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News Demon's Souls on PS5 to have more than 180 tutorial videos

SCB3

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Nov 24, 2014
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Or maybe they should have just add difficulty options to make the game more accessible. No way in hell I'll watch 180 videos of this shit just to understand the basics.


You ever played something like Crusader Kings or Stellaris? 180 videos just seems about right for the basics

Anyone, there's nothing wrong with providing help or advice like this, as long as it doesn't force it for example popping up cause I died to a boss a few times
 

Thirty7ven

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It signals a lack of commitment to the game's design principles. It says: welcome to the Souls series, don't bother trying to learn how to be good at it.

A creator who is dedicated to the integrity of his work would not pander in this way. It's unbecoming and it weakens the confidence with which it's presented.

Social factors such as this are not quantifiable, e.g. "What does it matter to you if your girlfriend cheated on you?" And no, I'm not comparing this to something like that, I am just illustrating that looking at things mechanically misses some important factors. Mechanically, you're not affected, but there is an abstract effect that you are neglecting.

It's like a top chef doing commercials for McDonalds. Mechanically "it doesn't affect the food he makes bruh." But it's unbecoming and diminishes the intangible value of his craft.

In general, "you can't tell the difference" is a poor argument.

It's only in your head, and this thing you're feeling is nothing BUT gatekeeping. People have smartphones and anyone can just reach their pocket and boot up a video on Youtube that does the exact same thing.

Worthless complaint.
 

borborygmus

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It's only in your head, and this thing you're feeling is nothing BUT gatekeeping. People have smartphones and anyone can just reach their pocket and boot up a video on Youtube that does the exact same thing.

Worthless complaint.

There's nothing wrong with upholding a certain standard.
 

Thirty7ven

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I make arguments for that standard in order to convince people. I haven't assembled a militia.

Your position is arguing that the option shouldn't exist and therefore those who find themselves in trouble should be excluded from further enjoying the game.

Sometimes people just need help in one or two spots, and then they never use it again. It could be the difference between a frustrating experience and a challenging one.

Accessibility options are extremely welcomed. Devs don't make games just for smorgasbird to feel like he accomplished something meaningful.
 
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borborygmus

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Your position is arguing that the option shouldn't exist and therefore those who find themselves in trouble should be excluded from further enjoying the game.

Sometimes people just need help in one or two spots, and then they never use it again. It could be the difference between a frustrating experience and a challenging one.

Accessibility options are extremely welcomed. Devs don't make games just for smorgasbird to feel like he accomplished something meaningful.

Devs shouldn't make games for me, they should make games according to their vision, and let people flock to whatever appeals to them most. It's a free market type of situation. And just like in free market economics, the short-sighted drive for infinite profits at the expense of the ecosystem eventually causes cynical compromises and it's these compromises that I argue against.
 

Phase

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Moogle11

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Good. I really like that hint feature and hope a lot of games support it. It’s just as optional as looking uo stuff on YouTube so it’s no bother to people who avoid hints etc, while easier than having YouTube on a tablet or whatever beside us for those with less patience/time for figuring out what to do/where to go in games.
 
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Thirty7ven

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Devs shouldn't make games for me, they should make games according to their vision, and let people flock to whatever appeals to them most. It's a free market type of situation. And just like in free market economics, the short-sighted drive for infinite profits at the expense of the ecosystem eventually causes cynical compromises and it's these compromises that I argue against.

Including a QoL option that already exists in the real world doesn't compromise anyone's vision unless you're arguing that these games shouldn't even exist unless we can ban plaforms like Youtube out of existence.
 

borborygmus

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Including a QoL option that already exists in the real world doesn't compromise anyone's vision unless you're arguing that these games shouldn't even exist unless we can ban plaforms like Youtube out of existence.

YouTube is not something the developers are including as part of the offering. When developers start doing it, it's a slippery slope. Many games now, e.g. Super Mario 3D World, keep shoving easy mode in your face whenever you face a challenge. I do not welcome any move in that direction.

The developers should focus singularly on their vision.
 
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Moogle11

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YouTube is not something the developers are including as part of the offering. When developers start doing it, it's a slippery slope. Many games now, e.g. Super Mario 3D World, keep shoving easy mode in your face whenever you face a challenge. I do not welcome any move in that direction.

The developers should focus singularly on their vision.

As much as I like the feature, I agree devs shouldn’t be forced to support it. And I also dislike when games constantly nag about lowering difficulty. I greatly appreciate when games have difficulty settings, especially if they’re nuanced things you can tweak like TLOU2 or Control (after the update), but there’s no need to nag. Just have the options there in the menu.

Also not saying devs need to build difficulty options either, as I agree they should make whatever their vision is. It’s probably smart for huge budget games to have more options to be accessible since they have to sell so many copies to make a profit, but it’s still their call. I have no issues doing my due diligence and skipping hard games with no difficulty options as some that just games to veg out and relax these days. Not everything has to be for me.
 
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Keihart

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Seems like some people are missing the context, this videos are the in game tutorial in the form of "activites", it's new PS5 OS feature that can be used as in game guides or challenges. Completely optional and you have to go to the OS menu to select it.
 

DelireMan7

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Seems like some people are missing the context, this videos are the in game tutorial in the form of "activites", it's new PS5 OS feature that can be used as in game guides or challenges. Completely optional and you have to go to the OS menu to select it.

I think people are aware of it but they just like complain about the sole existence of optional tutorial videos that you have to go look for it.
Don't tell them it's already existing and it's called Youtube, they would be even more pissed...
 

Thirty7ven

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YouTube is not something the developers are including as part of the offering. When developers start doing it, it's a slippery slope. Many games now, e.g. Super Mario 3D World, keep shoving easy mode in your face whenever you face a challenge. I do not welcome any move in that direction.

The developers should focus singularly on their vision.

Giving an option like this does not mess up with their vision. An easy mode might because they would have to re balance the game.

Also I don’t think devs want people unhappy that a game is frustrating. For example, the loading speed of the game will by default make the game easier to enjoy. A person that wouldn’t have finished the original because of down time might now feel compelled to go again.
 
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gspat

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Devs shouldn't make games for me, they should make games according to their vision, and let people flock to whatever appeals to them most. It's a free market type of situation. And just like in free market economics, the short-sighted drive for infinite profits at the expense of the ecosystem eventually causes cynical compromises and it's these compromises that I argue against.
Sooo...

Life of Black Tiger then?
 

borborygmus

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Giving an option like this does not mess up with their vision. An easy mode might because they would have to re balance the game.

Also I don’t think devs want people unhappy that a game is frustrating. For example, the loading speed of the game will by default make the game easier to enjoy. A person that wouldn’t have finished the original because of down time might now feel compelled to go again.

I've written before that options that contradict the canonical design of a game are a signal of a lack of confidence in the design. When you present a creative work, a large part of it is confidence in what you've achieved. The more variants a creator produces, the more apparent it is the creator was not convinced or not sure how it should have been, and you can bet that informed the design.

In the case of this game, the designers are either saying "we're not really sure if what Demon's Souls did with its main selling point was actually ideal" or "we want try to appeal to people who don't really care about Demon's Souls" and both of those are negatives.

Maybe the Skyrim-like aesthetic comes from the same place. The uncompromising vision of the original isn't here. It'll probably still be good overall, but these kinds of flaws are real.
 
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Phase

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You know I think this stuff is fine, but I do think it lessens the sense of achievement, learning, and exploration within gaming itself. Just speaking personally, probably the biggest reason I love gaming is figuring out how things work (mechanics, strategies, etc.) and creating and having fun from those unique aspects within each game.

Everyone games for different reasons, and sometimes they just want to casually play through a story. But I think integrating tutorials into a gaming system like this kills a big part of what gaming used to be about.
 

Thirty7ven

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Either you guys have no self control, or the point for you is to feel superior to other people just because you can finish a game and they can’t. It’s weird.
 

Ar¢tos

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I've written before that options that contradict the canonical design of a game are a signal of a lack of confidence in the design. When you present a creative work, a large part of it is confidence in what you've achieved. The more variants a creator produces, the more apparent it is the creator was not convinced or not sure how it should have been, and you can bet that informed the design.

In the case of this game, the designers are either saying "we're not really sure if what Demon's Souls did with its main selling point was actually ideal" or "we want try to appeal to people who don't really care about Demon's Souls" and both of those are negatives.

Maybe the Skyrim-like aesthetic comes from the same place. The uncompromising vision of the original isn't here. It'll probably still be good overall, but these kinds of flaws are real.
The game is fucking ancient and everyone already knows everything about it.
The cards are there to give 90% of the "souls" virgins some hope before they rage quit for good.
Out of curiosity, are you this snob outside of the Internet?
 
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Enjay

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That activities ui is one of those features that's gonna get used on launch for a while and then never bothered with again.
 

FunkMiller

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As one of the biggest opponents you’ll find to a Souls game easy mode, I don’t have an issue with this. It’s exactly the same as going online for tips, hints and walkthroughs, just streamlined.
 

borborygmus

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The game is fucking ancient and everyone already knows everything about it.
The cards are there to give 90% of the "souls" virgins some hope before they rage quit for good.
Out of curiosity, are you this snob outside of the Internet?

I'm not really a snob. You'll never catch me writing about bullshit like "ludonarrative dissonance." I've just seen entryism destroy things I liked and it always starts off like this.

The real snobs are the "picky eaters" who need a slathering of ketchup to make Souls palatable. Just eat tendies my dudes. Go to another restaurant. I don't want the chef wasting his time on you when you don't even like his cooking. For some reason they really, really need for this particular chef, who makes stuff they don't like, to appeal to them. They are bothered by the existence of someone like him. He's getting accolades, and yet he isn't thinking of them, and this cannot be accepted. After a while the chef succumbs, and his next dish is one step closer to tendies.

Given enough time, things deteriorate.

limit [t->∞] (quality) = 0

Then we make threads asking why everything sucks now and some people come out and say "it's just nostalgia bro."
 
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borborygmus

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Anyone who gets upset over video games needs to get an actual life.

I used mathematical notation in my last comment. I hope it is understood that while I'm really arguing a point, there is some fun troll energy there.
 

Greirat

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Perhaps it should disable achievements if you use the guide videos? That's normally what happens if you use cheat codes or something.
 

butane bob

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lmao why not just include that feature from the later mario games where if you die too many times it automatically plays the level for you.
 
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Why is that in gaming, gatekeepers see themselves as some authority when in combat sports, gatekeepers are the guys send over to get smashed by the real contenders?

What I mean is, this gatekeeping you're doing? Yikes

Nah, dont be like that.

I even suck at the Souls games. I am not an extreme difficulty apologist or anything like that.

I just dont see much sense having a (quasi) game guide inside the game.

These like most games are at their best when you are 'finding them for yourself', you know?

Im my opinion, obviously.

A super intensive tutorial with over 180 freaking videos would make sense in, say, a multiplayer-focused, competitive fighting game.


I wouldnt find the Souls titles as magical if I was not discovering the mechanics and the lore in a more subtle, blind way.
 
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Spukc

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look it’s the easy mode.
Now everyone that beats this game on ps5 Basically cheated. On the ps3 we didn’t have this shit. You had to work for it.

how am i supposed to impress girls now?
 
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Spukc

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I feel like easy mode would have been the easy way to make the game more accessible.

This is better in that all players can benefit from this. Or just ignore it.
Imagine playing a game and having a friend next to you telling every fucking step what and how you should play your game.

that’s how modern gaming is.
like playing a game on twitch and have chat explaining you what to do
 

GymWolf

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It's not reflexes. Demon's Souls has mostly puzzle bosses and the easiest bosses in the series. It's more a cerebral experience.
They actually kinda made the game harder in this remake, as I believe they limited healing items. In original Demon's Souls you could have ridiculous amounts of healing.

You can also summon, getting people to join you in defeating the bosses. You can get a few hints about easiest progression from fellow gamers, including good early items (most of the first levels have some good equipment in them). The bigger enemy will be the environment, which you'll have to explore and master, including the various enemies you'll meet.

Even the later Souls games, which have far more twitch-like encounters, can still be beaten without going overboard with reflexes. Honestly, your ability to notice patterns and be able to choose the opportune moment to strike. The game has been finished on like numerous different controllers that severely limit reflexes.

Say you don't have the patience, sure, but it's definitely not about your reflexes going down as you're older.
This chick beated an hard boss on ds3 with a fucking lets dance controller...

 
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