• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Analysis [DF] F1 2021: Xbox Series X|S and PS5

CRAIG667

Member
Jan 10, 2015
703
578
545
My god, he makes my skin crawl.
 

itxaka

Defeatist
Feb 21, 2007
11,446
0
1,445
Bioshock
Good, I bougth the Xbox version just in case, as feels to me that cross gen games have a higher chance of working as expected on the XSX. Now that its know that both work at stable 60/120 I migth double dip on teh PS5 version to test the controller stuff, everybody claims its good!

Also, I hope they keep updating it, there is still soo many issues with the game, including a stupid font rendering issue that makes the fonts look like crap on 4k...not sure if codemasters didnt have time but some of the bugs were terrible, at least they keep getting fixed
 

Dunnas

Member
Apr 20, 2019
75
109
240
Probably because you can't framerate count VRR.
You just get perfect performance, have so since launch of the consoles.
No, you could count the number of frames per second just fine. There just isn’t capture equipment that has vrr. That’s why they can only talk about whether vrr helps whwn playing with the console hooked straight up to the tv, and can’t actually show it.

That said, even if they could capture vrr footage, it wouldn’t look smooth anyway (when not hitting the target frame rate) when the footage is being played back at a set rate of 30/60 fps.
 
  • Triggered
Reactions: Riky

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
May 11, 2013
4,554
10,132
1,030
England
No, you could count the number of frames per second just fine. There just isn’t capture equipment that has vrr. That’s why they can only talk about whether vrr helps whwn playing with the console hooked straight up to the tv, and can’t actually show it.

That said, even if they could capture vrr footage, it wouldn’t look smooth anyway (when not hitting the target frame rate) when the footage is being played back at a set rate of 30/60 fps.

I've just said they can't count the impact of VRR🤣
 
  • Like
Reactions: rickybooby87

Lysandros

Member
Jul 28, 2020
1,130
3,997
370
Apparently the ship models (at the bottom) have lower number of polygons (hard edges at front) on XSX at 5:00. Maybe lod or tesselation related, a peculiar thing..
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr Moose

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
10,785
24,457
835
Re-read correctly Locuza tweets about it. RDNA2 ROPs have the same number of color ROPs but half the number of Z/stencil ROPs. XSX have cutdown ROPs compared to PS5. It is a fact and could explain plenty of odd framerate drops on XSX in some games compared to PS5.
Interesting.

PS5 has 16gig of uniform bandwidth ram which must also be simpler to manage than the 10/6 split on Xbox. If there were no compromises, Sony would have made such a cost saving move also no doubt.
 

rickybooby87

Member
Nov 2, 2020
466
1,545
380
I've just said they can't count the impact of VRR🤣

Not entirely true, If you have an LG Oled you can enable a debug menu that will show you the current refresh rate OSD style, not sure how low/high that can go, but that could give us some numbers in the future once Sony get's around to releasing some VRR support.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
May 11, 2013
4,554
10,132
1,030
England
Not entirely true, If you have an LG Oled you can enable a debug menu that will show you the current refresh rate OSD style, not sure how low/high that can go, but that could give us some numbers in the future once Sony get's around to releasing some VRR support.

That still doesn't show the impact of VRR, you can watch that counter and you don't see the framerate drops in game, point is you can still measure the framerate as usual but you can't measure the difference VRR makes, which is what I said originally.
 

Lysandros

Member
Jul 28, 2020
1,130
3,997
370
Interesting.

PS5 has 16gig of uniform bandwidth ram which must also be simpler to manage than the 10/6 split on Xbox. If there were no compromises, Sony would have made such a cost saving move also no doubt.
Still 448 GB/s of (unified) bandwidth was my biggest disappoitment in Road to PS5 reveal, i really expected 512 GB/s (unified). This would be especially good with the comparatively high pixel fillrate of the machine and PS5 would have higher bandwidth to teraflop ratio compared to XSX's 560GB/s-336GB/s setup.
 

Loope

Member
Dec 7, 2020
851
1,075
325
Completely agree! Dudes posted videos of the XSX smoking! I know not every platform gets the universal praise as PlayStation but there is no need to lie about other consoles. Plenty of space for all platforms to be successful.
Who? What?
 

SomeGit

Member
Apr 15, 2021
140
190
220
Just to point out something odd about F1 2021 that bothers me to no end. The menus are still capped at 30FPS on next gen, while they are not on PC.
It just bothers me that you get silky smooth UI on PC with much lower specced PCs while these machine that could easily render it at 60, just don't do it.
 

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
10,785
24,457
835
Still 448 GB/s of (unified) bandwidth was my biggest disappoitment in Road to PS5 reveal, i really expected 512 GB/s (unified). This would be especially good with the comparatively high pixel fillrate of the machine and PS5 would have higher bandwidth to teraflop ratio compared to XSX's 560GB/s-336GB/s setup.
Not certain we’ve seen PS5 suffer with bandwidth limitations - at least so far. Could be helped with the unique cache setup with the scrubbers, rubbers or whatever the tech was called, can’t remember.
 

assurdum

Member
Aug 14, 2020
3,864
6,643
545
Still 448 GB/s of (unified) bandwidth was my biggest disappoitment in Road to PS5 reveal, i really expected 512 GB/s (unified). This would be especially good with the comparatively high pixel fillrate of the machine and PS5 would have higher bandwidth to teraflop ratio compared to XSX's 560GB/s-336GB/s setup.
I still think the CUs number is the more and maybe only disappointing choice for the hardware. The difference with the series X is too wide for my tastes and no way faster frequency will solve any possible limitations about it.
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: Rivet

PropellerEar

Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,642
4,573
445
I still think the CUs number is the more and maybe only disappointing choice for the hardware. The difference with the series X is too wide for my tastes and no way faster frequency can cover such gap.
True XSS CU count is gravely concerning. :lollipop_anxious_sweat:
 

Lysandros

Member
Jul 28, 2020
1,130
3,997
370
Not certain we’ve seen PS5 suffer with bandwidth limitations - at least so far. Could be helped with the unique cache setup with the scrubbers, rubbers or whatever the tech was called, can’t remember.
To be clear i am not saying that PS5 is especially bandwidth limited or consider XSX's solution superior. But this would have been certainly beneficial for RT performance among other things and the presence of Tempest Engine. But yes, higher bandwidth caches and I/O-SSD should help the matter. I very much doubt that XSX has any real world bandwidth advantage over PS5 on whole system level.
 

Mr Moose

Member
Sep 10, 2013
6,814
15,074
985
England

It was a big viral moment early in the console' life. Of course it got debunked but it's crazy what some people will do to discredit a system.
Wasn't that one real and a transistor problem? I thought the other smoking one was fake. Or were they both fake? Or was that fake and the other real? :messenger_weary:
I just watched a video of this one, and this one is the fake one. The smoke starts to slow down/lessen after the video starts, that wouldn't happen.

It's like when dumbasses burn the plastic on their PS4 Pro/5s, like why? For likes on Twitter?

 
Mar 27, 2020
14,379
37,117
725
Uncharted bunghole
Wasn't that one real and a transistor problem? I thought the other smoking one was fake. Or were they both fake? Or was that fake and the other real? :messenger_weary:
I just watched a video of this one, and this one is the fake one. The smoke starts to slow down/lessen after the video starts, that wouldn't happen.

It's like when dumbasses burn the plastic on their PS4 Pro/5s, like why? For likes on Twitter?


Apparently one guy had the issue and contacted Xbox support about it. The others seeing the video imitated it with the vape smoke.

To make DarkMage619 DarkMage619 happy there were also PS5 that were DOA at launch. This is something that happens with every systems launch but only very few suffered it.

Marvel Balance GIF
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mr Moose

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Jun 1, 2013
9,089
4,283
850
But someone told me that the XSX is finally showing what its capable of...and consistently coming out on top in analysis....

:pie_thinking:

This cannot be..
 
  • Fire
Reactions: Rivet

Caio

Member
Jun 27, 2009
1,002
1,499
1,150
Rome
Still 448 GB/s of (unified) bandwidth was my biggest disappoitment in Road to PS5 reveal, i really expected 512 GB/s (unified). This would be especially good with the comparatively high pixel fillrate of the machine and PS5 would have higher bandwidth to teraflop ratio compared to XSX's 560GB/s-336GB/s setup.
As much as I like PS5 hardware, and fascinated by the talent of Mark Cerny, I'm still wondering why they opted for 448 GB/s instead of 512 GB/s. I believe they were not sure till last minute, but this is just my thought. That was the only missing thing to make PS5 'perfect'. What would be the extra cost to give the beast 512 GB/s of memory bandwidth ? Just wondering if it was feasible or not.
 

Tripolygon

Member
May 6, 2012
4,860
7,602
1,160
NYC
Wasn't that one real and a transistor problem? I thought the other smoking one was fake. Or were they both fake? Or was that fake and the other real? :messenger_weary:
I just watched a video of this one, and this one is the fake one. The smoke starts to slow down/lessen after the video starts, that wouldn't happen.

It's like when dumbasses burn the plastic on their PS4 Pro/5s, like why? For likes on Twitter?
Thanks for reminding me Gavin Stevens Gavin Stevens burned the side of his PS5 and claimed his PS5 was overheating and causing black discoloration on the white panel. How is your PS5 btw, still working? Lol
 
  • Like
  • LOL
Reactions: Md Ray and Mr Moose

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
42,203
44,995
1,310
39
Brazil
As much as I like PS5 hardware, and fascinated by the talent of Mark Cerny, I'm still wondering why they opted for 448 GB/s instead of 512 GB/s. I believe they were not sure till last minute, but this is just my thought. That was the only missing thing to make PS5 'perfect'. What would be the extra cost to give the beast 512 GB/s of memory bandwidth ? Just wondering if it was feasible or not.
Think a bit about… how much speed you need to the GDDR6 reach 512GB/s with 256bits?
16Gbps.

16Gbps is way more expensive than 14Gbps and nobody was taking the hit last year to use it… even nVidia choose to use 14Gbps in RTX 3070… 3080 and 3090 uses GDDR6X.

MS had to rely on a bigger bus 320bits with a unconventional setup to reach higher bandwidth… not taking the hit to use faster GDDR6 or even GDDR6X.

Cost is a real deal breaker here.
Chips got expensive with COVID-19 too.
 
Last edited:
  • Empathy
Reactions: Lysandros
Mar 27, 2020
14,379
37,117
725
Uncharted bunghole
He wanted to see Xbox on top. I delivered something fresh. I guess BC doesn't count though because uh reasons :messenger_smirking:

And why would you choose BC over a native app?

Seems like that's what your doing for some reason.

Would you prefer if developers focused on BC instead of native apps?

Seems like the only reason why you would want that is if you want that 77% advantage instead of the 20% advantage like you stated earlier.

Edit: My stance on this is that I prefer Native ports because that's better for both systems. And results have shown that to be the case.
 
Last edited:

Caio

Member
Jun 27, 2009
1,002
1,499
1,150
Rome
Think a bit about… how much speed you need to the GDDR6 reach 512GB/s with 256bits?
16Gbps.

16Gbps is way more expensive than 14Gbps and nobody was taking the hit last year to use it… even nVidia choose to use 14Gbps in RTX 3070… 3080 and 3090 uses GDDR6X.

MS had to rely on a bigger bus 320bits with a unconventional setup to reach higher bandwidth… not taking the hit to use faster GDDR6 or even GDDR6X.

Cost is a real deal breaker here.
Chips got expensive with COVID-19 too.
What a pity. I still think 512 GB/s is what PS5 deserved to be perfectly balanced. By the way, we will have PS5 PRO to overcome this :D and PS5 in its form is performing quite WELL.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
42,203
44,995
1,310
39
Brazil
What a pity. I still think 512 GB/s is what PS5 deserved to be perfectly balanced. By the way, we will have PS5 PRO to overcome this :D and PS5 in its form is performing quite WELL.
I hope we don't have more mid-gen upgrades :(
 

Caio

Member
Jun 27, 2009
1,002
1,499
1,150
Rome
I hope we don't have more mid-gen upgrades :(
I think mid-gen upgrades, longer consoles life cycle and plenty of BC games and cross-gen games in the beginning of the generation is kind of the new trend: the downside is a much less remarked generational leap and a very poor showcase of exclusives for the new consoles for at least 3 years from Launch. Back in the days of DreamCast/PS2/GameCube/XBox and PS360, you basically threw out the old consoles the same day you bought the new ones: D If you ask me, a part of me miss those days.
 
  • Thoughtful
  • Like
Reactions: Md Ray and ethomaz

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
3,499
6,691
1,635
And why would you choose BC over a native app?

Seems like that's what your doing for some reason.

Would you prefer if developers focused on BC instead of native apps?

Seems like the only reason why you would want that is if you want that 77% advantage instead of the 20% advantage like you stated earlier.

Edit: My stance on this is that I prefer Native ports because that's better for both systems. And results have shown that to be the case.
I thought the novel thing about the the Xbox BC solution was that it DOESN'T require developer involvement. Things like FPS boost and increased resolution were done without the developers having to go back and create a native app. To answer your question I'd prefer for developers to spend time working on new IP and new projects over going back to create a new app for an older game for the new console. It saves development time and manpower. I like the idea of a console playing games better than before and taking advantage of new hardware no matter what generation those games are from. It's a new concept for game consoles.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riky
Mar 27, 2020
14,379
37,117
725
Uncharted bunghole
I thought the novel thing about the the Xbox BC solution was that it DOESN'T require developer involvement. Things like FPS boost and increased resolution were done without the developers having to go back and create a native app. To answer your question I'd prefer for developers to spend time working on new IP and new projects over going back to create a new app for an older game for the new console. It saves development time and manpower. I like the idea of a console playing games better than before and taking advantage of new hardware no matter what generation those games are from. It's a new concept for game consoles.

I don't know I actually prefer that developers develop native apps over creating games for previous gen systems. BC limits what they have access to while native apps allow them to access a lot more of the consoles hardware.

I was actually talking about developers making native games over going back to the last gen systems and just using BC enhancements on current gen systems.

Anyone wanting developers to go with BC instead of Native Apps just want to see a bigger difference between the two platforms. With native apps both platforms are taken advantage of and that benefits both.
 
Last edited:

Lysandros

Member
Jul 28, 2020
1,130
3,997
370
By the way, why not a single word on loading times? Do we have any info on it from other sources?