• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Analysis DF - Scarlet Nexus: PS5 vs Xbox Series X/S Tech Breakdown - A True 4K60 On Next-Gen?

Kholinar

Banned
Nov 9, 2020
448
1,364
365
To be completely fair, both versions drop frames and it’s so close that the version that has VRR is the best version. That’s the actual truth. I would put money that you couldn’t notice a 1 frame a second difference but watching one on vrr tv vs the version without it you would deffo see a difference.
Still doesn’t change the internal performance, which still goes to PS5.
 

Kholinar

Banned
Nov 9, 2020
448
1,364
365
Nope, both versions have drops and only the Xbox version supports VRR, so it's the only version that can offer a perfect experience. :messenger_beaming:

Sorry to rain on your parade
If you have a TV capable of VRR, which a crippling majority of people do not. It also doesn’t change the fact that PS5 is more performant under the hood.

With superior loading, haptics, and performance, PS5 is the best place to play Scarlet Nexus. No additional £1000+ hardware required.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Mar 22, 2017
18,298
29,651
1,075
Still doesn’t change the internal performance, which still goes to PS5.

Congratulations! You have won your imaginary war your plastic box is better that other people's plastic box.
 
Mar 27, 2020
14,103
36,665
725
Uncharted bunghole
When using the R2 attacks you feel it picking up the items and throwing them including when they let go, haptics aren't mega great its more about the trigger actions during L2 attacks or R2

Nice thank you for answering my questions.

Some games don't even use the triggers so I was wondering if this game used them.
 

sircaw

has bigger MS points balance than reaction score.
Jul 3, 2019
6,992
36,470
845
A local pond.
The VRR capable console with the easy win again, unless you have an old TV then it's a draw. Also the fanboys celebrating a draw is peak cringe comedy, keep it coming :messenger_beaming:
So just to be clear, your saying that the win goes to sony, as the majority of people that will play this game don't own a VRR capable tv.

Is that what you're saying? "lollipop_disappointed:
 

HeisenbergFX4

Member
Dec 28, 2016
4,530
29,287
925
Some Beach
So just to be clear, your saying that the win goes to sony, as the majority of people that will play this game don't own a VRR capable tv.

Is that what you're saying? "lollipop_disappointed:

I read that as if you own a VRR display its a no brainer and he used the word draw for poeple with older TVs and saying its only fanboys celebrating.

No where did I see him say its a win for Sony.

Been out to sea too long my friend?
 
Mar 27, 2020
14,103
36,665
725
Uncharted bunghole
I read that as if you own a VRR display its a no brainer and he used the word draw for poeple with older TVs and saying its only fanboys celebrating.

No where did I see him say its a win for Sony.

Been out to sea too long my friend?

You're trying to kill him by dropping him into salt water?

You know he's from a pond right?

Right sircaw sircaw ?
 
  • Strength
  • Love
Reactions: Md Ray and sircaw

sircaw

has bigger MS points balance than reaction score.
Jul 3, 2019
6,992
36,470
845
A local pond.
I read that as if you own a VRR display its a no brainer and he used the word draw for poeple with older TVs and saying its only fanboys celebrating.

No where did I see him say its a win for Sony.

Been out to sea too long my friend?
You do realize who i am responding to yer, don't tell me you believe he is a straight shooter. "lollipop_disappointed:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Three and Md Ray

HeisenbergFX4

Member
Dec 28, 2016
4,530
29,287
925
Some Beach
You're trying to kill him by dropping him into salt water?

You know he's from a pond right?

Right sircaw sircaw ?

Umm yes :)

You do realize who i am responding to yer, don't tell me you believe he is a straight shooter. "lollipop_disappointed:

I dunno about any of his other posts and being a draw on older TVs is debatable since there is a whopping under 1% difference in frame rates so I guess a win is a win.

But there is no question regarding VRR which would make this the better experience
 

JackMcGunns

Member
Nov 26, 2018
751
1,374
360
If you have a TV capable of VRR, which a crippling majority of people do not. It also doesn’t change the fact that PS5 is more performant under the hood.

With superior loading, haptics, and performance, PS5 is the best place to play Scarlet Nexus. No additional £1000+ hardware required.


But I do. That's like saying IF you have a TV that supports 4K, otherwise the PS5 and XSX are overengineered 🤡


I'm playing on a TV that supports VRR and have the best experience possible, sucks to be you I guess. Andrew Goosen and Jason Ronald are the real geniuses in the end. Poor Cerny, he may have better luck next time :messenger_crying:



Just clowning around lol
 
Last edited:

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
10,429
23,734
815
Nope, both versions have drops and only the Xbox version supports VRR, so it's the only version that can offer a perfect experience. :messenger_beaming:

Sorry to rain on your parade
Well VRR just syncs display down to match performance drops. Doesn’t help input latency fluctuations or game logic stalls underneath it all. Wallpapering over the cracks so to speak.

So it shall be written, so it shall be done.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Riky

JackMcGunns

Member
Nov 26, 2018
751
1,374
360
Well VRR just syncs display down to match performance drops. Doesn’t help input latency fluctuations or game logic stalls underneath it all. Wallpapering over the cracks so to speak.

So it shall be written, so it shall be done.


We're looking at a mean frame time of about 16.72ms, that's damn near perfect, you will not see a difference unless we're talking about 30fps which takes it up to 33ms. On the other hand, a frame drop to 56 can cause a slight stutter or tear, but with VRR it will be perfectly smooth and no added input delay. Nice try though.
 
Last edited:

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
10,429
23,734
815
We're looking at a mean frame time of about 16.72ms, that's damn near perfect, you will not see a difference unless we're talking about 30fps which takes it up to 33ms. On the other hand, a frame drop to 56 can cause a slight stutter or tear, but with VRR it will be perfectly smooth and no added input delay. Nice try though.
Perceptually. But basic facts don’t change.
 

Kholinar

Banned
Nov 9, 2020
448
1,364
365
But I do. That's like saying IF you have a TV that supports 4K, otherwise the PS5 and XSX are overengineered 🤡


I'm playing on a TV that supports VRR and have the best experience possible, sucks to be you I guess. Andrew Goosen and Jason Ronald are the real geniuses in the end. Poor Cerny, he may have better luck next time :messenger_crying:



Just clowning around lol
Except a large chunk of people have 4K TVs already, enough so that it necessitated the creation of the Pro and X consoles. 4K TVs run expressly cheap nowadays, whilst a VRR-ready TV is gonna top out above £1000. I’m not sure that analogy equates, mate. Also, I’m not sure that Andrew Goosen and Jason Ronald are in the business of TV making. This thread is purely a comparative head-to-head between consoles, not TVs. Perhaps there’s a free HDMI 2.1 TV bundled in with the Series X or something?

You say you’re just ‘clowning around’ but you seem to be inordinately mad at me for some reason. The fact that PS5 is more performant isnt fabrication—it’s literally shown here by Digital Foundry. I hope you can reconcile with that instead of reverting to base tribalistic console warring instincts at the faintest hint of perceived disrespect against your plastic box. Warriors gotta war, I guess. 🤷‍♂️
 

HeisenbergFX4

Member
Dec 28, 2016
4,530
29,287
925
Some Beach
Except a large chunk of people have 4K TVs already, enough so that it necessitated the creation of the Pro and X consoles. 4K TVs run expressly cheap nowadays, whilst a VRR-ready TV is gonna top out above £1000. I’m not sure that analogy equates, mate. Also, I’m not sure that Andrew Goosen and Jason Ronald are in the business of TV making. This thread is purely a comparative head-to-head between consoles, not TVs. Perhaps there’s a free HDMI 2.1 TV bundled in with the Series X or something?

You say you’re just ‘clowning around’ but you seem to be inordinately mad at me for some reason. The fact that PS5 is more performant isnt fabrication—it’s literally shown here by Digital Foundry. I hope you can reconcile with that instead of reverting to base tribalistic console warring instincts at the faintest hint of perceived disrespect against your plastic box. Warriors gotta war, I guess. 🤷‍♂️

I totally get it, you have a PS5 and no display that supports VRR.

Just because you dont doesnt mean a huge chunk of gamers also do not.

Thing is yes the PS5 is performing better at under a 1% difference I totally admit that.

But many people have OLEDs and chances are if someone owns both consoles (like myself) might also own an OLED, a TV or a monitor that supports VRR.

If someone has a display that supports VRR and both consoles its a no brainer which one to pick.

If you dont have one of these displays and do own both consoles pick which platform you prefer.

Pretty simple stuff.
 
Jan 29, 2019
6,723
7,463
520
Thing is yes the PS5 is performing better at under a 1% difference I totally admit that.
The drops happen so rarely that it really does not matter one way or another. Like claiming a victor over this lost frame, the ability to use VRR to smooth it out or the minuscule resolution difference, etc. They're functionally the same, no matter how you splice and dice it.

That being said, from a purely technical point of view the PS5 has a more stable frame rate, the inclusion of VRR does not change that fact, the series X seems to drop its resolution a bit less too, it's also a fact that's part of the technical discussion. That being said, the only thing this analysis tells us in a concrete level (like many others) is that you should not base your choice on a platform's performance prowess when talking PS5 v.s. Series X.
 

Optimus Lime

Gold Member
Dec 24, 2010
1,369
2,591
1,035
If you have a TV capable of VRR, which a crippling majority of people do not. It also doesn’t change the fact that PS5 is more performant under the hood.

With superior loading, haptics, and performance, PS5 is the best place to play Scarlet Nexus. No additional £1000+ hardware required.
You're right. And, the last time I played a Playstation title, a group of Japanese men pulled up outside my house, knocked on the door, and two of them mowed my lawn while the last one offered me oral sex. It was amazing, they are truly the company of the discerning gamer.
 
Jan 29, 2019
6,723
7,463
520
You're right. And, the last time I played a Playstation title, a group of Japanese men pulled up outside my house, knocked on the door, and two of them mowed my lawn while the last one offered me oral sex. It was amazing, they are truly the company of the discerning gamer.
I wonder whwre you are going with this? is Phil better at blowjobs? I mean, that VRR touch at the end must be something.
 

Optimus Lime

Gold Member
Dec 24, 2010
1,369
2,591
1,035
I wonder whwre you are going with this? is Phil better at blowjobs? I mean, that VRR touch at the end must be something.
No, that's exactly where I'm going with this. I was 100% trying to suggest that Phil Spencer is better at giving blowjobs, I was just too shy to come right out and say it, so thanks for stepping in.
 
Jan 29, 2019
6,723
7,463
520
why no one mentions :

3D Audio?
Dualsense support?
Game file SIZE?
3D audio and Dualsense are good, but I doubt they are such differentiation factors, they are too subjective (it's not like the sound option in the xboxes was lacking tbh).. and many xbox fans will scream until they are blue in the face about their controllers too.

The game's file size mostly helps alleviate the storage situation on the PS5, I would not bring this up in console warring lists (at least not until we have the nvme drive option)
 

HeisenbergFX4

Member
Dec 28, 2016
4,530
29,287
925
Some Beach
The drops happen so rarely that it really does not matter one way or another. Like claiming a victor over this lost frame, the ability to use VRR to smooth it out or the minuscule resolution difference, etc. They're functionally the same, no matter how you splice and dice it.

That being said, from a purely technical point of view the PS5 has a more stable frame rate, the inclusion of VRR does not change that fact, the series X seems to drop its resolution a bit less too, it's also a fact that's part of the technical discussion. That being said, the only thing this analysis tells us in a concrete level (like many others) is that you should not base your choice on a platform's performance prowess when talking PS5 v.s. Series X.
And i love these machines are this close.

Anyone can play on their platform of choice and not feel like they are missing out on a clearly superior experience
 

Zambatoh

Member
Feb 1, 2014
1,493
436
660
Florida
I'm actually surprised these consoles aren't able to brute force the 4K.

On my computer I use an older 745 gtx and I'm able to achieve 720p at 30-40 fps with settings maxed out (including AF and mipmapping via ini tweak).

So if my old clunker can run this game, why can't the consoles run at 4K natively?

Mind you, I'm only asking out of curiosity, not to shit on the devs.
 

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
10,429
23,734
815
I'm actually surprised these consoles aren't able to brute force the 4K.

On my computer I use an older 745 gtx and I'm able to achieve 720p at 30-40 fps with settings maxed out (including AF and mipmapping via ini tweak).

So if my old clunker can run this game, why can't the consoles run at 4K natively?

Mind you, I'm only asking out of curiosity, not to shit on the devs.
Shit devs
 

Tchu-Espresso

likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Apr 14, 2006
4,740
1,615
1,700
Very close and in real gaming no one hardly notice, but there can be only one winner, PS5 the performance king of the gen its looking like.

Also I dont get DF's framerate counter, clearly closer to 50 than 60 on the graph, yet shows 56 fps....


The counter doesn’t update fast enough to keep up.
 
Jan 29, 2019
6,723
7,463
520
No, that's exactly where I'm going with this. I was 100% trying to suggest that Phil Spencer is better at giving blowjobs, I was just too shy to come right out and say it, so thanks for stepping in.
I'm happy I could help, and I was unsure about the blow job skills of Phil compared to random Japanese mens hired by Sony to please PS5 owners :p
And i love these machines are this close.

Anyone can play on their platform of choice and not feel like they are missing out on a clearly superior experience
I'm not sure how I feel about this technical performance tie, it's actually much much closer than I would have ever imagined and this means it's way too ambiguous for many to understand. Plus, it's a sign of technological stagnation, there is no killer feature that is so new and exciting that it's only on one platform, or the competing platform is so far behind on one specific aspect that it's unthinkable to have some specific games ported without serious compromises.

Mode 7 was such a thing, there was no way F-Zero or Mario Kart would have been done on other consoles back in the days (don't show me the Genesis F-Zero demo, it's not back in the days).

The N64 had filtered textures, low resolution, but it still had an edge in how it handled 3D in general.

The OG xbox had so much more memory that games like Splinter Cell had to have their levels re-designed when they were ported to the PS2. Its HDD also allowed for much faster load times also.

I'm not sure what such a feature would be these days, the SSD in the PS5 is about as close as it can get, R&C gives us a glimpse of what it could do, but I'd like to see a cross-platform game that pushes the I/O to see what the impact is (if any)... Because let's be honest, nobody will buy a console to save 1 to 3 seconds on loading games, or because the install size is smaller.
 
Jan 29, 2019
6,723
7,463
520
Very close and in real gaming no one hardly notice, but there can be only one winner, PS5 the performance king of the gen its looking like.

Also I dont get DF's framerate counter, clearly closer to 50 than 60 on the graph, yet shows 56 fps....


The frame rate shows the average # of frames over a given amount of time (the sample size depends on the software)... Look at the frame time to analyze single frame drops in details.
 
Jan 29, 2019
6,723
7,463
520
Not many surprises left in these comparisons any longer
I'm always surprised by the kind of post below, last time the one was supposed to catch up (the opposite happened), I will not rehash everything... Before these consoles the series x was supposed to obliterate the PS5 under any circumstances, then they were supposed to get tools... Now they decided (as a group, not every xbox gamer) to just fake it.

Lol, Xbox has been winning all the head to heads lately, now you get one game and it's suddenly the unparalleled king? :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Xbox has shown that it can handle higher resolutions than PS5 while maintaining a consistent framerate for most games, but of course there will be some exceptions, that's all the metric you need to determine hardware performance, it has been done this way for PC GPUs for decades.

Once we move to next-gen only, the gap will widen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truth Be Told

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
May 11, 2013
4,158
8,984
990
England
Nope, both versions have drops and only the Xbox version supports VRR, so it's the only version that can offer a perfect experience. :messenger_beaming:

Sorry to rain on your parade

Exactly this, just like every other game released so far. You get the best console experience if you invest in the right equipment, an Xbox Series X and a VRR TV.
 
Sep 22, 2020
636
993
355
I think it is definitely tweakable to a solid 60fps so a shame that it doesn't hold it.

I bought it on PC as it was really cheap and on a 2070s at 1440p I don't drop below 120fps with settings higher than the console versions (forced in the ini). I know that is a lot fewer pixels than 4k but it sounds like this drops to 1440p to get back to 60fps - if they met somewhere in the middle they could easily hold a solid 60fps on both machines.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Syphon Filter
Dec 10, 2020
1,840
4,009
380
Lol, Xbox has been winning all the head to heads lately, now you get one game and it's suddenly the unparalleled king? :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Xbox has shown that it can handle higher resolutions than PS5 while maintaining a consistent framerate for most games, but of course there will be some exceptions, that's all the metric you need to determine hardware performance, it has been done this way for PC GPUs for decades.

Once we move to next-gen only, the gap will widen.

How this can be a win for a console which has almost 2 TF advantage, higher CU's count, higher bandwidth and weaker console is on par or performs better??
 

clintar

Member
Sep 10, 2008
816
560
1,230
Utah, USA
How this can be a win for a console which has almost 2 TF advantage, higher CU's count, higher bandwidth and weaker console is on par or performs better??

Man, it's crazy that Cerny's 10TF monster can beat out a 12tf box.

I'd imagine this game can get some optimisations in place to get it to locked 60.
Ding Ding! It's always fun to think in these terms when making these comparisons. I think it's great because it means we have a pretty close playing field.
Actually, I wonder.. postulating on why this title does seem to get the edge on PS5 by a bit, it seems the trend is more compute heavy titles swing toward Series X, and games that lean less on compute and more on rasterization are helped on PS5. It's kinda like Cerny's rising tide lifts all boats had some merit.
Also, when (IF, Sony?) PS5 gets VRR, would that mean PS5 gets a pass when it has fps dips in the more compute heavy games from all these VRR guys since that negates any dips until it goes below VRR threshold?
 
Last edited: