MasterCornholio
Member
I don’t think it’s going to lead to any meaningful difference. I don’t expect PS5 games to be unplayable towards the end of this generation while the XSX handles them just fine.
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DF: Cyberpunk 2077 Next-Gen Patch: The Digital Foundry Verdict
- Thread starter Arioco
- Start date
I don’t think it’s going to lead to any meaningful difference. I don’t expect PS5 games to be unplayable towards the end of this generation while the XSX handles them just fine.
Shmunter
Member
Does VRR help with < 30? Heard it’s not the case
DJ12
Member
And yet here you are arguing series x has a 10% advantage based on information you personally don't trust.
Go figure huh?!
Keep fighting the good fight, warrior.
NeonGhost
uses 'M$' - What year is it? Not 2002.
of course it will it will still eliminate any screen tearing
?
Did you just join the forum yesterday?
From speculation threads all the way up until the consoles launched....there was definitely an expectation from some folks.
Key word is some.
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DJ12
Member
Vrr doesn't even work below 40 fps on most if not all tvs.
Shmunter
Member
Probably depends on the TV set, from quick Google seems 40/48 is the commonly lowest framerate VRR can assist with
Lysandros
Member
I edited the original post, there is a section where XSX drops to 29 FPS for some time but the same section is not present on the PS5 comparison. Tom sounded somewhat ambiguous on second viewing, i am not sure if PS5 has the performance advantage in RT mode anymore. A single frame drop is rather minor, it shouldn't make that much of a difference with VRR or not i think. With that i think i need a break.
Edit: Still, previously NXgamer in his analysis indicated a completely locked performance on PS5 in 30 FPS RT mode while he found some stutters/one frame drops on XSX while driving. At 5:45 onward one can see the drops to 29 FPS.
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NeonGhost
uses 'M$' - What year is it? Not 2002.
my lg c1 can handle all the way down to 20 (edit)
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JackMcGunns
Member
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Lol who said anything about ps5 games being unplayable.
But the xsx has shown 33% more pixels on some games, which is not trivial, but we have seen PS5 games also have more pixels then the xsx, however that has not happened for a while, but we are seeing ps5 having better framerates somtimes so that muddys the waters a bit. Overall I would say the Xsx is still the better performer, but weather that is meaningful or not is subjective, so theres no point in arguing about it.
Shmunter
Member
Thats amazing. No wonder they say the lg oleds are the way to go for gamers. There really should be a definitive list on which sets are best sold alongside Xbox as it’s a spec minefield with all manner of variations.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Pretty weird to focus on the minority, in this case.
MasterCornholio
Member
The problem here is that your saying some games and not all games. Which is why it’s trivial. Unlike Pro vs X for example.
![[Sigma]](/data/avatars/m/701/701747.jpg?1685439978){kind=avatar}
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
No most others do not have it/working properly.
ethomaz
Banned
People seems to forget no TV in the market has VRR without issues.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Do you really think that game companies completely rewrite their graphics engines just because a console comes out that barely has enough bandwidth to push 1440p pixels? Why wouldn't a full RT lighting pipeline NOT be considered next-gen if every console out can't run it? Or do you think if the graphics engine was made around the next-gen consoles that you'd get 4k/60FPS with full RT lighting???The funny thing is you're serious
But nah not even close, the PC version is last gen game with Ray Tracing nothing more.
You can't really point to the last gen consoles looking and playing like shit as proof of it being "NEXT GEN", because all versions was realised in a shit state
I'm curious if The Witcher 3 will be a better upgrade
I have my doubts.
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Alter_Fridge
Member
akaFullmetal
Member
Nice increase for all. Again same story, little better fps on PlayStation and a little better rez on Xbox. However, it's splitting hairs, good on both.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
No I think it's an unoptimized, unfinished outdated engine being pushed to deliver something a better more optimized and current gen feature rich engine could do better.
And their next game will probably prove this.
As for Ray Tracing being NextGen
GTAV can have Ray Tracing on PC with mods.
Is that Nextgen to you?
Because I doubt it will look it when we can finally put GTAVI next to it.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Well 10fps difference| Dual Sense>100 lines difference
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
But then I go on to say its subjective.
There were also some pro/1x games which had parity.
So weather its 80% of the games which are better or 40% it depends on the individual if its meaningful or not.
rnlval
Member
PC RDNA 2 such as RX 6800/6900 series has both wide and high clock speeds.
HDMI Licensing Administrator has allowed HDMI 2.0a/2.0b to be marketed as HDMI 2.1.
From https://tftcentral.co.uk/articles/when-hdmi-2-1-isnt-hdmi-2-1
“Fake HDMI 2.1” and the Start of the Confusion
The display that prompted this investigation was from Chinese manufacturer mi.com, and was their so-called “Xiaomi Fast LCD Monitor 24.5-inch 240Hz version“. This is a 24.5” sized display with a 1080p resolution and 240Hz refresh rate. At the bottom of their product page they list inclusion of 2x HDMI 2.1 ports:
However, beneath that at the bottom of the page hidden in the terms and conditions they then say the following (translated): “Due to the subdivision of HDMI certification standards, HDMI 2.1 is divided into TMDS (the bandwidth is equivalent to the original HDMI 2.0 and FRL protocols). The HDMI 2.1 interface of this product supports the TMDS protocol, the maximum supported resolution is 1920×1080, and the maximum refresh rate is 240Hz.”
What Does the HDMI 2.1 Certification Actually Require? Not a Lot it Seems
We contacted HDMI.org who are the “HDMI Licensing Administrator” to ask some questions about this new standard, seek clarification on several questions we had and discuss the Xiaomi display we mentioned above. Here is what we were told:
- HDMI 2.0 no longer exists, and devices should not claim compliance to v2.0 as it is not referenced anymore
- The features of HDMI 2.0 are now a sub-set of 2.1
- All the new capabilities and features associated with HDMI 2.1 are optional (this includes FRL, the higher bandwidths, VRR, ALLM and everything else)
- If a device claims compliance to 2.1 then they need to also state which features the device supports so there is “no confusion”
HDMI 2.1 is meaningless.
Video Electronics Standards Association (VESA)'s Display Port is a better certification standard.
NVIDIA's RTX Ampere has the "Full HDMI 2.1" 48 GBps including all the optional features. AMD's PC RDNA 2 and Xbox Series X are second best with HDMI 2.1" 40 GBps including most of the optional features.
From https://www.hdmi.org/spec/hdmi2_1
HDMI Licensing Administrator defined HDMI 2.1A
HDMI Specification HDMI 2.1a feature highlights include:
- Higher video resolutions support a range of high resolutions and faster refresh rates including 8K60Hz and 4K120Hz for immersive viewing and smooth fast-action detail. Resolutions up to 10K are also supported for commercial AV, and industrial and specialty usages.
- Dynamic HDR support ensures every moment of a video is displayed at its ideal values for depth, detail, brightness, contrast and wider color gamuts—on a scene-by-scene or even a frame-by-frame basis.
- Source-Based Tone Mapping (SBTM) is a new HDR feature that allows a portion of the HDR mapping to be performed by the Source device instead of the Display device. SBTM is especially useful in cases where HDR and SDR video or graphics are combined together into a single picture, such as picture-in-picture or a program guide with an integrated video window. SBTM also enables PCs and gaming devices to automatically produce an optimized HDR signal in order to maximize the utilization of the display’s HDR capabilities without manual user configuration of the Source device.
- The Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable supports the 48G bandwidth for uncompressed HDMI 2.1a feature support. The cable also features very low EMI emission and is backwards compatible with earlier versions of the HDMI Specification and can be used with existing HDMI devices.
- eARC simplifies connectivity, provides greater ease of use, and supports the most advanced audio formats and highest audio quality. It ensures full compatibility between audio devices and upcoming HDMI 2.1a products.
- Enhanced gaming features ensure an added level of smooth and seamless motion and transitions for gaming, movies and video. They include:
- Variable Refresh Rate (VRR) reduces or eliminates lag, stutter and frame tearing for more fluid and better detailed gameplay.
- Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM) allows the ideal latency setting to automatically be set allowing for smooth, lag-free and uninterrupted viewing and interactivity.
- Quick Frame Transport (QFT) reduces latency for smoother no-lag gaming, and real-time interactive virtual reality.
- Quick Media Switching (QMS) for movies and video eliminates the delay that often occurs when a device changes from one HDMI frame rate to another.
- HDMI Cable Power enables active HDMI Cables to be powered directly from the HDMI Connector, without attaching a separate power cable. This makes attaching and using active HDMI Cables as easy as using passive, wired HDMI Cables.
HDMI 2.1a Feature Names
What are the HDMI 2.1a marketing feature names and their acronyms?- Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable
- Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM)
- Enhanced Audio Return Channel (eARC)
- Quick Frame Transport (QFT)
- Quick Media Switching (QMS)
- Variable Refresh Rate (VRR)
- 4K100A
- 4K100AB
- 4K100B
- 4K120A
- 4K120AB
- 4K120B
- 8K50A
- 8K50AB
- 8K50B
- 8K60A
- 8K60AB
- 8K60B
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Hawk269
Member
One thing that many of us are missing is that this game is a port of the last gen to the current gen. Can you imagine what it would look like if it was made from the ground up for the PS5/Series X? They clearly made some great strides to take advantage of the new systems, but at the end of the day this is not a ground up native PS5/Series X game.
Hawk269
Member
It depends on what TV and what the VRR range is. VRR only works if it's within it's frame rate range. So if the range of VRR is between 40fps and 120fps, VRR will engage and smooth things out. If the is below the "min" range it does not do much at all.
akaFullmetal
Member
Well yeah, but just that market location, while the rest of the game it's pretty much the same. I get what you're saying though, dual sense is cherry on top.
Hawk269
Member
Not for me. I enjoy gaming on the PS5 but I really don't like the Duel Sense controller. It is fine, but just does not feel right for me. I know some really like it and that is great, we all have our own opinions/preferences when it comes to controllers. In playing the PS5 version with the DS, I did not feel the features of the DS gave it that much of a difference.The real winner of the patch is
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
No the drive scenes are also more solid on PS5.
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
How many sets have a VRR range with a lower bound that low (or implement LFC)?
We are talking about a minority of a minority, if anything at all.
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Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Im inclined to agree with you. The DualSense implementation in this game is very enjoyable.The real winner of the patch is
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Most VRR use cases are for 60 or 120 hz games anyway.
NeonGhost
uses 'M$' - What year is it? Not 2002.
What’s your point
The real winner of the patch is
Agreed. This game's gunplay was already surprisingly good but Dualsense make it far more enjoyable.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
This is such a weird question. I don't mean this in a derogatory way, just categorically speaking. I'm not sure if you're saying the console can't achieve native 1440p in any game or if you're specifically referring to CP2077.
If the former, then you are objectively incorrect.
If the latter, then you are highlighting a key reason why developers should redesign key aspects of their engines to take advantage of the bandwidth efficiencies of the new consoles.
MasterCornholio
Member
The real winner of the patch is
Love the controller. It’s a shame it isn’t better supported on PC though.
Dr.D00p
Gold Member
Even though I only play CP 2077 on my PC (9900K & RTX 3080FE) I decided to give this a watch out of curiosity and couldn't believe my ears when he said that there is no RT Reflections on the PS5/XSX versions. That's appalling, IMO.
RT Reflections are what make the game visually shine, especially during night time scenes.
RT Reflections are what make the game visually shine, especially during night time scenes.
Riky
$MSFT
If you carry on through the thread I use the example of Titanfall on 360 Vs Xbox One where in similar scenes the 360 outperforms X1 framerate wise at lower resolution and settings, that's what I was talking about and I also say it would be the same with Series X not just PS5.
Rabid fanboys just ignore that though as it doesn't suit their baiting.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
It took them a year to get the console version at this state, asking them to optimize the engine and rendering pipeline that they added reflections, or god forbid RTGI, would have taken another couple of years.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Had I known this comment of yours was a recurring gag, I wouldn't have piled on. However I don't think you're doing yourself any favors with the statements above.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The two versions look nearly identical. Nitpicking about the technical differences for research purposes is one thing, but getting emotional about it when the vast majority of normies won't even be able to tell the difference between them is a waste of time and effort.
Team Andromeda
Member
That's the biggest letdown in the patch really, otherwise the game is fantastic and looks incredible
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
LG Oleds which are the biggest selling gaming oled go down to 20fps and they are selling tons of them.
the 55 inch is like 899 in the uk now. They are more affordable than ever. I really don’t buy this argument that no One has a VRR tv in 2022. Sony needs to deliver what they promised.
saying that, these consoles are closer than any generation before which is amazing. Once they are at feature parity with stuff like VRR we all win.
If you don’t have a VRR tv I say the ps5 takes this one. I’m playing on Xbox and it’s now a great experience, CD PR are getting there and I think with more work we can get to a more or less locked 60 on both. They are known for patching their games for years. Witcher 3 had crazy issues at first on consoles with framerate, especially PS4 And they fixed it.
IlGialloMondadori
Member
I agree with this. It looks good on PCs with full bore raytracing, the lighting looks amazing, but the models are pretty iffy at times, everyone looks plasticky (yeah, okay, cyberpunk, maybe it's their plastic surgery/mods, but...ehh), the animation and lip synching is often very poor, and lots of things are just, like, very square/boxy. It really feels to me while playing it on high end PC or the next gen patch like something like Perfect Dark Zero, where they're on a creaking engine and design ideas and they just slather on a load of new effects. The clubs, etc, it looks like Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines - poorly animated dancers, etc, kind of bad models. I love that game, btw, so Cyberpunk scratches a certain itch.
