[DF] The Medium PS5: Big Changes vs Xbox Series X + PC Comparisons

GHG

Member
Unoptimized games run badly even on PC lol what are you talking about.

Yes but on PC there's always the option to throw more power at the problem and brute force it provided you are willing to spend the money. There are also edge case scenarios where modders might step in and fix it.

That's not an option on console and you have to take what you're given.
 

Swift_Star

Banned
Yes but on PC there's always the option to throw more power at the problem and brute force it provided you are willing to spend the money. There are also edge case scenarios where modders might step in and fix it.

That's not an option on console and you have to take what you're given.
Ah yes, I remember how that worked with Batman Arkham Knight, right?
 
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GHG

Member
Ah yes, I remember how that worked with Batman Arkham Knight, right?

Yeh it was a shit show and I refunded my GMG copy.

You can pick out the single worst case scenario where it couldn't be fixed through any means, or you can be sensible and realise that 99% of the time better hardware or mods offer a viable solution. Your choice.
 

skit_data

Member
Interesting comparison.

I agree with DF that the optimal way would be to give both consoles a Performance/Fidelity option, would probably be the best for both.

I only have a 1080p screen so Series X version is preferable for me, whereas most normal people have a 4k screen in which the PS5 version is probably the prefered version.
 

ParaSeoul

Member
The one thing this game had going for it when the exclusivity was over was to at least be an interesting tech benchmark to show the differences between the two consoles and they even fucked that up.
 

assurdum

Banned
Forgive my ignorance but shadow and raytracing resolution and general graphic effects, doesn't appear lower resolution if the whole framebuffer is noticeable higher? I mean XSX, it's 1440p in the best case Vs almost 1800p on ps5, of course some graphic effects seems higher resolution at 1440p than at 1800p. Anyway hope they will fix frame pacing on ps5 too. Good news they did it on XSX, I thought they have left it.
 
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Zathalus

Member
Parity clause still a thing aka both version are not allowed to look similar, be the same? Hence the changes? This makes no sense. Why up to res. but make everything else worse?

fuck bloober
fuck the medium
They made everything else worse to up the resolution. One naturally flows from the other. If they were to disable RT entirely then the resolution would be even higher.

This has got nothing to do with any supposed parity, if that was the case they would obviously try and make the games look as close to each other as possible.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Forgive my ignorance but shadow and raytracing resolution and general graphic effects, doesn't appear lower resolution if the whole framebuffer is noticeable higher? I mean XSX, it's 1440p in the best case Vs almost 1800p on ps5, of course some graphic effects seems higher resolution at 1440p than at 1800p. Anyway hope they will fix frame pacing on ps5 too. Good news they did it on XSX, I thought they have left it.
That’s not how it works. Each one has its own frame buffer with it’s own resolution.
 
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assurdum

Banned
That’s not how it works. Each one has its own frame buffer with it’s own resolution.
Well RDR2 on One X has noticeable blurred lighting effects in the morning because it is double of resolution of the Pro. Isn't it exactly crazy stuff what I said.
 
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RoboFu

One of the green rats
Well RDR2 on One X has noticeable blurred lighting effects in the morning because it is double of resolution of the Pro. Isn't it exactly crazy stuff what I said.

think of it this way the final overall resolution can make a higher res look lower but it can’t make a lower res higher.

it’s exactly like scaling a image in ms paint.
 

assurdum

Banned
Lower ray tracing resolution, slightly lower quality shadows and different AO on the PS5 but higher resolution:



Both John and Alex seem to think the changes for the PS5 version are favourable in a lot of cases but as a whole the situation is subjective.

For framerate, 30fps on both. They've improved the frame pacing issues that were in the original Xbox Series version at launch, that problem is now mostly gone but there are some scenes where it will drop frames. The PS5 version has inherited the launch frame pacing bug from the Xbox version - Alex said Blooper need to address and fix that because it's actually a solid 30fps if not for the inconsistent frame pacing.

The load time problem for the PS5 version is still yet to be fixed - not using the available API's for loading.

Let the games begin.

dj khaled ciara GIF by AMAs
Jesus Christ. 1026p Vs 1620p, "the changes are favourable for ps5 but situations it is subjective". The hell should even means. ps5 has noticeable higher resolution than XSX, just says it Dictator, it won't hurts you lol
 
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Killer8

Member
Unoptimized games run badly even on PC lol what are you talking about.

The screenshot posted in the second reply of this thread demonstrates the problem immediately. Almost every console game which features ray tracing on console is doing it in a severely gimped way.

The Medium - the resolution of RT on console is so low it literally looks like i'm suffering from glaucoma
Metro Exodus - missing RT reflections completely on consoles. Many settings like LOD are running well below ultra to maintain 60FPS. Blurry dynamic resolution. The game runs on an RTX2060 at >60fps with full RT, ultra setting, while looking sharper.
Control - limited to 30fps on console in RT mode. You are literally playing it on mostly low settings on PS5, with half the RT settings disabled to even run.
Watch Dogs Legion - runs at below medium RT settings on console with various missing reflections. Gets 30fps at 80% of 4K. An RTX 2060 Super will get you higher settings at better framerates at full 4K.
Forza Horizon 5 - RT in Forza Vista limited to 30fps

Notice the trend? If a game on console has ray tracing you can expect a mix of the following: 30fps, a reduction in the quality of RT, missing RT elements, and often a reduction in other settings too, like LOD.



Meanwhile mid-spec RTX cards from 3 years ago are running these games at higher settings and framerates..

Ah yes, I remember how that worked with Batman Arkham Knight, right?

Sure, pick the most edge case scenario you can think of - one of the worst releases in PC history. That's surely representative of all PC games. :messenger_sleeping:
 

assurdum

Banned
Ok now I start to think Dictator is an idiot. The ps5 version is not absolutely that dark. I have the game, the game appears extremely brighter on my LG monitor without HDR though I don't understand why this genius doesn't uses HDR which improve notably the gamma setup on ps5. It's the second time Alex did this bullshit, a pc passionate hasn't learned yet how setup the contrast on ps5. Like the fuck is wrong on him.
 

SenjutsuSage

Halo TV Series Promoter - Live from: Reach
I really like this and the Touryst video for one simple reason. It shows you, given more time, the kinds of decisions developers will make to better optimize their game and give it a better visual presentation through common sense changes that most won't notice. In the end you notice a clearer image and better performance. They just need to fix the frame pacing. Great video.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Jesus Christ. 1026p Vs 1620p, "the changes are favourable for ps5 but situations it is subjective". The hell should even means. ps5 has noticeable higher resolution than XSX, just says it Dictator, it won't hurts you lol
XSX vs PS5
RTAO vs No RTAO
Higher Shadow Quality vs Lower Shadow Quality
Higher res RT Reflections vs Lower res RT Reflections
1440p vs 1800p peaks
Frame pacing fixed vs Frame pacing issues

Basically higher quality running at a lower resolution or a lower resolution running at a lower quality.

So yes it is subjective which of these things do you care about the most will dictate which one you think is better.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Jesus Christ. 1026p Vs 1620p, "the changes are favourable for ps5 but situations it is subjective". The hell should even means. ps5 has noticeable higher resolution than XSX, just says it Dictator, it won't hurts you lol
The article says the lowest on Series X is 720p… not 1026p… there are 17 samples and one of them is 720p… I don’t know why Alex choose to hide 4 in the video.
 
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Darsxx82

Member
Series X.

“Across 17 matched samples, Xbox Series X ran with resolution that varied from an absolute low of 720p (thankfully an outlier) to 1440p.”

It is in the video and article.
And this just a couple of lines too....

"On the really taxing dual-view angles which are The Medium's trademark, Xbox Series X seemed consistent at 972p, whereas PS5 clocked in at 1188p instead".

No RTAO, RT reflections reduced , reduced shadow quality, and light sources removed... If we look only at the cost of rt on consoles, the cut in resolution is consistent with it. I would say that even less than in other cases. The million dollar question is why bet on these differences and not to offer both options on both consoles.
 

assurdum

Banned
XSX vs PS5
RTAO vs No RTAO
Higher Shadow Quality vs Lower Shadow Quality
Higher res RT Reflections vs Lower res RT Reflections
1440p vs 1800p peaks
Frame pacing fixed vs Frame pacing issues

Basically higher quality running at a lower resolution or a lower resolution running at a lower quality.

So yes it is subjective which of these things do you care about the most will dictate which one you think is better.
The difference in resolution in shadows and reflections is minimal. In the whole resolution it's not. Furthermore it seems FPS is better on ps5. But sure such improvement are 🤷‍♀️ subjective.
 

Arioco

Member
Forgive my ignorance but shadow and raytracing resolution and general graphic effects, doesn't appear lower resolution if the whole framebuffer is noticeable higher? I mean XSX, it's 1440p in the best case Vs almost 1800p on ps5, of course some graphic effects seems higher resolution at 1440p than at 1800p. Anyway hope they will fix frame pacing on ps5 too. Good news they did it on XSX, I thought they have left it.
think of it this way the final overall resolution can make a higher res look lower but it can’t make a lower res higher.

it’s exactly like scaling a image in ms paint.
XSX vs PS5
RTAO vs No RTAO
Higher Shadow Quality vs Lower Shadow Quality
Higher res RT Reflections vs Lower res RT Reflections
1440p vs 1800p peaks
Frame pacing fixed vs Frame pacing issues

Basically higher quality running at a lower resolution or a lower resolution running at a lower quality.

So yes it is subjective which of these things do you care about the most will dictate which one you think is better.
I really like this and the Touryst video for one simple reason. It shows you, given more time, the kinds of decisions developers will make to better optimize their game and give it a better visual presentation through common sense changes that most won't notice. In the end you notice a clearer image and better performance. They just need to fix the frame pacing. Great video.




Please guys,, use this other thread. I opened this one before realizing there was already a thread on the matter.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/df-t...-pc-comparisons.1620031/page-2#post-264729199
 

assurdum

Banned
Not if it had all these reductions. I would think that they would talk about it very much the same.
What all reductions we are talking about, let's be honest there. Did you have at least checked the entity of such reduction? In what way 720p is better than tone down a bit some graphic effects? They definitely cut off some shadows effects, that's for sure, but I'm not entirely convinced they are at all lower resolution. About raytracing well XSX has more CUs, something better they should do in the ends, though the difference is very subtle in the end.
 
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GHG

Member
Not if it had all these reductions. I would think that they would talk about it very much the same.

What all reductions we are talking about, let's be honest there. Did you have at least checked the entity of such reduction? In what way 720p is better than tone down a bit some graphic effects?

Don't know what you two are bickering about but Alex and John said that the overall result is that the choices made have resulted in an overall better looking game on the PS5.

Watch the video and listen to the discussion from around the 10 minute mark.
 

Arioco

Member
Metro Exodus - missing RT reflections completely on consoles. Many settings like LOD are running well below ultra to maintain 60FPS. Blurry dynamic resolution. The game runs on an RTX2060 at >60fps with full RT, ultra setting, while looking sharper.



What? LOL

A RTX 2060 does NOT hold 60 fps even at 1080p. It drops to around 30. 😂


 
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Warnen

Can he swing from a thread? Take a look overhead / Hey, there, there goes the Spider-Man
Would rather have better fps, higher res and baked in lighting then waste so much on raytracing this gen. Hope more game go this way in the future.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
Don't know what you two are bickering about but Alex and John said that the overall result is that the choices made have resulted in an overall better looking game on the PS5.

Watch the video and listen to the discussion from around the 10 minute mark.

This, so much. I wasn't planning to bicker. Personally, I would take a higher resolution more consistent framerate with lower settings. These consoles are not going to be able to step toe to toe with PC and I would personally take performance and resolution over features, but I can imagine that there may be people that would rather take more bells and whistles at a lower resolution.
 
Digital Foundry drives me nuts because I’ve been watching them since day one and I always did because I owned every console and wanted the result of which version to get.

They have become so neutral now I just use other channels with the raw data and that’s it. They are usually faster anyways too.

DF has become slow, unfocused and missing major content.

We get a video on The Medium THREE TIMES but not one for Psychonauts 2?

Insanity.
 
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Clear

Member
Bottom line, Bloober just aren't particularly technically proficient. They just aren't.

Where The Medium looks good it does so because they are brute-forcing everything, where it comes to detail and nuance (like the animation) you can see they simply aren't up there yet.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I only have a 1080p screen so Series X version is preferable for me, whereas most normal people have a 4k screen in which the PS5 version is probably the prefered version.
I see this in the XSS references too, but just having a 1080p screen does not mean you would not benefit from downsampling from a higher resolution. IQ wise the image will look better when the console downsample from an internally higher resolution down to your display. In the general XSX XSS case you also get better effects and higher resolution textures which you are also going to notice.
 

welshrat

Member
To be honest the game struggles with my 6800 and Ryzen 3700X so hardly surprising result.
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Digital Foundry drives me nuts because I’ve been watching them since day one and I always did because I owned every console and wanted the result of which version to get.

They have become so neutral now I just use other channels with the raw data and that’s it. They are usually faster anyways too.

DF has become slow, unfocused and missing major content.

We get a video on The Medium THREE TIMES but not one for Psychonauts 2?

Insanity.


P.S Do you think Psychonauts needs a deep dive?
 

killatopak

Member
Team Siren/Silent actually pushed the hardware. I am not confident about their SH project.
 
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Kenpachii

Member
Digital Foundry drives me nuts because I’ve been watching them since day one and I always did because I owned every console and wanted the result of which version to get.

They have become so neutral now I just use other channels with the raw data and that’s it. They are usually faster anyways too.

DF has become slow, unfocused and missing major content.

We get a video on The Medium THREE TIMES but not one for Psychonauts 2?

Insanity.

What's psychonauts and why would anybody care?

The medium is interesting because its a actual next gen title that pushes hardware to the edge.
 
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assurdum

Banned
Edited my previous post. Yes resolution seems higher but artifacts are more prounanced on XSX? I notice more pixelations on XSX though is slightly sharper.

 
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