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DF: The Touryst PS5 - The First 8K 60fps Console Game

Snake29

RSI Employee of the Year
Series X version is a port of Xbox one whereas PS5 version is rewritten from ground up.

Most games and Hitman runs at higher resolution on SX. So i don't get how Tourist guys botched SX version lol.

But these same "most games" have a "worst" performance over the PS5 versions and sometimes even graphical settings lower like textures. As long as the XSX can't perform better with a higher res or even better graphics, then the XSX isn't performing better over the PS5 in general.
 

Connxtion

Member
Why do people keep lying about this game? First it's a BC game then... Stop it. Get some help.

The game had to be built on the newer SDK so they could change the resolution as BC mode doesn’t allow it unless MS patch the game at there end.
 
That's exactly how I feel reading all this stuff Sigh.

@Mod of War, start banning these people.

I miss the old days when i could call the likes of @Bo_hazen,(Rip) Riky Riky and @Ass of Can Whooping sluts and get away with it.

FML "lollipop_disappointed:

Off to play diablo 2 again, look what you have all done. :messenger_heart:

Remember those juicy days. Wish I could see Phil's ass in 8K mmm, that subsurface ass scattering would POP. 😍😘
 

Riky

$MSFT
I had forgotten to address it, but edited my comment soon after. The 60hz mode does NOT perform better on XSX. Both PS5 and XSX hit 60 FPS 99.9% of the time, as evident in the stats VGTech shared.

For reference to you and everyone else, here is the spreadsheet again to verify that both consoles hit 60 FPS 99.9% of the time, so no advantage.

Now, can you answer my question?

Goes to a lower minimum and more torn frames, so doesn't hold up to the narrow and faster theory your pushing.
 

Riky

$MSFT
I guess you seem to forgot that's not a feature exclusive to XBSX.
PS5: The Ultimate FAQ
Does PS5 support VRR?
PS5 hardware supports Variable Refresh Rate (VRR) through HDMI 2.1. After a future system software update, PS5 owners will be able to use the VRR feature of compatible TVs when playing games that support VRR.

Sony's PlayStation 5 VRR update imminent
After Sony has finally activated the long a awaited gaming feature via a firmware update on last year's Bravia LED TVs, the release of an according VRR update for the PS5 seems imminent.

Word on the street, the PS5 team has it working but can’t release it until the TV division has got their act together. It would create a strange marketing situation whereby you can use VRR on your Sony PlayStation so long as you don’t have a Sony TV.

So it's best you start your VRR rehab, so when the VRR update comes the PS5. It wouldn't hit you as hard.

It won't be hitting me hard at all, I've a PS5 and a VRR TV so the sooner the better, don't want juddering and screen tearing at all.

But I'm still waiting, nearly for a year and I had this feature on Xbox last gen.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Goes to a lower minimum and more torn frames, so doesn't hold up to the narrow and faster theory your pushing.
By "lower minimum", you mean 58 instead of 59 FPS? 😄. The mean is still 99.9%. So the difference is 0.01%, and you're counting it?

In 120 FPS, the difference is 94% vs 91%, so a 3% difference. And about the 3% difference, didn't you just say:
"The difference was also so small it is within margin of error, you can get slightly different results on the same machine in multiple tests, so I don't think it proves anything really."
What is going on here? 😄 A 0.01% difference shows the "power difference" between the consoles, and a 3% difference is "within a margin of error" that "doesn't prove anything"?

Edit: You still haven't answered my earlier question though. Ignored it for the third time. The question was:
There are games like COD (and not just small indie games) that would favor the PS5's GPU architecture, just as there are games that would favor the XSX's GPU architecture.

Do you agree? Or do you think that no, all games and game engines will only favor the XSX architecture and in all the games that PS5 has outperformed XSX is only because of an anomaly?
 
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Riky

$MSFT
By "lower minimum", you mean 58 instead of 59 FPS? 😄. The mean is still 99.9%. So the difference is 0.01%, and you're counting it?

In 120 FPS, the difference is 94% vs 91%, so a 3% difference. And about the 3% difference, didn't you just say:

What is going on here? 😄 A 0.01% difference shows the "power difference" between the consoles, and a 3% difference is "within a margin of error" that "doesn't prove anything"?

Edit: You still haven't answered my earlier question though. Ignored it for the third time. The question was:

You edited your question In so I didn't see it.
Point is if this engine favours PS5 as you claim then in the 60hz mode it would be the Series X that had more torn frames and a lower minimum framerate, but it isn't.

As for your "question"

It would have to be a very specific workload for the narrow and fast GPU to outperform a bigger GPU, that is what we always see in the PC space.

As for this game I think people need to read the quote the developer gave a bit more carefully. He is asked about the difference, he states that the memory setup and faster clocks "make up the difference" as in pull the PS5 version to parity to the XSX. He then goes on to say and he didn't just port the PS4 version but rewrote the engine, that implies to me that they did just use the Xbox One version for the Series X with no rewrite.
It's unfortunate that DF didn't ask that question for clarity but that's what I see it as saying.
 

Md Ray

Member
He is asked about the difference, he states that the memory setup and faster clocks "make up the difference" as in pull the PS5 version to parity to the XSX.
He said "makes the difference", not "makes up the difference" there's a difference between them, lol.

why you always lying GIF
 
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Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
You edited your question In so I didn't see it.
Point is if this engine favours PS5 as you claim then in the 60hz mode it would be the Series X that had more torn frames and a lower minimum framerate, but it isn't.

As for your "question"

It would have to be a very specific workload for the narrow and fast GPU to outperform a bigger GPU, that is what we always see in the PC space.

As for this game I think people need to read the quote the developer gave a bit more carefully. He is asked about the difference, he states that the memory setup and faster clocks "make up the difference" as in pull the PS5 version to parity to the XSX. He then goes on to say and he didn't just port the PS4 version but rewrote the engine, that implies to me that they did just use the Xbox One version for the Series X with no rewrite.
It's unfortunate that DF didn't ask that question for clarity but that's what I see it as saying.
He said "makes the difference", not "makes up the difference" there's a difference between them, lol.

why you always lying GIF

eTzvyAn.jpg

  • Makes the difference = To cause a change, to have a significant difference, or to be important in some way.
  • Making up = What you just did 😂
 

Mr Moose

Member

The game had to be built on the newer SDK so they could change the resolution as BC mode doesn’t allow it unless MS patch the game at there end.
They didn't change the resolution, they added modes, it's 4k 120, 6k 60.
It's Gen9 btw.
 

Mr Moose

Member
Still irrelevant, as he says "beyond this" so in a question he is asked on a direct comparison to Series X he says they rewrote the engine therefore implying he didn't on Xbox.
There's no direct quote from the dev, but we know the Series version is a native app using the new GDK. They did not just port the Xbox One version.
You would want a PS5 game to use the PS5 apis, if it isn't... What's the point?
 

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
There's no direct quote from the dev, but we know the Series version is a native app using the new GDK. They did not just port the Xbox One version.
You would want a PS5 game to use the PS5 apis, if it isn't... What's the point?
Wasn't there a post here showing that it wasn't just gen9 aware but full gen 9?And do we really have to explain to people that for a game to be native between ps5/xss/switch devs have to do more work than just renaming the icon to ps5/xss/switch? Or drag and drop the files in the API like you can copy a file in windows?
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
You would think by 19 pages someone would have just tweeted the dev and asked.

Did you port the xbox one version to the series X or was that written from the ground up like the PS5 version?

Simples haha
 
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Mr Moose

Member
There are plenty of Series X native apps that are just ports, Forza Horizon 4 for example.
This game isn't.
One X version doesn't have 2 modes, it's just 4k 60fps.
This is 4k 120, 6k 60.
Wasn't there a post here showing that it wasn't just gen9 aware but full gen 9?And do we really have to explain to people that for a game to be native between ps5/xss/switch devs have to do more work than just renaming the icon to ps5/xss/switch? Or drag and drop the files in the API like you can copy a file in windows?
FAjHIeMWQAIeeEK
 

Riky

$MSFT
Native app that's optimized for Series consoles (it's on their list), a simple port wouldn't be. I think those are Gen 9 aware or something(?).

Its the most simple of port, it was a port of the performance mode of the One X version, so much so some parts were actually downgrades from the original 30fps One X mode.
 

Mr Moose

Member
Its the most simple of port, it was a port of the performance mode of the One X version, so much so some parts were actually downgrades from the original 30fps One X mode.
Seems a bit mixed, but that shows it's not just a simple port.
You do get some upgrades - car model quality is improved, while the real-time probe reflections applied to vehicles now run at 60fps as well, unlike Xbox One X. Unfortunately, not much else is improved over the 1080p60 mode on Xbox One X, so by extension, we're missing features found in One X's quality mode. For the Series consoles, that means that headlight shadows at night are not present in races, only in the open world - they're present in both at 4K30 on One X.
 

Riky

$MSFT
Huh? This game wasn't completely re-written lol.
The Dev says he didn't just port the PS4 version when he's asked about the difference between Series X and PS5. That implies he did just that with the Series version at launch no less.
Unless DF ask him that question we'll never know but that is what is said.
 

Mr Moose

Member
The Dev says he didn't just port the PS4 version when he's asked about the difference between Series X and PS5. That implies he did just that with the Series version at launch no less.
Unless DF ask him that question we'll never know but that is what is said.
Someone should ask them on Twitter.
 

Dodkrake

Banned
Mark Cerny called it the new Geometry Engine. RDNA had a new Geometry Engine compared to GCN. All the features he talked about are possible and detailed in the RDNA whitepaper. There is no reason to assume it is anything but, heck try and Google any source for it being anything special and all you get is information from "insiders" who were all wrong on everything else they speculated about.

The PS1 had a Geometry Transformation Engine - PS1 was RNDA2
Pascal had a Geometry Engine - Pascal was RDNA2


Graphics cards have had geometry engines for a while. Just because they don't have a fancy name, like "Ultra Graphics Pipeline Architecture", it doesn't mean they are one and the same.

 

dcmk7

Banned
  • Makes the difference = To cause a change, to have a significant difference, or to be important in some way.
  • Making up = What you just did 😂
This explains what's happening pretty well. Not sure why it's so difficult for some to understand, and leads to them twisting the truth altogether.

The developer said 'Makes the difference'.. I'm sure he would have explained and expanded more on the subject if XSX version was a port. Since the differences would obviously be significant.

Not sure what the big deal is. It still renders at 6k for XSX. Still impressive.
 
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Dodkrake

Banned
Bold statement indeed. I think the opposite will end up proving true. Series X as the gen moves on will start stretching its legs and leave no doubt, particularly once things like Sampler Feedback Streaming become more common. And if the machine learning hardware ends up producing like Microsoft claims it will, the difference will be even more significant.

Yeah, no doubt. That split memory and 2 more teraflops will prove to be essential in providing a massive difference. If you add SFS, VRR, RNDA 2 full stack and a bag of chips, the Xbox will virtually be a quantum computer.

Edit: oh how I missed Riky Riky leaving a triggered emoji on my comments. Such a mature response from a wanker that called me a paedophile and got away with a week suspension.
 
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John Wick

Member
You would think by 19 pages someone would have just tweeted the dev and asked.

Did you port the xbox one version to the series X or was that written from the ground up like the PS5 version?

Simples haha
Why ask the developer? Wtf do they know?
We have Riky our own resident armchair expert along with others who think they know better. They've already changed their qoates to match their narrative.
 

Riky

$MSFT
Well Xbox needed it, since it can't hold a stable frame rate in most games, unlike the PS5.

Such as? Just looked at the newest release in Far Cry 6 and it's up to 29% resolution advantage at a slightly better framerate. Same as for Doom Eternal.
 
Yeah, no doubt. That split memory and 2 more teraflops will prove to be essential in providing a massive difference. If you add SFS, VRR, RNDA 2 full stack and a bag of chips, the Xbox will virtually be a quantum computer.

Edit: oh how I missed Riky Riky leaving a triggered emoji on my comments. Such a mature response from a wanker that called me a paedophile and got away with a week suspension.

Call them massive or whatever you will, I'm not calling them any of that. But this is about far more than just merely 2 more teraflops in reality. It's about a significant boost to memory efficiency (aka more RAM to use) that's what SFS means for this system. That equates to much better utilization by the GPU of its top most memory bandwidth of 560GB/s. It means extra vitally important RAM to fit other things. These things I'm talking about are all things developers can use to be more efficient with the use of the available power the console offers. Same thing on PS5 side. You think in any generation these consoles are somehow getting stronger? No. They're being used more intelligently. The power never truly changes. The developers simply get smarter, more resourceful.

VRS Tier 2 is again not about giving you some massive boost. That's about giving you just enough extra percentages worth of frametime back that you can hopefully use that to ensure your game doesn't need dynamically scale down resolution as much, or stays within its framerate target more often. The coalition has an excellent blog on the subject.


That 10% higher resolution is key performance savings. Don't underestimate how important that can be, and what it can mean

We found our approach allowed us to play to the strengths of both Dynamic Resolution Scaling and Variable Rate Shading. VRS takes a first stab at applying coarse shading based on the edge detection results. Next frame, Dynamic Resolution Scaling looks at the total GPU frame time with the VRS savings being factored in and adjusts the scaling if needed. As an example, VRS applied to the real-time cinematics on the Xbox Series X allowed for dynamic resolution to run an average of 10% higher, and in the best cases, removed the need for any downscaling altogether.


VRR is more of a luxury item that no developer for Series X, in my opinion, should ever count on, but they know its there to clean up any perceived performance imperfections to the end user who has a capable TV. I'm happy that I do have such a TV. This isn't included in any of what I'm saying. That's a luxury item for the end user and nothing more. It's an invaluable feature for situations where a game has issues, but we all want excellent optimization. I think we agree there. The developer can't do anything with that to my knowledge to make Xbox run any more or less good in a game.

Mesh Shaders are something we know to have tremendous potential for what it could end up meaning for the amount of geometry detail that could end up appearing in Xbox and PC titles designed for it. It could mean possibly getting more geometry work done, far superior culling on a level just not seen in games today, and with that more advanced geometry handling and processing combined with that superior, much faster and more efficient means of culling it all, you are again freeing up more of the GPU and other hardware to be able to do more effective work overall.

Hardware Accelerated Machine Learning - Microsoft has put in their official hotchips presentation that it can be used for resolution scaling, AI and I think animations. Two of these things can lead to more convincing looking games, one of them, the resolution scaling if it works, could lead to developers using much lower resolutions to push the system even harder, yet it still look very high resolution regardless. So I'm not talking about Series X getting anymore powerful than it already is. I'm talking about the system having tricks for days to open up more opportunities for devs to extract results from the system well beyond what people might have expected, not because it's suddenly getting more powerful, but because it's being a lot more intelligently utilized. Having power alone is nothing, it's pointless.

If you can spend 20% or 30% to get results that look like 90% of what the people want as opposed to spending 90% to get that same 90%, the choice of which is the more efficient option is clear.

All these features I talk about on Series X are about doing things smarter, not about the hardware becoming more powerful. Sony are masters at this shit. PS4 and PS4 Pro didn't get stronger as the gen went, the devs just got smarter with how they use it through the same innovations in efficiency and optimization. That's all I'm talking about. Not magical secret sauce. :)
 
Such as? Just looked at the newest release in Far Cry 6 and it's up to 29% resolution advantage at a slightly better framerate. Same as for Doom Eternal.

Exactly. Xbox doesn't need it. Having it is a luxury to the end user. That's all. Xbox has been demonstrating its GPU advantage for some time before its top end features are really utilized. I won't go saying it's massive, or will become that, but it's also not insignificant either because we know games are only going to keep getting more demanding, not less. And I'm not saying anything bad or negative about the PS5 here either, just pointing out that Series X for its apparent advantage it has on paper is doing as advertised, nothing more. Every little bit matters. That doesn't mean we're saying PS5 sucks. It's an amazing console too. I sure as hell wouldn't own it if I felt it wasn't a beast.
 

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
At this point is this thread even about The Touryst the 1st 8K 60fps console game anymore?


I guess people trying to get the thread closed or something
Well what do you want there's always warrior tht can't cope with any advantages one console could have over the other.So it derails to conspiracy, bad/lazy dev and lots of others excuses when it is so simple to simply say yeah it does run better congrats.
 

MarkMe2525

Gold Member
Everyone should just stop. It's a rather pointless argument. We didn't hear the whole conversation. Using pulled quotes isn't going to provide a satisfactory answer to anyone on either side of this debate. All we know is ps5 is 8k and XSX is 6k. There are better hills to die on.
 
At this point is this thread even about The Touryst the 1st 8K 60fps console game anymore?


I guess people trying to get the thread closed or something

To be fair, it never was in a way. From the start people have been trying to use this game as a launchpad to make blanket assumptions about even more demanding future games. Some said this was a sign of things to come and how PS5 would only stretch its lead further, that this was a sign that Cerny's claims on clock speed and a narrower, faster approach would prove superior. Heck, there were already folks on just the last two pages preparing to dance in the endzone about how Battlefield and Far Cry 6 would turn out, and were already implying the games would be better on ps5 before we truly knew anything about either of those games. Now Far Cry 6 has been analyzed. I don't really need to say much more about that game.

Other than that, I do think this thread has been a good one. It hasn't been a bunch of trolling, though some have certainly tried their best to take it there. It triggered a discussion on the merits or claims that this or any one particular thing is the cause of why this game hit 8K on PS5, but not on Series X, and I think we got some good information out, all things considered. But that's my view.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Looking at the file info is useless, you are only getting info that it's been compiled for native execution, which means almost nothing (at least on Xbox so far), because many APIs are just in deprecated state (and will be for year or? hard to say, 2 years are mostly "Microsoft time"), thus if you can ignore the ⚠️ in the IDE, you can run this code no issues.

Also most of the time additional time = additional optimalisation and you can go deep on PS5. Not so much on Xbox. But one thing for sure, you don't have to take into account the fast/slow RAM bank...but then again, you can't really code that low on Xbox. The title OS, will take care of that. People looking at the HW differences really understates, where the real differences are...

Also cool, now The Touryst is interesting game. I like it a lot so I am enjoying the exposure.
 
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