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[Timberwolf25]

Game is triple buffered vsync according to Remedy. There is no tearing.

 

[ethomaz]

Game is triple buffered vsync according to Remedy. There is no tearing.

The video shows tearing lol

BTW VSync doesn’t work wit uncapped fps.

 

[Md Ray]

yes it isn't translating to gameplay as they capped it to 30fps.

Why exactly do you think they did that?

Because an unlocked frame-rate would have produced extremely wild fluctuations - while yes it's 60fps in other scenes - it's already borderline 30fps here on both. And a massive 30fps to 60fps fluctuations would have been a terrible experience even with VRR. So the 30fps cap was a good call.

Those near-identical 33fps vs 32fps above is also one of the reasons why XSX doesn't get higher settings over PS5, because if it did, like in Hitman 3, the frame-rate on Series X would have been worse than PS5 (even if those drops were occurring in "one level").

 

[Timberwolf25]

The video shows tearing lol

BTW VSync doesn’t work wit uncapped fps.

I'll quote Dictator from another forum here.

"For this video I used a 0 compression scan to generate the framerate data - with 0 compression it cannot say the framerate is higher than the individual change in single pixels between images. It will not say the framerate is higher than it actually is unless the game is outputting a dithered output (playstation 5 does this unless you set the console to 4:2:0 limited). If I had used a 1 or 2 pixel image compression scan, then what could happen is that the framerate is registered as being lower than it actually is as small differences between frames are not being registered due to the pixel scan resolution. There is no tearing in control on console as the game uses a triple buffered vsync - at least that is what remedy has said. What happens when the game turns on photomode is that the game loses the internal 30 fps cap, not that vsync is turned off. The game is still syncing to the display.
Some of the game's screen buffer distortion affects when you run the camera through them and they intersect with the camera may look like screen tears."

So believe who you will.

 

[ethomaz]

I'll quote Dictator from another forum here.

"For this video I used a 0 compression scan to generate the framerate data - with 0 compression it cannot say the framerate is higher than the individual change in single pixels between images. It will not say the framerate is higher than it actually is unless the game is outputting a dithered output (playstation 5 does this unless you set the console to 4:2:0 limited). If I had used a 1 or 2 pixel image compression scan, then what could happen is that the framerate is registered as being lower than it actually is as small differences between frames are not being registered due to the pixel scan resolution. There is no tearing in control on console as the game uses a triple buffered vsync - at least that is what remedy has said. What happens when the game turns on photomode is that the game loses the internal 30 fps cap, not that vsync is turned off. The game is still syncing to the display.
Some of the game's screen buffer distortion affects when you run the camera through them and they intersect with the camera may look like screen tears."

So believe who you will.

He tried to damage control actual screen tearing in the render? lol

Anyway VSync doesn’t work with uncapped framerate... no matter what Bathallia is smoking. VSync itself caps the framerate if working.

VSync on = capped framerate
VSync off = uncapped framerate

Remedy is probably using a VSynced 30fps buffer in gameplay... it got disabled when in Photo Mode so the framerate get variable/uncapped.

 

[Md Ray]

The video shows tearing lol

BTW VSync doesn’t work wit uncapped fps.

Can you point out where the tearing is happening, I honestly couldn't see it, or maybe I'm blind.

EDIT: Found it. It's at the very top. Probably a glitch like the occasional frame-pacing problem happening on both PS5/XSX.

 

[Fredrik]

Yes I've played it.....so have they. And still they went and lied ....told the masses that they were identical when it was not......I make a video pointing it out.....you mad for some reason....lol it's like you mad that I told the truth and made a real analysis video for gamers to see the truth....proof and all!

Nah I’m not mad at all, I’m amused. Remember that I’m not the one calling the devs liars and spending time making an analysis video of an analysis video to prove that some tiny screws or whatever aren’t the same in paused scenes from a photo mode.

And this isn’t really my fight, I’m playing the PC version at highest settings. It’s nice.

I just find this weird GPU benchmark interesting since it’s possibly the first one yet on consoles. All we had prior to this was paper specs GPU power. Now we see the GPU power for real. It’s cool.
Kinda shows how weak the consoles are though compared to PCs but it’s still interesting imo.

Btw, have you tried replicate a scene yet? Post a screen dump when you’re done.

 

[MasterCornholio]

when you look at games like god of war which looks amazing and how slow HDD were then factor how much data was streamed, I think the 6gbs per second won’t be utilised this gen. as I said it’s always good to have over head. Now something like Gran turismo may do that depending how the game is built as that can have a lot of detail and textures around a track but again look what was produced last gen

Unless your trying to do something crazy like Insomniac is.

I'm pretty sure Sony will do everything possible to convince people on why having such a fast I/O is a good thing.

 

[ethomaz]

Unless your trying to do something crazy like Insomniac is.

I'm pretty sure Sony will do everything possible to convince people on why having such a fast I/O is a good thing.

Well look at NiOh... not a Sony game with loadings at under 1s.

It makes you question multiplatform development.

 

[Md Ray]

Anyway VSync doesn’t work with uncapped framerate... no matter what Bathallia is smoking. VSync itself caps the framerate if working.

Not necessarily. If your display refresh rate is 60Hz and you engaged VSync - and the game happens to fluctuate between 30-60fps then there won't be any screen tearing unless you disable VSync.

 

[phil_t98]

Unless your trying to do something crazy like Insomniac is.

I'm pretty sure Sony will do everything possible to convince people on why having such a fast I/O is a good thing.

I agree but there is a loading screen there of a second or 2 but very impressive, we also seen similar on The Medium on xbox with the change of assets in a plot second. its different to what racchet is doing but very cool also

 

[MasterCornholio]

Well look at NiOh... not a Sony game with loadings at under 1s.

It makes you question multiplatform development.

Spoiler: Digital Foundry NiOh Load time analysis

NiOh through BC from an external: 18 Seconds

NiOh through BC from the internal : 10 Seconds

Native PS5 version of NiOh: 1.10 seconds

Pretty big difference if you ask me.

 

[Negotiator101]

He tried to damage control actual screen tearing in the render? lol

Anyway VSync doesn’t work with uncapped framerate... no matter what Bathallia is smoking. VSync itself caps the framerate if working.

VSync on = capped framerate
VSync off = uncapped framerate

Remedy is probably using a VSynced 30fps buffer in gameplay... it got disabled when in Photo Mode so the framerate get variable/uncapped.

Come on man you've had an explanation, let it go.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I agree but there is a loading screen there of a second or 2 but very impressive, we also seen similar on The Medium on xbox with the change of assets in a plot second. its different to what racchet is doing but very cool also

Isn't the Medium running two different versions at once on Xbox?

Not exactly anywhere near the same thing as Ratchet is doing. The worst thing about the Medium is the hit to resolution due to running two different states at once. Ratchet isn't going to do that but I stead will just load the assets on the fly. Again nowhere near the same thing.

Edit: Curiously what the Medium is doing is very similar to what Titanfall did.

 

[ethomaz]

Not necessarily. If your display refresh rate is 60Hz and you engaged VSync - and the game happens to fluctuate between 30-60fps then there won't be any screen tearing unless you disable VSync.

If you assume Remedy changed the VSync from 30fps to 60fps in Photo Mode instead of a “bug” like Battalhia is guessing.

Even so you will have stutter to 30fps when the framerate is not 60fps. VSync 60fps makes the framerate go 30fps when not 60fps.

So it impossible the VSync is enabled in a variable framerate like the video shows. In simple terms with VSync on every time the framerate is not 60fps it will lock to 30fps.

Weird because DF already faced that situation when VSynced 60fps game drops to 30fps sometimes with PS4 games... VSync won’t allow 50, 40, 52, 44, etc framerates... only multiple of 60 in a 60Hz screen like 60, 30, 20, 15, etc.

 

[vpance]

From that B3D thread

If the algorithm used to analyse the frame rate can't detect tearing then a duplicate frame immediately after a torn frame will be registered as unique as the pixels above the tear line on the previous frame will be different to those pixels on the current frame. I've uploaded an image here that demonstrates this where the white pixels are different compared to the previous frame and the black pixels are the same.

Paging NXGamer . I think his video analysis tools handle torn frames footage better.

 

[FatKingBallman]

No,he didn't. Sony fanboys as always trample all over any thread that isn't giving an advantage to PS5, even though plenty of people said it was interesting although does not invalidate the findings of the first DF video. The first few pages is riddled with triggered Sony fanboys, just like the 1st few pages of the Nintendo thread about Japan sales or the thread comparing a pc to a ps5. And they're always the same group

Yes, he did. And Concern is doing exactly what he said.

Do you have the ability to read what he wrote?
It is clear to everyone that the cpu is not at stake in this test carried out by DF but lance also says:

"so this is basically just a fantastic measurement of the differential in pure graphics hardware at play here. Really cool test."
It literally say what it say and it's different from what you saying
But clearly You can bend and spin it to make it better for you warrior

Calling me a warrior, lol. WTF are you then?

DF benchmark is about Ray Tracing, SPECIFICALLY. Maybe next time will be benchmark about texture fill rate specifically.

Of course it's clear to everyone here that CPU can't be a bottleneck, but Alex directly pointed out it is a possible bottleneck for XSX, which it CAN'T be at all and Lance referred to that. Alex shold knew that and not made a question "a possible CPU bottleneck?" Of course everyone will mock him across the net. Regarding GPU, Lance just pointed put how Photomode is great for GPU benchmark and benchmark can be done for specific GPU applications, in this case Ray Tracing.

 

[ethomaz]

From that B3D thread



Paging NXGamer . I think his video analysis tools handle torn frames footage better.

Batalhia in the past said their tools doesn’t work with tearing imagens so he had to manually do all the work in AC Vanalla.
It is just weird he doesn’t noticing the image where it was tearing in that comparison.

 

[phil_t98]

Isn't the Medium running two different versions at once on Xbox?

Not exactly anywhere near the same thing as Ratchet is doing. The worst thing about the Medium is the hit to resolution due to running two different states at once. Ratchet isn't going to do that but I stead will just load the assets on the fly. Again nowhere near the same thing.

Edit: Curiously what the Medium is doing is very similar to what Titanfall did.

Their is a scene where your being chased and it swaps between the two setting instantly

 

[FatKingBallman]

Isn't the Medium running two different versions at once on Xbox?

Core of the scene is the same on both shared screen, same building structure and environment, but with different assets, lighting, and other underlying graphical effects.

 

[phil_t98]

Isn't the Medium running two different versions at once on Xbox?

Not exactly anywhere near the same thing as Ratchet is doing. The worst thing about the Medium is the hit to resolution due to running two different states at once. Ratchet isn't going to do that but I stead will just load the assets on the fly. Again nowhere near the same thing.

Edit: Curiously what the Medium is doing is very similar to what Titanfall did.

I mean this one

 

[MasterCornholio]

I mean this one

The Medium still seems to be switching between the two states but the overall structure is the same. Definitely not as crazy as the sequence in Ratchet.

 

[phil_t98]

The Medium still seems to be switching between the two states but the overall structure is the same. Definitely not as crazy as the sequence in Ratchet.

you can see the trees are going the walking monsters and stuff, not a straight assist swap as such.

 

[Fredrik]

Anyway VSync doesn’t work with uncapped framerate... no matter what Bathallia is smoking. VSync itself caps the framerate if working.

VSync on = capped framerate
VSync off = uncapped framerate

Remedy is probably using a VSynced 30fps buffer in gameplay... it got disabled when in Photo Mode so the framerate get variable/uncapped.

I won’t say that you’re wrong because I might misinterpret you, but this is how I’ve learned that vsync is working:

With vsync on the console/PC won’t push out a new frame until the TV/screen is ready to deal with the next one, it’ll be a queue or sorts. That’s why you see a judder if a new frame isn’t ready when the TV/screen is, a frame will be shown twice.
It’ll be: 12344567 etc

With vsync off the console/PC will push out a new screen no matter if the TV/screen is ready or not.
It’ll be: 12345678 etc, but it can still look like crap since one image can consist of two or even three frames.

So vsync on doesn’t mean that you can’t have an uncapped framerate below 60fps on a 60hz vsynced display, it just means that it’ll look like crap since all screen updates won’t have a new frame, some will be doubled. And all the double frames 12334556 etc will be a noticeable judder.

This is where VRR does it’s magic btw, this is what Riky is clearly enjoying and the rest of us are jelaous of. With VRR activated the TV will take care of the next frame as soon as it gets a new one no matter what. Even at fluctuating 51 to 57fps it’ll be: 12345678 etc, the TV will have a smooth judder free 51-57hz frame update.
Gsync works the same way.

 

[Haggard]

when you look at games like god of war which looks amazing and how slow HDD were then factor how much data was streamed, I think the 6gbs per second won’t be utilised this gen. as I said it’s always good to have over head. Now something like Gran turismo may do that depending how the game is built as that can have a lot of detail and textures around a track but again look what was produced last gen

How many "look at this tunnel/narrow gap in the rock/FOV narrowing for whatever reasons"-moments have there been in the last AAA titles of the last gen?
Too many to count...and those have always been due to the slow HDDs.
You couldn`t even have 2 completely heterogeneous sets of assets in a single scene last gen, because the HDD could not have kept up with the players FOV movement. The size per asset was always severly limited because swapping on the go was not an option.

You seriously underestimate the jump in the maximal possible scene diversity and scope the new machines`s I/O offer.
The limit for the foreseeable time will be the developer`s budget.

 

[MasterCornholio]

you can see the trees are going the walking monsters and stuff, not a straight assist swap as such.

Seems very limited compared to what Ratchet is doing. I honestly can't say they are handling the transitions in the same way.

 

[FatKingBallman]

Less than half as much as you have. Whataboitisms are great aren't they?

Yes, less than a half. But that doesn't stop you to count posts posted by others, since you are doing that in every Xbox vs PS thread. Yes, so much whataboutism

 

[DJ12]

Come on man you've had an explanation, let it go.

Only the image blatantly shows a tear across the entire screen at the top so Alex's explanation really doesn't wash.

 

[phil_t98]

Seems very limited compared to what Ratchet is doing. I honestly can't say they are handling the transitions in the same way.

the difference is what xbox is doing is instant where as with ratchet it has a loading screen. both are good

 

[MasterCornholio]

the difference is what xbox is doing is instant where as with ratchet it has a loading screen. both are good

So your saying the Xboxs I/O is faster?

Do you know why it's instant on Xbox?

 

[phil_t98]

So your saying the Xboxs I/O is faster?

Do you know why it's instant on Xbox?

con your saying ratchet is doing more, and I said that's where there is a1 to2 second animation which is the loading screen

 

[MonarchJT]

Yes, he did. And Concern is doing exactly what he said.



Calling me a warrior, lol. WTF are you then?

DF benchmark is about Ray Tracing, SPECIFICALLY. Maybe next time will be benchmark about texture fill rate specifically.

Of course it's clear to everyone here that CPU can't be a bottleneck, but Alex directly pointed out it is a possible bottleneck for XSX, which it CAN'T be at all and Lance referred to that. Alex shold knew that and not made a question "a possible CPU bottleneck?" Of course everyone will mock him across the net. Regarding GPU, Lance just pointed put how Photomode is great for GPU benchmark and benchmark can be done for specific GPU applications, in this case Ray Tracing.

So after one hounded messages are you finally agree with me that the cpu cannot be a bottleneck and that the test is 1 excellent test for real performance in this specific case about a game that run also ray tracing an effect that will be used practically in most next gen games). okay perfect then.

 

[MasterCornholio]

con your saying ratchet is doing more, and I said that's where there is a1 to2 second animation which is the loading screen

Well Ratchet is loading several different worlds while the Medium is switching between two. The reason why it's instant with the Medium is because they are running two different states at once. Ratchet is literally building each world with the transitions. Technically the XSX can do the same but the loading will take longer. This is just looking at paper specifications mind you.

 

[Physiognomonics]

con your saying ratchet is doing more, and I said that's where there is a1 to2 second animation which is the loading screen

On Xbox they don't load the data from the SSD. The data is already there in the memory, like in one level of Titanfall 2.

 

[phil_t98]

Well Ratchet is loading several different worlds while the Medium is switching between two. The reason why it's instant with the Medium is because they are running two different states at once. Ratchet is literally building each world with the transitions. Technically the XSX can do the same but the loading will take longer. This is just looking at paper specifications mind you.

yeah it can as it would only be adding different states but we dont know how much data is used to say the xbox would take longer, if its streaming 4gb of the world instantly then you have a point but if its under 2 gig it can do it as quick tbh

 

[FranXico]

Now other forum started to find tearing in superior Photo Mode on Series X

Seems like DF missed the tearing.

They must have missed it because VRR. Truly a game changer!

 

[SupremeHoodie]

This is just going to be more and more common as devs learn how to use the full capabilities of the xbox.

 

[phil_t98]

Why exactly do you think they did that?

Because an unlocked frame-rate would have produced extremely wild fluctuations - while yes it's 60fps in other scenes - it's already borderline 30fps here on both. And a massive 30fps to 60fps fluctuations would have been a terrible experience even with VRR. So the 30fps cap was a good call.

Those near-identical 33fps vs 32fps above is also one of the reasons why XSX doesn't get higher settings over PS5, because if it did, like in Hitman 3, the frame-rate on Series X would have been worse than PS5 (even if those drops were occurring in "one level").

didn't he call that the corridor of doom for a reason as even on pc its under heavy load?

 

[MasterCornholio]

yeah it can as it would only be adding different states but we dont know how much data is used to say the xbox would take longer, if its streaming 4gb of the world instantly then you have a point but if its under 2 gig it can do it as quick tbh

The only reason why it's instant on Xbox is because it's running two games at once. Ratchet has those transitions because its building the world from the SSD. If you put Ratchet on Xbox those transitions would be longer. And that's because the I/O is slower. That's if you choose to believe in paper specs like you frequently do with the GPU.

 

[phil_t98]

The only reason why it's instant on Xbox is because it's running two games at once. Ratchet has those transitions because its building the world from the SSD. If you put Ratchet on Xbox those transitions would be longer. And that's because the I/O is slower. That's if you choose to believe in paper specs like you frequently do with the GPU.

where have I mentioned paper spec or gpu power? not once have i. as I said the Ratchet is impressive, there are still load screens though

 

[MasterCornholio]

where have I mentioned paper spec or gpu power? not once have i. as I said the Ratchet is impressive, there are still load screens though

And the Medium not having load screens is because they are running two different states of the world.

It really isn't the same thing as Ratchet using the SSD to build each instance.

I hope you understand that.

 

[phil_t98]

And the Medium not having load screens is because they are running two different states of the world.

It really isn't the same thing as Ratchet using the SSD to build each instance.

I hope you understand that.

again I just praised Rachet with no mention of the medium, I take you word for it. we dont know how much data is being thrown about by each game tbh.

 

[DJ12]

Lol turns out the guy who called DFs frame rate analyser is the guy behind vg tech. Take it as read DFs analysis is borked and needs fixing.

How can it not detect torn frames lol.

 

[FatKingBallman]

So after one hounded messages are you finally agree with me that the cpu cannot be a bottleneck and that the test is 1 excellent test for real performance in this specific case about a game that run also ray tracing an effect that will be used practically in most next gen games). okay perfect then.

LOL. I'm talking about CPU that isn't a bottleneck contrary to what Alex said since page 6 i think. You, Xbox fans, mocked Lances post on page 6.

Like ethomaz said to you few pages ago

People already tried to say Lance is bullshiting pages ago lol

I mean imagine a Photo Mode where the engine keep doing CPU calcs for enemies, physics, bullets, player interaction, etc.

 

[MasterCornholio]

again I just praised Rachet with no mention of the medium, I take you word for it. we dont know how much data is being thrown about by each game tbh.

We don't know about the amount of data but we do know that Ratchet isn't running two states at once. It's essentially loading the data from the SSD and building the world. The Medium isn't doing that otherwise it wouldn't have those instant transitions.

Those instant transitions in the Medium are possible on the PS5 since Titanfalls 2 time level is already BC on it.

 

[bender]

This thread is out of control.

 

[New Yorks Finest]

Easily i can check your post history too.



Well, UI is at 1080p.

What r you doin son?? You still here? Do something constructive with yo life or time..get your fat ass on the treadmill or somethin.

Look at your posting fest history (in the pic above) in an Xbox thread!!??, you a fan ? you embarrassin your fellow shill campers. This couch approved engineer not working for you, you don't look the part. Get ER on the dial you loosin your mind over Xbox, I know it's best console eva.. chillax your desperate titties.

 

[FatKingBallman]

What r you doin son?? You still here? Do something constructive with yo life or time..get your fat ass on the treadmill or somethin.

Look at your posting fest history (in the pic above) in an Xbox thread!!??, you a fan ? you embarrassin your fellow shill campers. This couch approved engineer not working for you, you don't look the part. Get ER on the dial you loosin your mind over Xbox, I know it's best console eva.. chillax your desperate titties.

This isn't Xbox thread only. Cheers!

Btw. No need to be aggressive like that. I'm not

 

[Silent Viper]

Its crazy that all DF threads on Gaf and Era reach 1k pages.. DF must be loving the free coverage of their videos

 

[FrankWza]

This is just going to be more and more common as devs learn how to use the full capabilities of the xbox.

What is? Confirming a components capabilities everyone already knew in a closed console with a test that isolates that component?