high' preset only not ultra...

So I don't know if you trying to claim these consoles are only as performant as that old card is some kind of special coping mechanism, but GTFO as it's stupid.
PS5 in asscreed is exactly like the 5700xt perf which according to your graph is exactly a 1080ti
 

KungFucius

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High end = 3060?
Fanboys have to exaggerate. Also this is AC. The game runs like ass on my 3090 and my old 3080. I mean it runs fine but I get random crashes and the client locks up and requires a reboot. Ubisoft doesn't care too much about making their games run well on PC.

I also find it ridiculous that they compare to a card that was 700 but is matched by a $400 current GPU and claim that the PS5 is amazing. This omits RT of course. It's good for a cheap console that locks you to their ecosystem. It's not worth trading down to nor is it really worth buying into just for the exclusives at least not until you can get one used at a bargain.
 
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Here you go. 1440p ultra
5700xt 20% slower than 2080ti

Nope, the res here is obviously fixed at 1440p. When comparing to PS5, the dynamic res' lowest is 1440p but it fluctuates much higher, and on average quite a bit above 1440p.

So PS5 is pushing a huge amount more pixels on average compared to the PC benched at the above res. An actual apples to apples comparison would be taking the PS5's average res and benching the PC at that res, including the significant amount of extra foliage (!) and clouds preset (the former two are not possible). In this scenario, you would require more than a 2080S to match PS5's performance.
 
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Hmmm, so that graph shows 5700 XT running closer to RTX 2080 than 1080Ti. Of course, these benchmarks are not trying to reproduce PS5 performance levels like DF is.
a 1080ti typically benches 2 or 3% more than a 2080
a 2080 typically benches 20% above a 5700xt
in this game a 2080 and 5700xt bench around the same
so in amd favored games ps5 will be around 5700xt perf which is 2080 perf
but typically a ps5 will probably bench around 5700xt which is 20% less than 2080
ps5 does not equal 2080 all the time
just amd favored games.

probably
 

Armorian

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1080 Ti?!



That can barely hit 38fps in Godfall @ 4K.


And 36 fps in Ass Creed: Valhalla with 'high' preset only not ultra...

So I don't know if you trying to claim these consoles are only as performant as that old card is some kind of special coping mechanism, but GTFO as it's stupid.

Godfall, another "partnered with AMD" game with performance that don't have any fucking sense, look where Vega 56 is compared to 1080ti across many games:




Yet in Godfall it's faster :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Shit fucks up performance on competition cards worse than gameworks. AMD produces great (overpriced|) CPUs but I'm not a fan of what they are doing in GPU market
 

Sun Blaze

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A 2080 and a 1080ti are essentially identical in performance.
That was true some years ago, but not anymore.

If you ask me, this comparison is a fool's errand as it presents a myriad of problems.

In the scene Alex compares the PS5 to PC's, it's a single scene. Not much different when I saw people on various websites take a screenshot of PS5 vs XSX and have one way above the other in that specific frame despite the fact they were largely equal for the most part.

He would have been better off with an average as well as minimums but since PS5 uses dynamic res, it's once again hard to compare.

Another issue is how NVIDIA GPU's comparatively underperform in that game in relation to AMD GPU's, making you wonder where the software bottleneck lies and if it may have been accentuated or not in that specific scene.

Finally, NVIDIA behaves oddly in this game (and AMD too, for that matter). Full screen is bugged at times, there are random massive fps drops that go on for minutes and sometimes you even have to restart the game for it to fix.

The 5700XT seems to be closest to the PS5 but Alex didn't have one on hand, so it's difficult to say how it would have fared in that specific scene.
 
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wordslaughter

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That was true some years ago, but not anymore.

If you ask me, this comparison is a fool's errand as it presents a myriad of problems.

In the scene Alex compares the PS5 to PC's, it's a single scene. Not much different when I saw people on various websites take a screenshot of PS5 vs XSX and have one way above the other in that specific frame despite the fact they were largely equal for the most part.

He would have been better off with an average as well as minimums but since PS5 uses dynamic res, it's once again hard to compare.

Another issue is how NVIDIA GPU's comparatively underperform in that game in relation to AMD GPU's, making you wonder where the software bottleneck lies and if it may have been accentuated or not in that specific scene.

Finally, NVIDIA behaves oddly in this game (and AMD too, for that matter). Full screen is bugged at times, there are random massive fps drops that go on for minutes and sometimes you even have to restart the game for it to fix.

The 5700XT seems to be closest to the PS5 but Alex didn't have one on hand, so it's difficult to say how it would have fared in that specific scene.

All your points are fair and you are right, Valhalla is an oddball. This is literally a best case scenario to be comparing the PS5 to PC hardware ( specifically Nvidia ). In the vast majority of cases the PS5 will perform quite a bit lower on the totem pole.

I think he would have been better off just comparing using PS5's recent Quality mode which locks the resolution and then try to find a dip in framerate somewhere. Maybe he started making this video before the Quality mode update was released?

Trying to compare when one game has dynamic resolution and the other doesn't is a nightmare.

Can't imagine why Alex wouldn't have had a 5700XT to test with. He should have.
 
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Sun Blaze

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All your points are fair and you are right, Valhalla is an oddball. This is literally a best case scenario to be comparing the PS5 to PC hardware ( specifically Nvidia ). In the vast majority of cases the PS5 will perform quite a bit lower on the totem pole.

I think he would have been better off just comparing using PS5's recent Quality mode which locks the resolution and then try to find a dip in framerate somewhere. Maybe he started making this video before the Quality mode update was released?

Trying to compare when one game has dynamic resolution and the other doesn't is a nightmare.

Can't imagine why Alex wouldn't have had a 5700XT to test with. He should have.
Yeah. One thing is a bit worrying however. I noticed in a lot of recent AAA games (AC Valhalla, Dirt 5, Godfall), AMD GPU's tend to perform better. Uncertain whether it will be this way going forward since including the consoles, ADM has a much bigger market share, but this is something to look out for.
 

spyshagg

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Godfall, another "partnered with AMD" game with performance that don't have any fucking sense, look where Vega 56 is compared to 1080ti across many games:


Look. I see where you are coming from with your reaction, but there are somethings you dont know about. Very few games are neutral on PC. Final results will vary per title, but Nvidia is the lead platform.


When you feel a game is over-performing on AMD, it likely was the lead platform. As you would expect, Nvidia will also mostly struggle when the game was made to suit a completely different chip design.


Another fact you may not know about, Nvidia sends teams to studios to consult and help with the Pc versions. AMD barely had money for R&D the past 10 years, let alone to march people into studios.


Another fact is, when the game doesn't really suit Nvidia cards, they release a driver that completely replaces the original games shaders with optimized ones.


Is true, all in all, the end result is that Nvidia will perform better for the customer fall reasons you know or dont know about.


Given what you learned above, most benchmarks are not really fair to AMD cards, despite having awesome hardware and chip design (John Carmark own words). But now you know.
 
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littlecat

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Well, a PC can do photo/video editing, streaming, office/work, and plays MMO and cheap PC games, etc....
When RTX 3060ti supply stables I don't see a point of comparing to console at all

The price to performance for $500 is insane. Even if you put in a $500 video card, you gotta remember - You still need a CPU, NVMe SSD, RAM, Windows, a Case, etc.

There's just no comparison.
 

Armorian

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Look. I see where you are coming from with your reaction, but there are somethings you dont know about. Very few games are neutral on PC. Final results will vary per title, but Nvidia is the lead platform.


When you feel a game is over-performing on AMD, it likely was the lead platform. As you would expect, Nvidia will also mostly struggle when the game was made to suit a completely different chip design.


Another fact you may not know about, Nvidia sends teams to studios to consult and help with the Pc versions. AMD barely had money for R&D the past 10 years, let alone to march people into studios.


Another fact is, when the game doesn't really suit Nvidia cards, they release a driver that completely replaces the original games shaders with optimized ones.


Is true, all in all, the end result is that Nvidia will perform better for the customer fall reasons you know or dont know about.


Given what you learned above, most benchmarks are not really fair to AMD cards, despite having awesome hardware and chip design (John Carmark own words). But now you know.

Thank you for your wisdom but I know most of this stuff. Games that perform much better on AMD cards are just completly unoptimized for PC straight console ports, and it is the truth since release of X1/PS4:

Killer Instincts:



290X on Par with 980ti almost when in reality...



Typical UE4 games perform great on Nv:






Yet in Godfall performance is not normal and game is "AMD partnered". How devs menaged to screw up typical UE4 performance? IDK
 

DonJuanSchlong

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The price to performance for $500 is insane. Even if you put in a $500 video card, you gotta remember - You still need a CPU, NVMe SSD, RAM, Windows, a Case, etc.

There's just no comparison.
Just about everyone buying a GPU, would have all those parts already.... Unless it's someone moving from consoles to PC/starting a new build from scratch.
 
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Lethal01

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There's a repeated discussion about potential gains during this gen of consoles. Maybe it needs it's own OT because that's actually an interesting discussion.

What's there to discuss at this point? We got most major devs agreeing that there is a bunch of optimization that could be done with the hardware to improve further games, this is what everyone expects.
 

jroc74

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Just about everyone buying a GPU, would have all those parts already.... Unless it's someone moving from consoles to PC/starting a new build from scratch.
And thats the thing, ppl building a PC from scratch exist. I got parts a few months ago and still havent put it together yet. The gpu I have is just to get me up n running, an RX 550.

I look at other builds on pcpartpicker all the time and ppl building from scratch right now is more common than some think.

For me to get to the 2080, , 3060-3080, RX 6000 level I might need a new power supply, not even sure right now. Everything else for my build should be fine.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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And thats the thing, ppl building a PC from scratch exist. I got parts a few months ago and still havent put it together yet. The gpu I have is just to get me up n running, an RX 550.

I look at other builds on pcpartpicker all the time and ppl building from scratch right now is more common than some think.

For me to get to the 2080, , 3060-3080, RX 6000 level I might need a new power supply, not even sure right now. Everything else for my build should be fine.
Just about everyone buying a GPU, would have all those parts already.... Unless it's someone moving from consoles to PC/starting a new build from scratch.
What power supply do you have?
 
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Wiktor

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Damn. I think the ridiculous lenght of previous gen has really skewed people's perception, because for how long PC has been dominating consoles.
It's natural for expensive next-gen console to at least match up to high-end PCs at launch. It would be horrible if that wasn't the case - also for PC gamers, because AAA will be designed mostly for multiplatform releases. So if PS5 couldn't keep up with PCs even at launch it would seriously hinder the rate of graphical progress.
 

DonJuanSchlong

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Damn. I think the ridiculous lenght of previous gen has really skewed people's perception, because for how long PC has been dominating consoles.
It's natural for expensive next-gen console to at least match up to high-end PCs at launch. It would be horrible if that wasn't the case - also for PC gamers, because AAA will be designed mostly for multiplatform releases. So if PS5 couldn't keep up with PCs even at launch it would seriously hinder the rate of graphical progress.
Next gen consoles matching up to HIGH end PC? High end like 3090 and 5900xt? Ummm x-doubt? The lowest end gpu in Nvidia's current 30xx series is equivalent or better than ps5 according to DF.
 

regawdless

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What's there to discuss at this point? We got most major devs agreeing that there is a bunch of optimization that could be done with the hardware to improve further games, this is what everyone expects.

There's a lot to discuss that would be interesting to me, actually. Lot of buzz words flying around that I rather broadly understand. And where I have not a lot of knowledge how much of a difference in which areas they'll make.

To say there will be improvements is a very general statement that is pretty worthless.
Or can you specify how much better it'll get in what areas?
Will we see better texture quality? Shaders? Physics? How will that manifest? What will these optimizations exactly improve compared to the games we currently see?
Do we expect the raytracing performance to increase? If so, by how much? 5%? 15%? 50%? How?
How much compute budget will be left if for example more advanced lighting systems come into play?

Or will the optimizations only make life easier for devs so they have more time for artistic choices and crafting better experiences?

I would love to get a deeper understanding of it. How much different will the improvement curve be to last gen? Because to me personally, it wasn't that much of an improvement. Infamous Second Son on PS4 Pro looks so crisp, has great particle effects, high view distance, amazing textures etc for an open world. Its not looking significantly worse than Spider-Man. I played both recently and was surprised how good Infamous looks despite being a launch window game.

Of course at this stage, most of these questions can't be answered. I would still like to dive deeper. But I guess a discussion like that would escalate in an emotional war because everyone is so invested in these boxes at the moment.
 
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Lethal01

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There's a lot to discuss that would be interesting to me, actually. Lot of buzz words flying around that I rather broadly understand. And where I have not a lot of knowledge how much of a difference in which areas they'll make.

To say there will be improvements is a very general statement that is pretty worthless.
Or can you specify how much better it'll get in what areas?

Like I said not much to discuss, we don't have our hands on these boxes so nobody is going to be like "there will be about a 30% decrease in the frame time it takes to handle drawing non-skinned geometry on Miles morales due to better utilization of the geometry engine which would leave time for denser geometry or other effects and engine optimized to use the ssd will benefit from around 2gb lower ram utilization from 3d assets"

We are nowhere near informed enough about these to talk specifics so a discussion would be fruitless unless you are talking with devs.
And all the devs have said is that they are "just scratching the surface".

Right now the fact that things will get better is pretty much the beginning and the end of the discussion.
 

bargeparty

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Just about everyone buying a GPU, would have all those parts already.... Unless it's someone moving from consoles to PC/starting a new build from scratch.

You act like people aren't being born left and right and growing up and just now hitting an age where they're buying their own stuff, be it console or pc parts.

To you everyone who uses a computer or console exists and has existed and that will never change.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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You act like people aren't being born left and right and growing up and just now hitting an age where they're buying their own stuff, be it console or pc parts.

To you everyone who uses a computer or console exists and has existed and that will never change.
So I'm guessing you didn't read my post that you literally just quoted? It might help is your read past the first sentence you know...
 
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bargeparty

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So I'm guessing you didn't read my post that you literally just quoted? It might help is your read past the first sentence you know...

I did and the way you worded it made it seem like the only case for building an entirely new pc was to move from console, since basically everyone buying a GPO already has the rest of the parts, or isn't upgrading any other parts, etc., etc.

Not my fault you have a shit argument.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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I did and the way you worded it made it seem like the only case for building an entirely new pc was to move from console, since basically everyone buying a GPO already has the rest of the parts, or isn't upgrading any other parts, etc., etc.

Not my fault you have a shit argument.
Noooo, i said exactly this.


Just about everyone buying a GPU, would have all those parts already.... Unless it's someone moving from consoles to PC/starting a new build from scratch.
I'm not sure how you somehow skipped that part? How can you say I have a shit argument, when you have shit reading comprehension? I literally have both sides of the equation right there. For those who are switching from consoles to PC, or starting a new build from scratch. Maybe you missed it, but my post was never edited either, so you can't accuse me of switching up my quote.
 
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bargeparty

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Noooo, i said exactly this.



I'm not sure how you somehow skipped that part? How can you say I have a shit argument, when you have shit reading comprehension? I literally have both sides of the equation right there. For those who are switching from consoles to PC, or starting a new build from scratch. Maybe you missed it, but my post was never edited either, so you can't accuse me of switching up my quote.

Your argument (or part of) is the ps5 isn't good value because someone can just buy a gpu for $500 while ignoring every other part of the cost with having a gaming pc.
 

DonJuanSchlong

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Your argument (or part of) is the ps5 isn't good value because someone can just buy a gpu for $500 while ignoring every other part of the cost with having a gaming pc.
Was that MY statement though? Maybe you quoted the wrong person or something? I'm not sure if you are still trying to argue for pride sake or what, but I'm confused at what you are getting at. That $400 gpu is said to be equivalent or better than ps5, so I'm not sure why you are upset with my statement. It can be an upgrade for many, or a new build for others. I don't get why you are upset with my post. I covered both sides of the story, those who are upgrading and those who are doing a fresh build.
 

Romulus

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The lowest end gpu in Nvidia's current 30xx series is equivalent or better than ps5 according to DF.

That's actually a huge compliment considering the price and that a console's main advantage is optimization, in the absolute worst case scenario currently in a time crunch. Launch window + cov19.

The ps5 and X will easily eclipse PC setups that its struggling with next year. And even more once ps4 and xb1 are dumped.
 
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SlimySnake

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Godfall, another "partnered with AMD" game with performance that don't have any fucking sense, look where Vega 56 is compared to 1080ti across many games:




Yet in Godfall it's faster :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Shit fucks up performance on competition cards worse than gameworks. AMD produces great (overpriced|) CPUs but I'm not a fan of what they are doing in GPU market
its actually not that uncommon. the 5700xt trades blows with the 2080ti in forizon horizon 4. games that are designed on consoles on AMD hardware tend to get more out of AMD cards. its not some conspiracy. some game engines are just different.
 
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