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Drama Cringe DF | Outriders First Look: PS5 vs Xbox Series X/ Series S vs Xbox One X!

sncvsrtoip

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tbh, 1260p on next gen consoles is pretty trash. I think we need to take a good hard look at our hard-ons for 60 fps games because its clear that even with these fancy 8 core 16 thread CPUs, the GPUs simply cannot do native 4k 60 fps or even 1440p 60 fps in xsx's case.

I get that resolution isnt everything but when you start hitting 1260p, it starts to look really blurry on 4k screens. 1440p already looks soft as it is. I'd rather games try and hit 1800p at 30 fps with higher graphical fidelity. 30 fps shooters like Gears, Uncharted, Mass Effect and Halo felt great to play. You just need good motion blur and proper framepacing.
game is not looker for sure but can't say its not sharp, have to say I really like dynamic resolution, it works briliant here and in valhalla, much better than for example 1440p checkerobard in Deathstranding
 
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Mar 27, 2020
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Basically it's the ps5 that's winning the power war since it's rendering games at a solid 60 fps while Xbox needs vrr's help.

Developers could be using VRR as a crutch so they push higher settings on the XSX. That's always one possibility and they don't have that option on the PS5. Although not every developer will do this. Some will prioritize framerate over better visuals.
 
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Krisprolls

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Developers could be using VRR as a crutch so they push higher settings on the XSX. That's always one possibility and they don't have that option on the PS5. Although not every developer will do this. Some will prioritize framerate over better visuals.

That would be extremely dumb considering maybe 5 % of people have VRR and, once again, it kills your black levels on OLED (every LG OLED) so it's not even a good option for those who have it.
 
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abel empire

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Developers could be using VRR as a crutch so they push higher settings on the XSX. That's always one possibility and they don't have that option on the PS5. Although not every developer will do this. Some will prioritize framerate over better visuals.
The point isn't about developers it's about fanboys who where screaming 12 teraflops and end up chatting about tools and vrr. And devs don't target dropped frames they target 30 or 60 it's the hardware that's bad
 
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That would be extremely dumb considering maybe 5 % of people have VRR and, once again, it kills your black levels on OLED (every LG OLED) so it's not even a good option for those who have it.

It is dumb but some developers might not care about framerate as much if they have VRR available.

The point isn't about developers it's about fanboys who where screaming 12 teraflops and end up chatting about tools and vrr. And devs don't target dropped frames they target 30 or 60 it's the hardware that's bad

Yeah pretty much the 12TF console was supposed to destroy the 8TF one. It hasn't happened yet. The two systems are extremely close to each other. The only one that appears weak in comparison is the XSS.

It's curious how the XSXs features are supposed to give it a massive performance boost later on. I've personally never seen anything like that happen in any generation. It's why I'm doubtful that developers can just flip a switch for a massive performance boost. Same goes for the PS5.
 

ethomaz

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But it's NOT available to 95 % of their customers...
He is just saying some developers will take the easy and cheap path and just rely on VRR instead of optimize the game.

It is not a new thing the biggest AAA title last year was released with little to no optimization and shocking no QA.

Beta tested in the future by gamers lol

PS. It is a very know issue with PC developers too... they make the game with several options and let players brute force buying new hardware... so they don’t need to take time abs money to optimize their games... in very common cases the mod community ends fixing and optimizing the game.
 
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abel empire

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It is dumb but some developers might not care about framerate as much if they have VRR available.



Yeah pretty much the 12TF console was supposed to destroy the 8TF one. It hasn't happened yet. The two systems are extremely close to each other. The only one that appears weak in comparison is the XSS.

It's curious how the XSXs features are supposed to give it a massive performance boost later on. I've personally never seen anything like that happen in any generation. It's why I'm doubtful that developers can just flip a switch for a massive performance boost. Same goes for the PS5.
There are no features that are gonna make series x perform better than ps5 for gods sake we've heard this shit every generation... lastgen fanboys and microsofts kept talking about dx12 closing the gap to PS4 and it nevertheless happened xbone always got beat by PS4 and it's the same story over and over again now they are claiming dx12 and rdna tools are going to beat ps5...
🤡🤡🤡 when are people going to stop clowning...

The series x even performs worse + vrr in some games even when using the same resolutions and settings as ps5. The narrative of 12 tflops has died and now it's tools.. if ps5 is outperforming series x today on this crossgen games with unoptimised code what do you think will happen when nextgen games start coming out fully utilising nextgen hardware the series x might even be more worse.
 
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I don't think that the way this shot was captured is the issue. If you look at the DF video and compare the scene starting at 5:04, you can pause at any point in time and compare the texture details - it is not one cherry picked shot. Even in the youtube compressed version, you can see that the ground texture and the texture of the person on the right have a lot less detail. The ground texture is a blurry mess and the weapon holster has basically no texture left.

It appears to not apply to all surfaces though, as the person on the left is mostly fine. My guess would be low AF filtering or SFS using an incorrect mip level.

Edit:
Comparison shot from the scene at 5:04 (you can use the key 1=PS5, 2=XSX to switch between the platforms):
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/FEEM1NNU
I've seen a few other people on AF point this out too; looks like if it's present, it is on ground textures as character textures are mostly fine. I doubt it's SFS because I don't think any games are leveraging SFS yet, so it's probably low AF filitering.

Sampler feedback isn't new, it seems just marketed as new it's been used since "rage" on xbox 360, it's already been used in lots of open world games and unreal engine 4 supports it so it could also be in use in outriders... its not some specific series x thing it's on almost all everything. It's just virtual texturing or partial resident textures.. nothing new same as vrs.

These are just shortcuts/ procedural tools to minimise problems they don't solve much of the problem as people think.

Sampler Feedback isn't new but Sampler Feedback Streaming, and particularly the custom mip-blending hardware in Series system GPUs to support it, is. The degree of flexibility for SFS is also increased somewhat IIRC over SF.
 
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jroc74

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But the question in that case is what resolution would the ps5 be with drops to 55fps? Definitely not what it currently is because its 60fps.
See, things like this will always get dismissed.

If the XSX goes down to PS5 res, or the PS5 goes up to XSX res......and they run identical.....where's the advantage?

This is why once again, parity always makes the PS5 look better in comparison. It wasnt supposed to be the case.
 

huraga

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There are no features that are gonna make series x perform better than ps5 for gods sake we've heard this shit every generation... lastgen fanboys and microsofts kept talking about dx12 closing the gap to PS4 and it nevertheless happened xbone always got beat by PS4 and it's the same story over and over again now they are claiming dx12 and rdna tools are going to beat ps5...
🤡🤡🤡 when are people going to stop clowning...

The series x even performs worse + vrr in some games even when using the same resolutions and settings as ps5. The narrative of 12 tflops has died and now it's tools.. if ps5 is outperforming series x today on this crossgen games with unoptimised code what do you think will happen when nextgen games start coming out fully utilising nextgen hardware the series x might even be more worse.
Yes there are, more CU and more bandwidth even if you don't like to hear it. And this is beginning to be noticed in the latest titles by moving them to a higher resolution.

If the PS5 could move them to the same resolution with the same fluidity as Xbox then it would not have limited it as in the case of Hitman 3 and Outriders. There is no point limiting and locking to 60fps and wasting the power of the console.

Having 60fps is very good but nobody is able to tell the difference between 55 and 60 and less with VRR.

I think the reason Series X performs better at higher resolutions is the higher bandwidth.
 
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jroc74

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Yes there are, more CU and more bandwidth even if you don't like to hear it. And this is beginning to be noticed in the latest titles by moving them to a higher resolution.

If the PS5 could move them to the same resolution with the same fluidity as Xbox then it would not have limited it as in the case of Hitman 3 and Outriders. There is no point limiting and locking to 60fps and wasting the power of the console.

Having 60fps is very good but nobody is able to tell the difference between 55 and 60 and less with VRR.

I think the reason Series X performs better at higher resolutions is the higher bandwidth.

Going up in res at the expense of fps is literally a form of wasting power. Or rather focusing more on one aspect. Its not performing better at a higher res......and we dont even know because they are not at the same max and low res....

..............If everything was better/perfect for the XSX, wouldnt it be running at better/more stable 60fps and a higher res..........?

So......some of you really mean to tell us that if you could have better performance at a lower res, you wouldnt take it? We not talking about 1080p....

I think many here forget the pre launch, speculation chatter about how the XSX was gonna be native, true 4K/60fps and the PS5 was gonna be something less on all fronts. 1440p, 30 or 60fps.

Did many ppl just come to this forum Nov 2020?
 
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RoboFu

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It’s weird that some these games go for higher res and dropping 5 FPS on XsX.
I wonder or they think it’s not that noticeable to most people or they are waiting for an update to push the performance that little bit more?
 
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huraga

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Going up in res at the expense of fps is literally a form of wasting power. Or rather focusing more on one aspect. Its not performing better at a higher res......and we dont even know because they are not at the same max and low res....

..............If everything was better/perfect for the XSX, wouldnt it be running at better/more stable 60fps and a higher res..........?

So......some of you really mean to tell us that if you could have better performance at a lower res, you wouldnt take it? We not talking about 1080p....

I think many here forget the pre launch, speculation chatter about how the XSX was gonna be native, true 4K/60fps and the PS5 was gonna be something less on all fronts. 1440p, 30 or 60fps.

Did many ppl just come to this forum Nov 2020?
We are talking about lose a couple frames on average, it´s really nothing, nobody can noticed this, and you can noticed a couple hundred of pixels more in your 4k screen if you are at 2-3 metres.

I think people are too obsessed with frames and in the past generation no one was worried about this.
 

jroc74

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We are talking about lose a couple frames on average, it´s really nothing, nobody can noticed this, and you can noticed a couple hundred of pixels more in your 4k screen if you are at 2-3 metres.

I think people are too obsessed with frames and in the past generation no one was worried about this.
Every gen ppl want higher fps, its just that reality hits home early.

This gen is no different. This time, its actually possible without sacrificing visuals too much like previous gens. Again, we not talking about 1080p here. For some reason this is being fought against by some for some some wild reason.

This is nothing new. What is new is now some ppl arent on the native 4K train as the end all be all for the XSX like they were before these consoles launched.

Again, reality hit.
 
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Developers could be using VRR as a crutch so they push higher settings on the XSX. That's always one possibility and they don't have that option on the PS5. Although not every developer will do this. Some will prioritize framerate over better visuals.
Well, it's nice for them, but I don't have VRR on my TV, so if that was the reason, it's pretty bad because it's completely irrelevant to what I figure is well above 95% of the people who are likely to get their games.
 
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We are talking about lose a couple frames on average, it´s really nothing, nobody can noticed this, and you can noticed a couple hundred of pixels more in your 4k screen if you are at 2-3 metres.

I think people are too obsessed with frames and in the past generation no one was worried about this.
I completely agree with this. Caling a 'win' on either side with that kind of difference only does a disservice, we are pressty far from 30 vs sub 30fos with lower resolution... I mean, 1440p (or around) 60 locked vs 60 with dips in the 50s are technicalities (interesting to those so inclined).
 

Shelookdlvl18

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I completely agree with this. Caling a 'win' on either side with that kind of difference only does a disservice, we are pressty far from 30 vs sub 30fos with lower resolution... I mean, 1440p (or around) 60 locked vs 60 with dips in the 50s are technicalities (interesting to those so inclined).
Excluding wild fluctuations of course, I agree. A few dropped frames on a 60 fps game vs a 30 fps game aren't the same. Yet that's the narrative repeatedly driven home here at times.

I'm not tech savvy enough to really get out in the weeds as to what which effect is better on which box. I say it's lighting, but as pointed out by others, it might be something with the hdr.

I can only go off what I can see here. Based on the pics that have been posted here, I definitely know which version I'd rather play. I can't really understand how anyone can look at the comparison shots above, and then argue that the PS5 version is on par.... much less better.

To each their own I guess.
 

Heisenberg007

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Yes there are, more CU and more bandwidth even if you don't like to hear it. And this is beginning to be noticed in the latest titles by moving them to a higher resolution.

If the PS5 could move them to the same resolution with the same fluidity as Xbox then it would not have limited it as in the case of Hitman 3 and Outriders. There is no point limiting and locking to 60fps and wasting the power of the console.

Having 60fps is very good but nobody is able to tell the difference between 55 and 60 and less with VRR.

I think the reason Series X performs better at higher resolutions is the higher bandwidth.
I can bet my donkey's ass that during normal gameplay more people will notice a frame rate drop to 55 than dynamic resolution scaling from 1440p to 1288p.
 

abel empire

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Been licking windows, matey?
I've seen a few other people on AF point this out too; looks like if it's present, it is on ground textures as character textures are mostly fine. I doubt it's SFS because I don't think any games are leveraging SFS yet, so it's probably low AF filitering.



Sampler Feedback isn't new but Sampler Feedback Streaming, and particularly the custom mip-blending hardware in Series system GPUs to support it, is. The degree of flexibility for SFS is also increased somewhat IIRC over SF.
Whatever you call it. It's still virtual texturing there's nothing new here it's had multiple marketing names for years, it's not going to make anything look better it just stops the game from crashing when running out of texture memory it's only made simpler in every iteration.
 

abel empire

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Yes there are, more CU and more bandwidth even if you don't like to hear it. And this is beginning to be noticed in the latest titles by moving them to a higher resolution.

If the PS5 could move them to the same resolution with the same fluidity as Xbox then it would not have limited it as in the case of Hitman 3 and Outriders. There is no point limiting and locking to 60fps and wasting the power of the console.

Having 60fps is very good but nobody is able to tell the difference between 55 and 60 and less with VRR.

I think the reason Series X performs better at higher resolutions is the higher bandwidth.
What!!! The game is reconstructed in both consoles to reach 4k 1800p on ps5 and 2000p on series x none of the consoles isn't running it full 4k and series x can't hold 60 fps... texture filtering is higher on ps5 aswell and digital foundry couldn't notice the pixel count until they zoomed the footage and counted on moving objects like bullet casings, this shows you can't tell resolutions but you can easily tell frame drops. Vrr is a software fix it doesn't fix the fact that series x cu's and high bandwidth couldnt beat ps5... infact it's a bigger shame to series x that ps5 holds 60 without even using vrr.

Ps5 is doing things without vaseline and Xbox seems to need all the Vaseline. Vrr, dev optimisation tools everything to close the gap to ps5. So what went wrong with all the propaganda about 12 teraflops. Seems it was a lot of hot air.
 

Shmunter

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What!!! The game is reconstructed in both consoles to reach 4k 1800p on ps5 and 2000p on series x none of the consoles isn't running it full 4k and series x can't hold 60 fps... texture filtering is higher on ps5 aswell and digital foundry couldn't notice the pixel count until they zoomed the footage and counted on moving objects like bullet casings, this shows you can't tell resolutions but you can easily tell frame drops. Vrr is a software fix it doesn't fix the fact that series x cu's and high bandwidth couldnt beat ps5... infact it's a bigger shame to series x that ps5 holds 60 without even using vrr.

Ps5 is doing things without vaseline and Xbox seems to need all the Vaseline. Vrr, dev optimisation tools everything to close the gap to ps5. So what went wrong with all the propaganda about 12 teraflops. Seems it was a lot of hot air.
PS5 likely even carries a revision of hardware to aid reconstruction that was present in PS4 pro, allowing it to reconstruct from a lower base while still achieving similar result. E.g. a stencil buffer.

Reconstructing from a lower base on XsX may be more costly or less precise.
 
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Riky

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We are talking about lose a couple frames on average, it´s really nothing, nobody can noticed this, and you can noticed a couple hundred of pixels more in your 4k screen if you are at 2-3 metres.

I think people are too obsessed with frames and in the past generation no one was worried about this.

Developers don't just decide to suddenly start degrading resolution down to 1800p max for no reason, obviously in all their tests that's the resolution that a smaller GPU can handle, as it's always been on PC. Having only 36 compute units is a limiting factor that nothing can ever fix.
 
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skneogaf

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Im starting to think the xbox development kits are slightly more powerful than the actual xbox series x consoles as quite a lot of games need the settings adjusted to get to a more flat 60fps.

Could this be a thing?
 

Mr.ODST

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The point isn't about developers it's about fanboys who where screaming 12 teraflops and end up chatting about tools and vrr. And devs don't target dropped frames they target 30 or 60 it's the hardware that's bad
Not being funny but you’ve been absolutely fanboying the hell out of this conversation, Sony’s not going to hire you chill out
 
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Im starting to think the xbox development kits are slightly more powerful than the actual xbox series x consoles as quite a lot of games need the settings adjusted to get to a more flat 60fps.

Could this be a thing?
I was thinking the same thing. XSX devkits are actually more powerfull indeed. They have about 13.1TF.
 

abel empire

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PS5 likely even carries a revision of hardware to aid reconstruction that was present in PS4 pro, allowing it to reconstruct from a lower base while still achieving similar result. E.g. a stencil buffer.

Reconstructing from a lower base on XsX may be more costly or less precise.
That's could be true, could also be anything I don't really trust this crossgen games as a measure of benchmarking the consoles capabilities cause the performance is always fishy. Ps4 pro has more fps and settings on hitman 3 than series s and xbone, while ps5 has 1800p, nfs has full 4k 60 locked on ps5 while flactuating on everything else, outriders is another weird one.

We can assume that ps5 has reconstruction hardware similar to PS4 pro it could also be about faster clocks or the variable clocks are good at variable resolutions than static clocks, or maybe the bc on ps5 holds the res down on ps5 we've seen this happen on ps5 games and after a patch they seem to perform better like god of war.

It could be anything but where did all the talk about 12 teraflops and high bandwidth go... theyve shifted the narrative to tools, vrr, dx 12, rdna! What happened. The series x isn't only bottlenecked by software or optimisation it has hardware bottlenecks aswell it's just a fact of life cause it's been 80 percent of games now that ps5 is edging series x or similar the other 20% that ps5 fails are bc games to which we all know ps5 is bad at.
 

Mr.ODST

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That's could be true, could also be anything I don't really trust this crossgen games as a measure of benchmarking the consoles capabilities cause the performance is always fishy. Ps4 pro has more fps and settings on hitman 3 than series s and xbone, while ps5 has 1800p, nfs has full 4k 60 locked on ps5 while flactuating on everything else, outriders is another weird one.

We can assume that ps5 has reconstruction hardware similar to PS4 pro it could also be about faster clocks or the variable clocks are good at variable resolutions than static clocks, or maybe the bc on ps5 holds the res down on ps5 we've seen this happen on ps5 games and after a patch they seem to perform better like god of war.

It could be anything but where did all the talk about 12 teraflops and high bandwidth go... theyve shifted the narrative to tools, vrr, dx 12, rdna! What happened. The series x isn't only bottlenecked by software or optimisation it has hardware bottlenecks aswell it's just a fact of life cause it's been 80 percent of games now that ps5 is edging series x or similar the other 20% that ps5 fails are bc games to which we all know ps5 is bad at.
Where do all the talk of owning high spec PCs and PS5 only exclusives go?

consoles are still in early stages where games are still Bering made crossgen I’m leaving my thoughts for when Xbox One and PS4 are removed from the development cycles before judgement is made that’s only real way to test.
 
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abel empire

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Not being funny but you’ve been absolutely fanboying the hell out of this conversation, Sony’s not going to hire you chill out
Nobody is fanboying "Mr.Xbox" an obvious fanboy. I'm just telling it as it is. What happened to the biggest fanboying in the gaming industry about "12 teraflops, rdna 2000, high bandwidth, vrs, direct x 1000.. and all the buzzwords cause Xbox still can't get it up without boner pills like vrr..
 

abel empire

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Where do all the talk of owning high spec PCs and PS5 only exclusives go?

consoles are still in early stages where games are still Bering made crossgen I’m leaving my thoughts for when Xbox One and PS4 are removed from the development cycles before judgement is made that’s only real way to test.
Exactly this cross gen games don't tell the whole story
 

abel empire

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Developers don't just decide to suddenly start degrading resolution down to 1800p max for no reason, obviously in all their tests that's the resolution that a smaller GPU can handle, as it's always been on PC. Having only 36 compute units is a limiting factor that nothing can ever fix.
That some dilluional statement so how comes the series x can't handle 2000 p since it's dropping frames. In your own explanation it seems they have to drop the resolution to 1800p to hold that 60fps.
 
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M1chl

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Im starting to think the xbox development kits are slightly more powerful than the actual xbox series x consoles as quite a lot of games need the settings adjusted to get to a more flat 60fps.

Could this be a thing?
They have more memory or at least it was like that with X1 devkits, otherwise they are same, they don't record video and that kind of stuff, so devkit does not need better CPU for example.
 
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They have more memory or at least it was like that with X1 devkits, otherwise they are same, they don't record video and that kind of stuff, so devkit does not need better CPU for example.
XSX devkits have all CUs activated. 56 instead of 52 running at the same clocks. We actually know this from the github leak. It was the same for XBX devkits.
 
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ethomaz

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Am I the only person who comes into these threads just to watch people bicker over 2 versions of the game that look pretty much identical? We're splitting hairs here, guys.
Being pretty much identical is already laughable by itself due the marketing and fans dreams.
 
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Concern

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special olympics training GIF by South Park


Still plenty of people playing make believe engineers here as usual lol.
 

Genx3

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So they had to Drop the resolution and Physics from PS5 version just to maintain 60.
On XSX they have VRR so no need to drop anything as drops to 55FPS are negligible and unnoticeable with a VRR TV.
However imo, they should have a locked 60 FPS option for the tons of people without VRR TV's.
 
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ethomaz

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So they had to Drop the resolution and Physics from PS5 version just to maintain 60.
On XSX they have VRR so no need to drop anything as drops to 55FPS are negligible and unnoticeable with a VRR TV.
However imo, they should have a locked 60 FPS option for the tons of people without VRR TV's.
So worst framerate, dropped details, lower AF, and lower motion blur are not differences now?

PS5 has in this game the best IQ and performance... what more you want?

Seems like VRR is that magic tools that make up for lack of detail, AF, motion blur and framerate.
 
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huraga

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So worst framerate, dropped details, lower AF, and lower motion blur are not differences now?

PS5 has in this game the best IQ and performance... what more you want?

Seems like VRR is that magic tools that make up for lack of detail, AF, motion blur and framerate

PS5 has issues with the lighting/colour and also less LOD, there are pics in this same thread and you can check it. All of this with less resolution and the difference in frame rate is 3,2 fps on average, you can check this in VG Tech.

Get used to it because from now on it seems to me that the lower resolution on PS5 is going to be a trend.

Btw, did you check it? yes, again, lower resolution in PS5

 
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Mr.ODST

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PS5 has issues with the lighting/colour and also less LOD, there are pics in this same thread and you can check it. All of this with less resolution and the difference in frame rate is 3,2 fps on average, you can check this in VG Tech.

Get used to it because from now on it seems to me that the lower resolution on PS5 is going to be a trend.

Btw, did you check it? yes, again, lower resolution in PS5


You can see the resolution difference in that video, until we get no cross gen games and just native next gen versions thats when we can start making comparisons but the fact is still there that PS5 cant do 4K as natural which isnt a bad thing in some cases, I still think FF7 with up ressed textures and LoU2 look incredible and Demons Souls in 60fps still looks so good.

On the Xbox side Gears 5 looks incredible for a last gen game and Hivebusters is still the best looking game to date on next gen
 

huraga

Banned
Nov 19, 2020
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You can see the resolution difference in that video, until we get no cross gen games and just native next gen versions thats when we can start making comparisons but the fact is still there that PS5 cant do 4K as natural which isnt a bad thing in some cases, I still think FF7 with up ressed textures and LoU2 look incredible and Demons Souls in 60fps still looks so good.

On the Xbox side Gears 5 looks incredible for a last gen game and Hivebusters is still the best looking game to date on next gen
Yes, really to be a fair comparison we need to wait to get games with new engines. Current comparisons are basis in old engines made for the old gen.

In the meantime let ps5 fans enjoy thinking that PS5 has more power. In a short time many will be greatly disappointed.
 

Godfavor

Member
Jul 10, 2020
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Whatever you call it. It's still virtual texturing there's nothing new here it's had multiple marketing names for years, it's not going to make anything look better it just stops the game from crashing when running out of texture memory it's only made simpler in every iteration.


What's new with SFS is that it will further enchance the "streaming" aspect of SF as it will "remove" or "add" mips on the fly, which is directly related of how further the textured object is away from the player's view. So an object that is further away will only require a fraction of the tiled texture, thus saving RAM space and bandwidth.