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DF: Returnal: Housemarque Pushes PlayStation 5 HARD - With Spectacular Results

Warnen

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Gotta imagine this is the future of advertising, Every game will have at least a single ray traced butt hair so it can be tagged as having it, and 4k up scale is just 4k.

1440 with high fps and fake lighting please :messenger_beaming:
 

S0ULZB0URNE

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Gotta imagine this is the future of advertising, Every game will have at least a single ray traced butt hair so it can be tagged as having it, and 4k up scale is just 4k.

1440 with high fps and fake lighting please :messenger_beaming:
Yup

 
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Kappa

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People actually thought the consoles were going to run games at 4k with all the bells and whistles 🤔 not even a 3090 can do that, consoles warriors are delusional. Housemarque worked magic with the hardware though
 
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namekuseijin

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pixel hunters disappointed with a fast-paced shooter mostly in the dark with gorgeous raytraced neon particles effects

meanwhile, hyping up games from beginning of the millennium with hundreds of polygons sharper than old jagged saw lines in retro glorious 4K
 
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GhostOfTsu

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People actually thought the consoles were going to run games at 4k with all the bells and whistles 🤔 not even a 3090 can do that, consoles warriors are delusional. Housemarque worked magic with the hardware though
It's not just the console warriors. They have no games that pushes the envelope on their platforms so they're all here laughing while secretly hoping Jimmy throws them a port in 3 years so they can play this genre-defining magnum opus from Housemarque.

Sad.
 
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cyber69

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It's not just the console warriors. They have no games that pushes the envelope on their platforms so they're all here laughing while secretly hoping Jimmy throws them a port in 3 years so they can play this genre-defining magnum opus from Housemarque.

Sad.
I beg to differ. There are plenty of PC games that push my 3090 to its full potential. For example:

 
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supernova8

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Game looks like fun but the visuals are nothing close to what I would consider "spectacular".
 
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Heisenberg007

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Game looks like fun but the visuals are nothing close to what I would consider "spectacular".
That's true. it's no TLOU2, Horizon, or Ghost of Tsushima, but in full context, this a marvelous attempt by HouseMarque wh has never done anything like that before.

Imagine someone like DoubleFine production making a big AAA type, narrative-driven game on their first attempt on a new hardware that looks and plays as well as Returnal does. It's an achievement.
 
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Which it does


No, it doesnt use it in a way that changes the visuals. Alex says in the video they asked the actual developers of the game. They use the RT hardware in the console to accelerate the rasterized global ilumination. Returnal does NOT have ray tracing that is visually visible. It uses the RT hardware for traditional lightning. Its not lying to say that the game technically uses RT, its just that there no visual aspect to it. You're not seeing any RT effect of techniques in the game
 
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Panajev2001a

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Yeah, which is why I said I made the concession to the size/inexperience of the studio.

I think the game looks great, too, but I'm just not convinced it looks good enough to explain being only 1080p. The particles are obviously very impressive, and the lighting looks nice. Otoh, I think the environments are pretty basic, certainly no more complex than good stuff from last gen. Maybe my expectations are excessive, but personally I was expecting more from this gen that 2x the frame rate and lots of fancy particles.

My honest opinion is that in non-covid times, and with a more experienced team, you'd expect these consoles to do more like 1440p60 at this fidelity.

But I guess time will tell.
The studio does come from the old demo scene and they have always shined in pushing the hardware they were on so far, but yes time and size constraints as well as customising a general purpose engine like UE4 (where they replaced some systems, but it is different from something they would have normally built from the ground up optimised to what they wanted to deliver).

60 FPS, lots of post processing effects, particles, etc… as well as use of RT HW to accelerate their global illumination processing (still counts as as RT) is quite impressive. More time and more people and an engine they were not trying to master and customise at the same time (UE4 was an engine switch for the team) they could have pushed it al even further than the great result achieved so far.
 

muteZX

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The studio does come from the old demo scene and they have always shined in pushing the hardware they were on so far, but yes time and size constraints as well as customising a general purpose engine like UE4 (where they replaced some systems, but it is different from something they would have normally built from the ground up optimised to what they wanted to deliver).

60 FPS, lots of post processing effects, particles, etc… as well as use of RT HW to accelerate their global illumination processing (still counts as as RT) is quite impressive. More time and more people and an engine they were not trying to master and customise at the same time (UE4 was an engine switch for the team) they could have pushed it al even further than the great result achieved so far.

This is a true culprit. UE4 has /prolly/ nice and effective workflow, not so much with performance. I am quite sure that their own custom engine would do 1440/60 easily.
 

Panajev2001a

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No, it doesnt use it in a way that changes the visuals. Alex says in the video they asked the actual developers of the game. They use the RT hardware in the console to accelerate the rasterized global ilumination. Returnal does NOT have ray tracing that is visually visible. It uses the RT hardware for traditional lightning. Its not lying to say that the game technically uses RT, its just that there no visual aspect to it. You're not seeing any RT effect of techniques in the game

You are a bit stuck on definitions and the magic notion around purity of pure ray tracing vs rasterisation (which Pixar used without RT for many many years without people complaining about something they were missing necessarily).

There is a visual aspect to it which is the game was able at that image quality and framerate as well as scene rendering complexity they delivered a working GI solution at 60 FPS.
I just read this quote earlier in the morning and this discussion


 

Rea

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The studio does come from the old demo scene and they have always shined in pushing the hardware they were on so far, but yes time and size constraints as well as customising a general purpose engine like UE4 (where they replaced some systems, but it is different from something they would have normally built from the ground up optimised to what they wanted to deliver).

60 FPS, lots of post processing effects, particles, etc… as well as use of RT HW to accelerate their global illumination processing (still counts as as RT) is quite impressive. More time and more people and an engine they were not trying to master and customise at the same time (UE4 was an engine switch for the team) they could have pushed it al even further than the great result achieved so far.
Some particles are ray traced in real time with invisible light probes. These are not the same as what people believe " ray tracing ", there are many forms and techniques of ray tracing. They only finds techniques which are use by Nvidia and anything else is not ray traced and are called rasterization. 🤦‍♂️
 
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Apr 11, 2016
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Dev never said they use Rasterized GI, this is Alex assumption. There is no such thing as Rasterization GI.


He literally says in the video that he asked them and they said they use the RT hardware to accelerate GI queries. The developer of this game said this. There is no visual ray tracing in this game. They are just using the hardware for it to speed up their standard solution
 

Panajev2001a

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He literally says in the video that he asked them and they said they use the RT hardware to accelerate GI queries. The developer of this game said this. There is no visual ray tracing in this game. They are just using the hardware for it to speed up their standard solution
Or to make it behave more correctly, see the comment about their particles. This is just a purity / check boxing exercise now, is it ;)?
 
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Rea

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He literally says in the video that he asked them and they said they use the RT hardware to accelerate GI queries. The developer of this game said this. There is no visual ray tracing in this game. They are just using the hardware for it to speed up their standard solution


Listen to this, they never said Rasterizing GI. Their GI is customized but it is updated in real time, it is different from nvidia technique. But it is still ray tracing.
 
Apr 11, 2016
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Or to make it behave more correctly, see the comment about their particles. This is just a purity / check boxing exercise now, is it ;)?


A purity test ? What are we doing here ? The developer of the game says theres no visual RT and explains what they're using it for. Why is this an argument here ?


Listen to this, they never said Rasterizing GI. Their GI is customized but it is updated in real time, it is different from nvidia technique. But it is still ray tracing.

But you're not contradicting what i said. The guy says they're using it for their custom GI solution. That it. And when Alex asked them, they explained to him further what it means, that they're using the RT hardware to speed up the GI querries. There is no visual Ray Tracing in Returnal. There is usage of the RT hardware, but you do not get a visual payoff.
 
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Panajev2001a

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A purity test ? What are we doing here ? The developer of the game says theres no visual RT and explains what they're using it for. Why is this an argument here ?




But you're not contradicting what i said. The guy says they're using it for their custom GI solution. That it. And when Alex asked them, they explained to him further what it means, that they're using the RT hardware to speed up the GI querries. There is no visual Ray Tracing in Returnal. There is usage of the RT hardware, but you do not get a visual payoff.
So there is Raytracing used to improve speed and quality of the rendering. Period, you can continue with your purity test to tick the checkbox or not, but it is seriously detailing the thread. They mentioned GI and they mentioned particles rendering and audio.

You are strongly trying to make a point, not yet sure what it is or why.
 
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So there is Raytracing used to improve speed and quality of the rendering. Period, you can continue with your purity test to tick the checkbox or not, but it is seriously detailing the thread. They mentioned GI and they mentioned particles rendering and audio.

You are strongly trying to make a point, not yet sure what it is or why.

No, there is no ray tracing used. The hardware for it is used. Is english not your native language ? Is that why you cant seem to comprehend that there is no ray tracing in this game from a visual standpoint ? Are we at a point so early in the generation where the developer of a game tells you water is wet, but we're arguing how you think its not actually that wet ?
 

muteZX

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So there is Raytracing used to improve speed and quality of the rendering. Period, you can continue with your purity test to tick the checkbox or not, but it is seriously detailing the thread. They mentioned GI and they mentioned particles rendering and audio.

You are strongly trying to make a point, not yet sure what it is or why.

gfx raytracing = alteration of pixel colour value .. all you see on screen are pixels with some RGB parameters. RT is changing them and you as player should see these changes /in form of GI, in this case/. Very simplistic way to explain RT gfx effects.
 

Withnail

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Does the game support HDR? I haven’t seen anyone comment on this.

Edit: Apparently it does not support HDR. That is a simply astonishing decision in my eyes.

Yes it has HDR, not sure where you're getting your information from but it's wrong.
 

Panajev2001a

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No, there is no ray tracing used. The hardware for it is used. Is english not your native language ? Is that why you cant seem to comprehend that there is no ray tracing in this game from a visual standpoint ? Are we at a point so early in the generation where the developer of a game tells you water is wet, but we're arguing how you think its not actually that wet ?

Lol, keep on the aggressive path… still unclear on your motive/agenda here as you are taking this way way too hard.

You are stuck on arguing semantics with two flags one that says raytracing (oversimplified: as in color of pixels is purely calculated by shooting rays and intersecting them with the scene geometry, calculating absorption, reflection, and refraction and thus secondary rays, etc…) and the other rasterisation (oversimplified: geometry is projected on the virtual canvas and mapped to a grid and each fragment that makes the grid up is then shaded in pixel batches/quads).

I am not sure it is as a meaningful distinction as you are making it to be. RT HW is used and it helps make the game’s visual makeup and audio possible, performant, and more correct without it.

They are still using tricks but they are using the console’s capabilities to get the correctness they seek and the speed they need (you can read rasterisation based engines as a massive trick), but the payoff of doing things in a pure and correct non hacky way was not there for them.
 
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Lol, keep on the aggressive path… still unclear on your motive/agenda here as you are taking this way way too hard.



I am not sure it is as a meaningful distinction as you are making it to be. RT HW is used and it helps make the game’s visual makeup and audio possible, performant, and more correct without it.


Nice victim complex here. That you get called on for trying to spread incorrect info puts you on the attack huh ? How i have an agenda and im taking it hard.

You are not sure there is meaningful distinction between a game having ray tracing features on display and a game having none ? This is something that escapes you ? No, RT hardware is not being used to make the visual makeup more correct or possible. The whole idea is that the visual makeup has zero RT footprint on it. For the 100th time, they said the HARDWARE is used for traditional techniques. You do not see any ray tracing in this game nor are the visuals more correct, since there is no visual RT here.

Its wild. Sony fans will literally bitchslap the actual developer of said game if a single negative is perceived of them. Amazing
 
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Panajev2001a

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Nice victim complex here

I am not sure where you are taking this from, but am I a victim of what exactly? You calling me out on spreading false info by mounting up a straw man argument I did not make is an interesting take though.

Just re-read the rest of your post again and think on how it reads outside of your bubble before continuing on this tirade where the Sony warriors are hunting for anyone besmirching Sony even the devs of their own games. After that well, fill your boots. Now that we agree (I hope 😂, but one can never be sure) on what they are using the RT HW for, what is next? How does it matter? I am curious why you are so aggressively pushing this angle :).
 
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Fredrik

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Bro, making comments like the typical PCMR schtick that several in here are doing, like "weak hardware," "bottlenecked before they came out," etc., whether true or not, is every bit "console warring" and we all know it.

It's elitist cunt shit designed to antagonize console gamers, real talk. And my main platform is PC again, but I can spot the "talking down to" someone in here is known for and has a rep with.
Probably shouldn’t throw that stone in this glass house lol, it has been the same in every PS vs Xbox face off thread too since the dawn of time, everytime there is a difference in res or fps it’s always because of some imaginary hardware flaw or bottleneck or teraflop difference or whatever.

People need to chill, don’t be so defensive, just let the talk that trigger you pass by like a sour fart in the wind, nothing good will come from start interacting with it.

And the reality is those who actually know things from first hand coding experience on real PC or console games that truly push the hardware aren’t here talking. And in the end it’s coding, there are infinite ways to achieve similar results and nobody is sitting on the ultimate way to do it this early, or ever. Zero doubt, we will see tons of advancements in graphics and performance on consoles as well as PC going forward.
 

assurdum

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Nice victim complex here. That you get called on for trying to spread incorrect info puts you on the attack huh ? How i have an agenda and im taking it hard.

You are not sure there is meaningful distinction between a game having ray tracing features on display and a game having none ? This is something that escapes you ? No, RT hardware is not being used to make the visual makeup more correct or possible. The whole idea is that the visual makeup has zero RT footprint on it. For the 100th time, they said the HARDWARE is used for traditional techniques. You do not see any ray tracing in this game nor are the visuals more correct, since there is no visual RT here.

Its wild. Sony fans will literally bitchslap the actual developer of said game if a single negative is perceived of them. Amazing
The hell you are talking about now. Game uses raytracing. In the same thread on Resetera about DF analysis a developer explains for what it's uses and it specify also CBR probably it's not uses at all in the reconstruction:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/df...with-spectacular-results.418248/post-64031499
 
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sinnergy

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1080p that’s a bit rough , like Ryse which got slammed last gen for going for 900p.
 

kyoji

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do half you guys even have this game? i understand this a tech thread but dam just use your eyeballs, game looks really good on TV screen.
 
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MastaKiiLA

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Good video. Both Alex and John seemed to have high praise for the game. The one caveat being the resolution, but even in the video, what they were pointing out was crazy hard to see, even at 4k on a 55" screen, while sitting close. Probably a good choice, given the pace and setting of the game. It won't be noticed. Volumetric fog looks amazing.

Skimming this thread, it seems that in absence of DF to hate on, gamers will turn on each other. There's never a shortage of hate, it seems. LOL!
 
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Md Ray

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The particles effects and the combat look amazing. The rest is average. It being 1080p is disappointing as well. The TAA upscaling and checkerboarding will always cause image quality issues when used.
Question: when talking about DLSS, why don't people focus on the base internal resolution it reconstructs from? DLSS in "Performance mode" at 4K renders at 1080p. Why don't I see you or others being disappointed that DLSS's perf mode renders at 1080p? Of course, there's "Quality mode" that looks betters, renders at a higher 1440p res, and obviously incurs a perf hit.

And at times when "quality mode" can't get you up to your target frame rate, you have to drop it down to "performance mode" and be ok with worse image quality because you're getting smoother perf in return.
 
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Good video. Both Alex and John seemed to have high praise for the game. The one caveat being the resolution, but even in the video, what they were pointing out was crazy hard to see, even at 4k on a 55" screen, while sitting close. Probably a good choice, given the pace and setting of the game. It won't be noticed. Volumetric fog looks amazing.

Skimming this thread, it seems that in absence of DF to hate on, gamers will turn on each other. There's never a shortage of hate, it seems. LOL!
Agreed. 1080p, 1440p, 4k. Honestly who gives a fuck. As long as the game is rock solid 30fps at the bare minimum then who really should care.

It's still sad to see threads like this with people at each other's throats over resolution. Some Xbox fans are also going ham on Twitter over this games res.

Imaging devoting THAT much time and energy to such a meaningless fucking thing. And you also see the same thing on YouTube. People creating videos urging you not to buy PS exclusives.
These people need physiological help of some sort.

I have a series S and I still enjoy Division 2 at 1080p. I don't NEED 4k. If the game is fun who cares what resolution it's running at?!
 
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Bernd Lauert

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Agreed. 1080p, 1440p, 4k. Honestly who gives a fuck. As long as the game is rock solid 30fps at the bare minimum then who really should care.

It's still sad to see threads like this with people at each other's throats over resolution. Some Xbox fans are also going ham on Twitter over this games res.

Imaging devoting THAT much time and energy to such a meaningless fucking thing. And you also see the same thing on YouTube. People creating videos urging you not to buy PS exclusives.
These people need physiological help of some sort.

I have a series S and I still enjoy Division 2 at 1080p. I don't NEED 4k. If the game is fun who cares what resolution it's running at?!
Imagine the scenes if Halo Infinite runs at 1080p on the XSX. The Sony boys would meme for months. So don't act like it's only one side doing this :messenger_winking: