Support NeoGAF

[sendit]

If after my long description on explaining graphics features, you still don't understand my thinking, then I don't know what to say really. Hold on to it I guess.

You mean picking and choosing which graphical feature to point out and how X game on PC is accomplishing Y feature at a high fidelity? Instead of looking at the overall visual quality being presented? You mean that way of thinking? If so than I agree.

 

[VFXVeteran]

You mean picking and choosing which graphical feature to point out and how X game on PC is accomplishing Y feature at a high fidelity? Instead of looking at the overall visual quality being presented? You mean that way of thinking? If so than I agree.

Developers go over technical facts. If that's not your thing, then by all means pass up on commenting about it.

 

[TheCrimsnFuckr]

Why doesn't DF let someone neutral do the playstation games?

I really don't see how Digital Foundry isn't neutral? Alex Battaglia is their PC guy, and he only plays on PC. And he accurately calls out problems with the PC port that should not be happening and yet very much are happening with the port

 

[sendit]

Developers go over technical facts. If that's not your thing, then by all means pass up on commenting about it.

I think you misunderstand. This is your thing; presenting technical facts to shade the obvious limitations of a closed box based on cost to build budget and available technology at the time. Only to compare it to the latest PC GPU/CPU. What you're presenting isn't some revolutionary idea.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I think you misunderstand. This is your thing; presenting technical facts to shade the obvious limitations of a closed box based on cost to build budget and available technology at the time.

I present technical facts because that's what goes on in the industry. All hardware has limitations and not just consoles.

What you're presenting isn't some revolutionary idea.

And yet, how many people actually understand the importance of these features are and how to make their own judgements based on it? It's certainly much more objective than eye-balling a game's visuals and overlooking several shortcuts.

 

[DonF]

Bullshit he didn't.

14:38, check the video

 

[SliChillax]

We wouldn't have any performance issue discussions if the game supported DLSS 2.0.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Wow. Alex grilled it.

 

[Craig of War]

Damn was gone to get it for sure on Steam but after this nah has so many problems a bad port.

 

[Malakhov]

Guess lll be waiting for patches and see how it goes. No demo for it either and the game is protected to try it otherwise

 

[Xaero Gravity]

It is bizzare eh? I just pray they aren't adults

Many of them are between 35 to 45 unfortunately.

 

[Senua]

We wouldn't have any performance issue discussions if the game supported DLSS 2.0.

Nah bullshit. The game hardly does 1080p 30fps on a 1060. Dlss is a nice bonus but it's not an auto fix, especially for cards that can't even use it. And those cards are by far the most popular out there.

 

[bender]

'Stunning' used three times in one para. Awful writing/sub editing.

Weirdly the other ex Gaffer Durante liked the port and said it was good on IGN. Who to believe?

Durante's technical knowledge surpasses anything DF offers.

I had the DF video on in the background so I wasn't paying the closest of attention, but it sounds like Durante helped Alex troubleshoot some issues and part of Alex's issues derived from incorrect hardware settings on his end (PCIe Bandwidth related). That's not excusing what seems like a shoddy port, but that's also not a great look for the PC enthusiast that DF employs. I wonder how his incorrect settings have effected other games he's analyzed.

 

[GlockSaint]

So the port is released almost at release price (50$ in my country), has terrible performance and the "ultra" settings look barely better than the pro. I mean come on don't artists usually downscale their original models and textures to fit the game? Why is there not much improvement there.
Even if there no improvement, why does it stutter and perform so poorly? I think this was released too soon, hopefully the devs save this port. We need sony to port more of these. I have the pro but 1440p 60fps is how i want my games.

 

[Valonquar]

Maybe they intentionally released a shit port as advertising for PS5

 

[brenobnfm]

Durante's technical knowledge surpasses anything DF offers.

I had the DF video on in the background so I wasn't paying the closest of attention, but it sounds like Durante helped Alex troubleshoot some issues and part of Alex's issues derived from incorrect hardware settings on his end (PCIe Bandwidth related). That's not excusing what seems like a shoddy port, but that's also not a great look for the PC enthusiast that DF employs. I wonder how his incorrect settings have effected other games he's analyzed.

Stop being pedantic, DF work is amazing and the issue Alex got was something very specific.

 

[longdi]

https://gamegpu.com/action-/-fps-/-tps/horizon-zero-dawn-test-gpu-cpu

1080ti still doing work!

Anyway Sony is being arrogant by throwing a dirty port to pcmr

 

[bender]

Stop being pedantic, DF work is amazing and the issue Alex got was something very specific.

It's hardly pedantic, but if you want to gloss over missteps by Alex, cheerlead away.

 

[TheKingKRoach]

Toxic fanboys and the console war.

The devs just want as many people to play their games as possible, but meanwhile the fanboys are all like '' NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, NO ONE ELSE CAN HAVE OUR TOYS ''.

It's really funny. Fanboys are quick to call other people "entitled" and "port-beggars", but they get into absolute meltdowns when a game is no longer a console exclusive. Like I saw nobody melt down when The Sims, Diablo 3, Crysis, or Undertale went to consoles.

 

[Golgo 13]

The game is sensitive to bandwidth.

You have to pre-compile shaders.

I think deep down this is running on some kind of PS4 emulator.

It's also a win for AMD GPU's.

your avatar is now oddly disturbing. Please revert to Rick Ross ASAP

 

[Siri]

I’m really hoping there aren’t going to be frame-time issues. That stuff drives me around the bend. I can’t believe that after all this time I still expect games to run well at launch.

 

[fersnake]

does anyone know if the game supports the DS4? i mean the button promps? Death Stranding has amazing control options where you can use an xbox, steam or dualshock controller with promps all native.

 

[sn0man]

It's hardly pedantic, but if you want to gloss over missteps by Alex, cheerlead away.

i take it as he is owning up to what we all experience on a PC. Setup and configuration due to hardware, software, or some combination.

Two things: 1. He could have redone the video and hid the issue, but instead illustrated that there is a problem 2.) he went back and tested another game on the engine to demonstrate that it is a title specific quirk

gloss going around

 

[sn0man]

Wow. Alex grilled it.

Almost like the extent of his biases are greatly exaggerated. I think he quite accurately skewered a poor port. Seriously sad for those that were looking forward to it. I presume that a patch will largely fix it but I’m concerned about frame pacing. Hopefully that gets fixed.

 

[bender]

Seriously!

GAF MS warriors: Alex hates Sony
Alex

i take it as he is owning up to what we all experience on a PC. Setup and configuration due to hardware, software, or some configuration.

Two things: 1. He could have redone the video and hid the issue, but instead illustrated that there is a problem 2.) he went back and tested another game on the engine to demonstrate that it is a title specific quirk

gloss going around

I'd have to know more about his testing methodology. It does bring into question prior tests he's done on that system prior to correcting his hardware configuration errors. On the one hand it good that he's open about the problems, on the other hand it calls into question his reliability as a tester. In a previous life, I ran a lab that did application testing for a hosting company so maybe I'm overly critical, but it will definitely have me looking at his results with a side eye going forward.

 

[sn0man]

I'd have to know more about his testing methodology. It does bring into question prior tests he's done on that system prior to correcting his hardware configuration errors. On the one hand it good that he's open about the problems, on the other hand it calls into question his reliability as a tester. In a previous life, I ran a lab that did application testing for a hosting company so maybe I'm overly critical, but it will definitely have me looking at his results with a side eye going forward.

You know. That’s fair. I just don’t think it’s worth tossing everything out wholesale. You said you aren’t so all good. If I remember correctly most of the PCI4.0 tests showed no differences. At least IIRC from a gamers nexus or hardware unboxed video on the new AMD GPUs that supported it.

 

[peronmls]

It's almost like criticizing China's CCP, even with evidence. They just attack the author like many zealots do, trying to seed some sort of narrative, when it could just be, consumers deserve something better. Imagine that, asking for better. The game will no doubt be patched, don't see an issue really. (watched ACG's review)

Author as in devs or as in the person who give up the code for a remaster?

 

[bender]

You know. That’s fair. I just don’t think it’s worth tossing everything out wholesale. You said you aren’t so all good. If I remember correctly most of the PCI4.0 tests showed no differences. At least IIRC from a gamers nexus or hardware unboxed video on the new AMD GPUs that supported it.

I'm a fan of DF's content. Beyond how he says Wallenstein, Alex doesn't bother me. I'm also not questioning that Horizon is a bad port, but something seems rotten in Denmark. I'd have probably rerun the test on a different system (or had a coworker do so) to verify the results. That probably isn't feasible in the journalism realm as getting the content up is important for clicks.

Anyway, my initial response was more about trusting Durante over Alex and not saying that Alex wasn't trustworthy.

 

[Moriah20]

'Stunning' used three times in one para. Awful writing/sub editing.

Weirdly the other ex Gaffer Durante liked the port and said it was good on IGN. Who to believe?

The IGN article mentions lower than expected performance, strange behavior with certain settings and generally states that the port needs more work to be truly good.

 

[Moriah20]

also i have to laugh at people trying to claim that Alex is biased or trying to hurt Sony. Fucking hilarious.
I am also under the impression that he re-ran all the benchmarks with the correct PCIE lane once he discovered the issue. Would be shoddy, if not - but DF is usually thorough so, I doubt he left in the 8x results beyond the direct comparison against 16x.

the port, even ignoring performance issues, seems shoddy at best. The facial animations were often horrible on PS4 as is but now they're further highlighted with the framerate difference in the world and animations. The foilage moving is honestly awful and feels like they probably shouldn't have bothered and left it static. The stutters (which is acknowledged by the devs) are gameflow destroying. The non functioning AF.... again, acknowledged by the devs... I honestly have no words. That's just hilarious.

 

[daninthemix]

I present technical facts because that's what goes on in the industry. All hardware has limitations and not just consoles.

And yet, how many people actually understand the importance of these features are and how to make their own judgements based on it? It's certainly much more objective than eye-balling a game's visuals and overlooking several shortcuts.

So this was a wash. Are future Sony ports now cancelled?

C'mon, time to spill.

 

[intheinbetween]

I still can't believe the defense force team here defending this. Just accept the fact Guerrilla, or the team behind this port, has done a shitty job, probably they have little to no experience porting to PC, and that's ok they still have time to patch it, but defending this is fanboyism at its best.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Will be giving this a shot tonight.

If it gives me cancer and salts the earth beneath my home, I will report back.

Otherwise I'm probably too busy killing robot dinosaurs.

 

[sn0man]

I'm a fan of DF's content. Beyond how he says Wallenstein, Alex doesn't bother me. I'm also not questioning that Horizon is a bad port, but something seems rotten in Denmark. I'd have probably rerun the test on a different system (or had a coworker do so) to verify the results. That probably isn't feasible in the journalism realm as getting the content up is important for clicks.

Anyway, my initial response was more about trusting Durante over Alex and not saying that Alex wasn't trustworthy.

I’m probably a little over sensitive about the anti DF mentality on here lately. I don’t have a era account and so I am always hopeful to talk with DF here if/when they show up. With what IMHO is overreacting by many here regarding bias at DF, I am afraid they won’t be around for quite a while.

Your statement about journalist test rigs is true too. I don’t think Alex has a decent intel rig so who knows if it is an AMD issue. Maybe after patch Richard will test and they’ll make a second video.

 

[bender]

I’m probably a little over sensitive about the anti DF mentality on here lately. I don’t have a era account and so I am always hopeful to talk with DF here if/when they show up. With what IMHO is overreacting by many here regarding bias at DF, I am afraid they won’t be around for quite a while.

Your statement about journalist test rigs is true too. I don’t think Alex has a decent intel rig so who knows if it is an AMD issue. Maybe after patch Richard will test and they’ll make a second video.

Yeah, the attitude towards John and Alex has been pretty disrespectful. I've lost any hopes of them interacting with the community. I don't see them sticking around era either, that place tends to be full of land mines as well. I just wish we could be nicer to one another.

 

[nowhat]

I just wish we could be nicer to one another.

 

[bender]

 

[SliChillax]

Nah bullshit. The game hardly does 1080p 30fps on a 1060. Dlss is a nice bonus but it's not an auto fix, especially for cards that can't even use it. And those cards are by far the most popular out there.

I keep forgetting its exlusive to RTX cards

 

[Endless Fluff]

Well, small Kojima Studios with a lot less budget does a better job than the renowned Guerrilla Games. Tells you everything you need to know.

Disappointing.

 

[GymWolf]

did they talk about the textures? if there is a "ps4 setting" and an high\ultra setting it means that ultra has better texture than console version??

 

[nowhat]

Well, small Kojima Studios with a lot less budget does a better job than the renowned Guerrilla Games. Tells you everything you need to know.

...that Guerrilla is busy working on the sequel and this port was handled by an outside studio?

KojiPro probably have time in their hands to handle the port, while Kojima is busy sniffing glue and going over american action movies for inspiration for his next game.

 

[Chun Swae]

All they did is basically piss off Sony hardcore and not even hardcore fans for no point .
If someone wanted to play a 3 or 4 year old game he can grab a ps4 for like a 100$ .
I hope it sells like shit so Sony stops porting their games to pc .
No offense I love my pc gaming . But either go all the way like MS did and that will give me zero reason to buy a PlayStation console . Or just stay like Nintendo .
Don’t do a half ass job with shorty port for a 3 years old game and expect people to bite .

And worse charge this much for it when it’s 10$ on PlayStation and no one is buying it anymore since it’s that old.

Yeah for some reason this whole move just seems like a huge loss to the playstation brand. Hopefully this test helps them realize porting to PC isn't worth it

 

[GHG]

Yeah for some reason this whole move just seems like a huge loss to the playstation brand. Hopefully this test helps them realize porting to PC isn't worth it

Nah this is bullshit.

There's a lot of money and value in porting some older exclusives to the PC but they just need to put some care into it and get it right.

 

[daninthemix]

All they did is basically piss off Sony hardcore and not even hardcore fans for no point .
If someone wanted to play a 3 or 4 year old game he can grab a ps4 for like a 100$ .
I hope it sells like shit so Sony stops porting their games to pc .
No offense I love my pc gaming . But either go all the way like MS did and that will give me zero reason to buy a PlayStation console . Or just stay like Nintendo .
Don’t do a half ass job with shorty port for a 3 years old game and expect people to bite .

And worse charge this much for it when it’s 10$ on PlayStation and no one is buying it anymore since it’s that old.

I play almost exclusively on PC but I agree - either go all in or don't bother. This seems so half-arsed.

 

[Endless Fluff]

...that Guerrilla is busy working on the sequel and this port was handled by an outside studio?

No, this port was handled by Guerrilla themselves.

 

[Zathalus]

If after my long description on explaining graphics features, you still don't understand my thinking, then I don't know what to say really. Hold on to it I guess.

Your thinking is flawed though. You can tart up a previous console version of a game for PC with higher resolution, higher frame-rate, better AF, better AA, better textures, better AO, sharper textures, better shadows and a few extra bell and whistles, but the game is not going to look better then a game primarily designed for a much more powerful console base spec.

I don't even have to go into technical matters to prove my point, cross generation comparisons between PC and newer console games prove my point for me.

Compare the PC version of Fallout 3 vs the PS4 version of Fallout 4, PC version of Morrowind vs the 360 version of Skyrim, PC version of Dragon Age 2 vs the PS4 version of Dragon Age Inquisition, PC version of Batman: Arkham Asylum vs PS4 version of Batman Arkham Knight, or finally the PC version of Assassins Creed 2 vs PS4 version of Assassins Creed Syndicate.

Sure, you can run all of the PC versions of those games at 4k with my previously mentioned enhancements but it won't stack up against the latter versions of the games. Because the newer versions of the game fundamentally target much more powerful hardware as the base.

Of course the same does not go for same console generation games vs PC. The PC version of Fallout 4, Skyrim, and Dragon Age Inquisition all look fundamentally better then the console versions. This goes without saying.

Your argument is that HZD on PC can have the same graphical features of HFW on PS5, and that is true. Both can be run at the same resolution, both can have the same AF setting, both can have the same AO quality. You then claim that because of these technical features HZD on PC will be similar in visual quality as HZ2 on PS5 which is simply untrue, due to the latter targeting a fundamentally much more powerful base target. My examples (and I can list way, way more) prove all of that.

You seem to believe that if one version of a game uses some of the same graphical features of another version of a different game they are then similar in visual quality. This is pretty ludicrous.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Never wanted to play this game before, seems like i still won't be playing it.

 

[Desaccorde]

No, this port was handled by Guerrilla themselves.

I wish it was the thing because Guerilla probably wouldn't let the game run like this. This port handled by Virtuos, which is stated in couple of reviews so far.

"Virtuous, the developer behind the port, on behalf of Guerrilla Games, has seemingly managed to release a DX12 game with only a modicum of pre-launch jitters. And we've not even had to drop the game down to DX11 in order for it to boot—I cannot understate how surprising that is. " Source

It's Singapore based studio that has couple of offices in Mainland China and worked on numerous projects like Uncharted 4 and original HZD. Their website also gives SSL error so will not share that here.

 

[Max_Po]

I expected Master Race showcasing 8k down sampled to 4k, 240 fps and laughing at us console peasants...

instead....

 

[martino]

I wish it was the thing because Guerilla probably wouldn't let the game run like this. This port handled by Virtuos, which is stated in couple of reviews so far.

"Virtuous, the developer behind the port, on behalf of Guerrilla Games, has seemingly managed to release a DX12 game with only a modicum of pre-launch jitters. And we've not even had to drop the game down to DX11 in order for it to boot—I cannot understate how surprising that is. " Source

It's Singapore based studio that has couple of offices in Mainland China and worked on numerous projects like Uncharted 4 and original HZD. Their website also gives SSL error so will not share that here.

it shows and it's also telling on sony strategy / pc.
VFXVeteran this is not going the way you claim with this context and data.