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News Demon Souls Reviews | The Remake

sixamp

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I never played them original but I've seen videos and visually demon souls 2020 is gorgeous compared to the original but after playing for about an hour I can't say it's a next gen showpiece. Visually the game could be done on a ps4pro or one X. It's a good game though.
 

Kokoloko85

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I mean, it should receive that. It's still the same game, but prettier. I though 89 in metacritic for DeS back in 2009 was fair, especially in an era before DaS, perhaps even a bit low. I still think both of them are around a 9/10, due to my own preference for DeS's levels. Bosses are way dated, even as puzzle bosses. I mean, if a 2009 plain remake beats out the other titles of the series, sans Bloodborne, there's either been something wrong with every subsequent game in the series or reviewers are definitely caught into hype and overrating it. I feel like the user reviews are much fairer, hanging around 8.8/10, which is still high, but seems more sensible.
Maybe a lot of reviewers are new to the series though, which I could see would make them rate DeS very highly if it's their first Soulsborne experience. It was my third or fourth and it was definitely special, though most of the community has prefered DaS.

It was my first souls experience. I loved it. Although Id give it a 9/10 and Dark Souls a 10/10 its a top 10 favourite of mine. Same with Bloodborne
Im glad its getting the love it deserves now
 

Danjin44

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Tell me why not? God of war and horizon look better to me.
God of War have places with lows textures and the FPS is no where near as smooth as Demon's Souls even on performance mode



If you are talking God of War having more detail character model, yes because games with established character will always have more detailed than avatar in character creation.
 
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Raonak

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I never played them original but I've seen videos and visually demon souls 2020 is gorgeous compared to the original but after playing for about an hour I can't say it's a next gen showpiece. Visually the game could be done on a ps4pro or one X. It's a good game though.
Huh... Gotta disagree with that one. Nothing looks as good as demons souls imo, especially at 60fps. Nothing on PS4 pro looks anything like that. Not GOW, not spiderman, not TLOU2.

Demons is the only next gen game that looks like a next gen game. I think it's currently the best looking game ever?
 

sixamp

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God of War have places with lows textures and the FPS is no where near as smooth as Demon's Souls even on performance mode



If you are talking God of War having more detail character model, yes because games with established character will always have more detailed than avatar in character creation.
I'm saying that God of war and horizon look just as good if not better in areas. I see no reason why demon souls can't be on ps4 pro
 
Jun 23, 2020
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Not this again. No it couldn’t.
I agree with that dude. Obviously at 1080p/30fps, but my guess is that it could be done.

But hey come on, it's the first great title for the system, and we know new consoles take a year or two to show their full potential.
 

Danjin44

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I see no reason why demon souls can't be on ps4 pro
Because the FPS wouldn't as smooth as what we currently have and long load times with each death and going to new areas.
 

Azurro

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I never played them original but I've seen videos and visually demon souls 2020 is gorgeous compared to the original but after playing for about an hour I can't say it's a next gen showpiece. Visually the game could be done on a ps4pro or one X. It's a good game though.

No, it literally cannot, not at the visual level on display. A PS4 Pro or One X can't handle the asset sizes as it is much more limited in terms of asset streaming by an order of magnitude, it can't handle the high resolution textures, the amount of particles on screen, the 3D models with such a high triangle count, the realtime shadow calculation and so on and so forth.

If you like the design of Kratos or the design of the techno dinos in Horizon, that's fine, but technically this game is on another level.
 
Aug 28, 2019
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I'm saying that God of war and horizon look just as good if not better in areas. I see no reason why demon souls can't be on ps4 pro

Because your subjective opinion of what looks better has no bearing on the actual tech? Most of us don't even agree with you anyways.
 
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Well I get what the guy is trying to say and to an extent I agree. These launch titles dont look like a next gen leap. They look more like going from High settings to Ultra. So yes, this stuff couldn't be achieved on PS4 as in it probably wouldn't be able to run properly but graphically it looks like any good looking current gen title. Same goes for Miles Morales, the RT looks great but overall it does look like an expansion and not a compeltely different title. Horizon 2 looks crisp and vibrant but again, it doesnt look THAT much better than the original besides better textures and 4K. For reference check out the difference between Killzone 3 and Killzone Shadows Fall. Thats called a next gen leap. But then again, the further we go the visual fidelity will be less and less from generation to generation.

 

xPikYx

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Well I get what the guy is trying to say and to an extent I agree. These launch titles dont look like a next gen leap. They look more like going from High settings to Ultra. So yes, this stuff couldn't be achieved on PS4 as in it probably wouldn't be able to run properly but graphically it looks like any good looking current gen title. Same goes for Miles Morales, the RT looks great but overall it does look like an expansion and not a compeltely different title. Horizon 2 looks crisp and vibrant but again, it doesnt look THAT much better than the original besides better textures and 4K. For reference check out the difference between Killzone 3 and Killzone Shadows Fall. Thats called a next gen leap. But then again, the further we go the visual fidelity will be less and less from generation to generation.

Diminishing return is true, but we are not at that point yet, there is a lot lot more that can be improved in today's graphic
 

Alexios

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Would be interesting to see what all those outlets rated the original, which for all intents and purposes was equally good then, if not even better given gameplay is nearly intact and they rate it so highly this time around.

And no, 60 fps doesn't magically make a lesser game awesome plus all those outlets have rated 30 fps and less games great before, while the performance issues never made it unplayable anyway, every fan finished it just fine.

Edit: checking a handful they're close enough, most hadn't reviewed it at all, some had rated the original even a few decimals higher. Neat.
 
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fallingdove

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Such an amazing game. I was skeptical that it would recreate the 'feels' that I had with the original game but it has.
 

VFXVeteran

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Huh... Gotta disagree with that one. Nothing looks as good as demons souls imo, especially at 60fps. Nothing on PS4 pro looks anything like that. Not GOW, not spiderman, not TLOU2.

Demons is the only next gen game that looks like a next gen game. I think it's currently the best looking game ever?

Wow. So a remake of an old PS3 game with high res textures and dynamic shadows suddenly trumps every single PS4 game ever to grace the videogame sector? NONE of them can beat DeS in graphics? Detroit, Death Stranding, Bloodbourne, Order, DriveClub, UC4, Horizon, GoW, TLOU2, etc?? All because it has higher res textures, dynamic shadows and 60FPS?
 
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VFXVeteran

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No, it literally cannot, not at the visual level on display. A PS4 Pro or One X can't handle the asset sizes as it is much more limited in terms of asset streaming by an order of magnitude, it can't handle the high resolution textures, the amount of particles on screen, the 3D models with such a high triangle count, the realtime shadow calculation and so on and so forth.

If you like the design of Kratos or the design of the techno dinos in Horizon, that's fine, but technically this game is on another level.

Why do you think a game at it's maximum settings can't be downgraded for lower end systems? The 3rd party AAA games do this all the time with the PC downgrading graphics features to the consoles.

You can absolutely run this game on a PS4Pro.

1) Downres the textures only by 50% (i..e 4k -> 2k)
2) Lower the particle count
3) Lower the resolution to 1440p.
4) Can handle the 3D models, they aren't all that compared to other PS exclusive titles (in fact there are other games with higher poly count like HZD and TLOU2).
5) Realtime shadows of the main character's light source can stay in. They just need to reduce the shadow map resolution.

Everything else is standard fair. Standard PBR shaders (or lack thereof), SSAO, SSR, baked light maps for GI, etc..
 
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Azurro

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Why do you think a game at it's maximum settings can't be downgraded for lower end systems? The 3rd party AAA games do this all the time with the PC downgrading graphics features to the consoles.

You can absolutely run this game on a PS4Pro.

1) Downres the textures only by 50% (i..e 4k -> 2k)

It's not just texture size, the amount of information the system is streaming in from the SSD is much higher than what would be possible from the HDD and that's aside from the much lower RAM amount, so the asset variety would suffer a lot. Already just that change would change the look of the game by quite a bit.

Then you reduce particles, texture variety, the polygon models would also need to be simplified (the PS4 Pro can't handle as many polygon counts as the PS5, I don't know why you say this) and then you end up having a game that looks quite a bit different.

Watch the DF video with the developers, it's very interesting.

It's different from something like Watch Dogs Legion, that game looks completely current gen even on PC aside from Ray Tracing.
 
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This is the game to showcase power of Ps5. Bluepoint don’t have enough resource to make ps4 and ps5 version at the same time to release the game at launch. And I glad that they( or Sony) choose to focus on ps5 version.
 
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ikbalCO

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I've just watched ign's, gamespot's and easy allies' reviews back to back and the game looks absolutely amazing.

what i don't understand is praising the game, not saying anything bad and then giving a review score of 9/10?

like why? why not give the game a perfect score if you think the game is perfect.

is this an integrity thing? what is the reason behind this dumb scoring mentality?

i literally only care about individual channel's review like videogamedunkey. at least his scores and feelings towards a game align with each other.
 

Rien

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I've just watched ign's, gamespot's and easy allies' reviews back to back and the game looks absolutely amazing.

what i don't understand is praising the game, not saying anything bad and then giving a review score of 9/10?

like why? why not give the game a perfect score if you think the game is perfect.

is this an integrity thing? what is the reason behind this dumb scoring mentality?

i literally only care about individual channel's review like videogamedunkey. at least his scores and feelings towards a game align with each other.

Its a remake of a 2009 game. Besides graphics upgrade it’s pretty much the same as I understand.
Getting 9’s instead of 10’s are pretty valid to me.
 
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ikbalCO

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Its a remake of a 2009 game. Besides graphics upgrade it’s pretty much the same as I understand.
Getting 9’s instead of 10’s are pretty valid to me.

but aren't we creating a platform where remakes and remasters are reviewed out of 9, by accepting these scores as valid?

i mean from the looks of it, bluepoint put a lot of work and effort into building this remake from a ps3 game and i feel like in a way, their 2+ year commitment to a big project is diminished and not appreciated.

also a lot of the reviews i mentioned talks highly about the gameplay improvement bluepoint made in addition to graphics update.

p.s. maybe diminish is a strong word since the scores are generally high but i really dispise hearing all praise then seeing a cut score as if 10/10's belong to an exclusive club of games like they are the royalty.

p.ss also i see your point.
 
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Yoboman

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but aren't we creating a platform where remakes and remasters are reviewed out of 9, by accepting these scores as valid?

i mean from the looks of it, bluepoint put a lot of work and effort into building this remake from a ps3 game and i feel like in a way, their 2+ year commitment to a big project is diminished and not appreciated.

also a lot of the reviews i mentioned talks highly about the gameplay improvement bluepoint made in addition to graphics update.

p.s. maybe diminish is a strong word since the scores are generally high but i really dispise hearing all praise then seeing a cut score as if 10/10's belong to an exclusive club of games like they are the royalty.

p.ss also i see your point.
The biggest prevention from it being a 10 is we've seen evolutions of the formula in Dark Souls and Bloodborne

Still a phenomenal game though
 

VFXVeteran

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It's not just texture size, the amount of information the system is streaming in from the SSD is much higher than what would be possible from the HDD and that's aside from the much lower RAM amount, so the asset variety would suffer a lot. Already just that change would change the look of the game by quite a bit.

The dynamic tessellation in the game for the characters can absolutely be scaled to PS4. It's as simple as:

TesellationFactor = 5 ; for PS4

instead of

TessellationFactor = 10 ; for PS5

It's a switch attribute that reduces the approximation of triangles for curved surfaces. This technique is done all the time with 3rd party consoles and the PC.

SSR - same as any other game.

GI - dynamic light probes. (screenspace approach). Done with many games (i.e. Horizon: Zero Dawn)

HDAO - directional occlusion (screenspace approach). Done with a lot of AAA games (Tomb Raider)

SSD - loading times would suffer on PS4 for sure. The texture compression/decompression would take longer but I don't see it being impossible to run seeing as though you would scale down the texture sizes. They never mention any streaming system, so I'm not sure where that is coming from.

Geometry - they mentioned in the video max of 60k polys for a main character model.

God of War renders more:

The Kratos for God of War (PS4) has 80,000 polygons in total, with 32,000 for the face – 30x what we had for the PS2 models.
“That allowed us to create systems that could deform that geometry and achieve a level of detail for the muscles that we couldn’t do before. On top of that, we used a combination of layers of normal maps for smaller wrinkles and pores that we weren’t able to use in past generations because of the limitation of textures. Kratos (PS4) uses over 140 textures.”


Then you reduce particles, texture variety, the polygon models would also need to be simplified (the PS4 Pro can't handle as many polygon counts as the PS5, I don't know why you say this) and then you end up having a game that looks quite a bit different.

Texture variety stays the same. You don't limit the variety in a port. You limit it's resolution only. I would argue that Infamous:SS has more particle rendering than this game, so I don't see it required to be reduced but that's also possible.

My argument still stands that I believe this game can still be run on a PS4 easily and still look relatively the same. I also don't think this game is the best looking PS game ever made. I'm shocked that you guys would throw every single AAA developer that makes exclusives for the PS under the bus for best graphics when there is so much more to the graphics systems with the other games. Capsule AO in UC4/TLOU2 is still a better approximation and looks better than the typical AO that is used in this game, for example.
 

ikbalCO

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The biggest prevention from it being a 10 is we've seen evolutions of the formula in Dark Souls and Bloodborne

Still a phenomenal game though
yeah i get that. maybe i just have a problem with the wording of these reviews. i don't know.
 

Azurro

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VFXVeteran VFXVeteran , I'm pretty sure there's more to graphics engines than just setting some parameters higher and listing some definitions. The texture quality and variety would be impacted because not only do you only have ~5 GBs of RAM to work with, you have to hold the assets in memory for much longer since it takes that much longer to stream in assets from the HDD.

There would also be less light probes due to performance differences, while the particle simulation would be a lot simpler with less of them on screen. The game would simply look different, the artists would be more limited in what they can create due to the constraints of the last gen machines.

How different would it look? Well, you went through all of that napkin math while you have Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 as examples of what a current gen Souls game looks like. Does Demon's Souls look like that but in 4K 60 fps? Horizon looks great but in terms of detail it isn't close to what Souls is displaying.

You are welcome to your opinion, but with all due respect, you think Watch Dogs Legion is a great next gen game, when it looks almost the same as on current gen consoles just without ray tracing, so I'm not really going to take it very seriously.
 
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Airbus Jr

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My argument still stands that I believe this game can still be run on a PS4 easily and still look relatively the same. I also don't think this game is the best looking PS game ever made. I'm shocked that you guys would throw every single AAA developer that makes exclusives for the PS under the bus for best graphics when there is so much more to the graphics systems with the other games. Capsule AO in UC4/TLOU2 is still a better approximation and looks better than the typical AO that is used in this game, for example.

So what are you trying to achieve here?

Youre asking them to port this game to PS4 ?

Is that what youre trying to say?
 
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Phrixotrichus

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Gorgeous game, but after Dark Souls 3, Bloodborne and Sekiro the combat and the enemy AI feel a bit archaic and stiff, and the bosses absolutely pale in comparison, imho.

The world design is still top notch, though, and Bluepoint absolutely nailed the atmosphere and visual style for the remake.
 
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