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Devs forgot how to do proper 30fps.

rofif

Member
Interesting video that I think many people missed last month from DF.
It shows what I felt since getting a ps5. Some 30fps games are TERRIBLY LAGGY. More than 30fps really should be and it gives even worse impression about 30fps.
I remember comparing Demons Souls 30fps mode to Bloodborne and bloodborne felt so much much more responsive in comparison.
And I was right. DeS 30fps mode is 75ms slower than bloodborne. DF talks about this near the end of the video.


Seems that devs got lazy because they can now include 17 different modes in their games, that they forgot all about good 30fps lock.... and good 60fps lock for that matter. It is more laggy than it should too.
They are most likely falling on slow system level vsynced cap or something similar.

Sure, bloodborne was a little bit stuttery because of all this framepacing but this never bothered me and I now think it was a very fair trade of for very fast input response.
Not every game from last gen does 30fps well though. Final Fantasy XV fidelity mode has so much extreme frame pacing, it is unplayable.... but 1080p30 and 1080p60 modes are perfect, so not sure why 1800p30 is broken like hell.

And no. I will not "just play at performance mode man". Those who say that are ignorant fools.
All the modes are just BS. Make a game and make it properly. And only after that include downgraded performance mode or only fps cap off for vrr users.
When you play a game with good 30fps like uncharted 4 remaster, the trade off is not that bad.
I like best possible graphics and I play on 4k oled on my desk. 1440p can look like crap
 
Yeah, as long as 30 fps is consistent without pacing issue, combined with motion blur and console style of camera control (with a controller instead of mouse, mouse's instant pinpoint movement could break solutions such as Temporal/Checkerboard etc) its good enough, at least for certain types of games

For people who don't like 30 fps there are always performance mode which should be mandatory in every console game
 
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Turns out they were THE BEST at framerates lol
People also tend to defend their mediocre visual quality (for Triple A standard) by strawman to art direction, with that much money generated they should deliver better visual too, there are no excuses.

I love every Fromsoftware games and their game design philosophy, but its fanbase needs to stop hating people for making legitimate criticism
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Read the thread or watch the video.
FROM Soft DONT have this issue. If anything, bluepoint does

Yes, I have. They traded response for consistency. Not everyone would agree with that choice, especially for single player games.

Also, in your OP you've mentioned FFXV. The frame pacing there was also an issue on the PS4 versions, Xbox One or One X versions didn't have that issue in any mode.

There have been tons and tons of other games that have no frame pacing issues at 30 FPS, Spider Man 2018, God of War PS4, Forza Horizon series etc etc. From traded one thing for another instead of optimizing for either.
 
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rofif

Member
Yes, I have. They traded response for consistency. Not everyone would agree with that choice, especially for single player games.

Also, in your OP you've mentioned FFXV. The frame pacing there was also an issue on the PS4 versions, Xbox One or One X versions didn't have that issue in any mode.

There have been tons and tons of other games that have no frame pacing issues at 30 FPS, Spider Man 2018, God of War PS4, Forza Horizon series etc etc. From traded one thing for another instead of optimizing for either.
Yes I know about ff 15. That's why I gave it as a bad example even on last gen.
It's not about having no frame pacing issues. It's about having no framepacing issues and no input lag both at the same time.
BB wins since it got minimal framepacing for exchange of very fast input lag
 

The_Mike

Member
Then you missed whole last gen and 360/ps3 gen. 30fps games were never as slow as Demons Slow at 30fps.
I played plenty x360 games, also done it on my xbox one.

I mean it can be tolerable but it's never been good. Feels slow and clunky.

Being a PC gamer anything under 100 fps is trash. But you get used to it with all that auto aim and all that stuff on console.

It's still not a optimal and great experience, but what can you do (as a console player)
 

rofif

Member
I played plenty x360 games, also done it on my xbox one.

I mean it can be tolerable but it's never been good. Feels slow and clunky.

Being a PC gamer anything under 100 fps is trash. But you get used to it with all that auto aim and all that stuff on console.

It's still not a optimal and great experience, but what can you do (as a console player)
your opinion here is trash. Anything under 100 is bad?
Does you brain not function ?!
As long as the 30fps is good and not broken like DeS 4k30 mode, your brain takes 15 minutes to adjust and you will stop noticing it.

Your super pc master race opinions don't bring anything to the conversation.
 
I think they only bother with 30fps modes for marketing purpose, why would anyone chose to play Demon's Souls at 30fps?

I'm yet to see a single game that justifies 30fps this gen. At this point 60fps just seem like the sweet spot for console games to target, works for everyone and doesn't require any sort of special TV while being considerably better than 30fps.

Locked 60fps and unlocked mode with VRS, those are the only two modes that games need to have.
 
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Guilty_AI

Member
From what i've seen there are two alternative solutions at play here:

-From uses its own v-sync software, which introduces framepacing issues but increases responsiveness

-The fan-patch changes that for the console's own internal v-sync, which is probably what DeS also uses. However this introduces input lag.

This isn't really a "devs are getting lazier!" thing, its just a difference in development philosophy, its a situation you can't really have the two without better hardware or software.
You complain about graphical options, but more options are exactly what could fix things for you here, unless you're implying every game developer must adapt the games they make for your preferences and your preferences alone.
 
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rofif

Member
This, a 1080p60fps with all visual bells and whistles would be my go to. Chasing 4k is such a waste

I think they only bother with 30fps modes for marketing purpose, why would anyone chose to play Demon's Souls at 30fps?

I'm yet to see a single game that justifies 30fps this gen.
You both clearly do not own 4k monitor or 4k tv.
4k can be really nice and immersive. I mean... look. This is how 4k looks on oled up close:
The pixelation is not showing in reality. It's just a moire effect from the camera.
So 4k modes are just for advertising but then when it comes to reality, we are expected to play in low res mode ?!



moved the iphone really close up to the screen. Game paused with photomode still on the same frame as above
 
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rofif

Member
I won’t even play a game anymore this generation if it’s 30fps
So you will not play ND new game if it's only 30fps? You will miss on the best of the best because of artificial limitation?
I personally remember how good the game looked after I finish it. Not how it ran really.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
So you will not play ND new game if it's only 30fps? You will miss on the best of the best because of artificial limitation?
I personally remember how good the game looked after I finish it. Not how it ran really.

Why would you think ND's next game won't have a 60 FPS mode for single player ?
 

rofif

Member
Why would you think ND's next game won't have a 60 FPS mode for single player ?
It would be their first 60fps on release.
uc1,2,3,4,tlou1,2 only launched with 30fps.
By the time they launch new game, we will be deep in this gen and ps5 will be squeezed for power
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
It would be their first 60fps on release.
uc1,2,3,4,tlou1,2 only launched with 30fps

TLoU 1 remake is 60 FPS IIRC.

Also, last gen frame rate was severely limited by the under powered CPUs. That is not an issue this gen, Zen 2 is extremely modern and competent even though Zen 3 is out.
 

rofif

Member
TLoU 1 remake is 60 FPS IIRC.

Also, last gen frame rate was severely limited by the under powered CPUs. That is not an issue this gen, Zen 2 is extremely modern and competent even though Zen 3 is out.
tlou1 remake is a remake. It's not the new hot game, showing that ps5 looks better than real life.
If their real new game will be 60fps... it will be at 1080p
 

NeonGhost

uses 'M$' - What year is it? Not 2002.
So you will not play ND new game if it's only 30fps? You will miss on the best of the best because of artificial limitation?
I personally remember how good the game looked after I finish it. Not how it ran really.
ND is a developer that should be held at a higher standard and not release a game in 30fps and if they do I’ll wait till they fix it with a pro version or the next generation system
 

rofif

Member
ND is a developer that should be held at a higher standard and not release a game in 30fps and if they do I’ll wait till they fix it with a pro version or the next generation system
To me, releasing best possible graphics at 30fps is the higher standard.
Of course this gen we have vrr, so it would be perfect if ANY game had fps cap off/vrr mode.
This way, we get more fps on PRO consoles automatically
 

NeonGhost

uses 'M$' - What year is it? Not 2002.
To me, releasing best possible graphics at 30fps is the higher standard.
Of course this gen we have vrr, so it would be perfect if ANY game had fps cap off/vrr mode.
This way, we get more fps on PRO consoles automatically
yeah thankfully the gaming industry listened to the majority of gamers when we decided higher frame rates over graphics
no way ND releases a 30fps only game
 

rofif

Member
yeah thankfully the gaming industry listened to the majority of gamers when we decided higher frame rates over graphics
no way ND releases a 30fps only game
It's just an effect of longer cross gen.
You act like 60fps was discovered now. I play hfr for almost 30 years now. I still have 180hz crt man.... framerate is not the only thing that matters but these new pc gamers who act like they just discovered hfr are just annoying
 

rofif

Member
Best answer, highest fps I can get with vrr. But that's my choice, if you like 30fps as long as its locked I respect that.
You accused me of being a peasant but respect my choice?
Now I want to know what display you game on and what hardware you have that you are so sure to call me a peasant.
 
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