• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

[DF] Guardians of the Galaxy: PS5 vs Xbox Series X/S - A Great Game But 60FPS Comes At A Cost

Mr Moose

Member
Sep 10, 2013
7,037
15,559
985
England
In one of my prior posts, in the video, the psu can deliver 235 watts MAXIMUM. Not volts, not amperage, but WATTAGE. I'd timestamp it if I could, but kinda busy ATM.
This?
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Dec 25, 2019
12,169
23,480
1,045
Prague, Czech Republic
Any power supply can provide its max watts. The efficiency indicates how much power is wasted for instance in your example 90% efficiency indicates if its drawing 1000W it can produce 900w. The power supply can still produce 1000w though it just needs to draw 1100w to do this.
1) Well not those indicated W by company, many PSU simply fails to deliver it's max PR rated output over longer period of time.
2) Absolutely correct, I am glad that people knows what they are saying with electronics : )
 

DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
3,986
10,344
785
This?
Watch the video. Ps5 will never, every, pull anywhere near 372 watts. There's a hard power limit on consoles. Neither consoles will.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr Moose

DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
3,986
10,344
785
Of course, it might be rated 372 W max but consoles shouldn't get near that.
That might be a fire hazard, and a lawsuit for Sony and Microsoft. Especially when you consider smokers, pet owners, dusty homes, or even arid areas of the world. On the other hand, they are power efficient as hell! You won't see this amount of power efficiency on PC.
 

Md Ray

Member
Nov 12, 2016
4,221
13,560
785
Where did I ever say it's not robust, or anything like that? Hmmm.... Making things up, yeah?
Am I?
Gold psu's for instance are about 90% efficient. But neither consoles are using robust PSU's like that.
So it can do rated 230 out of it's 372 that you claimed earlier?? Lol i guess that's "stellar" or even "gold" rated.... OK Jan... I'm Curious as to where you get your info from actually?
From Hardware Busters Aris's review, of course.

Look at the efficiency % on 230V:

  • Around 91% efficiency between 50W-100W (20% load)
  • A bit over 92% efficiency between 150W-200W (50% load)
  • Close to 90% efficiency at 350W (100% load)



Look at the 80+ Gold efficiency percentage numbers for 20%, 50%, 100% loads on 230V:



Here's the avg efficiency from the same article:

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dcmk7

TrackZ

Member
Nov 25, 2013
153
120
595
www.youtube.com
In my constant mental flip flopping between gaming on consoles vs. PC and wanting good enough performing consoles for the simplicity and access vs. the hassle factors of PC, this game concerns me. If we are already at 1080/60 meh'ish settings in this console generation...

I guess it's still better than prior gens were barely 1080/30 now being 60, but still.
 

DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
3,986
10,344
785
Am I?


From Hardware Busters Aris's review, of course.

Look at the efficiency % on 230V:

  • Around 91% efficient between 50W-100W (20% load)
  • A bit over 92% efficient between 150W-200W (50% load)
  • Close to 90% efficient at 350W (100% load)



Look at the 80+ Gold efficiency percentage numbers for 20%, 50%, 100% loads on 230V:



Here's the avg efficiency from the same article:

Again, where can I buy or find a ps5 that runs anywhere near 350 watts, or even 372 like you stated? You can't "gotcha" me, as you clearly haven't disputed any of my facts.


I know you like to pick and choose what to respond to, while making stuff up in the process. Let's pick apart your argument. Let's start off with this.


Please show me where it's labeled as a gold rated PSU.
I know it will not draw that much power, I mentioned its max output power because you said it will hit the power ceiling on the PSU much more frequently.

Are you sure about that? PS5's PSU is actually 80+ Gold on 230V.

No gold rating on Google at all. No receipts? No sources?
 

Md Ray

Member
Nov 12, 2016
4,221
13,560
785
Again, where can I buy or find a ps5 that runs anywhere near 350 watts, or even 372 like you stated? You can't "gotcha" me, as you clearly haven't disputed any of my facts.
Poor reading comprehension? When I stated 372W I was clearly talking about the PSU's max rated output, not that PS5 itself is going to run/draw that much power.
PS5's PSU is capable of 372W max power, and the console draws around 200-230W (55-62% load)
I know it will not draw that much power, I mentioned its max output power

Please show me where it's labeled as a gold rated PSU.
No gold rating on Google at all. No receipts? No sources?
The answer to that is literally in the post you responded to. Read it nice and slow, and you'll comprehend it, eventually.
 

DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
3,986
10,344
785
Poor reading comprehension? When I stated 372W I was clearly talking about the PSU's max rated output, not that PS5 itself is going to run/draw that much power.





The answer to that is literally in the post you responded to. Read it nice and slow, and you'll comprehend it, eventually.
So why not state 235w than? Why not just say 63% of what it's rated for? 372×63%=234.36. No where near gold, unlike your made up claims. This isn't how you rate PSU's btw, fyi.

Also Google search has defeated you again. Just like Google has proven non ECC to be faster than ECC, Google also doesn't state ps5 PSU being gold rated? Again, where are you getting this info from? There's a difference between being rated for a PSU standard, vs PSU's that are unrated that you can buy on eBay, alibaba, Amazon, etc. Before you misconstrue my words again, I'm not saying that Sony bought their PSU from there, but there is a big difference between being rated, and not being rated. Again, before you misconstrue my words again, this doesn't mean that unrated power supplies are bad, they just aren't rated according to PSU standards, like PC for instance.

Not sure why you keep coming for me lately? I just lay down the facts, you misconstrue them. Personally, I'd get tired of being proven wrong over and over again by me, if I were you. I come in peace though. No harm, no bad blood.
 

Lysandros

Member
Jul 28, 2020
1,167
4,126
370
Most funny is that he just confirmed that both consoles run like a 5700XT (10tf) in that game. Which is expected for PS5, but shouldn't it be a surprise for XSX (for him)?
Indeed. On the subject of PS5/5700 XT as a general info; at the max boost clock of 1905 MHz RX 5700 XT stands at 9.75 TF of compute power. Not only PS5's max compute throughput is ~5% higher, it also has ~17% higher pixel fillrate, rasterization throughput and cache bandwidth due to ~17% higher frequency. 5700 XT's main advantage is its dedicated 448 GB/s of bandwidth. Still, i would personally expect PS5 to outperform it by around ~5-10% in games 'if' decently used. There are other factors like the cache scrubbers which should also contribute to better data flow/higher CU saturation in PS5's side.
 
Last edited:

Bulletbrain

Member
Dec 12, 2020
406
520
290
But hes wrong about that. Equivalent PC GPUs perform well over 100 fps at 1080p even on ultra settings.
Where did you see the 5700xt performing over 100fps? I couldn't find a good video myself, but I did see a 5700 non xt paired with a Ryzen 3600 was dipping below 60 a fair bit in one video, in the first pink goo planet. Since the xt is about 10 percent better over the non xt, wouldn't you say the performance figures line up?
 

DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
3,986
10,344
785
Where did you see the 5700xt performing over 100fps? I couldn't find a good video myself, but I did see a 5700 non xt paired with a Ryzen 3600 was dipping below 60 a fair bit in one video, in the first pink goo planet. Since the xt is about 10 percent better over the non xt, wouldn't you say the performance figures line up?
I'm guessing he's talking about the Nvidia equivalent?



For instance, an Nvidia laptop with a mobile 3070 runs the game at 135fps @ 1080p at ultra graphics settings. A laptop running a mobile 3060 runs the game at 108fps @ ultra settings. Ymmv
 

Bulletbrain

Member
Dec 12, 2020
406
520
290
^But we already know the game favours NV architecture, yes? If trying to answer the question whether the PS5 or XSX is underperforming, we should look at the closest AMD card I feel. Shrug.
 

DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
3,986
10,344
785
^But we already know the game favours NV architecture, yes? If trying to answer the question whether the PS5 or XSX is underperforming, we should look at the closest AMD card I feel. Shrug.
Probably so, was just stating SlimySnake SlimySnake was probably talking about Nvidia hardware (I'm assuming).

I feel like this game, ghostrunner, and several other games are unoptimized in general, especially for consoles. Hopefully this gets sorted out soon, and isn't progressive throughout the years.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Feb 5, 2013
13,744
39,263
1,260
Where did you see the 5700xt performing over 100fps? I couldn't find a good video myself, but I did see a 5700 non xt paired with a Ryzen 3600 was dipping below 60 a fair bit in one video, in the first pink goo planet. Since the xt is about 10 percent better over the non xt, wouldn't you say the performance figures line up?
^But we already know the game favours NV architecture, yes? If trying to answer the question whether the PS5 or XSX is underperforming, we should look at the closest AMD card I feel. Shrug.
Nah I was wrong. I saw this website had the 5700xt at around 100 fps in their 1080p tests. (You have to search for a 5700 xt for it to show up) but it clearly seems to be wrong. Almost looks like a guestimate.


The other benchmarks i just googled show fps closer to 60 fps. That said, it is ultra presets while the consoles are clearly using ultra settings only in the native 4k 30 fps mode. there are downgrades in the 1080p mode. Also, the 6600xt is far closer to the PS5 (10.6 vs 10.2) than the 5700xt. The XSX is also far closer to the 6700xt (13.2 vs 12.1 tflops). Not sure why Alex is using a 9.6 tflops RDNA 1.0 5700xt to compare the xsx let alone the PS5 version when we have two perfectly valid RDNA 2.0 GPU for both consoles. 6600 xt is also very bandwidth starved (256 GBps) so we can also rule out the PS5's 448 GBps.

EDIT: The PS5 and XSX seem to be performing like a 7.1 tflops 5600xt. Or rather worse since this is an Ultra Preset test and its average FPS is still over 60 fps.

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: rnlval

Md Ray

Member
Nov 12, 2016
4,221
13,560
785
So why not state 235w than? Why not just say 63% of what it's rated for? 372×63%=234.36. No where near gold, unlike your made up claims. This isn't how you rate PSU's btw, fyi.

Also Google search has defeated you again. Just like Google has proven non ECC to be faster than ECC, Google also doesn't state ps5 PSU being gold rated? Again, where are you getting this info from? There's a difference between being rated for a PSU standard, vs PSU's that are unrated that you can buy on eBay, alibaba, Amazon, etc. Before you misconstrue my words again, I'm not saying that Sony bought their PSU from there, but there is a big difference between being rated, and not being rated. Again, before you misconstrue my words again, this doesn't mean that unrated power supplies are bad, they just aren't rated according to PSU standards, like PC for instance.

Not sure why you keep coming for me lately? I just lay down the facts, you misconstrue them. Personally, I'd get tired of being proven wrong over and over again by me, if I were you. I come in peace though. No harm, no bad blood.
Let's try this again.

Just take a long hard look at this chart from Aris's review:


Between 50W-100W (75W or 20% PSU load), you can see it's hitting around 91% efficiency. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 20% load is rated at 88%-90% (see the certification chart below FYR)
Between 150W-200W (175W or 50% PSU load), it's a bit over 92% efficiency. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 50% load is rated exactly at 92% (see below chart)
At 350W (100% PSU load), the efficiency is closer to 90%. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 100% load is rated at 88-89% (see below chart)



PS5's Delta ADP-400DR PSU isn't rated or certified by the 80 PLUS program for "80 PLUS Gold" nor there's any label on it, I'm simply stating that it meets those 80 PLUS Gold standards from the tests conducted by Hardware Busters-published article on TechPowerup. I don't know why you're being so hostile towards me for stating this.

Before you make another antagonistic response while taking digs at me and actually misconstruing my words by saying I made things up or that it's NOT meeting any Gold standards... Here's Steve Burke from Gamers Nexus testing a non-standard Dell PSU with no 80 PLUS branding on it anywhere which means it was clearly not rated/certified by the 80 PLUS program, yet it gets very close/reaches those highest 80+ Titanium standards under certain loads based upon their tests, and Steve actually makes mention that it's on "80 PLUS Titanium level" even though the PSU isn't certified as such. So are you going to argue with Steve and say he's making things up because he self-rated the PSU by saying it's Titanium standard at 100% load?


--

Now onto the topic

SlimySnake SlimySnake Alex is not wrong about that. The game's level designs are highly inconsistent in terms of GPU load. The first level with pink crystallines is extremely taxing on the GPU and you'll see dips under 60fps there even on equivalent GPUs. Past this chapter, in other sections of the game, these GPUs get well over 100fps on Ultra at 1080p like you said. So will the consoles if you could unlock the frame rate.


PS5: 54 fps
2070S PC: 57 fps
5700 PC: 48 fps

Same resolution: 1080p



 
Last edited:

DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
3,986
10,344
785
Let's try this again.

Just take a long hard look at this chart from Aris's review:


Between 50W-100W (75W or 20% PSU load), you can see it's hitting around 91% efficiency. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 20% load is rated at 88%-90% (see the certification chart below FYR)
Between 150W-200W (175W or 50% PSU load), it's a bit over 92% efficiency. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 50% load is rated exactly at 92% (see below chart)
At 350W (100% PSU load), the efficiency is closer to 90%. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 100% load is rated at 88-89% (see below chart)



PS5's Delta ADP-400DR PSU isn't rated or certified by the 80 PLUS program for "80 PLUS Gold" nor there's any label on it, I'm simply stating that it meets those 80 PLUS Gold standards from the tests conducted by Hardware Busters-published article on TechPowerup. I don't know why you're being so hostile towards me for stating this.

Before you make another antagonistic response while taking digs at me and actually misconstruing my words by saying I made things up or that it's NOT meeting any Gold standards... Here's Steve Burke from Gamers Nexus testing a non-standard Dell PSU with no 80 PLUS branding on it anywhere which means it was clearly not rated/certified by the 80 PLUS program, yet it gets very close/reaches those highest 80+ Titanium standards under certain loads based upon their tests, and Steve actually makes mention that it's on "80 PLUS Titanium level" even though the PSU isn't certified as such. So are you going to argue with Steve and say he's making things up because he self-rated the PSU by saying it's Titanium standard at 100% load?

So I'm guessing you never read my posts at all...

I touched several of those things in that long wall of text. Reading comprehension disparity? Language barrier?

Not sure what the random Gamers Nexus video has to do with any of this. It's not about the ps5, and I've already talked about non rated PSU's in an earlier post.






Ps5 or XSX is not listed as a gold rated PSU on Google search, despite you claiming it is?


PS5's PSU is actually 80+ Gold on 230V.



Let's just agree to disagree. You believe what you want to, I'll stick to the FACTS as per usual. You still haven't provided a single source to back up this incorrect claim.


✌️
 

Md Ray

Member
Nov 12, 2016
4,221
13,560
785
So I'm guessing you never read my posts at all...
And I'm guessing you never read these at all:



Between 50W-100W (75W or 20% PSU load), you can see it's hitting around 91% efficiency. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 20% load is rated at 88%-90% (see the certification chart below FYR)
Between 150W-200W (175W or 50% PSU load), it's a bit over 92% efficiency. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 50% load is rated exactly at 92% (see below chart)
At 350W (100% PSU load), the efficiency is closer to 90%. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 100% load is rated at 88-89% (see below chart)


Language barrier?
Maybe. English is not my first language.
Not sure what the random Gamers Nexus video has to do with any of this. It's not about the ps5, and I've already talked about non rated PSU's in an earlier post.
Non rated as in not 80 PLUS certified you mean?
Let's just agree to disagree. You believe what you want to, I'll stick to the FACTS as per usual. You still haven't provided a single source to back up this incorrect claim.
The source is right up there in the two charts above and explains it well. In the GN's vid, they test a crappy looking OEM Dell PSU which is not rated as Gold or Titanium PSU, yet the efficiency test shows it getting close/reaching Titanium standards, just like PS5's PSU reaches 80+ Gold standards at 20%, 50%, and 100% load on 230V.
 
Last edited:

DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
3,986
10,344
785
And I'm guessing you never read these at all:



Between 50W-100W (75W or 20% PSU load), you can see it's hitting around 91% efficiency. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 20% load is rated at 88%-90% (see the certification chart below FYR)
Between 150W-200W (175W or 50% PSU load), it's a bit over 92% efficiency. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 50% load is rated exactly at 92% (see below chart)
At 350W (100% PSU load), the efficiency is closer to 90%. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 100% load is rated at 88-89% (see below chart)



Maybe. English is not my first language.

Non rated as in not 80 PLUS certified you mean?

The source is right up there in the two charts above and explains it well. In the GN's vid, they test a crappy looking OEM Dell PSU which is not rated as Gold or Titanium PSU yet their efficiency tests show it getting close/reaching Titanium standards, just like PS5's PSU reaches 80+ Gold standards at 20%, 50%, and 100%.
Cut to the chase. Is ps5 officially gold rated like you claimed earlier? Or was that another case of something you made up thing in your head again?



Are you sure about that? PS5's PSU is actually 80+ Gold on 230V.
If you were on trial, would your above statement be true or false?

Also: source please? I'm not finding anything on any search engine that coincides with your above statement. Please clarify?
 

Md Ray

Member
Nov 12, 2016
4,221
13,560
785
Cut to the chase. Is ps5 officially gold rated like you claimed earlier? Or was that another case of something you made up thing in your head again?
Officially rated? Nope. But does it match 80 PLUS Gold? Yes. Just like the Dell's PSU that GN reviewed isn't officially 80 PLUS Titanium rated, but its efficiency comes close/matches that of 80 PLUS Titanium.
PS5's Delta ADP-400DR PSU isn't rated or certified by the 80 PLUS program for "80 PLUS Gold" nor there's any label on it, I'm simply stating that it meets those 80 PLUS Gold standards from the tests conducted by Hardware Busters-published article on TechPowerup.
If you were on trial, would your above statement be true or false?

Also: source please? I'm not finding anything on any search engine that coincides with your above statement. Please clarify?
Clarify? See the two charts below. This will be my third time posting these:



Between 50W-100W (75W or 20% PSU load), you can see it's hitting around 91% efficiency. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 20% load is rated at 88%-90% (see the certification chart below FYR)
Between 150W-200W (175W or 50% PSU load), it's a bit over 92% efficiency. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 50% load is rated exactly at 92% (see below chart)
At 350W (100% PSU load), the efficiency is closer to 90%. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 100% load is rated at 88-89% (see below chart)



It's right there, clearly explained how it's meeting 80 PLUS Gold standard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PaintTinJr

DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
3,986
10,344
785
Officially rated? Nope. But does it match 80 PLUS Gold? Yes. Just like the Dell's PSU that GN reviewed isn't officially 80 PLUS Titanium rated, but its efficiency comes close/matches that of 80 PLUS Titanium.


Clarify? See the two charts below. This will be my third time posting these:



Between 50W-100W (75W or 20% PSU load), you can see it's hitting around 91% efficiency. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 20% load is rated at 88%-90% (see the certification chart below FYR)
Between 150W-200W (175W or 50% PSU load), it's a bit over 92% efficiency. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 50% load is rated exactly at 92% (see below chart)
At 350W (100% PSU load), the efficiency is closer to 90%. 80+ Gold standard requirement at 100% load is rated at 88-89% (see below chart)



It's right there, clearly explained how it's meeting 80 PLUS Gold standard.
So according to you, from your own sources, t's NOT gold rated. I figured that, but at least you have confirmed it yourself. Wasn't that hard now, was it?


I personally believe we should not just throw words around like that, especially when you're wrong, because someone might actually believe what you say. Let's just stick to the facts from now on, cool? Can we finally end this now? Yeah?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Riky

Md Ray

Member
Nov 12, 2016
4,221
13,560
785
So according to you, from your own sources, t's NOT gold rated. I figured that, but at least you have confirmed it yourself. Wasn't that hard now, was it?


I personally believe we should not just throw words around like that, especially when you're wrong, because someone might actually believe what you say. Let's just stick to the facts from now on, cool? Can we finally end this now? Yeah?
According to my sources, and 80 PLUS's own chart, the PS5's PSU efficiency results show it meeting 80 PLUS Gold standards, is that wrong or correct?
 
Last edited:

DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
3,986
10,344
785
According to my sources, and 80 PLUS's chart, the PS5's PSU efficiency results show it meeting 80 PLUS Gold standards, is that wrong or correct?
It's not certified gold. You and I both know this. Please just accept it and move on. Idk why you keep trying to prove me wrong, when your obviously in the wrong, yet again. No where in anything you posted, says anything about it being certified.


PSU is actually 80+ Gold




No, it's not, and you proved that yourself.
 

Md Ray

Member
Nov 12, 2016
4,221
13,560
785
It's not certified gold. You and I both know this. Please just accept it and move on. Idk why you keep trying to prove me wrong, when your obviously in the wrong, yet again. No where in anything you posted, says anything about it being certified.







No, it's not, and you proved that yourself.
It's not certified, I never said it was certified. Looking at the efficiency results from Techpowerup, do you not see it meeting 80 PLUS Gold efficiency numbers? Be honest now.
 

DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
3,986
10,344
785
It's not certified, I never said it was certified. Looking at the efficiency results from Techpowerup, do you not see it meeting 80 PLUS Gold efficiency numbers? Be honest now.
It wouldn't matter if it's efficiency is anywhere between bronze or platinum. The point is, you claimed it's 80+ Gold, when in reality, it isn't. And I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It's not gold certified. I don't know how many other ways to tell you that it's not.

PS5's PSU is actually 80+ Gold on 230V.

No. False. Lies. Untrue. Fallacy. Fake news. Not real. Fiction. Fantasy. Fairy tale.


Let's agree to disagree. Believe what you want, and I'll stick to factual data.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Werewolfgrandma

PaintTinJr

Member
Jan 30, 2020
1,263
2,754
475
Oxfordshire, England
It's not certified gold. You and I both know this. Please just accept it and move on. Idk why you keep trying to prove me wrong, when your obviously in the wrong, yet again. No where in anything you posted, says anything about it being certified.







No, it's not, and you proved that yourself.
But your argument doesn't make sense in the real world. Certification costs money, rarely do these things get given freely - and as they don't sell the device as a PC PSU, why would they increase their costs for a certificate that no one will see or check?

In the world of TVs, Sony snubbed the UHD certification - something or other - and they've had no problem communicating to the TV market and TV reviewers that they sell 4K HDR (HLG, HDR10, DolbyVision) and 8K televisions that are the same specification(or better) as UHD without paying for the certification.
 

dcmk7

Member
Mar 25, 2020
1,579
4,962
385
It wouldn't matter if it's efficiency is anywhere between bronze or platinum. The point is, you claimed it's 80+ Gold, when in reality, it isn't. And I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It's not gold certified. I don't know how many other ways to tell you that it's not.



No. False. Lies. Untrue. Fallacy. Fake news. Not real. Fiction. Fantasy. Fairy tale.


Let's agree to disagree. Believe what you want, and I'll stick to factual data.
The way you're responding is very antagonising and condescending.

From what I've seen he never said it was certified. He mentioned that numerous times.

Maybe need a moderator perhaps Mod of War Mod of War or DGrayson DGrayson to step in, as obviously getting no where whilst completely derailing this thread.
 

DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
3,986
10,344
785
But your argument doesn't make sense in the real world. Certification costs money, rarely do these things get given freely - and as they don't sell the device as a PC PSU, why would they increase their costs for a certificate that no one will see or check?

In the world of TVs, Sony snubbed the UHD certification - something or other - and they've had no problem communicating to the TV market and TV reviewers that they sell 4K HDR (HLG, HDR10, DolbyVision) and 8K televisions that are the same specification(or better) as UHD without paying for the certification.
My argument doesn't make sense? Huh? Md Ray said it's 80+ gold. I proceed to prove that it isn't. You kinda answered your own question. That's exactly why it's not certified, which was my point from one of my first posts in here. I already said let's agree to disagree, so I'm not sure why he's still going on and on about the same thing.

dcmk7 dcmk7 just cause it's one of your friends, doesn't mean you should show any bias. It takes two to tango. I simply proved a point, which doesn't really seem to be sticking with your friend.
 
Last edited:

PaintTinJr

Member
Jan 30, 2020
1,263
2,754
475
Oxfordshire, England
My argument doesn't make sense? Huh? Md Ray said it's 80+ gold. I proceed to prove that it isn't. You kinda answered your own question. That's exactly why it's not certified, which was my point from one of my first posts in here. I already said let's agree to disagree, so I'm not sure why he's still going on and on about the same thing.
But within the context of a console faceoff where power draw is of interest because the Road to PS5 GDC talk highlighted a paradigm shift in game optimisation for power on PS5, so comparing two different modes of GotG on two very differently designed consoles, it is obvious to everyone following the conversation (IMO) that meeting the criteria of the certification was his point - and your point too (IMO) - right up until he brought receipts that added up.

The criteria itself potentially gives us lots of extra insight into how optimised the two GotG game modes might be on PS5, because it can change clock slighting more than once every 1/120sec IIRC, so in a 1080p60 mode if it is drawing less power than the 4k30 mode, then it probably means the clock is constantly boosting at 1080p60 from lack of utilisation.
 

DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
3,986
10,344
785
But within the context of a console faceoff where power draw is of interest because the Road to PS5 GDC talk highlighted a paradigm shift in game optimisation for power on PS5, so comparing two different modes of GotG on two very differently designed consoles, it is obvious to everyone following the conversation (IMO) that meeting the criteria of the certification was his point - and your point too (IMO) - right up until he brought receipts that added up.

The criteria itself potentially gives us lots of extra insight into how optimised the two GotG game modes might be on PS5, because it can change clock slighting more than once every 1/120sec IIRC, so in a 1080p60 mode if it is drawing less power than the 4k30 mode, then it probably means the clock is constantly boosting at 1080p60 from lack of utilisation.
Follow the conversation. Someone posted a clamp test of the two consoles. I made a comment, and someone tried to use that opportunity to do a gotcha, and failed at doing so. I never claimed it was 80+ Gold as a fact. I merely disputed it.

I'm not debating smartshift or any of that. I'm simply proving it's not certified, And no one should claim that it is, as there's no published data to coincide with it. I even said XSX isn't 80+ gold either. Anyways if you wanna continue conversation, you can pm me. I see what y'all's gang is trying to do here. You or any of your friends can freely pm me if you have anything to add.
 
Last edited:

PaintTinJr

Member
Jan 30, 2020
1,263
2,754
475
Oxfordshire, England
Follow the conversation. Someone posted a clamp test of the two consoles. I made a comment, and someone tried to use that opportunity to do a gotcha, and failed at doing so. I never claimed it was 80+ Gold as a fact. I merely disputed it.

I'm not debating smartshift or any of that. I'm simply proving it's not certified, And no one should claim that it is, as there's no published data to coincide with it. I even said XSX isn't 80+ gold either. Anyways if you wanna continue conversation, you can pm me. I see what y'all's gang is trying to do here. You or any of your friends can freely pm me if you have anything to add.
My main interest in this thread came when I saw someone had posted metro and GotG pictures (IIRC) showing power draw comparisons of the two consoles - which you liked and wanted to see more of.

Being a stickler for scientific method, my instant though was that the pictures represented slightly different views and assets on screen and would potentially have different workloads - along with another 20 thoughts about even using different HDMi ports on the TV, different console settings for HDR, Full/limited RGB or ycocg colour, and different SSD/peripherals connected, etc throwing the values off - when it was quickly insinuated that higher clocks for Ps5 instantly meant higher power draw - without any consideration of if that holds up under the new paradigm constant clock boost.

Us knowing that the PS5 PSU meets the criteria of 80 plus gold makes it easier for us to discuss the PSU without graphs, and to guess what the power draw limit will be for a highly optimised 36 CU wide workload that probably runs at 30fps and forces the clock down 3% to save 10% power use, but probably still draws more power than a lighter 30fps fully boosted workload.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Md Ray and dcmk7

DaGwaphics

Member
Dec 29, 2019
5,097
6,776
570
Is there really a competition about which console uses less power or more? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

That would be sad if true. The stats posted are basically what everyone that's done that testing has said from the beginning, that PS5 uses a bit more power. Don't think it matters. The basic specs of the two machines essentially tell you that much, with Sony going with an ever so slightly larger PSU (350 vs. 315 I think).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DarkMage619

Vognerful

Member
May 21, 2020
806
968
375
Is there really a competition about which console uses less power or more? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

That would be sad if true. The stats posted are basically what everyone that's done that testing has said from the beginning, that PS5 uses a bit more power. Don't think it matters. The basic specs of the two machines essentially tell you that much, with Sony going with an ever so slightly larger PSU (350 vs. 315 I think).
It brings back the old claim that PS5 is designed to be "more efficient" than XSX by some people here. How can it be if it is using more power to produce same result?
 
Apr 4, 2020
726
1,624
360
It brings back the old claim that PS5 is designed to be "more efficient" than XSX by some people here. How can it be if it is using more power to produce same result?
Well that depends on how you define efficiency. If your metric is only power consumption sure but thats a truncated way to view it. What about BOM, Sony packing in the advanced controller and SSD advancements with, as you said, roughly equal performance?
 

DenchDeckard

Member
Feb 28, 2021
3,011
5,336
430
Console Wars: PSU the new FLOPs

I was literally going to say. These boxes are so close we now have to argue about the PSUs.

On a positive, anyone who I know and podcasts I've listened to who have played this game have nothing but praise for it. It looks to be a great story with great graphics and characters that grow through the campaign.

I hope they can get these tech issues sorted so it runs solid ASAP so more of us can enjoy it.

I've just completed the first World on pc and I'm basically brute forcing it with my set up but dang it looks good. Will invest more time this weekend.
 

Vognerful

Member
May 21, 2020
806
968
375
Well that depends on how you define efficiency. If your metric is only power consumption sure but thats a truncated way to view it. What about BOM, Sony packing in the advanced controller and SSD advancements with, as you said, roughly equal performance?
Bro, efficiency was always this way.

How is adding more BOM making it more efficient design?

FYI, if you wanted to give a point to Sony as a rebuttal to my comment, you should have just said that they have a much more efficient data storage solution than Microsoft which they have proved many times.
 

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
14,575
29,389
1,530
Md Ray Md Ray
As far as facts are concerned, actual measurements matter to me more (as they should to any intelligent and mature person) than an arbritary certification. If a PSU is proven to match a requirement for a certification, then it does. 🤷‍♂️

Thank you for taking the time to show measurement results and other examples.

Sorry for the off-topic, let's move on.
 
Last edited:

DemonCleaner

Member
Jun 11, 2004
2,145
1,348
1,725
thats very interesting. Higher clocks do tend to have higher power usage.



Now this test was done by our very own DemonCleaner DemonCleaner on a RDNA1 card, but while the power consumption might be lower, the curve should be the same.

In my power consumption testing, the PS5 typically hovers around 210 Watts in PS5 SKUs like the Doom Eternal PS5 Port and Spiderman remastered. Metro should be one of the few games thats hitting the 2.23 Ghz clockspeeds while also taxing the CPU. It's hard to say for sure, but the power usage being that high should indicate that the PS5 should not have any trouble maintaining higher GPU clocks without downscaling the clocks and thus tflops to 9 tflops so many here had feared/hoped for. ;p Very interesting stuff.

I might test this in control's photomode.

thanks for the shout out. no time to read through the discussion for context, but i repeated this experiment for rdna2 and compared it to rdna1

*please note that low frequency power behavoir (2000Mhz and below) is limited by AMDs voltage curve options and not so much by rdna2 power charateristics. could even be much lower in this range.


for more info also see

[Power Analysis] What happens if you spec a PC like a PS5? | NeoGAF

sorry i let this thread die because of apparent low interest
 
Apr 4, 2020
726
1,624
360
Bro, efficiency was always this way.

How is adding more BOM making it more efficient design?

FYI, if you wanted to give a point to Sony as a rebuttal to my comment, you should have just said that they have a much more efficient data storage solution than Microsoft which they have proved many times.
I also didnt say you were wrong, merely that efficiency can be way broader than power usage. For instance a Tesla uses more power than a Mustang, which one is more efficient?

Also if that point was so trivial what does the term ENERGY efficient exist? To denote that the subject matter is efficient when energy is the FOCUS
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Vognerful