Redlancet
Banned
Almost like people forgot that Happened on the 360vs ps3 times
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dev states that their game will have lower fps on PS5 than on XSX. Blames Sony (...then Unity, then deletes original Tweet)
Redlancet
Banned
I'm not interested in this game (although I'm sure some people will love it, especially my niece) but it shows the same code runs much worse on PS5 and that's very telling. Sony fans were believing PS5 is much easier to develop games, and here we can see how it works in reality.
Yesterday he said Orphan can run at 120fps on PS5 but at lower resolution. So even if he will redirect audio resources to the dedicated chip this game will be still GPU limited. That's probably why he is saying 120fps on PS5 is nothing certain, because CPU is not the bottleneck.
Xbox One X can run it this game at 4K 60fps, while PS5 struggle to hit 120fps? I can believe that because I have seen RX580 vs 5700XT comparisons and 10TF RDNA1 wasnt exactly 2x better compared to 6TF GCN Polaris.
There are few examples with 100% scaling, but most of the time it was below 100%. Of course PS5 GPU will be a little bit better than 5700XT thanks to RDNA2, but Xbox One X GPU was also better than standard RX580.
MS has said not every game will show perfect scaling using just architecture gains alone and that's why they wanted to build XSX with exactly 2x more TFLOPS in order to double Xbox One X GPU performance in every game. PS5 GPU is 10TF and that's assuming the best scenario (variable clock), so people should be really no surprised PS5 GPU cant double Xbox One X results so easily.
How in hell anyone can use what this guy said as as a serious argument scapes me
FranXico
Member
The ones who are gloating the most now conveniently forget those times so they can play the victim. "Oh how I suffered for 7 years!"
Thirty7ven
Banned
Xbox
Xbox 360
Xbox Series X
The Xbox One was clearly the exception. The pattern is more than clear.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
That's not actually true, if you look at this video:And at the end of the day nobody will see those high fps smoothness with a 60Hz TV’s
Basically if internal logic runs at 120hz, like pooling inputs, etc. You get something out of it even on 60hz screen. That's why physics in some racing games runs asynchronously and much faster than load times. Also NFS: Hot Pursuit remake has faster controller pooling than how fast it ran on screen.
To be honest, Unity isn't not the greatest engine (like Ori and Will of the Wisps proved) and I would not be surprised if this whole thing would be more demanding than RDR2.
Last edited:
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
This thread is clearly proving his point.Is this thread supposed to demonstrate that Sony fans are less likely to get upset about unflattering console comparisons?
He's clearly Xbox biased but maybe that's a result of his experiences on Twitter.
Mista
Banned
Yeah, no. If its not true then the difference between a 60Hz screen and 120Hz screen is nothing?
Nope. Feeling the 60fps smoothness? Sure. But feeling the 120fps smoothness on a 60Hz screen? Doesn't work that way
My TV is 60 and my monitor is 165 and I can clearly see the difference
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Again not in visible framerate, but how fast you can pool data from the controller. Because most often pooling data from controller takes multiple rendered frames, so if you run that on 120fps, you get faster response time.
pawel86ck
Banned
Sure thing my boy, lets pretend developers are lying (Orphan developer is not the first suggesting the difference between both consoles is big) and instead keep believing everytning God Cerny tells people.
I know what he said, and he didnt said what you think he said. Make sense
? He will try to optimize his game, and that's all. It's still uncertain if Orphan will run at 120fps and probably not according to his suggestions.
Last edited:
GreyHand23
Member
Sure thing my boy, lets pretend developers are lying (Orphan developer is not the first suggesting the difference between both consoles is big) and instead keep believing everytning God Cerny tells people.
Cerny looks so trustworthy and would never lie anyone right?
I know what he said, and he didnt said what you think he said. Make sense
No need to be childish. There has not been a single reputable dev come out and say there is a big difference. Is the gpu stronger in the XSX? The numbers suggest so, and it’s about a 15-20% difference. The only people turning that into this big difference that you claim are console warriors and one man indie devs that are looking for attention. You continue along this path and you’re going to look silly when the consoles are released and this so called big difference doesn’t actually exist except in your dreams.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Sure thing my boy, lets pretend developers are lying (Orphan developer is not the first suggesting the difference between both consoles is big) and instead keep believing everytning God Cerny tells people.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
What makes a dev reputable? One who says what you want to hear I suspect.
FranXico
Member
Exactly. Just like for you, this indie dev is more reputable than that Crytek graphics engineer.
BluRayHiDef
Banned
You guys are talking about gaming at 120Hz and 240Hz, yet I'm still rockin' 60Hz displays.
My main TV is a TCL 55R617, which has a 60Hz panel; I play my PS4 Pro and Xbox One X on it, and I'm content with its refresh rate as long as the frame-pacing of games is smooth. Heck, games don't even have to run at 60frps in order for me to be content; TLoU Part II and Ghosts of Tsushima run at 30fps, but they feel smooth and responsive due to their frame pacing.
My secondary TV is an LG 43UH6500, which I use as my monitor. My PC* can run games in 4K at 60fps as long as I tweak the settings and I'm content with the performance.
So, I guess I don't know what I'm missing; ignorance is bliss.
I'd get a proper monitor, but a 43" 4K monitor costs way more than a 43" 4K TV.
*PC Specifications
1. i7-5820k
2. Asus X99 Deluxe
3. 8 x 4GB Crucial 2400Mhz DDR4 RAM
4. EVGA GTX 1080 Ti
5. Samsung EVO 500GB SATA SSD
6. Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB HDD
7. Western Digital Blue 6TB and 4TB HDD
8. NZXT H440 Mid-Sized Tower.
2. Asus X99 Deluxe
3. 8 x 4GB Crucial 2400Mhz DDR4 RAM
4. EVGA GTX 1080 Ti
5. Samsung EVO 500GB SATA SSD
6. Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB HDD
7. Western Digital Blue 6TB and 4TB HDD
8. NZXT H440 Mid-Sized Tower.
Last edited:
chilichote
Member
I didn't make any comparison, i stated a fact
pawel86ck
Banned
Chris Grannel is reputable industry professional in my book. He left sony, but he still have friends there and he is not afraid to share his inside knowledge. Now Orphan developer confirms what Chris said before and it really makes sense when you realize what it takes to double XOX results. Only XSX is build to double XOX GPU power. I guess Orphan developer could implement some form of upscaling but maybe he dont want to use such magic tricks.
Dont forget PS5 is using variable clock and maybe even some important RDNA2 features found in XSX are missing.
Last edited:
chilichote
Member
Don't forget, all parts that are clock-depending in the PS5-GPU are faster than in the XSeX-GPU. Also, the PS5 didn't need DX12U to have the same or comparable Features, because it has it's own API.
Last edited:
WelshBluebird
Member
You - and the vast vast majority of people who will buy a PS5 or Xbox Series X.
I do find it a bit amusing that there has been some discussion about if native 4k is a waste of resources and if we should focus on 1440p or similar instead with DLSS style upscaling, but then there's all this talk about 120Hz etc too. I guarantee more people will notice and will be able to take advantage of a native 4k mode than a 120 fps mode.
Instead of arguing about 30 / 60 / 120 / 240 fps, can we just make sure whichever is chosen, it is a consistent experience?
I am happy with 60 fps and can deal with 30, what I struggle to deal with are games where the frame rate varies wildly. That is where you can the really stuttery and disjointed feeling that far too many games still have.
Last edited:
GreyHand23
Member
I almost forgot about Chris Grannel. First, he is not a current dev and has not worked in the gaming industry in over a decade. Second, the first thing you see when you go to his twitter is him talking to timdog and doing interviews with Dealer, both of who have gone beyond being a fanboy and into the realm of insane fanaticism. If those are your champions then so be it, but like I said only in your dreams will a similar game be 60 fps more at the same quality on a XSX due to an actual power difference.
Mista
Banned
I wouldn't recommend getting a 43" monitor if you're into competitive FPS games
But if you're not then I highly recommend getting one of those 40"+ curved monitors or even non curved
You'rte just missing out on the extra smoothness while playing which is trust me, a joy to the eyes.
I think the xbox series x will be able to run them at 120fps (maybe not 4k). the thing Microsoft are good at are writing APIs that add some overhead but provide easy improvements from gen to gen. I suspect that this game is mostly an xbox one game which is benefiting from this on xbox series x without much work.
GreyHand23
Member
The bar has to be a bit higher than one person making a game that could have come out on the ps2 or original xbox and only puts out statements via twitter and no actual interviews. If it were up to you apparently, Chris Grannell, Dealer, misterxmedia, timdog, bluenughro, and others are all reputable. I don't actually know what the equivalents of those are on the Sony side, but I wouldn't consider them to be reputable sources either. When the Sony engineer came out with the RDNA information, I believed it was reputable. Do we know exactly what it means? No, and either side has decided to put their own spin on it, but I prefer to not get too crazy with wild speculation and wait for actual results or information from more reliable sources. I think Dirt 5 at 120 fps and Spiderman MM at 4k/60 fps is proof enough that this dev's claims are likely not true and that he doesn't have a ps5 devkit.
eastwood333
Banned
The XSX 12tf GPU at sustained performance= more performance/more powerful/faster overall with its 40% higher CU count no matter how you try to frame it. DF, all the tech sites give XSX the power advantage in GPU/CPU/bandwidth.
I think the power difference is 18%-25% depending on how hard games push the PS5's variable clocks.
MS may also do a last minute upclock to the XSX, given how conservative the clocks are set currently according to DF and based on MS history in the past.
Last edited:
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
I find it very hard to believe that if this guy had been saying the opposite, that many here would not be singing a completely different tune. As for me, I take it all with a grain of salt, but won't discredit someone just because they are a small indie dev.
I think that this thread is largely missing the point of the original tweet. The core of his quote is about how comparable the two fanbases are in terms of defensiveness and aggression. If you want to prove him wrong there's six pages before this post that are working against you.
GreyHand23
Member
He's not discredited just because he's a small indie dev. All you have to do is read his twitter to see that not only does he likely not have a ps5 devkit, but that he seems to harbor some hatred of Sony that has gone beyond a level of objectivity expected of someone expecting to sell a product to consumers. I don't see any of the major xbox or sony devs saying these types of things. Most indie devs don't engage in this type of childish behavior either. Most devs embrace games from all places in the gaming industry. If I hear that somehow the ps5 is actually more performance than the XSX, I would be skeptical and I would try to search the credentials and the history of the person saying such to see if their opinion is likely just biased. In this case I was right to question because this guy has already shifted the blame to unity engine although if I were in his shoes, I wouldn't have said anything. Release isn't until Holiday time and he has plenty of time to do optimization so why else come out with this nonsense other than to grab attention for his game and continue to push his anti-Sony agenda.
jose4gg
Member
He thorows rocks by saying "I diNt mAKe the cONsoLe, BLamE SonY" and you expect people to threat him like he is impartail ?
MasterCornholio
Member
Sure thing my boy, lets pretend developers are lying (Orphan developer is not the first suggesting the difference between both consoles is big) and instead keep believing everytning God Cerny tells people.
Cerny looks so trustworthy and would never lie anyone right?
I know what he said, and he didnt said what you think he said. Make sense
And he's saying that without a PS5 developer kit?
Especially with a very simple game like that is why I doubt that the PS5 can't handle it at 120FPs.
Last edited:
GreyHand23
Member
His tweet is nonsense. Why would anyone care about this game going multi-platform? His comparison makes little sense. Should sony fanboys attack him? No, but he's clearly got an agenda.
jose4gg
Member
He knows pretty well What he is doing, there is no way he is expecting to sell his game on the PS platform while trying to push the blame on Sony first (I didn't make the console statement), and having a big history of throwing shade at PS... He wants to win in one platform kinda like small devs do when have exclusive deals with specfic platform, player buy the game for exclusivity. That's all.
Last edited:
Jon Neu
Banned
I think you're giving him too much credit.
jose4gg
Member
He is a fanboy, but he know how to make games and how to entertaing his fanbase, he is creating a lot of talk by talking things from the "IM A DEV, DUDE TRUST ME", He comparing Xbox players to PS players is a direct result of his strategy, making feel the xbox fans like they are special (no toxic community inside), while doing the inverse thing for PS players...
He does not expect to sell in PS...
Last edited:
pawel86ck
Banned
PS5 clock 2.2GHz looks mighty impressive on paper but variable clock is very important distinction. Cerny has said he expect PS5 GPU to stay at close to 2.2GHz most of the time but he dont want to be transparent with people and say exactly how much PS5 will downclock when it will be pushed to it's absolute limits (games with unlocked framerate or dynamic resolution will do that). Remember anything below 2170MHz and PS5 is already sub 10TF.
PlayStation 5's Boost Clock Design Opens Up a Lot of Opportunities, Says Developer
Sony's PlayStation 5 design choice to go with a 'boost clock' design may open up for a lot of opportunities, according to a developer.
wccftech.com
Last edited:
Jon Neu
Banned
I don't know man, he just looks like an Xbox fanboy venting at Sony fans for notoriety reasons, but he is making himself look like a moron in the process.
jose4gg
Member
PS5 clock 2.2GHz looks mighty impressive on paper but variable clock is very important distinction. Cerny has said he expect PS5 GPU to stay at close to 2.2GHz most of the time but he dont want to be transparent with people and say exactly how much PS5 will downclock when it will be pushed to it's absolute limits (games with unlocked framerate or dynamic resolution will do that). Remember anything below 2170MHz and PS5 is already sub 10TF.
Why Sony is asking developers to not push PS5 GPU to it's limits? I thought Cerny has said he expect PS5 GPU to sustain 2.2GHz for long period of time? Can you elaborate on that?PlayStation 5's Boost Clock Design Opens Up a Lot of Opportunities, Says Developer
Sony's PlayStation 5 design choice to go with a 'boost clock' design may open up for a lot of opportunities, according to a developer.
- ¿Where is sony saying to the devs to not push the GPU? can you show me the specific line
- Cerny said the numbers, MOST OF THE TIME at 2.23 or close to, and when we have to put less power, we expect 2% in reduction. This happends when both the CPU/GPU are at top speed and max power, something that does not happend frequenly at the same time...
GreyHand23
Member
PS5 clock 2.2GHz looks mighty impressive on paper but variable clock is very important distinction. Cerny has said he expect PS5 GPU to stay at close to 2.2GHz most of the time but he dont want to be transparent with people and say exactly how much PS5 will downclock when it will be pushed to it's absolute limits (games with unlocked framerate or dynamic resolution will do that). Remember anything below 2170MHz and PS5 is already sub 10TF.
Why Sony is asking developers to not push PS5 GPU to it's limits? I thought Cerny has said he expect PS5 GPU to sustain 2.2GHz for long period of time? Can you elaborate on that?PlayStation 5's Boost Clock Design Opens Up a Lot of Opportunities, Says Developer
Sony's PlayStation 5 design choice to go with a 'boost clock' design may open up for a lot of opportunities, according to a developer.
If you read the actual quote by this developer it's clear that this isn't a direct message from Sony, this is just their opinion from watching the same Road to PS5 conference that we all saw. Getting opinions from small devs that don't even have ps5 devkits is how you make headlines.
Last edited:
DarkestHour
Banned
120fps is so awesome. Going back to 60fps sucks. Helps more though having a monitor that supports it.
Zoro7
Banned
No one in this thread will play this shite game. But because there’s an agenda people are acting like it’s very important.
Enjoy taking zoomed in screenshots of your series X games to show off how powerful it is because that’s exactly what yall will need in order to see the difference between that and the PS5.
Enjoy taking zoomed in screenshots of your series X games to show off how powerful it is because that’s exactly what yall will need in order to see the difference between that and the PS5.
Chaplain
Member
The more PS5 news comes is released the more it seems that we have gone back in time to the year 2013:
"Why It Matters That PS4 Games Are Higher-Resolution Than Xbox One"
Xbox One Resolutiongate: the 720p fallout
‘Thief’ to Also Boast Better Graphics on PS4 (1080p) vs. Xbox One (900p)
Metal Gear Solid 5 Is 720p On Xbox One, 1080p On PS4
The Witcher 3 Running 900p, 30fps On Xbox One, 1080p At 30fps On PS4
"Why It Matters That PS4 Games Are Higher-Resolution Than Xbox One"
Xbox One Resolutiongate: the 720p fallout
‘Thief’ to Also Boast Better Graphics on PS4 (1080p) vs. Xbox One (900p)
Metal Gear Solid 5 Is 720p On Xbox One, 1080p On PS4
The Witcher 3 Running 900p, 30fps On Xbox One, 1080p At 30fps On PS4
Last edited:
SleepDoctor
Banned
Exactly, absolutely no ones cares about this shitty game. That's why outrage is even more hilarious.
pawel86ck
Banned
Chris dont need to work for sony right now, to know what they are doing. He still has inside sources there (his friends) and I can bet he knows more than you guys are willing to admit. If he said his friends told him the difference between XSX and PS5 is staggering, then that's very telling.
Dealer is xbox fanboy for sure, but the thing is he is very popular. If you havent noticed he is hosting many interesting people on his shows, even top engineers from MS. It's unfair to label all his guests untrustworthy just because they want to share their knowledge on his shows.
Last edited:
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
Its confirmed that Dirt5 runs on 4k/120fps on the PS5.....
McCarth
Member
I love great graphics as much as the next guy, but man, am I the only one who just doesn't care about that for these upcoming systems as much as I do about the eventual elimination of load times due to the SDDs?
Man alive I can't wait for both consoles to get rid of that stuff, I hate waiting!
Man alive I can't wait for both consoles to get rid of that stuff, I hate waiting!
Barnabot
Member
sonomamashine
Member
The fact that you have to explain why XSX is more powerful/faster is ridiculous, it doesn't matter, even if MS upclock the GPU let's imagine @2.22Ghz you'll still hear "well technically ps5 is faster"
I think he's referring to this part of the quote :
"And what Sony are essentially saying are, here's your tool of options, you can absolutely throttle to the max. We prefer if you didn't, but if there's like a fringe case where you're just off that tiny bit of performance you need, we will let you squeeze a little bit extra."
Dodkrake
Banned
Why is it that you and Eastwood find it difficult to understand that faster =/= more powerful?
BluRayHiDef
Banned
What specific 40" 4K monitors do you recommend? Do you have a link?
GreyHand23
Member
When the top engineers from MS go on his show they don't say crazy things. That's the difference. Nothing wrong with being a fanboy or being proud of your chosen product, but I'm not going to trust nebulous sources from a guy like Chris Grannell with obvious bias and a history of trolling.
Mista
Banned
Don't have lots of info on 4K monitors because they're dumb to me but I'll find you one hold on
Edit: I think its tough to find big 4K monitors but take a look at those one
4K 43" and 144Hz
Acer Predator CG437K 43” Monitor Review: Perfectly Sized 4K Gaming
This high-end display offers some of the best contrast, and therefore image quality, available.
www.tomshardware.com
Last edited: