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[DF] Guardians of the Galaxy: PS5 vs Xbox Series X/S - A Great Game But 60FPS Comes At A Cost

FrankWza

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Right when it was shown by one of the other analysts that PS5 may have a performance upper hand. The timing...
Sam Heughan Starz GIF by Men in Kilts: A Roadtrip with Sam and Graham


Anything to take away from the topic.
 

rnlval

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So why not state 235w than? Why not just say 63% of what it's rated for? 372×63%=234.36. No where near gold, unlike your made up claims. This isn't how you rate PSU's btw, fyi.

Also Google search has defeated you again. Just like Google has proven non ECC to be faster than ECC, Google also doesn't state ps5 PSU being gold rated? Again, where are you getting this info from? There's a difference between being rated for a PSU standard, vs PSU's that are unrated that you can buy on eBay, alibaba, Amazon, etc. Before you misconstrue my words again, I'm not saying that Sony bought their PSU from there, but there is a big difference between being rated, and not being rated. Again, before you misconstrue my words again, this doesn't mean that unrated power supplies are bad, they just aren't rated according to PSU standards, like PC for instance.

Not sure why you keep coming for me lately? I just lay down the facts, you misconstrue them. Personally, I'd get tired of being proven wrong over and over again by me, if I were you. I come in peace though. No harm, no bad blood.
"80 Plus" program mainly targets end-users who couldn't be bothered testing the PSU.

If you have the time, you can test PSUs in accordance with the "80 Plus" program.

Since I own my own corporation legal entity, I can source any 3rd party PSU, perform the "80 Plus" test and apply for the "80 Plus" certification program.

80 Plus became mandatory in 2007 when Energy Star forced all companies that wanted to carry the logo of this specialized company, to comply with at least the basic 80 Plus certificate. It was at that point when manufacturers began to pass the 80 Plus standard within the Energy Star initiative. Since then, more than 2.000 power supplies have been 80 Plus certified.

One of the great blunders in recent years has been the appearance from China of totally false 80 Plus certified power supplies, for which there is no valid guarantee of efficiency. The problem is that it cannot be verified in any way that the 80 Plus certificate is real, since there is no such identifier, such as a QR code or special barcode, therefore, hacking the certificate is very easy.

Physics is applied to everybody and no one is special.


------------
Energy Star certificate is a program of the United States Environmental Protection Agency, which was created in 1992, with the idea of promoting energy efficiency in electronic products, helping to reduce the emission of gases from greenhouse effect of power plants.
 
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Vognerful

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I also didnt say you were wrong, merely that efficiency can be way broader than power usage. For instance a Tesla uses more power than a Mustang, which one is more efficient?

Also if that point was so trivial what does the term ENERGY efficient exist? To denote that the subject matter is efficient when energy is the FOCUS
Sorry if I misunderstood your previous comment.
 
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FrankWza

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Still no. I'm blind
I mean the post that shows an advantage to the ps5 in this game.
Ask yewles1 yewles1
Maybe he was referring to the areas where the PS stays stable and the x doesn’t? I don’t know, looks like they trade off to me.
I was referring to how the thread ended up away from the focus. Particularly the series s version and it’s very poor performance. Like the ghost runner thread also going down this path that makes no sense to the thread itself where the PS5 is the clear winner which O onQ123 is referring to I believe.
 

Md Ray

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I think the game is well optimized. The only thing the XSX/PS5 need is dynamic resolution engaged in 'performance mode' and a change in target resolution from 1080p to 1440p. The quarantine zone chapter will see res dip into 1080p along with frame rate drops, but after this chapter, the rest of the playthrough should run smoothly at 1440p with only small res changes, IMO. We've seen DRS working in 4K 'quality mode', so I don't get why they didn't enable in the perf mode too. XSS just needs a DRS and uncapped frame rate at the same 1080p res. Maybe they should consider this when patching the game with RT support.
 
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FranXico

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I think the game is well optimized
I'm not so sure. Is it really using realtime lighting everywhere? If the possibility of DRS with a higher target resolution is so evident, then maybe they were too conservative in settings precisely as a shortcut for optimization.

And I'm curious about this ray tracing patch, when was it announced?
 
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Lysandros

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I think the game is well optimized. The only thing the XSX/PS5 need is dynamic resolution engaged in 'performance mode' and a change in target resolution from 1080p to 1440p. The quarantine zone chapter will see res dip into 1080p along with frame rate drops, but after this chapter, the rest of the playthrough should run smoothly at 1440p with only small res changes, IMO. We've seen DRS working in 4K 'quality mode', so I don't get why they didn't enable in the perf mode too. XSS just needs a DRS and uncapped frame rate at the same 1080p res. Maybe they should consider this when patching the game with RT support.
But we already have quite a few dips into the 40's in fixed 1080P resolution, are you suggesting something like 900P-1440P with DRS? I don't think it will hit the upper bound that often.
 
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Md Ray

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I'm not so sure. Is it really using realtime lighting everywhere?
Alex seems to think so. I'll be honest, I'm no expert when it comes to spotting what graphical technique a game is using, especially lighting. :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Let's see what Michael has to say about it, NXGamer NXGamer is pretty spot on when it comes to this stuff. Hopefully, we get a tech analysis soon.
 
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Md Ray

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But we already have quite a few dips into the 40's in fixed 1080P resolution, are you suggesting something like 900P-1440P with DRS? I don't think it will hit the upper bound that often.
900p min would be too low I think. I'm suggesting they let the game run at higher than 1080p resolution, so in sections where there's enough GPU headroom left can look nice and sharp. I feel the GPUs are being underutilized by fixing the res at 1080p as the vast majority of the game doesn't seem to be as taxing as that first chapter where you see dips into 40s. IMO, they could do 1440p60, for the most part, judging by equivalent GPU perf at 1440p in the PC space. They can keep the lower bound at 75% of 1440p (so 1080p) at the cost of a few frame dips (same as now).
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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Jul 15, 2020
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"80 Plus" program mainly targets end-users who couldn't be bothered testing the PSU.

If you have the time, you can test PSUs in accordance with the "80 Plus" program.

Since I own my own corporation legal entity, I can source any 3rd party PSU, perform the "80 Plus" test and apply for the "80 Plus" certification program.

80 Plus became mandatory in 2007 when Energy Star forced all companies that wanted to carry the logo of this specialized company, to comply with at least the basic 80 Plus certificate. It was at that point when manufacturers began to pass the 80 Plus standard within the Energy Star initiative. Since then, more than 2.000 power supplies have been 80 Plus certified.

One of the great blunders in recent years has been the appearance from China of totally false 80 Plus certified power supplies, for which there is no valid guarantee of efficiency. The problem is that it cannot be verified in any way that the 80 Plus certificate is real, since there is no such identifier, such as a QR code or special barcode, therefore, hacking the certificate is very easy.

Physics is applied to everybody and no one is special.


------------
Energy Star certificate is a program of the United States Environmental Protection Agency, which was created in 1992, with the idea of promoting energy efficiency in electronic products, helping to reduce the emission of gases from greenhouse effect of power plants.
Thanks for the breakdown, didn't even know 80+ could be given out like that. I wasn't arguing against the certificate, more so that someone said Ps5 is 80+ gold, when it truly isn't. It doesn't have a real or fake certification, even if it was in the theoretical range.

It's like someone claiming they have a rare Nintendo woodgrain Gameboy, and they pull out this shit. All you can do is laugh, as Google results will never have this listed as an official "Nintendo Gameboy"





 
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Feb 27, 2013
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Hasn't Eidos had a bad history with console versions of their games for a long time? Deus Ex game on PS4 gen suffered from frame rate and frame pacing issues. So not surprised to see their games lacking the polish on that front in their newly released Guardians of The Galaxy game as well.
 

Tripolygon

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So why not state 235w than? Why not just say 63% of what it's rated for? 372×63%=234.36. No where near gold, unlike your made up claims. This isn't how you rate PSU's btw, fyi.
What the PSU is rated for =/= what the PSU and console are actually drawing. The bold is correct as the rating comes from how efficiently it can convert DC to AC without much power loss as heat. A PSU can be rated 372W but only draws and outputs what is needed. For example, If it is able to put out 180W from 200W draw, this is what determines efficiency which would be 90%.

The efficiency of PS5 PSU as measured by Hardware Busters falls in line with 80+ Gold. It is over specced as they concluded. It is not the first time Sony has done that. PS4 Pro 310W PSU rating, Xbox One X 245W.
It brings back the old claim that PS5 is designed to be "more efficient" than XSX by some people here. How can it be if it is using more power to produce same result?

It all comes down to what you are comparing.

PS5 SoC is smaller than XSX, costs less than XSX while outputting comparable performance so in that instance you can say it is "more" efficient than XSX. But that also comes at a cost of power efficiency, and power does not scale linearly with clock speed so it is "less" efficient in power/clock. I would say on average drawing ~30W more to reach comparable performance at less cost in silicon is "more" efficient. Cost is the most important bit here for the manufacturer.

The same holds true In terms of software development, it is easier to feed fewer faster cores than it is to parallelize work over many cores, again in that instance you can say it is more efficient as well. Let us use CPU for example and compare between 6 and 12 cores. 2x more cores should net you 2x the performance right? But it does not, because parallelism is very difficult. GPU has many thousands of cores and being able to feed all those cores efficiently is much more difficult.
 
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SlimySnake

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It brings back the old claim that PS5 is designed to be "more efficient" than XSX by some people here. How can it be if it is using more power to produce same result?
the more efficient claim was bs but efficiency can be defined in many ways. sony is offering similar performance in some games with a 20% smaller SOC. thats efficient. the ps5 has a cheaper cooling solution, has higher clocks and far more heat produced than the xsx. in this scenario, it's also more efficient. I remember Albert Panello himself dismising the bloomberg report that the PS5 cooling solution was only a few dollars because their vapor chamber solution was far more expensive.

To me, efficiency means fuck all. Is it cool that the AMD CPUs consume half the power of the 11th gen intels? Sure. Does it really matter when it most games they offer identical performance? Especially when the intel CPUs are $50-100 cheaper? Of course not. At the end of the day, both the ps5 and xsx are the same price and the xsx offers better performance in most games. It's great that sony was able to save a few bucks on the SoC and the cooling solution but why would I care when i paid $500 for it? Those savings are going into Jimbo's new Yacht full of scandanavian whores. Meanwhile Im stuck with a 10 tflops console that couldve been almost 14 tflops had they went with a wide and slowish 52 CU 2.0 ghz GPU that wouldve had the same power envelope as the 2.23 ghz 36 CU gpu.

Imagine almost 40% more performance for the same price point.
 
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All the next gen systems are too underpowered to do everything all at once. You can have 60fps, but IQ will suffer. You can have high IQ, but frame rate will suffer.

You can have RT reflections or shadows or GI or AO, but you have to choose one.

You can have RT and 60fps, but then resolution suffers and RT quality is toned down or noisy.
 
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All the next gen systems are too underpowered to do everything all at once. You can have 60fps, but IQ will suffer. You can have high IQ, but frame rate will suffer.

You can have RT reflections or shadows or GI or AO, but you have to choose one.

You can have RT and 60fps, but then resolution suffers and RT quality is toned down or noisy.
This is exactly what I'm talking about as a mildly disappointed ps5 owner. I understand there's only so much one can expect from a $500 machine. I still thought there was going to be more performance than what we actually have, owing to the nature of console optimization advantages, the IO, and how much better on paper they are from the Pro systems.
 

Panajev2001a

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This is exactly what I'm talking about as a mildly disappointed ps5 owner. I understand there's only so much one can expect from a $500 machine. I still thought there was going to be more performance than what we actually have, owing to the nature of console optimization advantages, the IO, and how much better on paper they are from the Pro systems.
The HW is the one for a machine that would not destroy the bank at $399, once that was announced the expectations should have been set. Still, the generation is young still :).
 

Thief1987

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All the next gen systems are too underpowered to do everything all at once. You can have 60fps, but IQ will suffer. You can have high IQ, but frame rate will suffer.

You can have RT reflections or shadows or GI or AO, but you have to choose one.

You can have RT and 60fps, but then resolution suffers and RT quality is toned down or noisy.
Thanks cap'n, but i think nobody here talking about doing everything at once. Main premise of this thread is that 4x drop of resolution for 2x of performance, unstable performance, is too severe, and it's actually a first game which work like that.
 
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The HW is the one for a machine that would not destroy the bank at $399, once that was announced the expectations should have been set. Still, the generation is young still :).
I'm going by specs more than price but you're right I should've had lower expectations. I fell for the youtubers and tech channels like RedGamingtech and nx gamer hype. Df actually had more realistic expectations. Point is only listened to what I wanted to hear. I saw that unreal 5 tech demo and thought if it can pull that off it should have no problem with cross gen games, even though I knew it was 1440/30fps.

I thought 10 tflops, rdna 2, ssd, vastly faster cpu etc would be able to run last gen engines at max settings and at least 1440p or more via upscaling at 60 fps. It's very rare to see that. Performance modes are always below max settings. Only games that have delivered on my expectations have been Demons souls, Ratchet, and Metro exodus next gen with that RT GI. Maybe Doom Eternal could be added to that list although it's got bad anisotropic filtering in RT mode.

Don't have a Series X but if I did I would add MSFS and Forza Horizon 5. Even though with FH5 you have to sacrifice framerate vs ultra, at least that game stands out graphically.

Don't get me wrong it's been great having games like GOW, last of us 2, death stranding, ghost at 60 fps. I've bought many "next gen upgrades" though and some are depressing. Control Ultimates RT mode sucks with 30 fps and bad input lag. Mortal Kombat 11 ps5 isn't even native 4k and the visuals don't look equal to PC. Avengers ps5 version looks great only at 30 fps. Greedfall only looks max settings in 30 fps mode. AC valhalla is a great looking game at about 1440p/60 but it's very soft image.

I'm wondering now how much worse will Forbidden West and Ragnarok be at 60 fps. Horizon footage has been 30 and same with God of War. Gt7 is clearly compromised as well based on footage we've seen.
 

Panajev2001a

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I'm going by specs more than price but you're right I should've had lower expectations. I fell for the youtubers and tech channels like RedGamingtech and nx gamer hype. Df actually had more realistic expectations. Point is only listened to what I wanted to hear. I saw that unreal 5 tech demo and thought if it can pull that off it should have no problem with cross gen games, even though I knew it was 1440/30fps.

I thought 10 tflops, rdna 2, ssd, vastly faster cpu etc would be able to run last gen engines at max settings and at least 1440p or more via upscaling at 60 fps. It's very rare to see that. Performance modes are always below max settings. Only games that have delivered on my expectations have been Demons souls, Ratchet, and Metro exodus next gen with that RT GI. Maybe Doom Eternal could be added to that list although it's got bad anisotropic filtering in RT mode.

Don't have a Series X but if I did I would add MSFS and Forza Horizon 5. Even though with FH5 you have to sacrifice framerate vs ultra, at least that game stands out graphically.

Don't get me wrong it's been great having games like GOW, last of us 2, death stranding, ghost at 60 fps. I've bought many "next gen upgrades" though and some are depressing. Control Ultimates RT mode sucks with 30 fps and bad input lag. Mortal Kombat 11 ps5 isn't even native 4k and the visuals don't look equal to PC. Avengers ps5 version looks great only at 30 fps. Greedfall only looks max settings in 30 fps mode. AC valhalla is a great looking game at about 1440p/60 but it's very soft image.

I'm wondering now how much worse will Forbidden West and Ragnarok be at 60 fps. Horizon footage has been 30 and same with God of War. Gt7 is clearly compromised as well based on footage we've seen.
I do not think NXGamer or others overhyped PS5, having both I think XSX’s API approach helped them get better support in cross generation software and BC titles (that is the advantage of higher level abstractions), but as you quoted once you see the native PS5 games you do notice quite a big boost in all areas you expected.
 
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Thanks for the breakdown, didn't even know 80+ could be given out like that. I wasn't arguing against the certificate, more so that someone said Ps5 is 80+ gold, when it truly isn't. It doesn't have a real or fake certification, even if it was in the theoretical range.

It's like someone claiming they have a rare Nintendo woodgrain Gameboy, and they pull out this shit. All you can do is laugh, as Google results will never have this listed as an official "Nintendo Gameboy"






That's one of the higher quality retro handhelds that you can get. I own two Anbernic devices myself and they are pretty great. However there are other brands of these devices that are just horrible. They usually have pretty poor screens, build quality and horrible face buttons. On the plus side they are pretty cheap compared to the Anbernic devices that I have.

Anyways sorry for the derail but I don't like it when people call these devices trash as some of them are very good.