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Did Microsoft deliberately MURDER the Sega Dreamcast by BRIBING/POUCHING Tirrd Party studios? (Kagey K, GET ITT!!!)

Max_Po

Banned
lol at this. if anyone is to blame for dc fate, is sony.

This is the stupidest thing retards like you have been posting for decades, hugging each other and then crying together...

Dreamcast died due to SEGA and their narrow vision.

- Terrible Controller and controller design compared to Saturn and even genesis.
- Started well initially and then gave up on games.
- GD Rom, idiots like to bitch and moan about SONY hyping DVD and killing SEGA, the truth is SEGA was dumb enough to use GD-ROM. DVD didn't kill SEGA, GD ROM did. Their games were easily pirated. And even PS2 with DVD Drive was heavily sold out and expensive. Its not like you were paying same price for DC and PS2.
- No mod-chip needed.
- Don't bitch and act like saints here, Everyone and their grandma was pirating Dreamcast games after downloading them on their AOL connection.
- Wasted much needed resources on trash franchise SHENMUE ... most over-rated garbage which took too much needed resources after failed 32x and SATURN.
- Weak hardware with limited Life Span.

Everyone company makes money on add-ons. SEGA was dumb enough to include a 33k modem with JAP, and 56k modem with NA units. "First Company" to include modem addon.. well EAT ass and die... oh well they did.

A note to Haters, Please Don't target me as SEGA hater, I love Genesis and play my MegaSG + MegaSD daily. In addition I own a Saturn with Pheobe 2.3 and I make Custom Dreamcast consoles as I love the console and the games on it.

Just staying facts.
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pIyafAV.jpg


pIyafAV.jpg
 
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Spare us the wind-ups. SEGA would have no doubt done much the same to less corps its self, when it was king of the tree with the Mega Drive. I seem to remember some saying SONY stopped Half-Life coming to the DC or how they made CORE make Heady Gerdt for the PS2 instead , that's before one looks at SONY buying the console rights to Tomb Raider in the Saturn era

Dreamcast was dead long before MS came in. It didn't have EA, the Japanese and European launches were shocking, SEGA Europe was run by muppets and that MGS 2 E3 trailer was a killer.
Not to mention how SEGA Rally II should have been Arcade perfect and showcase for the DC modem with online races, online rankings and save replays loads, or how SEGA GT needed to be so much better; This was meant to be the game to get SEGA's racing crown back, and let it run at 30 fps didn't look great and was made by WOW? Why AM#2 or AM#3 wasn't given the task, I'll never know.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Spare us the wind-ups. SEGA would have no doubt done much the same to less corps its self, when it was king of the tree with the Mega Drive. I seem to remember some saying SONY stopped Half-Life coming to the DC or how they made CORE make Heady Gerdt for the PS2 instead , that's before one looks at SONY buying the console rights to Tomb Raider in the Saturn era

Dreamcast was dead long before MS came in. It didn't have EA, the Japanese and European launches were shocking, SEGA Europe was run by muppets and that MGS 2 E3 trailer was a killer.
Not to mention how SEGA Rally II should have been Arcade perfect and showcase for the DC modem with online races, online rankings and save replays loads, or how SEGA GT needed to be so much better; This was meant to be the game to get SEGA's racing crown back, and let it run at 30 fps didn't look great and was made by WOW? Why AM#2 or AM#3 wasn't given the task, I'll never know.

They also cancelled the DC port of Scud Race. WTF?
 

cireza

Banned
Saturn was profitable to Sega. They went all in with Dreamcast and wasted their money in a ton of projects that would never attract a lot of people. This is all about mis management.

They could have been perfectly fine if they had not funded so many stupid games that could not appeal to anyone anyway. And I love Rez, but come on.

Sales weren't that bad, and the console was awesome, but still Sega was losing money. They were unable to manage their business correctly.
 
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Hardly too late, more like too early

By the time Dreamcast had come out Sega had shit all over its fanbase with garbage add ons and consoles like the 32x, Sega CD and the Saturn. The Dreamcast was a fantastically designed console but like I said, too little too late. By that point most people could care less about the Dreamcast. Especially with the ps2 juggernaut so close to release.
 
Whoa, whoa, whoa, let's not get carried away :messenger_beaming:

Maybe GC-era Sega with Sonic and Super Monkey Ball.

Their modern catalog is very PS these days I think. Totally different place.

Yeah TBF they do have a lot of their stuff on PS4 nowadays with Yakuza, Sakura Taisen, Virtual-On and Persona if you extend it to Atlus. But when it comes to Japan Nintendo seems to be the dominant force especially going forward, and all of those games are pretty Japan-centric so they may actually be a better fit on Nintendo's platform IMHO.

It's also one of the reasons I think MS would be a better fit than Sony: not only do MS need new strong IP more than Sony, but with mobile gaming being so big in Asia and a lot of SEGA's stuff having a primary appeal to that market (again, like Yakuza), streaming over Xcloud would probably help those games reach a lot of players they otherwise wouldn't. They might start testing that right now with porting Yakuza to Xbox, see how those games do in places like South Korea over Xcloud for example.

The chief benefit I could see SEGA bringing to Sony would be in filling out their quirkier, AA-style games more timely and persistently. Japan Studio dropped the ball so hard on that front and a lot of the IP Sony once had to cover those type of games, like Wipeout or Echochrome or Puppeteer, the IPs are either dead or the studios behind them are gone.

I could imagine SEGA AM2 making a really cool new Wipeout at least on par with F-Zero GX back on the Gamecube, for example, and at a very good budget. SEGA's IP would compliment Sony's more cinematic, epic Hollywood-like AAA games tbh, but in Sony's case I don't think there's as big a need for them ATM, unless we see them skip out on 2nd-party deals with indies or pass on Housemarque. Them shutting down Japan Studio would open a big door for someone like SEGA tho provided they aren't already with MS, or are just in a position where they don't need to consider being picked up by one of the Big 3 anymore.

By the time Dreamcast had come out Sega had shit all over its fanbase with garbage add ons and consoles like the 32x, Sega CD and the Saturn. The Dreamcast was a fantastically designed console but like I said, too little too late. By that point most people could care less about the Dreamcast. Especially with the ps2 juggernaut so close to release.

Sadly this is very accurate. People are underestimating just how much SEGA pissed away their fanbase in the 32X/Saturn years in the West (and then in Japan by rushing Dreamcast when Saturn was still doing well over there). I mean, you can see some of that even to this day with people who still feel betrayed by their decisions at that time who were staunch supporters. Then consider that many of them just went over to the Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft camps after SEGA left hardware.

It's probably a big reason why they've been struggling a good while since becoming a 3rd-party; a lot of their earlier fanbase felt jaded, and if they went on to make new friends or have kids, etc. they probably didn't push SEGA stuff onto them because they had written SEGA off by then or didn't prioritize them anymore. Sometimes it even feels like companies like SNK have more goodwill towards them than SEGA because, yeah, the Neo-Geo sold a pittance in terms of systems, but SNK never really betrayed their fanbase, either. Their biggest mistakes honestly was the Hyper Neo-Geo 64, and they killed it before it could do any damage. Besides, that was an arcade system so only operators were affected and they likely were okay to forgive because the original Neo Geo was still doing so well for them. And they consistently retained their IP like KOF and Metal Slug to a high standard (outside of the "decent" PS2 3D KOF games :S).

So while a company like SEGA had a much bigger rise (in terms of industry clout compared to, say, SNK or Capcom), they also had a much bigger fall and I don't think they've fully recovered to this day. I mean in terms of overall fanbases and communities I see more excitement over SNK and Capcom stuff (particularly Capcom) these days than SEGA, I mean just look at anticipation for RE3 Remake compared to, say, the next Yakuza game or recent Sakura Wars game. And a lot of that has to do with one being more mainstream, for sure, but I think if SEGA did a better job not pissing away a huge chunk of its fanbase in the late '90s they'd be getting more natural attention for new releases. Oh and dropping the ball with Sonic has also definitely hurt.

That said, the PSO2 beta received nothing but praise and is probably the most visible SEGA has been among the general gaming community in years, so they can certainly command that type of attention. But PSO2 is a case of them giving fans both current and who may've turned away a long time ago, something they've actually wanted, is high-quality, related to a classic IP and is grand in scale with what big competition is offering these days (in most ways, anyway. I guess you can argue the visuals aren't as good as FF XIV or Monster Hunter World on a technical level, but the artistic quality more than makes up for it IMHO).

That's what SEGA needs to be doing more of, because there's no reason they can't be enjoying similar levels of success as Capcom, Square-Enix, or other major Japanese game devs these days. And I mean that not just in terms of healthy sales, but general mindshare and appeal to core fanbase with strong games in classic IP that can compare with best efforts from rival studios. Make the next 3D Sonic legitimately great again, try making a serious fighting game again (not even Virtua Fighter; just do it like SEGA and Sonic All-Stars was and throw tons of SEGA characters in it building off the Virtua Fighter engine, like Fighters Megamix did in its day), etc.

They could finally make up for all those horrible business decisions from 32X and onward.
 
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I like how people are already forgetting that Sega has no money and had to borrow money to run the DC, which also completely bombed in Japan with tons of excess systems, which we all know has nothing to do with MS.

Considering the Xbox was indirectly announce 1 year after the DC's launch and directly announced some months after that it's just doesn't add up. Sega was an incompetent company that got lucky one time on one system and they screwed that up to.
 
I have no idea people keep revising the history of the Sega CD, no one was mad at the Sega CD, it could have been supported better but did well for it it was, and it was clear it was an option and didn't take away from the regular genesis, the 32X was only an issue because the real successor was announced around the same time and it pissed of retailers and gamers, but mostly retailers, which would peak with the surprise launch of the Saturn causing retailers to tell Sega to jack off with sand paper.

Then you have the games, which no one wants to talk about but we need to be honest here, most of the "hidden games" or "underrated games" people talk about now these days, not all of them, but MOST of them, were never good and that's why no one brought them. Many of the studios Sega had that brought the Genesis into the spotlight were closed before the Saturn even came out in Japan, and Sega didn't bother trying to get hird-parties on board the Saturn they just assumed that the genesis success (which was faltering before the Saturn released) would cause developers to jump on the Saturn, and not only did that not happen, but the few that were interested hated it's development platform which was only made a pain because Sega wanted to make their machine better at 3D within the last 10 seconds because Sony scared them.

The Dreamcast was a stupid Idea, they had too many parts they could have gotten cheaper but they wanted to rush out a replacement for the Saturn as fast as possible, and while one may think it was smart to base the Dreamcast off an arcade machine, that ads to the cost. What else adds to the cost? The stupid modem they included for free with every dreamcast. They also had to contract people over to throw as many strange games at the wall as possible while getting D tier third parties on board in order to make up the gap they created pissing off all the other third party developers and retailers that would only carry a few games unless it was a major chain.

This is why despite the Dreamcast doing well in NA and some parts of Europe, Japan alone was able t sink nearly all the profit gains and the decline in Europe later as well as other regions could not have been made up by the US, which also wasn't selling too much by late 2000.

People like to blame Sony but Sega was already done before the US PS2 launch was announced and was already on it's last legs when the PS2 released in Japan. Even if Sony delayed the PS2 1 year in all countries it launched in, Sega was still going to run out of cash, they had to take out credit.

What people don't realize is the Dreamcast was a gamble, when the Dreamcast was about to launch, Sega took the remainder of their funds and the credit they borrowed into manufacturing a set amount of Dreamcast consoles, all with modems build in and custom CD Drives and costly material going over their limit. Then they had software of varying quality at the ready to spam the retailers they had access to and the rest was on marketing. The idea was to hope that this early release of a next generation console, the hype from their ads, and the internet gimmick, would get them to sell enough consoles to make up for the credit that was given to them and then some giving them profit so they could continue into the future.

Only Sega of America managed to actually meet this challenge, the DC sunk everywhere else. So in in short Sega was already doomed, only really lasting as long as they did because of the US and some rising interest in Europe over time which they lost because they didn't have the cash to take advantage of it. It's bad when you sell millions of consoles and nearly none of it makes money.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
Dreamcast was dead before it even came out. They killed their band with the mass market and didn't have the financial resources to see a console launch through.


That's what SEGA needs to be doing more of, because there's no reason they can't be enjoying similar levels of success as Capcom, Square-Enix, or other major Japanese game devs these days. And I mean that not just in terms of healthy sales, but general mindshare and appeal to core fanbase with strong games in classic IP that can compare with best efforts from rival studios. Make the next 3D Sonic legitimately great again, try making a serious fighting game again (not even Virtua Fighter; just do it like SEGA and Sonic All-Stars was and throw tons of SEGA characters in it building off the Virtua Fighter engine, like Fighters Megamix did in its day), etc.

They could finally make up for all those horrible business decisions from 32X and onward.

The Valkyria Chronicles ports did well, but Valkyria 4 did not. I doubt they regret passing on Shenmue 3. It's really hard to update classic IP because you are making a brand new game and have to appeal to the brand new market in the end. We're at the point where an entire generation just doesn't know what these games are. I also don't think Sega has the resources to throw a bunch of stuff against the wall and see what sticks.
 

phil_t98

#SonyToo
so basically Sega killed it themselves by shitty copywrite protection and made it easy to use copied games. the system died very quickly because of that
 
Saturn was profitable to Sega. They went all in with Dreamcast and wasted their money in a ton of projects that would never attract a lot of people. This is all about mis management.

This rings true to me but I can only think of Shenmue and Seaman. Would you say PSO too?
 
Then you have the games, which no one wants to talk about but we need to be honest here, most of the "hidden games" or "underrated games" people talk about now these days, not all of them, but MOST of them, were never good and that's why no one brought them.

Again? xD. Many of those games wouldn't have a fandom or have gotten strong reviews when they came out if they were just outright bad. A lot of them (the majority, in fact) are usually held in very strong regard, and were done so by the press even at the time they came out. That goes for Shining the Holy Ark, Dragon Force, NiGHTS, Panzer Dragoon Zwei and Saga, Skies of Arcadia, Radiant Silvergun, Ristar etc. Legitimately great games then and now, so most relative market performance (whether good or bad) had many factors aside from game quality itself that affected them.

Already proved this with Virtual-On but there's a lot of other games where it's equally applicable. Unless you're talking about the SoA-pushed FMV games or stuff like Greendog which, in the grand scheme of SEGA's releases, were the minority.

I've also mentioned marketing, distribution etc. (or lack thereof) attesting to this, but I don't think we need to go over that again. But suffice to say, SEGA was never too good at marketing most of their games and part of that was due to the regional infighting and lack of appropriate budgeting towards marketing pushes (never mind ineffective marketing like a lot of Saturn's earlier NA adverts and commercials).

This rings true to me but I can only think of Shenmue and Seaman. Would you say PSO too?

Dunno about PSO; at the very least that did a lot of goodwill for them going by reception and popularity for the PSO2 beta ;)

But I'd say other things, like arcade machines such as F355 Challenge, and Gameworks, were ultimately moneysinks for them. Which goes to cireza cireza 's point about mismanagement.
 
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(the majority, in fact) are usually held in very strong regard, and were done so by the press even at the time they came out.

Not even close to true, and you know it.

Again? xD. Many of those games wouldn't have a fandom or have gotten strong reviews when they came out if they were just outright bad.

A lot of games on the system didn't have strong reviews, and cults fandoms don't mean anything unless you think Bubsy is an underrated series/Hidden gem.


That goes for Shining the Holy Ark, Dragon Force, NiGHTS, Panzer Dragoon Zwei and Saga, Skies of Arcadia, Radiant Silvergun, Ristar etc.

A good chunk of those have nothing to do with the Dreamcast. Read the entire post in next time. Also Virtual-on doesn't prove anything at all and in fact is a good sing of a game that has front-loaded excitement in ONE region with the legs chopped off shortly after release and having no lasting appeal to continue driving sales after the honeymoon window. But that's different from what' I'm talking about I'm talking about games that were concerned BAD at the time and NOW they are considered good.

You're mixing two different things together.

I've also mentioned marketing, distribution etc. (or lack thereof) attesting to this, but I don't think we need to go over that again. But suffice to say, SEGA was never too good at marketing most of their games and part of that was due to the regional infighting and lack of appropriate budgeting towards marketing pushes (never mind ineffective marketing like a lot of Saturn's earlier NA adverts and commercials).

This goes into another part of my posts you skipped over relating to games, and that's advertising doesn't mean much if several games and studios that helped the Genesis no longer existed when the Saturn came out and the out put of guys like Midway was cut more than half from the PSX because of how hard it was to make games on the thing.

Sega could have had movie ad money for Daytona, Bug, and VF2 and it still wouldn't have gotten the audience that was turned off or who were waiting for those Plus their old favorites that weren't going to come.
 

JLB

Banned
This is the stupidest thing retards like you have been posting for decades, hugging each other and then crying together...

Dreamcast died due to SEGA and their narrow vision.

- Terrible Controller and controller design compared to Saturn and even genesis.
- Started well initially and then gave up on games.
- GD Rom, idiots like to bitch and moan about SONY hyping DVD and killing SEGA, the truth is SEGA was dumb enough to use GD-ROM. DVD didn't kill SEGA, GD ROM did. Their games were easily pirated. And even PS2 with DVD Drive was heavily sold out and expensive. Its not like you were paying same price for DC and PS2.
- No mod-chip needed.
- Don't bitch and act like saints here, Everyone and their grandma was pirating Dreamcast games after downloading them on their AOL connection.
- Wasted much needed resources on trash franchise SHENMUE ... most over-rated garbage which took too much needed resources after failed 32x and SATURN.
- Weak hardware with limited Life Span.

Everyone company makes money on add-ons. SEGA was dumb enough to include a 33k modem with JAP, and 56k modem with NA units. "First Company" to include modem addon.. well EAT ass and die... oh well they did.

A note to Haters, Please Don't target me as SEGA hater, I love Genesis and play my MegaSG + MegaSD daily. In addition I own a Saturn with Pheobe 2.3 and I make Custom Dreamcast consoles as I love the console and the games on it.

Just staying facts.
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pIyafAV.jpg


pIyafAV.jpg


go ask peter moore who fucked dc
 

JLB

Banned
funny how many of you think to know what really happened to DC. I was one of the biggest dc fanboy of this planet, have a little museum at home with dcs -jp, eu and us- versions,even the damn fishing device. played thousands of hours, was daily basis participating in forums at the time.
sony fucked dc. do your research.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
funny how many of you think to know what really happened to DC. I was one of the biggest dc fanboy of this planet, have a little museum at home with dcs -jp, eu and us- versions,even the damn fishing device. played thousands of hours, was daily basis participating in forums at the time.
sony fucked dc. do your research.

My first console after the crash was a Master System. I got a Genesis on Day 1. I had multiple Saturns, including a US switch modded one. I imported a DC the day they came out in Japan and had multiple US systems including the great black SEGA Sports one. I view the Xbox a the spiritual successor to Sega.

Sega killed the Dreamcast. Not Sony, not MS. Their missteps are well documented. Blaming another company for what Sega of Japan did comes off as ignorant and refusing to acknowledge that Sega of Japan was the problem.

And it didn‘t start with the DC. It started with the Saturn when both the US and JPN arms had two competing pieces of HW in development.
 

BlackTron

Member
Only Sega of America managed to actually meet this challenge, the DC sunk everywhere else. So in in short Sega was already doomed, only really lasting as long as they did because of the US and some rising interest in Europe over time which they lost because they didn't have the cash to take advantage of it. It's bad when you sell millions of consoles and nearly none of it makes money.

The company I was really in love with was Sega of America, their SoJ overlords ruined everything with their pomp and hubris.

It got worse since the DC, not better.
 
The company I was really in love with was Sega of America, their SoJ overlords ruined everything with their pomp and hubris.

It got worse since the DC, not better.

If it wasn't for SoA pushing the aggressive advertising and bundling Sonic 1 Sega wouldn't even be anywhere right back then.

I also agree that they are worse once they left and their biggest mistake was splitting their resources across 3 consoles and PC after the DC, with Sega producing exclusives for each console which ended up costing them the rest of their old studios and most of their older staff by 2004 and 2005, so you may as well say Sega now is a different Sega from Sega just 15 years ago.
 

Three

Member
Imagine if a sprinter who finishes last in a race could blame the person who finished first for his failure. It'd be quite something eh.
Then imagine the person who finishes last then says the only reason the sprinter who won consistently only won because they stumbled. Now you have the mentality of MS fans in a nutshell.
 
A good chunk of those have nothing to do with the Dreamcast. Read the entire post in next time. Also Virtual-on doesn't prove anything at all and in fact is a good sing of a game that has front-loaded excitement in ONE region with the legs chopped off shortly after release and having no lasting appeal to continue driving sales after the honeymoon window. But that's different from what' I'm talking about I'm talking about games that were concerned BAD at the time and NOW they are considered good.

Any examples? I've never head of anyone calling bad Dreamcast games hidden gems.

I can only think of maybe a couple of hidden gems on the Dreamcast (Project Justice: Rival Schools 2 being one of them that's on the top of my mind) but apart from that, the Dreamcast was completely devoid of hidden gems; Everything was pushed hard to attract as much visibility as possible.
 
Not even close to true, and you know it.

A lot of games on the system didn't have strong reviews, and cults fandoms don't mean anything unless you think Bubsy is an underrated series/Hidden gem.

A good chunk of those have nothing to do with the Dreamcast. Read the entire post in next time. Also Virtual-on doesn't prove anything at all and in fact is a good sing of a game that has front-loaded excitement in ONE region with the legs chopped off shortly after release and having no lasting appeal to continue driving sales after the honeymoon window. But that's different from what' I'm talking about I'm talking about games that were concerned BAD at the time and NOW they are considered good.

You're mixing two different things together.

.....................

You are a weird dude, I'll give you that. Plenty of games besides some of SEGA's are front-loaded in sales; almost all Western 3rd-party AAA games, for example. No reason to hold that against just SEGA in particular.

Also no, you're pushing your own subjective (ill-informed) opinion to try speaking for other people, or that it's more popular an opinion than it actually is. SEGA's been one of the 3rd party publishers with highest Metacritic average for a while by now, you can easily check this yourself. In fact, I'll make it easy for you . So the industry literally disagrees with you on that one.

As for classic games?

NiGHTS Into Dreams:

EGM06/20/038 out of 10
Electric Playground05/03/048.5 out of 10
Game Informer07/06/038.5 out of 10
Game Revolution06/22/03A
GamePro10/01/965 out of 5
Gamer Web06/14/039.5 out of 10
Games Are Fun04/26/039 out of 10
IGN08/18/088.7 out of 10
Mad Gamers08/22/028 out of 10

Skies of Arcadia:

Metacritic: 93

AllRPG07/13/028 out of 10
AntKids.com12/06/0097 out of 100
Armchair Empire01/01/809 out of 10
Cheat Code Central08/12/055 out of 5
EGM06/29/039.33 out of 10
Electric Playground05/06/049 out of 10
Eurogamer01/10/019 out of 10
Game Boyz07/08/049.5 out of 10
Game Fan11/28/0099 out of 100
Game Informer01/01/809 out of 10
Game Revolution12/03/00A-
Game Vortex12/08/029.5 out of 10
Gamecenter11/16/009 out of 10
GameCritics03/02/019 out of 10
GamePen01/17/014 out of 5
GamePro11/15/004.5 out of 5
Gamer Web11/23/0010 out of 10
GameRankings02/14/0198 out of 100
Gamers Europe09/11/029 out of 10
Gamers Pulse03/14/0288 out of 100
Gamers Wave06/07/029.8 out of 10
GamersMark07/04/029 out of 10
Games Are Fun11/03/0210 out of 1
Games First!01/09/014 out of 5
GameSpot10/16/009.2 out of 10
GameSpot UK (Pre-2003)04/11/019.4 out of 10
GameSpy12/05/009 out of 10
Gaming Age09/05/04A
Gaming Maxx11/30/009.7 out of 10
Gaming Target12/22/009.4 out of 10
HonestGamers01/08/059 out of 10
Hot Games11/28/005 out of 5
IGN11/14/009.2 out of 10
Independent Gamer06/28/024.5 out of 5
Irish Player01/01/807.7 out of 10
Mad Gamers11/06/018.5 out of 10
Next Generation01/01/804 out of 5
Next Level Gaming01/01/805 out of 6
RPGamer11/11/0410 out of 10
RPGFan06/22/0291 out of 100
Thunderbolt11/30/046 out of 10
Alien Soldier

Eurogamer11/10/078 out of 10
GameSpot12/12/078 out of 10
HonestGamers01/20/069 out of 10
IGN11/26/078 out of 10
Nintendo Life11/03/078 out of 10


Shining the Holy Ark

EGM06/20/037.75 out of 10
Electric Playground05/06/046 out of 10
Game Revolution09/01/97B
GamePro07/01/974.5 out of 5
Gamer Web06/14/037 out of 10
GameSpot08/08/979.1 out of 10
RPGamer11/10/044 out of 5
RPGFan07/27/9882 out of 100

Jet Set Radio Future

Metacritic: 88

Critic Reviews

Guardian Heroes

EGM06/20/038.12 out of 10
Electric Playground04/24/049 out of 10
Game Revolution06/19/03B+
Gamer Web06/14/039 out of 10
Gamers Wave07/17/03n/a
Games First!02/22/065 out of 5
Netjak10/15/048.9 out of 10

Crazy Taxi 2

Metacrtic: 82

Critic Reviews

Jet Grind Radio

Metacritic: 94

Critic Reviews

...........

So again, actual reviews and data disagree with you. And that's about all to say on it. One thing to be critical based on easily observable things ,but you can't make wild claims when there's actual evidence debunking them available.

Also what kind of conditional is "games considered bad before but now considered good"? Do you do this with movies, as well? Does that mean The Thing is a crap movie, critics hated it when it came out so are people wrong for liking it now?

Tastes change, and yes that means people can get it wrong in terms of missing quality in something from the past but liking it now. Or in the case of something like your Bubsy example, like it at the time but dislike it now aside from the memes or ironic humor.
 
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^The above post is rendered irrelevant when you once again list games that have nothing to do with the dreamcast showing you didn't read BOTH posts and instead decided to twist posts and make up your own arguments.

Plenty of games besides some of SEGA's are front-loaded in sales, Western AAA

What does western AAA have to do with Dreamcast games like Virtual-On OT and others? You're just arguing about nothing.

You went from talking about classic Sega games to post Dreamcast games, to skipping the Dreamcast by mentioning games like Ristar and then going back to post-Dreamcast games. You're a mess.

Here let me repost the post you didn't read and actually try reading it this time below with added bold text to help you're reading comprehension:


Try actually responding the posts actual post with quotes like i did with you if you can't address things fairly in summary.
 

JLB

Banned
My first console after the crash was a Master System. I got a Genesis on Day 1. I had multiple Saturns, including a US switch modded one. I imported a DC the day they came out in Japan and had multiple US systems including the great black SEGA Sports one. I view the Xbox a the spiritual successor to Sega.

Sega killed the Dreamcast. Not Sony, not MS. Their missteps are well documented. Blaming another company for what Sega of Japan did comes off as ignorant and refusing to acknowledge that Sega of Japan was the problem.

And it didn‘t start with the DC. It started with the Saturn when both the US and JPN arms had two competing pieces of HW in development.

Of course this is true. At the end this is kinda free market world, and if sony set some killer exclusive deals plus a masterpiece of console, as it was ps2, then good for them.
Sega delivered a fantastic product, but didnt have enough economic power to make it compete with playstation.
I was just playing the blame someone game, and in that dimension MS has absolutely nothing to do.
 

ph33rknot

Banned
This is the stupidest thing retards like you have been posting for decades, hugging each other and then crying together...

Dreamcast died due to SEGA and their narrow vision.

- Terrible Controller and controller design compared to Saturn and even genesis.
- Started well initially and then gave up on games.
- GD Rom, idiots like to bitch and moan about SONY hyping DVD and killing SEGA, the truth is SEGA was dumb enough to use GD-ROM. DVD didn't kill SEGA, GD ROM did. Their games were easily pirated. And even PS2 with DVD Drive was heavily sold out and expensive. Its not like you were paying same price for DC and PS2.
- No mod-chip needed.
- Don't bitch and act like saints here, Everyone and their grandma was pirating Dreamcast games after downloading them on their AOL connection.
- Wasted much needed resources on trash franchise SHENMUE ... most over-rated garbage which took too much needed resources after failed 32x and SATURN.
- Weak hardware with limited Life Span.

Everyone company makes money on add-ons. SEGA was dumb enough to include a 33k modem with JAP, and 56k modem with NA units. "First Company" to include modem addon.. well EAT ass and die... oh well they did.

A note to Haters, Please Don't target me as SEGA hater, I love Genesis and play my MegaSG + MegaSD daily. In addition I own a Saturn with Pheobe 2.3 and I make Custom Dreamcast consoles as I love the console and the games on it.

Just staying facts.
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Working design bro
 
Dreamcast ran Windows CE. Sega Rally was developed on it. The DC mostly had games "coded to the metal" for performance, but Microsoft joined them and supported Sega because they wanted to get in the console space. Even after Sega relinquished their hardware business DUE TO THE IMMINENT SUCCESS of the PS2, Microsoft invested and secured many Sega games, particularly Dreamcast sequels.

I believe in an alternate universe where the Xbox brand is really Sega part 2.
 

ph33rknot

Banned
Yeah TBF they do have a lot of their stuff on PS4 nowadays with Yakuza, Sakura Taisen, Virtual-On and Persona if you extend it to Atlus. But when it comes to Japan Nintendo seems to be the dominant force especially going forward, and all of those games are pretty Japan-centric so they may actually be a better fit on Nintendo's platform IMHO.

It's also one of the reasons I think MS would be a better fit than Sony: not only do MS need new strong IP more than Sony, but with mobile gaming being so big in Asia and a lot of SEGA's stuff having a primary appeal to that market (again, like Yakuza), streaming over Xcloud would probably help those games reach a lot of players they otherwise wouldn't. They might start testing that right now with porting Yakuza to Xbox, see how those games do in places like South Korea over Xcloud for example.

The chief benefit I could see SEGA bringing to Sony would be in filling out their quirkier, AA-style games more timely and persistently. Japan Studio dropped the ball so hard on that front and a lot of the IP Sony once had to cover those type of games, like Wipeout or Echochrome or Puppeteer, the IPs are either dead or the studios behind them are gone.

I could imagine SEGA AM2 making a really cool new Wipeout at least on par with F-Zero GX back on the Gamecube, for example, and at a very good budget. SEGA's IP would compliment Sony's more cinematic, epic Hollywood-like AAA games tbh, but in Sony's case I don't think there's as big a need for them ATM, unless we see them skip out on 2nd-party deals with indies or pass on Housemarque. Them shutting down Japan Studio would open a big door for someone like SEGA tho provided they aren't already with MS, or are just in a position where they don't need to consider being picked up by one of the Big 3 anymore.



Sadly this is very accurate. People are underestimating just how much SEGA pissed away their fanbase in the 32X/Saturn years in the West (and then in Japan by rushing Dreamcast when Saturn was still doing well over there). I mean, you can see some of that even to this day with people who still feel betrayed by their decisions at that time who were staunch supporters. Then consider that many of them just went over to the Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft camps after SEGA left hardware.

It's probably a big reason why they've been struggling a good while since becoming a 3rd-party; a lot of their earlier fanbase felt jaded, and if they went on to make new friends or have kids, etc. they probably didn't push SEGA stuff onto them because they had written SEGA off by then or didn't prioritize them anymore. Sometimes it even feels like companies like SNK have more goodwill towards them than SEGA because, yeah, the Neo-Geo sold a pittance in terms of systems, but SNK never really betrayed their fanbase, either. Their biggest mistakes honestly was the Hyper Neo-Geo 64, and they killed it before it could do any damage. Besides, that was an arcade system so only operators were affected and they likely were okay to forgive because the original Neo Geo was still doing so well for them. And they consistently retained their IP like KOF and Metal Slug to a high standard (outside of the "decent" PS2 3D KOF games :S).

So while a company like SEGA had a much bigger rise (in terms of industry clout compared to, say, SNK or Capcom), they also had a much bigger fall and I don't think they've fully recovered to this day. I mean in terms of overall fanbases and communities I see more excitement over SNK and Capcom stuff (particularly Capcom) these days than SEGA, I mean just look at anticipation for RE3 Remake compared to, say, the next Yakuza game or recent Sakura Wars game. And a lot of that has to do with one being more mainstream, for sure, but I think if SEGA did a better job not pissing away a huge chunk of its fanbase in the late '90s they'd be getting more natural attention for new releases. Oh and dropping the ball with Sonic has also definitely hurt.

That said, the PSO2 beta received nothing but praise and is probably the most visible SEGA has been among the general gaming community in years, so they can certainly command that type of attention. But PSO2 is a case of them giving fans both current and who may've turned away a long time ago, something they've actually wanted, is high-quality, related to a classic IP and is grand in scale with what big competition is offering these days (in most ways, anyway. I guess you can argue the visuals aren't as good as FF XIV or Monster Hunter World on a technical level, but the artistic quality more than makes up for it IMHO).

That's what SEGA needs to be doing more of, because there's no reason they can't be enjoying similar levels of success as Capcom, Square-Enix, or other major Japanese game devs these days. And I mean that not just in terms of healthy sales, but general mindshare and appeal to core fanbase with strong games in classic IP that can compare with best efforts from rival studios. Make the next 3D Sonic legitimately great again, try making a serious fighting game again (not even Virtua Fighter; just do it like SEGA and Sonic All-Stars was and throw tons of SEGA characters in it building off the Virtua Fighter engine, like Fighters Megamix did in its day), etc.

They could finally make up for all those horrible business decisions from 32X and onward.
Sony bought a bunch of Sega exclusives
 

ph33rknot

Banned
Dreamcast ran Windows CE. Sega Rally was developed on it. The DC mostly had games "coded to the metal" for performance, but Microsoft joined them and supported Sega because they wanted to get in the console space. Even after Sega relinquished their hardware business DUE TO THE IMMINENT SUCCESS of the PS2, Microsoft invested and secured many Sega games, particularly Dreamcast sequels.

I believe in an alternate universe where the Xbox brand is really Sega part 2.
It never ran wce
 
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