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[DF] Guardians of the Galaxy: PS5 vs Xbox Series X/S - A Great Game But 60FPS Comes At A Cost

DarkMage619

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The vast majority of the money is always made on the consoles, which is why those are the main target platforms for 99% of all big budget games. The PC has always been either an afterthought (port) or an entirely separate version if there`s enough budget.

This nonsense logic that the XSS can`t be the lowest common denominator because there are a lot of office PCs out there is beyond stupid. Wishful thinking to the point of complete delusion.

You are talking to me about delusion? What office PCs are rocking a GTX 1060? I took my numbers from the STEAM survey. How many office PCs have STEAM running on it? This game in particular runs far better on PCs with effects consoles lack entirely so afterthought or no the PC market is the place where most of these games shine. Devs aren't going to ignore a huge potential base of support by making the XSS baseline. Again more silliness targeting the XSS. You guys twist yourselves in knots to knock the platform its pretty sad.
 

Darsxx82

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NXGamer NXGamer is no more guilty of "mistakes" than DF or VG Tech. All three have shown different results at times so highlighting his as mistakes is being just as selective as you say others are.
NXG's errors and the discordance of its analyzes regarding DF and Vgetch have been especially important more than once and nothing compared to what DF is being discussed in this Gotg case and yet you see people discussing their professionalism and even hinting at reasons to ban . Even more incredible when there is not even a disagreement between VGtech and DF 😅.

That's what I mean, and that's clearly a reality here. Censorship cannot be reduced to what a group decides or demands just because they don't like what they see at times.
 
Aug 20, 2021
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I have a 7-year old PC with an i7-4770K @ 4.0 GHz and 16 GB of 1,600 MHz memory with a 4-year old GTX 1080 Ti and the benchmark reports an average framerate of 72 fps at 1440p with everything maxed out except for the RT reflections (however, RT transparency reflections are enabled). I've locked the game to 60 fps using RTSS and the game holds that framerate for about 99.8% of the time, only occasionally dipping during combat (though G-SYNC helps keeps it feeling smooth here), and with the odd stutter here and there during some of the cinematics,. very much like on the consoles.

Quite why the Xbox Series X and PS5 versions are limited to 1080p is anyone's guess because at the resolutiion the game is even using *lower* settings!!! It reeks of lazy optimisation in my opinion, like the developers just picked the lowest resolution that enabled the game to run as-is at mostly 60 fps. That the new console versions cannot even achieve a locked 60 fps at 1080p is really, really disappointing. Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart looks better than this game, has more going on during combat and manages ray-tracking at 60 fps!!! My guess is this game was rushed out to hit the lucrative pre-Christmas period and really didn't more work on the optimisation side of things.

It's a shame really because this is a very good game so far and vastly superior to the bore-fest that is Marvel's Avengers. There are plenty of glitches and bugs, again pointing to a rushed release in my view, but apart from having to restart at a checkpoint due to the background graphics being missing (!?!?!?) during one first-person cutscene on the Milano, the game has been otherwise stable and I have not had any crashes on PC.
I hope the developers realize that they're losing potential sales with this lazy optimization they've done on console. How many people would've considered buying this if it was 1440p/60 with better settings on ps5/x? I know I would have.
 

SlimySnake

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The vast majority of the money is always made on the consoles, which is why those are the main target platforms for 99% of all big budget games. The PC has always been either an afterthought (port) or an entirely separate version if there`s enough budget.

This nonsense logic that the XSS can`t be the lowest common denominator because there are a lot of office PCs out there is beyond stupid. Wishful thinking to the point of complete delusion.
XSS is not going to be the lowest common denominator. No dev seems to care just how much they have to downgrade the XSS version in order to get it to run. I knew that as soon as I saw metro running at 512p. Thats closer to 480p than 560p which was the lowest resolution on early PS3 games. If the devs are willing to down to almost 480p, they clearly dont see it as a lowest common denominator platform. Had they targeted 1080p for the xss then yes. You could argue that XSS is the base console.

But right now, we have seen games ship with missing RT features. We have seen 60 fps games ship as 30 fps games. We have seen graphics paired back substantially. Several games look and perform worse on the xsx than they did on the x1x. If the XSX was the base console, EVERY console wouldve been missing RT features. Every console wouldve had the same foliage settings as the xss just like how the x1 and base PS4 settings were used for the PS4 Pro and X1X despite the fact that they could really push foliage and other graphical settings.

Devs are treating the xss as they treated the Switch ports. Doom, Wolfenstein, Yoshi's island, Witcher 3 and Mortal Kombat can at times go down to 360p-480p in handheld mode. And that too with graphics settings so low, they look like a different game. Clearly, MS has no set any standards or requirements for this console so devs do the bare minimum and get a port out there just to fill a contract obligation. You can see that with UE5. They are targeting 1440p 30 fps for both the xsx and PS5. And just 1080p 30 fps with hardware accelerated lumens. Where does that leave the XSS? 560p in hardware accerlated lumens or 720p in standard lumens settings? Is the new nanite tech going to be bandwidth heavy and cause even more drops on the xss? Probably.

But none of that means XSS will hold anything back. The only version thats beeing held back by its spec is the xss version. It's a shame that almost 40% of xbox owners will experience next gen with so many graphics sacrifices but thats a topic for another thread.
 
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As the generation moves forward, we're gonna start seeing the resolution get hit hard if you want your smooth 60fps. Also, I find it kinda odd that digital foundry didn't even mention there's screen tearing in the 60fps mode.
 
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How did this turn into a pc thread??
This game is on PC and thoroughly benchmarked. Consoles are walled-garden AMD htpcs. PC benchmarking can offer insight into potential bottlenecks, and provide for more technical discussion than random "tHe DeVelOper tEh SuCkoRz". For example, the consoles perform similar to a 5700XT or 2060S, which is typical. Also, AMD/Sony were benchmarking PS5 in 3DMark and Userbench before launch. I'd say PC discussion is relevant and has merit.
PC gamers have always been a very annoying minority who try to be as loud as possible because deep down they know most publishers do not care about the PC as a platform.
^Low quality bait. The game is on PC. PC also has RDNA2 and Zen 2, and PS5's CPU.
---
In regards to DF and VGTech, DF said in their video that the game could be using DRS, it just didn't show in the counts they did.
 
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Topher

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NXG's errors and the discordance of its analyzes regarding DF and Vgetch have been especially important more than once and nothing compared to what DF is being discussed in this Gotg case and yet you see people discussing their professionalism and even hinting at reasons to ban . Even more incredible when there is not even a disagreement between VGtech and DF 😅.

Yes, there is a disagreement between VG Tech and DF. There have been "disagreements" across VG, DG, and NXG almost entirely dealing with pixel counts.
 

Arioco

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At first it seems totally unfair and disproportionate to prohibit Elanalista here. But using this example to discredit and request the same treatment from DF says a lot about DF's anger here because because.

First, because there is nothing that can be discussed with DF because its analysis coincides 99.9% with what results from the VGtech video. Another thing is that some are looking beyond what is seen.

DF clearly states that DRS may exist but that they did not detect in their captures. According to Vgtech it was relatively difficult to find scenes to detect because the game is stable most of the time on both consoles in 4K mode.

Second, I don't know where you see a different result in framerate. They are fully coinciding and it is only a matter of people not knowing how to interpret a table. It is funny to point out and discuss the work of DF foundry and even request its ban (LOL) and meanwhile save face and defend, for example and not e request the same to, for an example, NXG when clearly it has been having more big mistakes .

In the end there is more in another example that people discuss only what they do not like to see. The logical and fair thing is always to avoid censorship and that each one stays with what they believe is more faithful.


Dude, I was just joking. Do I even need to say it? Most DF videos you can see on GAF were posted by me. Will you please relax a bit?

And I will never request a ban for any source we could possibly have, on the contrary, I was saying that ElAnalistadeBits should not be banned either. I guess you weren't joking when talking about NXGamer, who hasn't even analysed the game yet, but yes, the problem is other people trying to discredit DF, unlike you that aren't trying to discredit Michael at all, right?

DF screwed it this time. And don't tell me they crearly said DRS could be in place because they say that every single time they find only a fixed resolution, as you should know. If they didn't see the rez dropping to 1620p in one of the beginning areas where they clearly see frame rate drops (which are the areas you have to pixel count if you want to know if the gane is using DRS), then they're doing it wrong. Period. No excuses.

And it's funny because you started your message saying DF did not make any mistake at all (their pixel count were fine because they never ruled out the possibility of DRS and the frame rate was OK too because it's our fault if we don't know how to interpret a table) and ended it saying NXG makes "more big mistakes". Maybe you should start by deciding whether DF made any mistake at all, big or small, to begin with.
 
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Md Ray

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There is no need to twist your words. Most arguments against the XSS are silly so reading them back exposes ridiculous they are. The main reason games struggled on the X1 was because it launched with GDDR 3 RAM and a crippled GPU in 2013. The design choices on the XSS are night and day different from X1. There is no reason that future games will struggle on the XSS unless a developer doesn't take time to utilize its features and optimize the software which is true for ALL software.

MS has released several fantastic running and looking games for the XSS. Guardians only managed to hit 1080p/60 on the PS5 and XSX. You take that as a sign those platforms will struggle in the future? Why use 3rd party titles as a gage of what a console can do and not first party anyway? Only the XSS is held to that standard. MS 'lies' are all based on 3rd party titles which they don't make. Again it's silly.


The most popular GPU on the PC is the GTX 1060. PC developers will not ignore the majority of PC gamers who don't have newer graphics cards just to make the XSS the base for development. Especially when they can target a lower spec and potentially make XSS versions of games even easier.

There are tons of PCs out right now that aren't beating the XSS' GPU capabilities. PC devs will choose a baseline that revolves around a spec most people can meet and go from there. This is especially true when getting new PC GPUs is pretty expensive and difficult. Ignoring vast majorities of a consumer base is business suicide. Especially when a high end GPU owner can crank up the settings and not even be bothered with an experience a lower end GPU owner would have.
So when exactly does XSS become the baseline, lowest common denominator for game development like XB1? Or... Do you think devs will keep making games for older GTX 1060 with feature level 12_1 for the next 7-8 years?
The vast majority of the money is always made on the consoles, which is why those are the main target platforms for 99% of all big budget games. The PC has always been either an afterthought (port) or an entirely separate version if there`s enough budget.

This nonsense logic that the XSS can`t be the lowest common denominator because there are a lot of office PCs out there is beyond stupid. Wishful thinking to the point of complete delusion.
Precisely, I couldn't have said any better. Thank you!
 
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ParaSeoul

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^Low quality bait. The game is on PC. PC also has RDNA2 and Zen 2, and PS5's CPU.
---
In regards to DF and VGTech, DF said in their video that the game could be using DRS, it just didn't show in the counts they did.
Not bait just facts,sorry.
 
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Fucking YIKES on that PS5 resolution in the image, and YIKES on Xbox framerate. these consoles are struggling with this game!

at 11:10 the PS5 is just like randomly tanking into the 40s . What is going on with this game.

They arent even keeping 30fps in that quality mode. Rough!
Are we all just going to ignore that the pic on the right is zoomed in more?
 
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Haggard

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. Devs aren't going to ignore a huge potential base of support by making the XSS baseline.
riiight, the PC has been at the receiving end of afterthought ports since the PS2 era but now that you guys suddenly have an agenda that did ofc never happen and developers will suddenly consider not only the PC but the low, LOW, end PC as THE main target platform, with its giant (sarcasm) sales share.... Can`t wait for the first real next gen CoD / BF games being downwards compatible to mainstream coffee machines :messenger_tears_of_joy:

XSS is not going to be the lowest common denominator. No dev seems to care just how much they have to downgrade the XSS version in order to get it to run. I knew that as soon as I saw metro running at 512p. Thats closer to 480p than 560p which was the lowest resolution on early PS3 games. If the devs are willing to down to almost 480p, they clearly dont see it as a lowest common denominator platform. Had they targeted 1080p for the xss then yes. You could argue that XSS is the base console.

But right now, we have seen games ship with missing RT features. We have seen 60 fps games ship as 30 fps games. We have seen graphics paired back substantially. Several games look and perform worse on the xsx than they did on the x1x. If the XSX was the base console, EVERY console wouldve been missing RT features. Every console wouldve had the same foliage settings as the xss just like how the x1 and base PS4 settings were used for the PS4 Pro and X1X despite the fact that they could really push foliage and other graphical settings.

Devs are treating the xss as they treated the Switch ports. Doom, Wolfenstein, Yoshi's island, Witcher 3 and Mortal Kombat can at times go down to 360p-480p in handheld mode. And that too with graphics settings so low, they look like a different game. Clearly, MS has no set any standards or requirements for this console so devs do the bare minimum and get a port out there just to fill a contract obligation. You can see that with UE5. They are targeting 1440p 30 fps for both the xsx and PS5. And just 1080p 30 fps with hardware accelerated lumens. Where does that leave the XSS? 560p in hardware accerlated lumens or 720p in standard lumens settings? Is the new nanite tech going to be bandwidth heavy and cause even more drops on the xss? Probably.

But none of that means XSS will hold anything back. The only version thats beeing held back by its spec is the xss version. It's a shame that almost 40% of xbox owners will experience next gen with so many graphics sacrifices but thats a topic for another thread.
best case scenario if you ask me.
Ignore the wannabe next gen machine as much as possible. With the new target specs the jump of the real next gen machines is small enough as is.
 
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Md Ray

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I wouldn't say that, but seeing raw footage like this does suggest to me that it's worth waiting for a patch. Right now, quality mode is the way to play on current gen, but even then, you've got frame stutters and streaming hitches popping in on the regular. The Performance mode is disappointing on both though and hard to understand. The Quality mode rarely drops below 29 FPS, suggesting that at 4K/60 with increased settings there's a fair amount of headroom - without the cap I suspect it would be turning in an average frame rate of around 40FPS. Why they need to quarter resolution and reduce draw distances to make up that extra 20 FPS (and still not even consistently get it) is baffling.
In Quality mode, both XSX and PS5 have a bit of breathing room due to dynamic res scaler which is why you don't see such harsh frame rate dips, whereas in Perf mode, AFAIK, it's a static 1080p.
 

Darsxx82

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Dude, I was just joking. Do I even need to say it? Most DF videos you can see on GAF were posted by me. Will you please relax a bit?

And I will never request a ban for any source we could possibly have, on the contrary, I was saying that ElAnalistadeBits should not be banned either. I guess you weren't joking when talking about NXGamer, who hasn't even analysed the game yet, but yes, the problem is other people trying to discredit DF, unlike you that aren't trying to discredit Michael at all, right?

DF screwed it this time. And don't tell me they crearly said DRS could be in place because they say that every single time they find only a fixed resolution, as you should know. If they didn't see the rez dropping to 1620p in one of the beginning areas where they clearly see frame rate drops (which are the areas you have to pixel count if you want to know if the gane is using DRS), then they're doing it wrong. Period. No excuses.

And it's funny because you started your message saying DF did not make any mistake at all (their pixel count were fine because they never ruled out the possibility of DRS and the frame rate was OK too because it's our fault if we don't know how to interpret a table) and ended it saying NXG makes "more big mistakes". Maybe you should start by deciding whether DF made any mistake at all, big or small, to begin with.
It is not my obligation to have to detect sarcasm or jokes. Rather, it is you who should have pointed out that you were not serious. If you don't, you leave the door open for it to be understood that you mean it. especially in a place like this where crazy stuff is read every day.

That said, the degree of demands that you place on DF at GOTG and bring the joke is significant. Significant in the sense that you don't see the same joke right for NXG on other, much more blatant occasions. As significant as seeing as the requirement of certitude to DF is not the same that is required in this forum to NXG and you just have to go to the threads of FC6 and Kena to verify it.

Without the need for justifications, DF was perfectly able to reduce its resolution count to the first gameplay level and obtained native 4k and not cinematics. Maybe it wasn't smart, but hey, you don't want to compare 1800p vs 1200p discrepancies in the same scene as in Kena ... or point out that XSX is far from reaching native 4K on FC6 during gameplay and negate the resolution margins VGtech and DF up to 30% resolution in favor of XSX at different times. Or the flagrant mistake of calculating the average resolution of a game including cutscenes at half fps compared to gameplay. The fact is that here DF / TOM has not had so much protection or even a measuring stick, rather the opposite and even for you to see appropriate to make a joke highlighting the "error".
 
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DarkMage619

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So when exactly does XSS become the baseline, lowest common denominator for game development like XB1? Or... Do you think devs will keep making games for older GTX 1060 with feature level 12_1 for the next 7-8 years?

Precisely, I couldn't have said any better. Thank you!
The PC baseline is determined by the PC user base. When the vast majority of PC owners aren't using GTX 1060 the minimum specs will bump up. You seem to be implying that the floor is the celling. The floor will always trail far behind. The best thing about PCs is that games on that platform can scale to a wide variety of platforms. It is highly unlikely PC devs to be mandating that a PC have a Zen 2 CPU and RDNA 2 GPU minimum any time soon. Again PC upgrades aren't easy to come by.

It is pretty funny that you'd agree with the guy who didn't know that office PCs weren't sampled in the STEAM poll though.
 
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Darsxx82

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Yes, there is a disagreement between VG Tech and DF. There have been "disagreements" across VG, DG, and NXG almost entirely dealing with pixel counts.
In this case there is no disagreement. As usual, VGTech spends much more time detecting variations in resolution. The game is stable and holds up well the vast majority of the time in native 4K gameplay on consoles and is much more difficult than at other times. Then the results in framerate lead you to the exact same conclusion as DF.

And yes, all at one time or another have had disagreements, but never between DF and VGtech have we seen things such as 1800p vs 1200p discrepancies in Kena or those of FC6 as has happened with NXG compared to the rest. And in those cases it was right to justify it with: "this is how DRS works." But this one from DF turns out to be very serious and little less than unacceptable😅

However, my motivation was not to highlight who or does not have more errors. It is the clear different measuring stick and reacting that here is limited to whether or not you like what you see.
 

Topher

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The PC baseline is determined by the PC user base. When the vast majority of PC owners aren't using GTX 1060 the minimum specs will bump up.

PC owners or PC gamers? The vast majority of PC gamers are not using the GTX 1060.

In this case there is no disagreement. As usual, VGTech spends much more time detecting variations in resolution. The game is stable and holds up well the vast majority of the time in native 4K gameplay on consoles and is much more difficult than at other times. Then the results in framerate lead you to the exact same conclusion as DF.

Of course there is.

"Temporal anti-aliasing is used on each, and it's the premier way to enjoy the games visuals. There's a chance of dynamic resolution scaling here too. However, every pixel count returns a native 4K on this mode."

"PS5 in Quality Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest resolution found being 3840x2160 and the lowest resolution found being 2880x1620. Xbox Series X in Quality Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest resolution found being 3840x2160 and the lowest resolution found being 3200x1800."
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/vg-t...box-series-x-s-frame-rate-comparison.1622611/

This is exactly the type of discrepancy that NXG was said to have made.

And yes, all at one time or another have had disagreements, but never between DF and VGtech have we seen things such as 1800p vs 1200p discrepancies in Kena or those of FC6 as has happened with NXG compared to the rest. And in those cases it was right to justify it with: "this is how DRS works." But this one from DF turns out to be very serious and little less than unacceptable😅

However, my motivation was not to highlight who or does not have more errors. It is the clear different measuring stick and reacting that here is limited to whether or not you like what you see.

In the case of Far Cry 6, DF had a significant discrepancy in lower bound resolution for XSS that wasn't reflected by VGT or NXG at all. Of course, a lot of folks blatantly ignored that and tried to redirect focus on NXG's discrepancy that differed from VGT and DF.
 
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DarkMage619

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PC owners or PC gamers? The vast majority of PC gamers are not using the GTX 1060.
PC gamers clearly because I don't see Steam stats coming from office PCs. The GTX 1060 is the most popular GPU according to Steam. About 8% of all gaming PCS have the GTX 1060. No other card has a higher representation.
 
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XSS is not going to be the lowest common denominator. No dev seems to care just how much they have to downgrade the XSS version in order to get it to run. I knew that as soon as I saw metro running at 512p. Thats closer to 480p than 560p which was the lowest resolution on early PS3 games. If the devs are willing to down to almost 480p, they clearly dont see it as a lowest common denominator platform. Had they targeted 1080p for the xss then yes. You could argue that XSS is the base console.

But right now, we have seen games ship with missing RT features. We have seen 60 fps games ship as 30 fps games. We have seen graphics paired back substantially. Several games look and perform worse on the xsx than they did on the x1x. If the XSX was the base console, EVERY console wouldve been missing RT features. Every console wouldve had the same foliage settings as the xss just like how the x1 and base PS4 settings were used for the PS4 Pro and X1X despite the fact that they could really push foliage and other graphical settings.

Devs are treating the xss as they treated the Switch ports. Doom, Wolfenstein, Yoshi's island, Witcher 3 and Mortal Kombat can at times go down to 360p-480p in handheld mode. And that too with graphics settings so low, they look like a different game. Clearly, MS has no set any standards or requirements for this console so devs do the bare minimum and get a port out there just to fill a contract obligation. You can see that with UE5. They are targeting 1440p 30 fps for both the xsx and PS5. And just 1080p 30 fps with hardware accelerated lumens. Where does that leave the XSS? 560p in hardware accerlated lumens or 720p in standard lumens settings? Is the new nanite tech going to be bandwidth heavy and cause even more drops on the xss? Probably.

But none of that means XSS will hold anything back. The only version thats beeing held back by its spec is the xss version. It's a shame that almost 40% of xbox owners will experience next gen with so many graphics sacrifices but thats a topic for another thread.
Good points. Cross gen ps4/xb1 is what's holding things back now anyway.
 

Topher

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PC gamers clearly because I don't see Steam stats coming from office PCs. The GTX 1060 is the most popular GPU according to Steam. About 8% of all gaming PCS have the GTX 1060. No other card has a higher representation.

Well that's why I asked because clearly 8% is not the "vast majority" of PC gamers on Steam. Being the single most popular GPU doesn't make it the majority, much less "vast majority".

But if you sum up the individual GPUs on Steam that are more powerful than GTX 1060 then you get pretty close to 50%.
 
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Riky

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Developers aren't going to move on from the most popular cards is the point.
I see the minimum PC spec moving very slowly due to the chip shortage, you've only got to look at recent releases to see this.
 

Arioco

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It is not my obligation to have to detect sarcasm or jokes. Rather, it is you who should have pointed out that you were not serious. If you don't, you leave the door open for it to be understood that you mean it. especially in a place like this where crazy stuff is read every day.

That said, the degree of demands that you place on DF at GOTG and bring the joke is significant. Significant in the sense that you don't see the same joke right for NXG on other, much more blatant occasions. As significant as seeing as the requirement of certitude to DF is not the same that is required in this forum to NXG and you just have to go to the threads of FC6 and Kena to verify it.

Without the need for justifications, DF was perfectly able to reduce its resolution count to the first gameplay level and obtained native 4k and not cinematics. Maybe it wasn't smart, but hey, you don't want to compare 1800p vs 1200p discrepancies in the same scene as in Kena ... or point out that XSX is far from reaching native 4K on FC6 during gameplay and negate the resolution margins VGtech and DF up to 30% resolution in favor of XSX at different times. Or the flagrant mistake of calculating the average resolution of a game including cutscenes at half fps compared to gameplay. The fact is that here DF / TOM has not had so much protection or even a measuring stick, rather the opposite and even for you to see appropriate to make a joke highlighting the "error".


Dude, you are sooo boring, really. I'm not interested in your hatred for NXGamer. I mean, he's a GAF member, tell him what you want to and leave me alone. Seriously, I find you so boring that I can't even finish reading your messages. No sarcasm this time, I literally can't.

Relax and good luck with your life. 🙂
 
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Md Ray

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The PC baseline is determined by the PC user base. When the vast majority of PC owners aren't using GTX 1060 the minimum specs will bump up. You seem to be implying that the floor is the celling. The floor will always trail far behind. The best thing about PCs is that games on that platform can scale to a wide variety of platforms. It is highly unlikely PC devs to be mandating that a PC have a Zen 2 CPU and RDNA 2 GPU minimum any time soon. Again PC upgrades aren't easy to come by.

It is pretty funny that you'd agree with the guy who didn't know that office PCs weren't sampled in the STEAM poll though.
Consoles are and always have been the baseline for game development for a long time, not PC. And that isn't going to change in the future, XB1 has been the lowest common denominator for the past 7 or so years. Series S will simply take its place moving forward for devs like Turn10, Playground studios for their next-gen games. Sooner or later they'll want to make use of all the DX12U features such as mesh shaders, sampler feedback, and more so they'll have to update their engine and go full FL12_2 render path route, this means forgoing cards like GTX 1060 in favor of FL12_2 only cards.

4A Games have already announced via DF that their next title will only run on HW with RT acceleration as their engine's lighting scheme has been moved fully towards ray tracing, so this right here is a confirmation that their next game won't be supported by GTX 1060 or any FL12_1 GPU for that matter (which even includes cards like 1650, 1660).
 

Darsxx82

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Dude, you are sooo boring, really. I'm not interested in your hatred for NXGamer. I mean, he's a GAF member, tell him what you want to and leave me alone. Seriously, I find you so boring that I can't even finish reading your messages. No sarcasm this time, I literally can't.

Relax and good luck with your life. 🙂
Where I live, your answer is often called "going off on a tangent."

Good luck with your life too 😉
 
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DeaDPooL_jlp

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Sep 20, 2015
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The vast majority of the money is always made on the consoles, which is why those are the main target platforms for 99% of all big budget games. The PC has always been either an afterthought (port) or an entirely separate version if there`s enough budget.
I hope we continue to get "afterthought" pc ports.

I'll go back to enjoying GotG with ultrawide support, ray tracing, max settings, all at a consistent 85-100fps. How dare they give us such shit.
 
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Haggard

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I hope we continue to get "afterthought" pc ports.

I'll go back to enjoying GotG with ultrawide support, ray tracing, max settings, all at a consistent 85-100fps. How dare they give us such shit.
Bc that game is clearly such a low budget game that the developers could absolutely not afford a good PC version...

Congrats on not even reading what you answer to.
 
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Md Ray

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Nov 12, 2016
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I reinstalled the game and still getting the same results. I haven't found anything as specific as a Ryzen 1600 DLSS On/Off comparison. I did find a i7-10700(@4.5GHz)+3060 DLSS On/Off comparison. A stock 3060 is very comparable to a 2060S oc'd.

At 1080p/Ultra Settings/Ultra RT, i7-10700(@4.5GHz)+3060 is getting 58fps avg, while my Ryzen 1600+2060S oc is getting 54fps avg. He's on the previous driver(49613) while I'm on the newer "game-ready" driver(49649). I had a 6% perf increase when I rolled back to that version, so if I was on that version it would be i7-10700+3060 at 58fps avg, Ryzen 1600+2060S oc at 57avg. Pretty much no difference, maybe because the Ultra+Ultra RT forces a GPU-bound scenario?


Now with DLSS(Ultra Performance) he's getting 112fps avg, while I'm getting 55fps avg. My CPU frame times are pretty much double. This is despite the overall and per-thread CPU load only being 60-70%. It's definitely some sort of CPU bottleneck, though.


Lastly, DSOGaming had a system RAM speed scaling graph that might be relevant, as well. DDR4-3800 offers a 32% increase in performance over DDR4-2666. I'm on 2x16GB DDR4-2400, so that gap could be even bigger. However, without first removing the CPU bottleneck, I couldn't accurately gauge the impact of that.

It's bizarre since I'm able to hit 120fps in DOOM Eternal and Back 4 Blood pretty easily.

I just tested my 3060 laptop again that has 2x8GB DDR4-3200 and I'm getting worse performance with DLSS than without. 69fps avg with DLSS Off, 67fps avg with DLSS Ultra Performance. DLSS Ultra Perf should be shooting my frames up over 100fps with ease.

I've settled on the idea that I'm CPU-limited on both my desktop and laptop. It is what it is. This game needs some CPU optimization. It plays acceptably with the rolled-back driver on my PC. I'm just going to enjoy what I got for now. I'll revisit it sometime next year after I upgrade my hardware. Amazing game, has me hyped and laughing non-stop.
Yup can confirm. I'm seeing the same with the built-in benchmark on my 3700X, RTX 3070, DDR4-3200.

Low, 1080p, DLSS Off: 111 fps (CPU: 16.9ms)
Low, 1080p DLSS Ultra Perf: 109 fps (CPU: 17ms)

The beginning of the benchmark is extremely taxing on the CPU, a combination of core/thread heavy workload and probably hammers system mem BW as well.
 
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NXGamer

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In this case there is no disagreement. As usual, VGTech spends much more time detecting variations in resolution. The game is stable and holds up well the vast majority of the time in native 4K gameplay on consoles and is much more difficult than at other times. Then the results in framerate lead you to the exact same conclusion as DF.

And yes, all at one time or another have had disagreements, but never between DF and VGtech have we seen things such as 1800p vs 1200p discrepancies in Kena or those of FC6 as has happened with NXG compared to the rest. And in those cases it was right to justify it with: "this is how DRS works." But this one from DF turns out to be very serious and little less than unacceptable😅

However, my motivation was not to highlight who or does not have more errors. It is the clear different measuring stick and reacting that here is limited to whether or not you like what you see.
 

dcmk7

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Xbox Series S does not fare as well, unfortunately. The higher frame-rate 60fps option is missing, leaving you with a 1080p30 mode that also sees degraded grass density and more noticeable LOD pop-in.
Only just read the full article.

Didn't realise that the XSS version was quite so bad.. knew about the 30fps patch but hadn't realised that the developers had to also tone down the graphics and introduce more pop-in to compensate.

Maybe it would get patched in the coming months - since there is such a big disparity between the versions - but it's further evidence that Jason Ronald shouldn't have made his rather unwise claim that users would be getting the exact same experience as the XSX albeit at a lower rendering resolution.

Hopefully they can at least bump it back to 60fps with some optimization.

Have the developers mentioned anything about XSS and whether it will get patched? They should probably say something. Rough.
 

DarkMage619

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Jun 19, 2004
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Well that's why I asked because clearly 8% is not the "vast majority" of PC gamers on Steam. Being the single most popular GPU doesn't make it the majority, much less "vast majority".

But if you sum up the individual GPUs on Steam that are more powerful than GTX 1060 then you get pretty close to 50%.
You are correct. The majority of PC GPUs aren't GTX 1060s. I clarified that point in the comment you quoted. There are more PCs with GTX 1060s than any other type of GPU. There are more PCs with 1060s than XSSs. So it would make sense to cater to the larger audience for the minimum spec don't you think? It would also ensure that the XSS would have no issues receiving those ports as a side benefit. Win-win.

Consoles are and always have been the baseline for game development for a long time, not PC. And that isn't going to change in the future, XB1 has been the lowest common denominator for the past 7 or so years. Series S will simply take its place moving forward for devs like Turn10, Playground studios for their next-gen games. Sooner or later they'll want to make use of all the DX12U features such as mesh shaders, sampler feedback, and more so they'll have to update their engine and go full FL12_2 render path route, this means forgoing cards like GTX 1060 in favor of FL12_2 only cards.

4A Games have already announced via DF that their next title will only run on HW with RT acceleration as their engine's lighting scheme has been moved fully towards ray tracing, so this right here is a confirmation that their next game won't be supported by GTX 1060 or any FL12_1 GPU for that matter (which even includes cards like 1650, 1660).
Oh so NOW you believe that developers will use sampler feedback streaming and other standard features of the XSX/S? For the longest time people such as yourself refused to believe there was any way to handle the memory of the XSS. I'm glad to hear you are agreeing more with Riky Riky and myself.

As I stated earlier MS puts all there games on both console and PC day 1 they are well aware that most PCs are not beating the XSS in terms of graphical features. So ignoring a huge base of support would not be wise. It will be a slow adoption before anything like the XSS becomes the minimum. I'd imagine we'd be half way through this generation or more before that happens. They aren't going to mandate PC gamers have a video card that is impossible to get.

Thank goodness for graphics scaling on PC. High end users will largely be unaffected. Seeing how games are still being made on the X1 I don't think you'd need to worry about the XSS baseline any time soon. Upping the minimum on CPU will do more for gaming regardless and XSS has that covered.
 

Bernd Lauert

Banned
Apr 15, 2018
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Only just read the full article.

Didn't realise that the XSS version was quite so bad.. knew about the 30fps patch but hadn't realised that the developers had to also tone down the graphics and introduce more pop-in to compensate.

Maybe it would get patched in the coming months - since there is such a big disparity between the versions - but it's further evidence that Jason Ronald shouldn't have made his rather unwise claim that users would be getting the exact same experience as the XSX albeit at a lower rendering resolution.

Hopefully they can at least bump it back to 60fps with some optimization.

Have the developers mentioned anything about XSS and whether it will get patched? They should probably say something. Rough.
 

Md Ray

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Oh so NOW you believe that developers will use sampler feedback streaming and other standard features of the XSX/S? For the longest time people such as yourself refused to believe there was any way to handle the memory of the XSS.
I never said otherwise, I've never said that devs WILL NOT be using any of those features on XSS/X, can you point me where I've said that?
 

Bernd Lauert

Banned
Apr 15, 2018
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Not sure what's up with you bud.

You keep saying you can spot trolling yet you've been banned like 5 times in the past year for trolling of all things, which includes a perm that you cried about.

Contrary opinions don't seem to sit well with you.
At this point you're just an amusing curiosity to me. I want to see how long it takes the mods to realize that you're constantly baiting and trolling with your Jason Ronald XSS shtick 🤭
 

dcmk7

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At this point you're just an amusing curiosity to me. I want to see how long it takes the mods to realize that you're constantly baiting and trolling with your Jason Ronald XSS shtick 🤭
You're reading too much into things.

If me writing about some of Jason Ronald's PR claims about the XSS performance upsets you or comes across as 'baiting' then that says an awful lot about you.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
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For the longest time people such as yourself refused to believe there was any way to handle the memory of the XSS.
This is Straw-men 101, who made this exact point?
It is fine to stop the XSS focused discussion earlier, but this is not a blanket licence to start making claims up out of thin air or continue to push the war from any angle.
 
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I was jumping through to get past the 30fps modes and got to 14:50. Wtf is DF doing, PS5 performance slaps XsX silly.
What I found is that In the performance mode it runs better on PS5 in combat heavy scenes with alphas, and it runs better on XSX in scenes with big landscape without any combat. There is roughly a tie (which is obviously not what DF concluded in their article). Again VGTech shows us the whole picture.
 

DarkMage619

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I never said otherwise, I've never said that devs WILL NOT be using any of those features on XSS/X, can you point me where I've said that?
Oh? So are you saying that the XSS has features to deal with the memory constraint you have complained about in the past? I don't recall you ever mentioning SFS as a solution. I only saw that you kept posting the old tweet from someone at ID complaining about the XSS before the system even came out. You posted THAT repeatedly. I must have simply missed your posts explaining that the XSS has features to deal with memory management. My apologies.

This is Straw-men 101, who made this exact point?
It is fine to stop on the XSS focused discussion earlier, but this is not a blanket licence to start making claims up out of thin air or continue to push the war from any angle.
It is a generality. The EXACT point shifts depending on the time of day and who is making the argument. People have claimed the XSS was on the same level as the Switch, claimed it would cause the end of console gaming, said it was 'holding back' innovation, had negative dev comments amplified and positive dev comments diminished or ignored, and has had unrealistic standards placed on it that more expensive non-Xbox consoles don't have to meet.

Please excuse that I didn't use an exact quote. With so much disingenuous nonsense being tossed towards the budget console, I lost track. It is funny you think that is war to reject false allegations and nonsense against the XSS though. Perhaps if I trash talked it like others have you'd have less of an issue?
 

Darsxx82

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Sep 18, 2021
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The fact that you worry and see the need to answer every criticism of your work clearly says that for you it is not just any Thursday but that it affects you a lot .... 😉

It is the difference between you respect DF, Vgtech and even "Elanalista". I don't see one of these going here to every criticism that have had much worse and even ban requests

A word of advice: Credibility is not earned by making "funny" appearances that applaud fans (which is clear why they are and Who you have to please) is earned at work. Learn from mistakes and work hard not to make them again 😉
 
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01011001

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I was jumping through to get past the 30fps modes and got to 14:50. Wtf is DF doing, PS5 performance slaps XsX silly.

and just moments before that the PS5 is 10fps below Series X... that's because you can't sync up everything perfectly and even small things like a slightly differently angled camera can have a noticeable effect on performance due to things that get drawn and loaded into memory that aren't drawn and loaded if you move the cam slightly differently

on average the SX version runs smoother, both consoles run like shit all things considered tho
 

dcmk7

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People have claimed the XSS was on the same level as the Switch
Quotes?

claimed it would cause the end of console gaming,
Can we see these quotes?

Should at the very least provide some evidence.. can't just keep making unsubstantiated claims over and over again.

I have a strong feeling you are just making this up. You was recently exposed for something similar.

Hope we see some evidence forthcoming but I highly doubt it.
 
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NXGamer

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The fact that you worry and see the need to answer every criticism of your work clearly says that for you it is not just any Thursday but that it affects you a lot .... 😉

It is the difference between you respect DF, Vgtech and even "Elanalista". I don't see one of these going here to every criticism that have had much worse and even ban requests

A word of advice: Credibility is not earned by making "funny" appearances that applaud fans (which is clear why they are and Who you have to please) is earned at work. Learn from mistakes and work hard not to make them again 😉
Listen to yourself for a moment, you are doing all the things you are telling others to not.

FACTS:

1) I never even covered this game
2) You kept bringing me into the conversation to deflect from DF.
3) I only saw this because Topher tagged me as you kept slagging me off (again I have nothing to do with this thread)
4) You keep saying all deserve respect (except me from your actions in this thread, so only the ones YOU deem) of which I agree and have not shown any contempt or negative connotations towards.
5) You did this repeatedly and without any cause or correlation, other than your dislike of me.

Word of advice, if you do not like my work, or anyone else's , simply move on and stop watching it. If you want to comment on work I have done in this thread, bring it up, but the content and context here, has nothing to do with me or anything I have produced, so stop fixating on me it is only showing your clear obsession.

Learn from your actions and try to practise what you so poorly preach, good day kind sir!
 
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DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
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Now do the touryst, that data is of interest to me.
Probably about the same, give or take, I'd imagine. Stuff like this is soooooooooo interesting to me. It's like a clamp test on an amplifier for me. (My true hobby is everything audio related, which I absolutely love)

These clamp tests will show how much power is being drawn, and can give conclusive answers on GPU performance. Ex: if both consoles are achieving the same framerates, why is one drawing more power than the other? Better efficiency? Is one pulling more power, but not being efficient, etc?
 

Md Ray

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Oh? So are you saying that the XSS has features to deal with the memory constraint you have complained about in the past? I don't recall you ever mentioning SFS as a solution
I have. In fact, I've mentioned it in a reply to your post once:
SFS's purpose is to use only parts of the textures a GPU requires for a scene when it needs as opposed to loading everything.
Btw, it was devs who complained about it, not me.