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DF: Returnal: Housemarque Pushes PlayStation 5 HARD - With Spectacular Results

Jan 3, 2021
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They locked it at 30 fps but the average resolution was <1440p, so that means it wasn't stable 1440p 30fps. The reason I mentioned CU is because it scales better with resolution than sheer frequency and in order to properly utilise them without a lot of work that's what you do first. So XSX will have a resolution advantage, but that doesn't mean PS5 will be worse off, it will simply target something other than pixel count in order to max the hw. Again, this isn't an XSX > PS5 discussion. The differences are too small.


Right, which goes even further to prove my point. Tech demos show best case scenarios, they're a showcase. When you add production to the calculus it becomes even harder to hit higher than 1080p 60fps while still delivering on those 'next-gen bullet points'. That's why I say it's only games which can limit the workspace (linear/semi-linear) and have lots of engineers (AAAA) that will really push past 1080p 60 fps.

Next-gen open world games will simply not go past 1080p without major sacrifices to either the graphics, world, or framerate. Just look at how hard it is for even the AI-limited Cyberpunk to really do 1080p 60 fps + RT. Once devs start working on the worlds themselves, adding AI routines, making the worlds alive, etc. that will not be any easier of a task.



Tbh I don't understand why people are upset with 1080p, it's a perfectly fine resolution especially for console gaming which is further from the TV anyway.
dunno 1080p looks very blurry these days due to temporal anti aliasing
 

AnotherOne

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The amount of butthurt on both sides in this thread is ridiculous, on one side you got the xbox fanboys talking shit that will never play this game and see how the game looks for themselves and on other side sony fanboys talking shit about how some launch games like asscreed Valhalla perform better on ps5 like it's some proof that ps5 is more powerful than xsx.

It's pretty pathetic from both sides.

 

Fredrik

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Talking about bottlenecks is quite different than to say the ps5 hardware is already outdated, pushed to the extreme and so on. Eh
Nope it’s the same nonsense and both sides are just making themselves look dumber everytime they try to look smart as far I’m concerned.
 
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assurdum

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Nope it’s the same nonsense and both sides are just making themselves look dumber everytime they try to look smart as far I’m concerned.
No it's not. Console hardware has bottlenecks, on both sides. There is nothing wrong to presume stuff like this. Maybe even this game point out some bottlenecks. But obviously indeed to talk about it, we just read the whole hardware is limited, outdated, stupid nonsense about full RDNA2 marketing words and so on. Not sure how you can remotely compared the 2 argumentations to the same level. It's really specious.
 
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Markio128

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Oh imagine if this was an Xbox game... 1080p... Gaf would melt criticising the console...
It isn’t an xbox game though. And if it was, I’d own an Xbox instead of a Playstation. Have you lot run out of things to discuss in the game pass thread?
 

MonarchJT

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upscaled from 1080 at 50fps I suspect this game will be used as a yardstick
 
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Fredrik

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No it's not. Console hardware has bottlenecks, on both sides. Maybe even this game point out some bottlenecks. But obviously indeed to talk about it, it's just the whole hardware is limited, outdated and so on. Not sure how you can remotely compared the 2 argumentations to the same level. It's really specious.
Every hardware have limitations but nobody here is ever going to know what they actually are. I bet it’s barely even people with a hobby in coding and electronics discussing most of the time but we still have people pretending to be experts on software optimization and computer building.
 

Mr Moose

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upscaled from 1080 at 50fps I suspect this game will be used as a yardstick
It's not 50fps all the time so the people saying "1080p 50fps" are just being silly.
People should use the average fps/res when they can when talking about games performance (in this case it's mostly 60fps with some dips at times).
It's why I prefer VGTechs videos in many ways.
 
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Jan 3, 2021
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It's not 50fps all the time so the people saying "1080p 50fps" are just being silly.
People should use the average fps/res when they can when talking about games performance (in this case it's mostly 60fps with some dips at times).
It's why I prefer VGTechs videos in many ways.
well that's the problem with this generation

there's no actual "average res", and i'm hating it

for example, we know that Series S renders the valhalla at 720p-810p and 900p. But we don't know the average. Is it closer to dreadful 720p? Is it at least 810p? Or maybe it's 900p %60 of the time?

Even 900p looks awful compared to 1080p and i can't even imagine 720p. I checked out some gameplay videos and it looks like it's 760-800p most of time, not necessarily 720p, but does not look like 900p either

(now people will keep saying "dont obsess over resolution/graphics blah blah blah!!" cmon mate. it's freaking 720p. i can see how awkward and lastgen 720p looks like. even a casual user will buy a newgen console to play with higher graphics than the last gen)
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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And yet it still looks much better than anything on the XSX.
Whataboutism.

Enjoy the game if you want, but what does XSX have to do with the post you responded to? You do realize you look like a tool from the outside in? Not sure why some people like you are so defensive, especially about console wars, that weren't even brought up, until you did!
 

MonarchJT

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It's not 50fps all the time so the people saying "1080p 50fps" are just being silly.
People should use the average fps/res when they can when talking about games performance (in this case it's mostly 60fps with some dips at times).
It's why I prefer VGTechs videos in many ways.
however, being an exclusive where many have raised the hype it will be used as a yardstick for quite a while ..
 
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Tchu-Espresso

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Whataboutism.

Enjoy the game if you want, but what does XSX have to do with the post you responded to? You do realize you look like a tool from the outside in? Not sure why some people like you are so defensive, especially about console wars, that weren't even brought up, until you did!
Zzzz yeah you tell him
 
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GHG

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Whataboutism.

Enjoy the game if you want, but what does XSX have to do with the post you responded to? You do realize you look like a tool from the outside in? Not sure why some people like you are so defensive, especially about console wars, that weren't even brought up, until you did!

Sometimes the context is not in what is being said but rather who it is being said to.
 

Fredrik

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however, being an exclusive where many have raised the hype it will be used as a yardstick for quite a while ..
In what way would the result from Housemarque creating a game like this relate to another dev making another game? There will be literally no common ground at all besides that they’re both games.

Consoles need 3DMark benchmark tools, maybe this fighting will stop by then.
 

Mister Wolf

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Not sure why that is so hard for some to understand. It's not used the same way that we are used to VISUALLY see raytracing. It's used to speed up the rendering in this game, so not exactly a visual cue to pick up on. I personally think it was disingenuous to label it as 4K, 60 fps, w/ RT enabled. Because it's clearly not ticking any of those boxes. But I would love to play this game. I'm a sucker for these kinda things. But you're absolutely right.

Sure didn't take long for someone to muddy the word raytracing. Even other raytraced Playstation games like R&C and Spiderman not pulling this shit. I see now its going to end up like every other product. "Contains real GOLD."





*product contains 1% gold
 
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The game is too damned hard, the days of me getting most trophies and playing in the hardest difficulties are over I’m a married dude I can’t deal with this kind of shit I just want to beat the game and have fun not hate it. It’s not like I play everything on easy these days

but the game is too brutal, it doesn’t want to make me go back to it, they should allow tweak the difficulty
 

DonJuanSchlong

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Sure didn't take long for someone to muddy the word raytracing. Even other raytraced Playstation games like R&C and Spiderman not pulling this shit. I see now its going to end up like every other product. "Contains real GOLD."





*product contains 1% gold
Soon is the day where a developer is going to say the game has raytracing, which is only found in the main menu, or only in the audio. It's gonna be that less that 1% gold, and people are gonna run with the shit.
 

Mr Moose

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Sure didn't take long for someone to muddy the word raytracing. Even other raytraced Playstation games like R&C and Spiderman not pulling this shit. I see now its going to end up like every other product. "Contains real GOLD."





*product contains 1% gold
After checking in Housemarque, we got some answers: the PlayStation 5's RT hardware is used to accelerate global illumination queries, essentially speeding up a software-based system and not used for direct visual results. A similar system is used in Nvidia's RTXGI, so I'll be curious if this technology is repurposed in some way for Returnal - RTXGI is a part of Unreal Engine 4 now. Housemarque also shared that the hardware RT system in PlayStation 5 is also used to take the 3D audio in Returnal to the next level: audio environment queries are accelerated with hardware ray tracing support.


RT can be used for sound, not just visuals.

Soon is the day where a developer is going to say the game has raytracing, which is only found in the main menu, or only in the audio. It's gonna be that less that 1% gold, and people are gonna run with the shit.
What's wrong with using RT for audio? It would give more accurate results, wouldn't it?
 
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RT can be used for sound, not just visuals.


What's wrong with using RT for audio? It would give more accurate results, wouldn't it?

So, there's no visual difference for the similar system RTXGI that Alex referenced either? What?

 
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DonJuanSchlong

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RT can be used for sound, not just visuals.
No matter who releases the game, MS, Sony, Nintendo, etc. Would you be ok with a game releasing with raytracing, if it only includes RT audio? Imagine all the people praising a game for it's RT abilities, to end up realizing it's nothing they can even see. This is why it seems disingenuous.
 

Mr Moose

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No matter who releases the game, MS, Sony, Nintendo, etc. Would you be ok with a game releasing with raytracing, if it only includes RT audio? Imagine all the people praising a game for it's RT abilities, to end up realizing it's nothing they can even see. This is why it seems disingenuous.
RT audio is still RT. I would probably prefer it if they did, audio plays a big part in games.
As long as it's spelled out exactly what the RT is being used for and not a secret like "We use RT for some stuff... Won't tell you what though", who cares?
 

Skifi28

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No matter who releases the game, MS, Sony, Nintendo, etc. Would you be ok with a game releasing with raytracing, if it only includes RT audio? Imagine all the people praising a game for it's RT abilities, to end up realizing it's nothing they can even see. This is why it seems disingenuous.
"If there's RT I expect to see it darn it" That's an expectations issue. RT has many uses other than people drooling over shiny reflections. Even if the results are invisible to the player, does it matter to us, if it helped the team achieve their goal? In the end, the techniques a game employees and how they are named only matter to simpletons that only know the latest buzzwords. The only thing that matters is the end result.
 
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Tqaulity

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Damn this is exactly what I’m talking about and loathe!! A great game with great technology and great visuals comes out and we get 15 f**kin pages of folks focusing and arguing about 1080p like it really matters to the gaming experience. If nobody told you what the “internal” resolution was, nobody would notice anything but great smooth visuals. You guys are sick and are missing the point.

Nearly every game nowadays uses some kind of reconstruction technology for the resolution!! That includes Insomniac in Spider Man and Ratchet BTW. Without knowing the specific internal resolution, anyone want to argue about how the IQ in Rift Apart looks anything but stellar? How many pages will we get talking about how the internal res is sub-4K on that one?

Oh and for the PC lovers raving about DLSS everyday of the week...anyone care to remind folks how that “reconstruction” tech works? DLSS performance mode does what? Oh downsamples the image down to........1080p before reconstructing back to native. Oh right... but that’s the best thing since sliced bread even though many games need it to run decently with RT. Yuk to all you with 3080s playing your DL reconstructed 1080p games on “superior” hardware to get playable FPS 🤮.

This really sad and ridiculous...😔🧐
 
Mar 27, 2020
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Uncharted bunghole
There will always be compromises. Ratchet footage is at 30 fps, so it might be pretty close to native 4K.

There's one thing that's really excellent about Insomniac games and that's their temporal reconstruction techniques. I don't think anyone has to worry about Ratchet looking terrible due to it not being Native 4K.
 

Mister Wolf

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No matter who releases the game, MS, Sony, Nintendo, etc. Would you be ok with a game releasing with raytracing, if it only includes RT audio? Imagine all the people praising a game for it's RT abilities, to end up realizing it's nothing they can even see. This is why it seems disingenuous.

If they were going to use it like that I would much rather they use that extra performance to increase the resolution or framerate. At least give me the option to turn that shit off. If I was playing Returnal, I would gladly turn the "raytracing" off to get a higher native resolution.
 

DonJuanSchlong

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RT can be used for sound, not just visuals.


What's wrong with using RT for audio? It would give more accurate results, wouldn't it?
Nothing wrong with that at all. But I wouldn't put out a game, and say it's raytraced. (Especially if i don't explicitly mention that it's only the audio)

As you see several people have applauded the raytracing in this game, without realizing it's not what they think it is. Their eyes are lying to them, and that's because raytracing is a touted feature of the game.
 
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muteZX

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Exactly.

And then you see shitty posts like this and go...
Confused James Franco GIF

what did you expected from unreal engine with some quick "code" hot fixes .. in this case drop to 900p to get rock solid 60 fps .. pathetic !!

shame on UE, not on devs.
 

Lethal01

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He literally says in the video that he asked them and they said they use the RT hardware to accelerate GI queries. The developer of this game said this. There is no visual ray tracing in this game. They are just using the hardware for it to speed up their standard solution

IF they are doing it like RTXGI then there is indeed a visual difference, Raytracing does lead to a more accurate result in that case.
 

Loope

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This thread really went to shit, good lord. But I guess some people needed comforting after another home run from Sony.

This is clearly a reaction to Ratchet and Clank too, that game being the best looking game we’ve seen has really messed with people.
I think it will be fine. Now that we established on that "tech" thread where several people piled on VFXVeteran, because "best looking" is subjective and you shouldn't use objective metrics to compare graphics. Xbox fanboys just need to say: " no it isn't the best looking, the best looking game is this" and it's a circle, because neither of you can prove it either way.
 
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FrankWza

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I know how to stop this squabbling and unite the fanbases:

PC master race > consoles
That can’t happen because one console had to hitch onto the pc install base because it couldn’t stand alone so it made its service available everywhere. Always the little brother. The other routinely sells 100 million+ units.