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Digital Foundry Direct: Weekly #60: Halo S2 Fixes, Square Enix IP Sale, Tink4K and John's BFI Tips

reksveks

Member
Nope you’re thinking of Axel Gneiting. Different dev.

They of course deleted their tweets after Microsoft purchased Zenimax.
It was Billy Khan I was thinking of but could be wrong. Pretty sure I haven't seen Axel's twitter page before.

Fundamentally software devs always want more power.

My comment about them deleting the tweets was just to highlight that I can't easily search for it
 
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Interesting.

They say multiple devs have told them that the Series S is a bit of a pain.

Memory constraints.
We knew that (from dev insiders) since like 3 years ago. memory constraints was always the biggest problem that could never being solved. They are so willingly daft and blinded.
 

kyliethicc

Member
It was Billy Khan I was thinking of but could be wrong. Pretty sure I haven't seen Axel's twitter page before.

Fundamentally software devs always want more power.
Axel was the one hoping for much higher amounts of RAM. Not Billy Khan.

Billy Khan simply expressed concerns about the RAM capacity and split bandwidth.

The opinion of the lead engine programmer of iD Software, an experienced and award winning dev, is worth listening to.
 
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reksveks

Member
Axel was the one hoping for much higher amounts of RAM. Not Billy Khan.

Billy Khan simply expressed concerns about the RAM capacity and split bandwidth.
Found the screenshot of Axel's tweet, you are correct on axel wanting more ram. Fundamentally attribution of the quote doesn't really change much in my opinion.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
Their concerns were before they got hands on, it turns out the Series S doesn't have split bandwith for Devs as the 2gb of lower bandwith ram is reserved for the OS anyway.
 

DarkMage619

Member
Well there's something to celebrate for a console that will be around another decade.
There is a major difference between a PS5 game being tied to the PS4 and XSX game and the XSS version.

PS4 to PS5 is a generational and architectural level difference.

Series S to Series X is the same generation and infrastructure with just a difference in specs.

You're comparing apples to chimpanzees here.

Also, PlayStation fans are equally, maybe more, opposed to cross gen games on GAF. I shouldn't have to point out individual user names.
Yup. They 'believed in generations' and made fun of platforms that claimed to be cross gen from the start. Still waiting to get that listing of titles the XSS version has negatively impacted other platforms.
 

adamsapple

Gold Member
The fact that we are comparing a last gen console to a current gen console at all pretty much sums it up.

*Makes first post in topic bringing in last gen console comparison*

"The fact that 'we' are comparing a last gen console... "





Peak concern ™ on display here :messenger_tears_of_joy:.

My friend, please.
 
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*Makes first post in topic bringing in last gen console comparison*

"The fact that 'we' are comparing a last gen console... "





Peak concern ™ on display here :messenger_tears_of_joy:.

My friend, please.
DF and the game developers are the ones concerned. I didn't start this thread. They're just confirming what most of us have been saying since the Series S and its specs were revealed.
 
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adamsapple

Gold Member
DF and the game developers are the ones concerned. I didn't start this thread. They're just confirming what most of us have been saying since it the Series S and its specs were revealed.

Series S's specs are relative to the current generation. DF/Alex didn't make any comparison with last gen in the video.

That's purely something cooked up in the extent of this topic, for the discussion at hand.
 
Series S's specs are relative to the current generation. DF/Alex didn't make any comparison with last gen in the video.

That's purely something cooked up in the extent of this topic, for the discussion at hand.
Yeah and people compare the Switch to the 360. Because that's where it lands hardware wise, regardless of when it released or what numbered generation it calls itself.
 

adamsapple

Gold Member
Yeah and people compare the Switch to the 360. Because that's where it lands hardware wise, regardless of when it released or what numbered generation it calls itself.

But we can't start the comparison in a topic ourselves then come back a few posts later and wonder aloud why are doing the comparison. It's disingenuous is my point.

If developers are going to make Steam Deck friendly presets to modern games, Series S is a step above that so the bottleneck isn't gonna come from it (Series S).
 

DaGwaphics

Gold Member
Could you list the games that were held back by Series S memory constraints during development? You must have several examples in mind :pie_thinking:

IKR. It's such a nothing statement from a developer. The PS3 was a pain for the entire generation, go figure. It's out, it's selling, and consumers are okay with the box (the only voices that matter). 🤷‍♂️

Whether the developers are warm and fuzzy about it or not doesn't figure into much at the end of the day.
 

DarkMage619

Member
Yeah and people compare the Switch to the 360. Because that's where it lands hardware wise, regardless of when it released or what numbered generation it calls itself.
People compared the Switch to the XSS too. Bottom line is there is no evidence the XSS is holding back the XSX or any other platforms. Comparing the PS4 and PS5 to the XSX and XSS is an apples to chimps comparison.
 

Chukhopops

Member
It sums up the concern trolling, yeah. Series S absolutely crushes the last gen base consoles.
The best part with the XSS concern squad is how their battle is already lost. There is clearly a market for a cheaper, less powerful model when you see the XSS going 50/50 with the XSX even in markets like Germany or France and completely dominating in other countries like the UK (judging from Amazon). Remember when the argument was that no one would ever want it?

Even as supply issues improve (it’s actually quite easy to get any console those days where I live) chips will remain expensive for the coming years. I doubt the situation will change much and I don’t see the first price drops or revisions coming after 3 years like in previous generation. In fact the XSS might be able to price itself even more aggressively before the other consoles can.

So in short, it was a gamble by MS and it could have failed but it did not, and it may in fact have been a stroke of genius from MS reading the market better than anyone else. And the biggest lesson is how irrelevant specs are, as a selling point, to the majority of customers.
 
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adamsapple

Gold Member
I'm surprised people aren't seeing the more important positive point John brings up in the video.

Even if Series S is the baseline for current gen development (it's still more powerful than a Steam Deck mind you), that means that inherently both PS5 and Series X versions will have a good amount of headroom above it.

Which means more games with higher frame rate, resolution and graphical effects like RT over the quote unquote most basic version of the game.
 

Shmunter

Gold Member
Why do you all even care? How does this affect you? It's clear that the S was a super smart business move and has not negatively impacted anyone who does not want to own one.
I care because I firmly believe a high tide lifts all boats. The S muddies the entire generation. That’s all there is to it.

If Sony were to do it, I’d be even more critical. Luckily they looked beyond cashing in and did it right with the single baseline.
 
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GHG

Member
I think folks are forgetting that the Steam Deck is the weakest denominator that's supposed to have the widest support for modern developed games.

If devs can optimize for that, Series S will be a cinch, and it's not like we haven't seen games cut RT from the Series S version if needed.

No PC developer has to take the Steam Deck into account at any point during the development of their game. There is no mandate that states if you develop a game for the PC platform then you have to make sure the steam deck can run said game.

But then, you already knew that. Stop being disingenuous.
 

adamsapple

Gold Member
Are you seriously suggesting the steam dock is the target platform for this gen? It’s a pc with users dialing in their settings like any other pc. Your mental gymnastics are like watching cirque du soleil

Dialing back settings from a higher spec set up isn't something only steam deck can do, developers can do that for Series S where the other console versions are pushing higher fidelity and effects.

Not a single developer has confirmed if they had to cut back a game because of Series S.

But I guess that wouldn't have stopped some from entering yet another Xbox/Series S thread with the same unproven drivel.


No PC developer has to take the Steam Deck into account at any point during the development of their game. There is no mandate that states if you develop a game for the PC platform then you have to make sure the steam deck can run said game.

But then, you already knew that. Stop being disingenuous.

I think that's more of an unspoken thing. Like said elsewhere, steamdeck is just essentially a PC and as such it can support low presets of games that can otherwise blow people away graphically on higher settings.

If that logic can work there, it can work just as easily on Series S as well, developers have the option to make cuts as needed to get a game on Series S. There's no apparent mandate that all modes/visual features need to match between S and X.
 
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FrankWza

Member
No PC developer has to take the Steam Deck into account at any point during the development of their game. There is no mandate that states if you develop a game for the PC platform then you have to make sure the steam deck can run said game.

But then, you already knew that. Stop being disingenuous.
Yeah. By coming out and saying the series s will play every game that comes out on x that’s what they did. They now have to spend the entire gen tied to that or discontinue and face backlash. They are already not able to deliver features they said would be present from the x version but I doubt they’d flat out stop supporting the system.
 
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DarkMage619

Member
No series S is a fixed generation defining platform. Aka a console. It’s like we’ve never seen a console before.

There is no logic in your suggestion.
All games on XSS hit the PC day one. It's a dialed in PC with dev kit that has settings for PC, XSS and XSX. Again there is no evidence the XSS has negatively affected other platforms.
 

Shmunter

Gold Member
All games on XSS hit the PC day one. It's a dialed in PC with dev kit that has settings for PC, XSS and XSX. Again there is no evidence the XSS has negatively affected other platforms.

Plenty of logic. Just like PCs, consoles are now highly scalable. I don't see the difference.


Target Platform
What Does Target Platform Mean?

“Target platform” is a generally used term in IT to discuss a platform of focus. A target platform can refer to the platform that something is being built for, a platform that is desirable for use, or simply a platform that a particular technology is focusing on. The use of these types of terms has become more common with multiplatform software and services that integrate operations across a larger number of platforms.

 

adamsapple

Gold Member
Plenty of logic. Just like PCs, consoles are now highly scalable. I don't see the difference.

Yeah, it's funny to bring up that Steam Deck is a PC and can just run things on lower settings.

The developers can also do the same to get the game on Series S to their liking. There's no mandate that Series S must meet a threshold or match every visual feature from SX or PS5.

All games on XSS hit the PC day one. It's a dialed in PC with dev kit that has settings for PC, XSS and XSX. Again there is no evidence the XSS has negatively affected other platforms.

No, there really isn't.

Just some good old FUD from the expected usernames.
 

rodrigolfp

Member
I care because I firmly believe a high tide lifts all boats. The S muddies the entire generation. That’s all there is to it.

If Sony were to do it, I’d be even more critical. Luckily they looked beyond cashing in and did it right with the single baseline.
So the Switch muddied The Witcher 3 and Doom 2016, especially the pc version, right?
 
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dcmk7

Member
Plenty of logic. Just like PCs, consoles are now highly scalable. I don't see the difference.
Developers do see the difference.

And view the memory constraints as a pain. Which is what DF has covered in the video in the OP.

If it was so scalable and easy like people are implying here then I don't see why developers would feel the need to speak out about the console so much.

Guess it's easier to blame the developers rather than the hardware.
 

dcmk7

Member
There's no mandate that Series S must meet a threshold or match every visual feature from SX
Jason Ronald, of all people, actually said Series S was designed to deliver the exact same experience just at a lower resolution.

That claim seems pretty incredible now.

A mandate, if there was one, would have quickly became impractical.
 
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