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[.Pennywise]

When you think Xbox, you think about best deal in gaming, Game Pass, hands down, no questions asked, 100%.

Whenever someone has the idea of entering into the Xbox ecosystem, Game Pass might be one of, if not the first things that tips the balance to enter the Xbox world.

Game Pass could be the greatest Microsoft idea, ever. At least in the gaming industry.

So if you think what would be the Xbox brand without it as of today, your perception of said brand might be orders of magnitude different.
In the last years, Xbox has been backing up on Game Pass as his out of jail wild card.

Do you think that Xbox could sustain itself in these last years if not for Game Pass?

It's been years and years and years and years of Xbox telling you how "next year will be the best year" when talking first party videogames. And games just don't come out, and when they do, they become so short legged it's baffling how mismanaged some companies are.

There was a time when Microsoft had some balls and they would just "you put out games or you fuck off". And be known by this mantra and even be highly criticized for closing down studios that would just fail once.

Fast forward to present time, and they're now a big friends and Co. Company. Hands off approach, where they let their companies do what they like, sitting on Microsoft infinite pile of money.
And you end up with disasters like 343i sitting on their dicks for more than a decade butchering their star franchise. Or Rare becoming a support company that just put out a single new game in the last 10 years and not knowing what to do even with the things they wanted to make (Everwild).

Imagine all this but now at the same time without Game Pass.
Could Microsoft have survived the last run without Game Pass and only on its fans goodwill that sometime into the future they'd start having a steady stream of big releases like they'd do long ago times past?

Would any of you honestly be satisfied by Xbox output without Game Pass to give you air in between this long run dry times?

 

[cireza]

Game Pass has been a great way to have positive communication, however I think I remember reading that it was not generating that much money (15% I think). That's always good to have, but clearly Xbox is not surviving because of Game Pass alone.

 

[lh032]

Microsoft is screwed without gamepass.

 

[Punished Miku]

Its the reason I bought one E3 2 years ago. This isn't a new thought. Its by far the best thing they've done.

But they have made other calls that help make it a worthy purchase for me personally. Investing in studios. Investing in BC for old games. Investing in cloud for an optional mostly free thing. But the top thing is definitely GP so far.

 

[oldergamer]

No, people here act like MS wasn't making any money on games or something before game pass. They clearly were. Gamepass is more a way they can differentiate themselves from Sony. As they have stated in the past, it will never represent more then 10 - 15 % of their total business.

 

[DenchDeckard]

its deffo saved them this generation, so far. If they didnt have it, it would have been a blood bath.

A prime example of why competition is good, Microsoft made the best thing for their userbase, using their strengths and its paying off. Will only get better as more games release.

 

[AV]

I think "save" is an odd turn of phrase when they're clearly still the in the long onboarding phase. At the current subscriber count, assuming every subscriber pays $15 a month for Ultimate (they certainly don't) it will still take them 13 years to pay off the Activision acquisition via GP subs alone at the current rate. They can only do such things because they're Microsoft.

I love Game Pass but I got it in usual VPN loophole, so it costs me like $3 a month or something silly. I'm not a good customer for them but they don't seem to care about closing that loophole, they want to be able to say they have X million people using the service to attract more people who will pay the $15/m - a price that will absolutely increase at some point.

I'm more confident than ever that WoW subscriptions will just roll into Game Pass and that's an immediate 4-5m to bolster the figure. The higher that number gets, the harder it is for non-subscribers to ignore.

 

[Stuart360]

I think people on here put way too much stock in first party exclusives, and their importance with the masses, BUT they do have an effect to an extent, and Gamepass has def helped the Series consoles sell at a time where some poeple may of held off and waited until the first party games started coming consistantly.
So yeah Gamepass has def helped Xbox sales this gen so far.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Maybe, it's the entire reason my friends went with the xsx though, I even sold one of my xsx's to a friend and he too is making full use of gamepass; now these are guys that don't have specific allegiances, they've all had xbox or ps in the past, but they did pass on the PS5 this gen simply cause gamepass gives them more value (and with that I mean they are stingy and don't want to pay for any entertainment media really).

 

[Jesb]

It’s been so big it’s forced Sony to completely change what ps+ wouid be. It was very much needed for Xbox. They don’t have the 1st party output that Sony has so they needed something.

 

[HoofHearted]

 

[The_Mike]

Xbox would have survived without Game Pass, but it is without a doubt the most important feature/service for the brand.

 

[onnextflix5]

It’s the promise of mass cloud gaming that saved Xbox not gamepass,

 

[Mephisto40]

Gamepass is good, but you'd have to be a bit dumb to not see the correlation between gamepass releasing, and Microsoft's complete lack of decent first party games since it was launched

Since it came out Microsoft's only good AAA first party game has been Forza

 

[Raonak]

Depends if the resources spent on finding gamepass could have been better used for games funding

 

[mansoor1980]

 

[Beer Baelly]

Xbox never need saving

 

[Chukhopops]

It’s clearly a selling point and a unique value proposition.

I think people who like MS’ output and genre focus (like me) would be fine even without it, but I don’t think that population would be enough to sustain their ambition. In that context it’s fair to say it saved MS from a mainstream audience POV.

 

[In Cold Blood]

I wouldn't say saved them, no, but it definitely was one of the reasons why MS has still sold out of their consoles even without a first party game the last 12 months.

In the future it is going to be massive. If ABK goes through, and their back catalogue goes into GP, and all their new CODs are day one, it will take off big time.
Sony know this, which is why they are going as hard as they can to try and get the deal cancelled.

 

[AV]

Gamepass is good, but you'd have to be a bit dumb to not see the correlation between gamepass releasing, and Microsoft's complete lack of decent first party games since it was launched

Since it came out Microsoft's only good AAA first party game has been Forza

There isn't a correlation, though. The Xbox One had dogshit first party support and it was around for 4 years before Game Pass even showed up. Forza was the only great thing they had for a whole generation. Hell, they've got Flight Sim this generation too and cool stuff like Pentiment.

343i and The Coalition being "not great" devs has nothing to do with Game Pass.

 

[Reckheim]

Gamepass is great. Glad its on PC tho; no need for their hardware.

 

[Metnut]

I think they would’ve done better releasing more games rather than focusing on perpetually renting games to people who won’t end up owning anything. I think we’re seeing people’s patience run out given the declines in revenue we saw in Microsoft’s latest earnings report and all the layoffs they are having in the gaming division.

 

[Clintizzle]

While it is a unique value proposition. I think GamePass would have happened even if Xbox was the #1 gaming brand both in terms of revenue and popularity last gen.

GamePass at a basic level is a subscription service. If you look at Microsoft and their products you'll realise that they actually have very few "Products" and pretty much just offer all their IP as "services". Xbox was always going to switch from being a gaming product to a service that incorporates games for now and and will probably expand to other media soon.

Short answer is no. GamePass didn't save Xbox as Microsoft was always to change Xbox to that model anyway.

 

[Chronicle]

How about put it in the gamepass dedicated threads.

Xboxers are always talking about promises.
First it was Kinect. You guys had that so overhyped and bought into so much bull crap and it turned out to be terrible from start to finish.

Then it was the power of the cloud and all gen it was 'wait and see. The games are coming'. And it was all 100% bullshit.

Now it's Let's buy all kinds of studios and while we wait well cry about how good our subscription service is. Then they lay off 10k workers and some from the studios they bought.

Show us games or stfu.

It's not that I hate on Xbox but it's just these threads and constant shilling of some overhyped product. Just put it in the dedicated gamepass thread.

 

[crackajack]

Did it save anything (worth saving) or risk an important part of the revenue stream of devs long term? And dragged Sony with them, as they were kind of forced to play along and this shift is too huge to ignore even if you are one of the two market leaders, while Nintendo might anyway play in their own league for the foreseeable future but might need to adjust soon too. Games probably will be altered to fit into this new system. Probably for worse. Like Netflix maximizing mass market engagement instead of proper fun like HBO.
As a customer I use new PS+ but as a non ignorant being I thought old PS+ (and GWG when they still bothered) was already huge value for the money asked. Already cheaper than bargain bin content. Now it's too much to even dream of getting through. Since it is entire N64 numbers' catalogues for a relatively small fee. EGS freebies are another desperate approach of a want to be growing company and the jury is still out if they just burn money or actually gain market share. Gog doing the same with much cheaper free titles. While Steam swims in money, not even doing much themselves.
Cheap downward spiral is fun for everyone involved until the actual cash cow says no. Without Fortnite Epic could not operate like they do, without Windows and Office and Azure MS could not operate like they do.
But the damage is already done, a lot of people already pretend like a few bucks is too much for games. Formerly those attitudes were home on mobile.

 

[Punished Miku]

I think they would’ve done better releasing more games rather than focusing on perpetually renting games to people who won’t end up owning anything.

You can buy anything you want. I still buy anything I truly loved on GP. You can beat a game and then wait a few years and buy it dirt cheap. Best of both worlds.

If GP was the only way to play certain games I'd be complaining. Right now they're doing very well at providing multiple options for whatever you want, and doing a great job on BC so those purchases stay valid.

 

[kyussman]

I thought that was the entire point of GamePass in the first place.....they were getting stomped by Sony,they had fuck all first party studios and they needed something of their own to get them back in the race......so it's worked as intended.

 

[mxbison]

Don't know about saved, but it definitely gave Xbox a new (and better) identity.

 

[6502]

Gamepass and all access were great moves. If they release a £40 gamepass / xcloud stick they will rip ahead of the rest of the industry and win the generation imo. That will save them.

I would like a better rate of games from 1st party, I survived the past year on Halo, Forza 5 and then 6 / 7 last gen games, that can't last a generation, I wont wait 10 years for the next Halo... You would think with gamepass they would start knocking out one AAA major 1st party franchise a year and several AA or 10hr games and dlcs.

They should also secure ports of the entire Sega arcade catalogue imo.

 

[reinking]

I suppose it could go both ways. If MS had not put so much focus on Game Pass would we be seeing growth in other areas?

 

[SmokedMeat]

Microsoft’s output was never impressive. Without Game Pass and internal studio investment we’d have the same Microsoft that existed on Xbox 360. The one that kept paying for timed exclusivity of big third party releases as well as CoD map packs.

You’ve got to be high if you think they wouldn’t be spending money in other ways if Game Pass didn’t exist.

 

[Punished Miku]

I suppose it could go both ways. If MS had not put so much focus on Game Pass would we be seeing growth in other areas?

Growth in timed exclusive moneyhatting.

 

[The Tourmaline Gorilla]

The problem with this argument and premise is that people are assuming MS would take the same approach as it is doing now, if Game Pass didn't exist. That falls along the lines of supposition at best and logical fallacy, at worst.

That is to say, assuming Game Pass didn't exist, all of the money and time they've invested in Game Pass (deals, games, all of the infrastructure, marketing, team management and human resources, support, etc) would have simply gone unused and their game output would be the exact same. That's a very bold assumption.

But, I'll entertain it... They wouldn't have lasted, at all. Play Station sales would steamroll them 10:1, or even greater.

 

[Topher]

Definitely played a part. If nothing else, Game Pass has generated a positive buzz around Xbox when it was mostly negative last gen. Changing the narrative about Xbox was a huge step in the right direction. I'd Game Pass in combination with better vision in hardware design after the disastrous Xbox One/Kinect fiasco along with the expansion of the Xbox brand outside of the console plastic box all had crucial parts to play in Xbox as it is today.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

absolutely.

 

[BlackTron]

Game Pass has been a great way to have positive communication, however I think I remember reading that it was not generating that much money (15% I think). That's always good to have, but clearly Xbox is not surviving because of Game Pass alone.

GP didn't "save" them as in making a lot of money, it hasn't. But I think it still saved the Xbox brand which for MS has a lot of intangible value. GP "saved" Xbox from even further loss of that value and by maintaining a position from which they can recover -which means an ass load of money in the big picture. It gave them momentum and traction when they didn't have anything else to do it with.

It was brilliant, but it's not as brilliant as putting out some good games would have been.

 

[Mephisto40]

There isn't a correlation, though. The Xbox One had dogshit first party support and it was around for 4 years before Game Pass even showed up. Forza was the only great thing they had for a whole generation. Hell, they've got Flight Sim this generation too and cool stuff like Pentiment.

343i and The Coalition being "not great" devs has nothing to do with Game Pass.

I just think games are in series danger of incorporating more and more microtransactions to cover the costs of not having a steady income stream from people buying their games any more, these 'lump sum' deals they are being offered to put games on subscription services are going to have a huge impact on the quality of games that get released, imo we are already seeing it with games like Halo : Infinite, and you'd be a fool not to think them releasing it on gamepass day 1 didnt have an effect on it inside and out

There is a reason Sony's AAA games are not available on PS+ day one, and seem to be doing a lot better than Microsofts offerings

 

[RyRy93]

In terms of income generated from game pass it may only equate to this 10-15% figure people keep quoting but as you say OP it can definitely tip the balance and make someone enter the Xbox ecosystem and spend money on other things.

 

[acm2000]

without game pass they wouldve had to money hat some third party games instead while waiting for their first party to catch up thats for sure

 

[Topher]

without game pass they wouldve had to money hat some third party games instead while waiting for their first party to catch up thats for sure

They have money hatted third party games as well.

 

[therealmoonface]

GamePass is literally why I got a XSX at launch instead of a PS5. I want to play games and it’s the service that gives me an insane amount to play. (I’ll pick up a PS5 further into the gen when there’s a slim version and a price cut) And I view GamePass, along with the studio acquisitions, as a tool to show to their audience how serious they are. It could be argued that they went the PS route with exclusivity for the 360/Xbox gen with quite the success but the RROD disaster basically balanced that out. Changed course completely with the Xbox One gen and this direction obviously didn’t click with its audience. Late into that gen is when you saw the one-two punch of GamePass/studio growth, without those, Xbox would definitely be in far worse shape this gen without them. Also not completely focusing on console only but being far better about PC releases and support is also a part of their overall overhaul of their gaming approach.

 

[feynoob]

Take gamepass away and Xbox s/x would have fewer games since launch.

 

[Topher]

Take gamepass away and Xbox s/x would have fewer games since launch.

How so?

 

[Roxkis_ii]

I think game pass did save Xbox last year.

 

[Kilau]

 

[AV]

I just think games are in series danger of incorporating more and more microtransactions to cover the costs of not having a steady income stream from people buying their games any more, these 'lump sum' deals they are being offered to put games on subscription services are going to have a huge impact on the quality of games that get released, imo we are already seeing it with games like Halo : Infinite, and you'd be a fool not to think them releasing it on gamepass day 1 didnt have an effect on it inside and out

There is a reason Sony's AAA games are not available on PS+ day one, and seem to be doing a lot better than Microsofts offerings

Again, none of this really tracks consistently when Forza Horizon 5 has no* MTX, all credits are earned in-game as far as I can tell, and Gran Turismo 7 sold at full price was notoriously bad for them. GT7 isn't on PS+. It's a separate issue that MTX is becoming more and more prevalent, it was going to happen with or without Game Pass. Some games will have them, others won't.

*edit: FH5 does indeed have MTX, I just didn't realise during my playthrough. GT7 is still heads and tails worse.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I think game pass is great for customers, but I think one consequence of this is it discourages casuals from buying games on the console.

Which is probably not good for business.

they were in panic mode. Game Pass was an act of desperation.

 

[feynoob]

How so?

Their output has been very light.
Gamepass was the one that was keeping them on the spotlight.
Not to mention, they managed to get Japanese games thanks to gamepass.

 

[MH3M3D]

Its fantastic as a concept, but in reality I found it super underwhelming. It only has old games and all the best AAA-exclusives are not out yet. Here's hoping MS steps up in 2023. Sony is blowing them out of the water in terms of exclusives.
I don't mind paying per game as long as its worth it and... actually exists and has come out.

 

[DavidGzz]

If they didn't have Game Pass they would simply be doing what Sony is doing. Paying for 1-2 year exclusives so they'd be fine. MS has the funds to compete no matter what.