• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

DF Direct: PlayStation 5 / Unreal Engine 5 Reaction - Now This Is Next-Gen!

Sota4077

Member
Apr 2, 2016
490
1,486
745
Every is a bold statement. Don't bet your life on it.

Actually it was italic......



Lame joke aside. Yes, there is always an outlier. But you're right. I stated that based on some games running better on Xbox One than PS4 currently which comes down to the XBox One having the better CPU while having a much less powerful GPU. And for a few games that made the difference. This time around the Xbox has the better CPU and GPU so I didn't think I was out of line.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: DrScissorsMD
Sep 1, 2019
195
355
265
We cannot say 100% because Epic nor Microsoft have said as much but it is entirely likely that this tech demo is possible on the Xbox Series X. This is going to come across console fanboyish and I do not intend for that. But Epic nor Sony ever went as far as to say that the demo was only possible on Playstation. The SSD helped make it possible. But they never said that only the Playstation SSD makes it possible. There were a lot of vagaries that did nothing to shut down the possibility that this demo could also run on Xbox Series X. Today was good for Playstation because they mentioned Playstation. There is no reason to believe until we're told otherwise that everything was saw is not possible on the Series X as well. Or PC for that matter.

I would get too enrapt by the demo. A lot of buzzwords are being used and it’s all talk and PR speak at this point, and I’m a PS fan. The XSX has a fast SSD too.
 

The Pleasure

Member
Jan 8, 2019
3,820
5,167
545
this demo would run better on Series X than what is shown here.

just letting you know... since... you know... they both use the same tech but one if them is just more powerful.

so this is 1440p30fps, just imagine it was around 1600p30fps and you got yourself the Series X version of this
I imagine your neckbeard crinkle as you post this with a sip of dew. Yessssss the series x would run this better
Ohhhhh yessss.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thelastword

Sota4077

Member
Apr 2, 2016
490
1,486
745
this demo would run better on Series X than what is shown here.

just letting you know... since... you know... they both use the same tech but one if them is just more powerful.

so this is 1440p30fps, just imagine it was around 1600p30fps and you got yourself the Series X version of this

You cannot say the definitively. If that last segment where she was flying through all that was being done by loading assets that fast essentially on the fly at a rate faster than the 2.4GB/s that the Xbox Series X can do then that part of the demo may very well not be possible on Series X. But it was also a tech demo so if it were a regular game it may not be possible on either console since there was no AI or any other game systems going on.
 

Guilhermegrg

Member
Dec 9, 2018
51
46
225
This really blew me away, I got excited just watching it. This could've been an episode of Mandalorian or something, that's how real it looks.

They used UE4 in the Mandalorian for the virtual backdrops during filming so... it's only going to get better from here.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Ailynn

sol_bad

Member
Jan 17, 2006
5,846
4,074
1,730
People need to get over 4K. It’s a marketing driven spec for normal-consumer displays. 1440p is more than decent for typical screen sizes and viewing distances.

This is especially true when AI upscaling tech (DLSS 2.0) is looking so promising right now.

There is actually a substantial difference when playing a game in 1440p and actual 4k when you are using a 55 inch 4k TV.
My laptop isn't super powerful and I can't play games in 4k (1070 GTX) but checking out Borderlands 2 and Apex Legends in 1440p and 4K ..... yeah, huge difference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fillup

smithg5

Member
Nov 4, 2014
273
378
455
There is actually a substantial difference when playing a game in 1440p and actual 4k when you are using a 55 inch 4k TV.
My laptop isn't super powerful and I can't play games in 4k (1070 GTX) but checking out Borderlands 2 and Apex Legends in 1440p and 4K ..... yeah, huge difference.

Maybe if you're sitting too close or have incredible vision.

Not to flex, but I've got a 65" 4k OLED and I would much rather play a game designed for 1440p60 on next gen hardware. You're literally doubling the number of pixels that need to be rendered at 4k for a difference that is not noticed by most people.

Designing your game with twice as much time to render each pixel will yield a much prettier result.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mister D

sol_bad

Member
Jan 17, 2006
5,846
4,074
1,730
Maybe if you're sitting too close or have incredible vision.

Not to flex, but I've got a 65" 4k OLED and I would much rather play a game designed for 1440p60 on next gen hardware. You're literally doubling the number of pixels that need to be rendered at 4k for a difference that is not noticed by most people.

Designing your game with twice as much time to render each pixel will yield a much prettier result.

I probably sat about 10 to 13 feet away from my TV and could notice the difference. 1440p just looks way softer than actual 4K.
If the PS5 and XSX can't push full 4k, I will no doubt build a new PC to ensure I can hit 4K but will probably wait a year or 2 for PC part prices to go down.
If PS5 and XSX can hit 4k, I don't see any need to buy a new PC at the moment.
 
Sep 19, 2017
1,434
1,769
565
France
It's next-gen because of the nanite technology. The lighting and textures are pretty much the same as this gen. Also, the PS5 running at 1440p/30FPS should tell you that it's still bandwidth constrained (as will the XSX). What I want to see is the nanite, 4k, ray-traced lighting and 60FPS. Something only an Ampere would probably be able to pull off - and that's a big MAYBE.
4k 30 fps what a deal!
 

thelastword

Member
Apr 7, 2006
11,731
11,926
2,000
People need to get over 4K. It’s a marketing driven spec for normal-consumer displays. 1440p is more than decent for typical screen sizes and viewing distances.

This is especially true when AI upscaling tech (DLSS 2.0) is looking so promising right now.
Relax, one demo at 1440p 30 fps does not mean PS5 will not deliver 4k or 60fps on most games....By launch, or in a year, this game can probably run at 4k or even 4k 60fps on PS5, it's still an early UE5 demo and I'm sure the engine will become more performant as we go along. For launch on PS5, you may even see more impressive games than this at 4k 60fps...…...or 4k 30fps.....It's just one reveal, there will be lots of 4k games to judge against this demo. Having said that, I take nothing away from this demo, at 1440p 30fps it looks better than all of what we saw last week at 4k 30fps or 60fps and yet quite a few of the demo's last week were not 4k or 60fps either, with much less impressive graphics....I think we can put this in perspective.....Days Gone 2 should look bonkers with this tech and you know they will heavily customize the engine to suit their game......That is, if they don't transition to Decima...

Man this little snippet and I cant wait to see what the graphics heavyweights do. ND, PD, SSM, San Diego, Guerilla, RAD, Bluepoint etc....It gives me lot of faith of how much more they will be able to do since they are first or second party.....ICE should be on FIRE right now with tech for next gen.....

I love the fact that now teraflops are not important. Native Resolution is not important. Wonder why?
They are all important, can you specify the differences in resolution between multiplats on PS5 vs Series X right now? NO, so we wait. The difference in resolution will be the smallest it has ever been in any generation, and many games will have the same 4k resolution between consoles. The PS5's SSD will hold it's leg up with better textures and texture streaming/asset loading, better load times and lod and that tech will be even more impressive in their first party titles...…..So for multiplats, you maybe seeing mostly 4k on both, but lets say XBOX has 2160p and PS5 has 2000p, yet textures are crisper on PS5 with less loadtimes and less in lod transitions, stuttering and artefacts....Which image do you think will be better?
 
Dec 29, 2018
3,881
11,240
745
Anyone else not too impressed with the character model? Didn’t look any better than what we have. Probably we’ve seen better actually.
Stood out a bit compared to the environment.
Notice the plasticy looking hair as well.
So about the only thing that wasn't that great about the demo was the character model.
 

vpance

Member
Jun 20, 2005
8,794
3,014
1,650
If this tens of millions of triangles on screen becomes a thing this gen then maybe the less CU but high clock approach was bang on in spotting the future trend in rendering engines. Never thought LODs or pixel shaders would become extinct overnight.
 

BiohazardX95

Member
Aug 12, 2014
64
209
485
There is actually a substantial difference when playing a game in 1440p and actual 4k when you are using a 55 inch 4k TV.
My laptop isn't super powerful and I can't play games in 4k (1070 GTX) but checking out Borderlands 2 and Apex Legends in 1440p and 4K ..... yeah, huge difference.
The consoles and the Tv's upscale content to 4k, you won't notice the difference unless you are too close to the screen.
 

Justin9mm

Member
May 9, 2018
1,474
1,093
375
Melbourne, Australia
what's so nextgen about this? still corridor and narrow af, still no ray tracing:


meh, same like this gen, but a few more polygons and better textures. that's it. not impressed at all.
Complains about nextgen showcase, watches in 1080p .. smh

Did you actually watch the full demo in 4K on a 4K display from Unreal Engine? Do you actually understand what they are saying about what they can now achieve?

Stick to playing games, not giving uneducated critical opinions.
 

Allandor

Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,133
858
405
Germany
Impressive demo. But it is still a demo. I'm really interested how big this ist with all those positional data on pixel/subpixel level. It is like a point cloud which is really really big. Would not be suprised if the PS5s ssd only contained that demo ^^.
 

noise36

Member
Nov 19, 2009
583
493
930
Ugh, 1440p? Yikes, maybe this isn't that impressive, then?

I was impressed!

But considering there is no AI on screen, its only rendering a small area for most of the demo (typical pretty game dev trickery), not even pushing 4K30 let alone 4K60, we need to temper out expectation for actual games.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Doncabesa

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
8,412
19,403
725
LOL. Thank you Sony? Jesus.

Everyone so quick to give Sony a pat on the back when it should be Epic getting the credit for this. You'd think this was Cerny himself showing this tech off as a 1st party technology by some of the comments in here.

Sony didn't make this tech demo. It's just running on their machine.
Next gen hardware makes this possible. And I suspect opening up the memory pipeline on PS5 cranks it to 11.

Epic always shows their tech in the best possible conditions and this time it’s the PS5 for these reasons.

Other studios, in particular Sony first party with will also exploit the hardware for some eye melting results.
 

Gamernyc78

Banned
Jun 11, 2018
5,812
15,321
655
Next gen hardware makes this possible. And I suspect opening up the memory pipeline on PS5 cranks it to 11.

Epic always shows their tech in the best possible conditions and this time it’s the PS5 for these reasons.

Other studios, in particular Sony first party with will also exploit the hardware for some eye melting results.

Thy have the top of the line ssd tht is a good margin better than next box and it was utilized not just for loading in this demo ppl don't seem to understand tht and want to paint this as an apple to apples situation. Both have fast ssds but one is way better hence tht demo probably would run better on PS5 although of course it would and could run on nextbox.
 
Last edited:
Sep 18, 2019
1,095
2,868
345
Actually it was italic......



Lame joke aside. Yes, there is always an outlier. But you're right. I stated that based on some games running better on Xbox One than PS4 currently which comes down to the XBox One having the better CPU while having a much less powerful GPU. And for a few games that made the difference. This time around the Xbox has the better CPU and GPU so I didn't think I was out of line.
You are mistaken. It has not the better GPU. It has higher total tflops. But a GPU is more than this. The CUs are just a part of the GPU.
 

thismeinteil

Member
Jan 6, 2020
370
975
300
When it comes to next gen DF head to head comparisons between XsX and PS5 will draw distance and LOD Pop-in be something they can “measure” like they do resolution and frame rate? I imagine the XsX’s SSD will be capable of showing off these features too but perhaps there will be differences, maybe XsX has higher resolution, maybe PS5 has better LOD pop-in? Or no?

I think we're going to see either more pop in on XBX or a little lower quality assets in games that are taking advantage of the streaming capabilities of the UE5 to mitigate pop in. Not only is the SSD XSX is using less than half the speed of the PS5's, we have no idea if MS has customized the I/O to take full advantage of that speed like Sony did.
 

smithg5

Member
Nov 4, 2014
273
378
455
I probably sat about 10 to 13 feet away from my TV and could notice the difference. 1440p just looks way softer than actual 4K.
If the PS5 and XSX can't push full 4k, I will no doubt build a new PC to ensure I can hit 4K but will probably wait a year or 2 for PC part prices to go down.
If PS5 and XSX can hit 4k, I don't see any need to buy a new PC at the moment.

According to this chart which is based on 20/20 vision:


You need to be 7 feet from a 55” display before you even BEGIN to notice 4K over 1080p. About 4 feet away to see the full benefit. (Full benefit of 1440p would be between those figures).
 
  • LOL
Reactions: fillup and Andodalf

smithg5

Member
Nov 4, 2014
273
378
455
Relax, one demo at 1440p 30 fps does not mean PS5 will not deliver 4k or 60fps on most games....By launch, or in a year, this game can probably run at 4k or even 4k 60fps on PS5, it's still an early UE5 demo and I'm sure the engine will become more performant as we go along. For launch on PS5, you may even see more impressive games than this at 4k 60fps...…...or 4k 30fps.....It's just one reveal, there will be lots of 4k games to judge against this demo. Having said that, I take nothing away from this demo, at 1440p 30fps it looks better than all of what we saw last week at 4k 30fps or 60fps and yet quite a few of the demo's last week were not 4k or 60fps either, with much less impressive graphics....I think we can put this in perspective.....Days Gone 2 should look bonkers with this tech and you know they will heavily customize the engine to suit their game......That is, if they don't transition to Decima...

Man this little snippet and I cant wait to see what the graphics heavyweights do. ND, PD, SSM, San Diego, Guerilla, RAD, Bluepoint etc....It gives me lot of faith of how much more they will be able to do since they are first or second party.....ICE should be on FIRE right now with tech for next gen.....

I don’t think you understood my post. I’m reacting to people upset that it is not 4K by suggesting 4K is actually not a good use of resources on a console over 1440p (I do think 60fps is pretty valuable though).
 

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
8,412
19,403
725
Thy have the top of the line ssd tht is a good margin better than next box and it was utilized not just for loading in this demo ppl don't seem to understand tht and want to paint this as an apple to apples situation. Both have fast ssds but one is way better hence tht demo probably would run better on PS5 although of course it would and could run on nextbox.
People focus on GPU. Ignorant to the fact the GPU is paired with what’s in memory. PS5 provides far in excess the available memory compared to XsX due to the entire subsystem being significantly faster. The result of this demo on XsX would be e.g. 1600p XsX vs 1440p but with reduced geometric variety on XsX.

1440p vs 1600p upscaled to 4K would be nowhere near as noticeable as the actual scene complexity offered by PS5.
 
Sep 18, 2019
1,095
2,868
345
People focus on GPU. Ignorant to the fact the GPU is paired with what’s in memory. PS5 provides far in excess the available memory compared to XsX due to the entire subsystem being significantly faster. The result of this demo on XsX would be e.g. 1600p XsX vs 1440p but with reduced geometric variety on XsX.

1440p vs 1600p upscaled to 4K would be nowhere near as noticeable as the actual scene complexity offered by PS5.
With the advanced temporal reconstruction they use here, you would barely notice a difference (of resolution, not reduced assets).
 
Last edited:

Dr Bass

Gold Member
Jun 6, 2013
1,000
2,808
815
If the SSD is really that important to the functioning of this tech, you have to figure Sony and Epic have been working on PS5 hand in hand for years, and knew exactly what they were doing. Seems like teraflops might not have been "all important" after all. Pretty wild twist if you ask me.
 

thelastword

Member
Apr 7, 2006
11,731
11,926
2,000
I don’t think you understood my post. I’m reacting to people upset that it is not 4K by suggesting 4K is actually not a good use of resources on a console over 1440p (I do think 60fps is pretty valuable though).
I understood, I just used your post to drive the point.....1440p that looks better than a 4K game is a win, but yet, PS5 may have many 4K games that will look better than this. So some are focusing entirely on the 1440p aspect of the game/demo and not the tech and how impressive the graphics is, yet with more time and optimizations such fidelity in UE5 can very well be upgraded to run at 4k or even 60fps on a PS5......So resolution is not the be all, how about having great tech first, then we can try to push rez further later with optimizations...….I think we agree here. I've seen so many 4k games which don't hold a candle to what we've seen here......And yes, I do think 60fps is important, tbh, I think we will see many impressive 4k 60fps games next gen....
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Mister D

Gamernyc78

Banned
Jun 11, 2018
5,812
15,321
655
please only speak for yourself-the difference between anything not native on my C9 is immediately noticeable and i sit about 7 feet from the display.

Yup when all those 1080p versus 900 p ppl came in telling me i couldn't see a diff I was laughing. I sit three feet away from my screen and any resolution difference is obvious. Thts utter bs.
 

Nethernova

Member
Oct 24, 2017
186
339
465
Yup when all those 1080p versus 900 p ppl came in telling me i couldn't see a diff I was laughing. I sit three feet away from my screen and any resolution difference is obvious. Thts utter bs.

To be fair, eyesight/noticing imperfections is extremely subjective. I have a friend who has nearly the same setup as me, and i checked out some games at his place one day and he had screen tearing and was running his desktop at 1440p and he thought everything was fine.

But then, even my wife will notice if im playing something with her (example, Control, running at 1440p, before the DLSS 2.0 patch, just set to 2k) and she thought it looked blurry. Commented on it.

So yeah, if you dont notice the shit, awesome. PLENTY others out there who will notice it, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

Banned
Jun 11, 2018
5,812
15,321
655
To be fair, eyesight/noticing imperfections is extremely subjective. I have a friend who has nearly the same setup as me, and i checked out some games at his place one day and he had screen tearing and was running his desktop at 1440p and he thought everything was fine.

But then, even my wife will notice if im playing something with her (example, Control, running at 1440p, before the DLSS 2.0 patch, just set to 2k) and she thought it looked blurry. Commented on it.

So yeah, if you dont notice the shit, awesome. PLENTY others out there who will notice it, though.

I know what u mean I quickly notice resolution differences but I'm not sensitive to 30/60 fps differences or frameoacing. I played Bloodborne to platinum and still never understood ppls frameoacing issues with the game 🤦‍♂️😂😂
 

The Shift

Banned
Sep 6, 2009
1,059
942
1,010
That looked really good - some very nice processes running in UE5. Was this running on a retail PS5 or a development kit?

Environment details are great but I thought the character model was bland and uninspired. This demonstration was specified to be gameplay - didn't really see much of that but for driving a character model around in 3rd person. What game is it?

IMO the scope, graphics performance and gameplay systems Star Citizen demonstrates running on available retail PC is still the the benchmark currently.
 

onQ123

Member
May 1, 2010
17,229
8,993
1,310
  • LOL
Reactions: DeepEnigma

KAL2006

Member
Feb 6, 2009
11,557
1,079
1,345
UK
I think those graphics are reachable within first year of PS5 release by a first party studio. Remember UE5 is a scalable engine, this demo was made by 2 dozen people, and was running in a old PS5 devkit.

Now imagine a Sony first party dev using a engine that takes advantage of PS5 made by a large development studio with 3 to 4 years of development time. Just remember inFamous Second Son and Killzone Shadowfall blew away last gen. This has made me more excited for Sony's showing.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Mister D

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
Apr 16, 2012
9,262
3,002
970
Melbourne, Australia
We don't know how far the geometric variety would really need to be reduced on XsX, if much at all. I don't believe that 2x the storage bandwidth will directly translate into 2x the geometric variety.

Funny thing about the hardware differences is you can cherry pick either way e.g. Sony SSD allows more texture/model/audio loading or MS Flops allows more real time deformation and animation/frame draws/resolution. In reality developers are going to target one core game release that runs on both+PC+BC, with some very minor heavy investment on specific features from a select few first parties or crazy platform specific Indies.
 
Last edited:

iHaunter

Member
Sep 6, 2015
2,401
2,141
550
what's so nextgen about this? still corridor and narrow af, still no ray tracing:


meh, same like this gen, but a few more polygons and better textures. that's it. not impressed at all.

Ray-Tracing is a waste of resources on consoles.
 

Andodalf

Member
Oct 20, 2013
5,459
8,070
885
23
Earth
According to this chart which is based on 20/20 vision:


You need to be 7 feet from a 55” display before you even BEGIN to notice 4K over 1080p. About 4 feet away to see the full benefit. (Full benefit of 1440p would be between those figures).

CRUCIAL NOTE: This is comparing Screens at their native res. Going sub native at any res has effects on your image regardless of range. An actually 1440p monitor might look the same as a 4k one at a certain distance, but a true 4k and 1440p might not. Obvioisly this is impacted by scaling quality, both of the resolution, and device doing the scaling.

We don't know how far the geometric variety would really need to be reduced on XsX, if much at all. I don't believe that 2x the storage bandwidth will directly translate into 2x the geometric variety.

This is the big thing. There's no reason to assume this demo taps out the PS5 IO. They talk about it running well on SSDs , and great on NVME (context says he must mean SATA for the first). Sata III tops out at 600mb/s as a theoretical limit, about a quarter of the raw speed we would expect from the nvme drive in the XSX. It's very possible the max IO speed needed for this game is a lot close to that 600 figure than 5,500. I'd expect there to be some concession, but probably only in the most taxing area, the speedy flying session. One interesting note is that with the number or rendered triangles being related to the number of pixels, raising the res would actually mean more I/O sped is needed, so a TF advantage for MS could give a slight negative effect here.

This all isn't to say that the extra speed isn't useful, but UE5 wasn't designed solely for the PS5, and neither was this demo. 1st party Sony games will ask even more of their SSD than this demo. 2x bandwith could be closer to a 2x improvement for some things, but UE5 doesn't seem to push that far yet.
 

smithg5

Member
Nov 4, 2014
273
378
455
CRUCIAL NOTE: This is comparing Screens at their native res. Going sub native at any res has effects on your image regardless of range. An actually 1440p monitor might look the same as a 4k one at a certain distance, but a true 4k and 1440p might not. Obvioisly this is impacted by scaling quality, both of the resolution, and device doing the scaling.

Yes, but the original topic was about whether 4K is beneficial over 1440p for most living rooms. Obviously running at native res or upscale quality can have a noticeable impact on the image at greater distances.

That said, rendering twice as many pixels doesn’t seem like an efficient solution to this problem. How about a checkerboard rendering or something like DLSS instead?
 

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
8,412
19,403
725
Directly from Sweeney, this demo is fundamentally a showcase of the PS5. He directly states it’s made possible by Sony’s I/o architecture. Anything from here will need to be downscaled...no surprises for those that took the time to comprehend what Sony was going for.

Tim Sweeney;

“Sony’s made another breakthrough that in many ways is more fundamental, which is a multi-order magnitude increase in storage bandwidth and reduction in storage latency.

The PS5 puts a vast amount of flash memory very, very close to the processor. So much that it really fundamentally changes the trade-offs that games can make and stream in. And that’s absolutely critical to this kind of demo,

This is not just a whole lot of polygons and memory. It’s also a lot of polygons being loaded every frame as you walk around through the environment and this sort of detail you don’t see in the world would absolutely not be possible at any scale without these breakthroughs that Sony’s made.”
 
Jan 29, 2019
5,535
5,893
495
Stood out a bit compared to the environment.
Notice the plasticy looking hair as well.
So about the only thing that wasn't that great about the demo was the character model.
The animation, water and motion blur were not that great either... I think it was put together fast and didn't have much polish, beyond the core tech that they wanted to show (lighting, very high density models, maybe sound).
Sweeney never says it will need to be downscaled on the XsX.
He's the guy I call when I'm not sure if something is not at native resolution on my 4K TV.