Support NeoGAF

[evanft]

The internet was a mistake.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Halo Infinite was not developed as a launch title for Series X/S, it was just a Xbox One game that's taken a long time to develop so then they aimed to get it out for the new console launch and then do a Series X patch for it post launch. It didn't look impressive for a native next gen exclusive *because it isn't one*. It's a game that's been built around a 1.4TF Jaguar CPU 5400rpm HDD console while aiming for 60fps with an open world, and it would then run via BC on the X/S with higher resolution and better framerate thanks to the brute force of the new consoles. They even announced that the Series X patch that adds ray tracing would be coming post launch.

Infinite was never meant to be a launch title for a new console. It was meant to be a late gen xbox one game.

I just don't understand people saying sony knocked it out of the park by remastering a PS3 game, while also not giving MS props for having a dozen XB1 games ported to the new system with massive improvements.

You keep using the term remaster when it's a remake. And lots of PS4 games are seeing massive improvements as well, like a locked 60FPS for Crysis Remastered on PS5.

 

[Umbral]

Yet it sold out straight away, so they did pretty well wouldn't you think? MS aren't expecting any consoles on store shelves til potentially Q2 next year.

Without numbers this doesn’t tell us much. The Xbox One sold well initially too, but didn’t compare to PS4 no matter how hard they tried. It wasn’t even a contest.

343i is not "Xbox". "Xbox" doesn't need to clean house. 343i have clearly been given too much rope, and we can see they're now being pulled back into line and cleaned up. You seem to forget that 343i made Halo 5 this generation too, and MCC. They didn't only work on Infinite.

No, I’m not up on my 343 info, it’s all second-hand because I’m not an Xbox player. Microsoft has issues, clearly, as David Jaffe pointed out.

Demon's Souls is a remaster of a PS3 game. That's not debatable. It's the PS3 gameplay and level design and literally everything else, just with better graphics added.

You are intentionally playing fast and loose with language to minimize Demon’s Souls. It’s a remake from the ground up, a remaster would be The Last of Us: Remastered, i.e., resolution and frame rate bump.

Yes they launched Spider-Man etc.......but they also launched them on the PS4. You don't need a PS5 to play them. Demon's Souls can be played on PS3 and PC, the graphics will just be different.

The point is that they covered the markets for sales by having different types of games for different types of players. If you were at all interested in PS5, they made sure they had a game to fit your tastes. Games on PS5 you can’t get on Xbox: Demon’s Souls, Spiderman: Miles Morales, Sackboy, Astro’s Playroom, and Bugsnax. That’s the important part because Sony sells a copy no matter which system you get it on. You’re still playing it on a PlayStation.

Xbox launched with almost as many next gen exclusive games as Sony did - zero on MS's side, 1 on Sonys. Neither were great. MS had a dozen big updates to XB1 games that would classify as remasters in any other generation, they had the big AAA multiplatform games that will sell the best, and they sold every console they manufactured. They didn't need new first party games, clearly.

See above. My friends who bought Xboxes got AC: Valhalla and they weren’t exactly hyped. “I guess I’ll get Valhalla.” isn’t exactly a system seller. If Microsoft had stepped out with an amazing Halo: Infinite showing and blew everybody’s hair back, they’d be in a good position. As it stands, they hyped everyone up with trailers and then delayed it after disappointing their fans.

I don’t know why I‘m arguing this. I don’t care about Xbox.

 

[pratyush]

So this is the new thread for Xbox warriors? There is nothing wrong in what David said. Xbox has delivered on a lot of things but there are some glaring issues which they haven't yet addressed. Phil needed 7 billion bailout by Microsoft to address the situation. It's okay to criticize your favourite company.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Did they need first party launch games to show off the console? It sold out within hours. You can't walk in to a shop and buy the console, and you won't be able to until some time early next year. That to me says they didn't need to, at all.

What a nice pro consumer outlook there, remind me of this whenever you join on whatever upcoming (so not astroturfed) anti consumer Sony rant .

 

[MrFunSocks]

Without numbers this doesn’t tell us much. The Xbox One sold well initially too, but didn’t compare to PS4 no matter how hard they tried. It wasn’t even a contest.



No, I’m not up on my 343 info, it’s all second-hand because I’m not an Xbox player. Microsoft has issues, clearly, as David Jaffe pointed out.


You are intentionally playing fast and loose with language to minimize Demon’s Souls. It’s a remake from the ground up, a remaster would be The Last of Us: Remastered, i.e., resolution and frame rate bump.



The point is that they covered the markets for sales by having different types of games for different types of players. If you were at all interested in PS5, they made sure they had a game to fit your tastes. Games on PS5 you can’t get on Xbox: Demon’s Souls, Spiderman: Miles Morales, Sackboy, Astro’s Playroom, and Bugsnax. That’s the important part because Sony sells a copy no matter which system you get it on. You’re still playing it on a PlayStation.



See above. My friends who bought Xboxes got AC: Valhalla and they weren’t exactly hyped. “I guess I’ll get Valhalla.” isn’t exactly a system seller. If Microsoft had stepped out with an amazing Halo: Infinite showing and blew everybody’s hair back, they’d be in a good position. As it stands, they hyped everyone up with trailers and then delayed it after disappointing their fans.

I don’t know why I‘m arguing this. I don’t care about Xbox.

Again though - it sold out.

what did you want it to do, sell out more than it already did? Your friend still bought one even with being not hyped for any games, so why does it need a “system seller” when the system sold?!?

This isn’t hard to understand. It sold out without an exclusive “system seller”. It can’t have possibly sold any more consoles than it did. The second wave is also sold out. What would having halo as a launch game have accomplished sales wise for the console?

Do you get me? Your friend is the perfect example of what I’m saying - MS sold him a console that he supposedly didn’t even want any games for. That shows that they didn’t need a big exclusive first party game to sell the console, doesn’t it? Lol

 

[M1chl]

I enjoy good trolling but some of you, smh...

 

[Jaguar Victory]

The psychology of a fanboy is very interesting. You have managed to convince yourself that the only reason you got your new Xbox was to play old games and that it's absolutely fine to not get next generation games with your next gen console.

That's pretty impressive. You are harming your own interests because the brand you are attached to means more to you than the experiences it provides.

I'm playing Gears Tactics and Yakuza Like a Dragon. Two really good games. Then I've got Valhalla and Cyberpunk after that. Then the Destiny next gen patch drops. It's a great time to be a gamer.

 

[Bernkastel]

This is a console wars thread now.

 

[CAB_Life]

Why are we assuming Phil runs his own account? Almost everyone in a position of prominence has a social media manager.

For the record, I don’t think Jaffe is unjustified. Conversely, I also think it takes nearly a decade to build a stable of solid 1st party studios, so Phil and co are just playing catchup with Sony at this point; there’s very little that can be done to expedite that, too. You can buy studios, however, development time and building a competent management hierarchy and structure remains an insurmountable obstacle. MS didn’t even really start with a first party focus till the end of last gen. For me, I’m looking toward the 2022 horizon, realistically, before seeing what MS first party output is really like. I admire the fact that they pulled their flagship IP off the calendar rather than launching Halo to middling success and critical panning.

 

[DeeDogg_]

This is a crazy thread lol

 

[davidjaffe]

Yet it sold out straight away, so they did pretty well wouldn't you think? MS aren't expecting any consoles on store shelves til potentially Q2 next year.

343i is not "Xbox". "Xbox" doesn't need to clean house. 343i have clearly been given too much rope, and we can see they're now being pulled back into line and cleaned up. You seem to forget that 343i made Halo 5 this generation too, and MCC. They didn't only work on Infinite.

Demon's Souls is a remaster of a PS3 game. That's not debatable. It's the PS3 gameplay and level design and literally everything else, just with better graphics added.

Yes they launched Spider-Man etc.......but they also launched them on the PS4. You don't need a PS5 to play them. Demon's Souls can be played on PS3 and PC, the graphics will just be different.

Xbox launched with almost as many next gen exclusive games as Sony did - zero on MS's side, 1 on Sonys. Neither were great. MS had a dozen big updates to XB1 games that would classify as remasters in any other generation, they had the big AAA multiplatform games that will sell the best, and they sold every console they manufactured. They didn't need new first party games, clearly.



Do you think that maybe Phil Spencer blocked you for the same highlighted reason?

Perhaps; it would not surprise me and I would totally understand if he did.

Thing is, I don't care if the guy blocks me or not. Not cause 'fuck him', just cause I never followed him and don't know him personally so it's just, 'Ok...'

Hell, I'm genuinely kinda annoyed Dave Bautista blocked me. I think he's funny and cool and I dig his politics and I've never in my life had an interaction with him so who knows what that went down.

 

[NonPhixion]

Hopefully they can kiss and make up. Because Xbox would be the perfect place for Drawn to Death 2.

 

[FritzJ92]

It's cute to see another Xbox thread made by and filled with Sony fans, but the reality is that without Phil Spencer, more than probably the Xbox brand wouldn't even exist anymore.

Obviously there's plenty of people here who would be rapt if the brand stopped it's existence, some even have said it publicly and claim that the space of MS should be taken by whatever other big multinational (Google has made quite the entrance in the console market).

But for people who actually care about the brand, Phil still has credit and some of his movements are unequivocally in the good direction. Of course we all wanted next gen games in the launch window of the Xbox Series X, but the fact is that Phil had to fought for the survival of the brand during the Xbox One fiasco, had to rethink and change the entire direction of the Xbox brand and had to invest heavily in it's vision, a vision that should come to fruition in the mid-long term but that has already made the Xbox Series X the best sold MS console at launch.

The Halo Infinite fiasco is the result of having to change so abruptly your path. You needed a big franchise to sell the new console in it's launch, but the reality is that the game was being made years ago for the previous console, that console that was so underpowered and that almost made the brand dissapear.

If I was in Phil's position, I would have probably launched the game anyway and call it a day, a little more time of development isn't going to change how the game looks in a substantial way anyway. But it's hardly his fault that the game looks like how it looks.

Phil has bought a lot of studios, let's wait to see what fruits they give before we kill the man. Or the brand.

Thank you... a lot of complainers about Xbox not having a game, when clearly it's a last-minute decision to cancel Halo's original launch... There has been a plan, and plans get derailed... but by any measure, you guys want to use Phil has performed... Xbox name is relevant in the industry again, the company is making money, they are competitive in first-party studios, performance, and the only complaint is not having a launch game. Mind you, XB1 launched with some good games, that people gave no crap about because they wanted to talk performance, Kinect, and online check-ins.

Its the nature of the gaming industry, and the media to attack MS every move IMO, Halo was the first big game to announce a delay, followed by many other games on both camps. Ironically the energy went from criticism and became "take your time," (especially in Cyberpunks case).

Should MS have a 1st party game, yes, but would that game make the Xbox Series X sell more units, not really. They pretty much sold consols as they were making them. Also, if you are pre-ordering an Xbox or Playstation, I"m pretty sure you knew exactly what was coming.

 

[petran79]

I guess someone from HR informed Phil that he posts on Neogaf which is contrary to MS core values, hence the block.

 

[-MD-]

Which do you think is more likely?

A-That I literally blocked you for saying a copter in Twisted Metal was a bad idea?

B-I blocked you because of the way you chose to express that specific idea?

It takes a lot more than this for me to block people online. Either way hearing you agree that Talon was a bad idea 8+ years later was pretty funny.

 

[BeardGawd]

Sony just had more current gen games close to completion in the pipeline that were easy for them to "enhance" for next generation. Let's be real every single 1st party PS5 game could easily run on the PS4 baring resolution and a few effects. Just like Legions and Valhalla.

Halo Infinite was not developed as a launch title for Series X/S, it was just a Xbox One game that's taken a long time to develop so then they aimed to get it out for the new console launch and then do a Series X patch for it post launch. It didn't look impressive for a native next gen exclusive *because it isn't one*. It's a game that's been built around a 1.4TF Jaguar CPU 5400rpm HDD console while aiming for 60fps with an open world, and it would then run via BC on the X/S with higher resolution and better framerate thanks to the brute force of the new consoles. They even announced that the Series X patch that adds ray tracing would be coming post launch.

Infinite was never meant to be a launch title for a new console. It was meant to be a late gen xbox one game.

I just don't understand people saying sony knocked it out of the park by remastering a PS3 game, while also not giving MS props for having a dozen XB1 games ported to the new system with massive improvements.

Thinking about it you're probably right. Game was taking so long already and they saw the success of Nintendo with BoTW Switch/Wii U launch and figured they could do the same thing. Only problem is Xbox/PS gamers have a far higher expectation when it comes to graphics than Nintendo fans. Especially on a next-gen system.

 

[BeardGawd]

Which do you think is more likely?

A-That I literally blocked you for saying a copter in Twisted Metal was a bad idea?

B-I blocked you because of the way you chose to express that specific idea?

David you kind of got served some crow here. People ignore/block people for minuscule reasons and this shows you're no better. Thread is pointless now.

 

[kuncol02]

You can buy studios, however, development time

It's not even development time of their exclusives. Some of them still work on games they were working before purchase (Psychonauts 2, VR game from InXile) or released them recently (Wastelands 3, Outer Worlds).
There are only 2 things that MS could do outside of what they did now. Move Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 for next generation and not release any game for a year or push release of Series X for next year and loose whole generation without even fighting. In my opinion they chose best strategy from ones they had. That's how bad shape of XBox division was after Don Mattrick and Steve Balmer.

 

[Noboru Wataya]

B-I blocked you because of the way you chose to express that specific idea?

Tone deaf much?

 

[Jon Neu]

Now, with the hypocrisy in full sight for all to see and the thread doing a pretty interesting turn of events...

Will the same Sony fans that mocked and insulted Phil Spencer for having his feelings hurt hold davidjaffe to the same standards? Are they going to mock him and insult him for having his feelings hurt at the sight of a little bit of criticism?

We will see.

Not getting my hopes up, though.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Perhaps; it would not surprise me and I would totally understand if he did.

Thing is, I don't care if the guy blocks me or not. Not cause 'fuck him', just cause I never followed him and don't know him personally so it's just, 'Ok...'

Hell, I'm genuinely kinda annoyed Dave Bautista blocked me. I think he's funny and cool and I dig his politics and I've never in my life had an interaction with him so who knows what that went down.

Did Bautista block you around the same time, quite recently? He’s now in gears 5, so that could point to almost a company wide block list controlled by some media manager or something.

 

[namekuseijin]

Phil doesn't like VR, David loved Astro Bot

that was easy

 

[PaNaMa]

Safe bet Phil is painfully aware of their failure to produce a nextgen Halo game (or other Xbox in house title) to launch with Series X on day 1. It is perhaps the only thing MS did not get right for the Series X launch. Phil wears it every day, under his ironic shirt and ever tightening jacket.

Criticism is fair. And Phil i think in general has been an advocate of constructive criticism, and welcoming of feedback. There does come a tipping point tho, where negativity is no longer helpful. Like, message received, no need to retransmit ad nauseam. It's not the same as sticking your head in the sand - you have heard the message loud and clear. You are actively righting the wrong. Fixing the problem. Addressing the failure. And along comes this guy again, 3 months later, still hammering you about something very difficult, sensitive, complicated, and yes was embarassing for them.. As a company you have already very publicly acknowledged your game wasn't where it needs to be, and are actively addressing with the highest priority. More negativity at this point is just not helpful anymore.

Moreover, there's probably some kind of best practice where developers and execs don't come out publicly shitting on/deriding other people's work or setbacks. If you are 343 or whomever right now, working your ass off to get your pride and joy labour of love ship shape, and some dev is out there publicly taking a shit all over your lack of success, maybe your boss blocking the jerk and not giving him the time of day is also just a message of support to the team. Isn't right for the boss man to be publicly chummy with that guy.

 

[benjohn]

Do I get to vote too?!?!?

No, voters should remain impartial . that said we know you're right

 

[Umbral]

Again though - it sold out.

what did you want it to do, sell out more than it already did? Your friend still bought one even with being not hyped for any games, so why does it need a “system seller” when the system sold?!?

This isn’t hard to understand. It sold out without an exclusive “system seller”. It can’t have possibly sold any more consoles than it did. The second wave is also sold out. What would having halo as a launch game have accomplished sales wise for the console?

Do you get me? Your friend is the perfect example of what I’m saying - MS sold him a console that he supposedly didn’t even want any games for. That shows that they didn’t need a big exclusive first party game to sell the console, doesn’t it? Lol

If they only made 30,000 consoles and sold out, that’s not impressive. Again, without numbers, we don’t have much.

My friends bought it because they always buy Xbox and there’s next-gen hype. A purchase with remorse isn’t exactly a win for a company, though it is a win for the ledger if they don’t return it.

 

[Mod of War]

Knock off the console wars in this thread.

You know who you are, and you know I know who you are. Move along- or we can assist.

 

[Katajx]

davidjaffe hasn't made a good game since God of War so clearly he is in the wrong. <--- this is sarcasm, Phil is wrong.

Although I do think his original planned ending for GoW3 was pretty awesome.

The Twisted Metal game on PS3 was pretty great and underrated .

 

[jshackles]

This is what pops into my head when I read "Phillip Spencer"

"Please, call me Phil. Phillip Spencer was my father..."

 

[QuantumZebra]

Do we have an update on Phil's feelings?

 

[TheMay30thMan]

A clear win for the delusional.

Spoiler

You really think Phil gives a shit?

 

[ShadowLag]

This is actually some 4D chess going on right here.

Who blocks people on Twitter? Kamiya-san.

Phil blocks Jaffe. What does this tell you? Obviously in cahoots with Kamiya-san.

Now... why Jaffe specifically? It's quite obvious you see....

SCALEBOUND RETURNS!!! COMING TO XSX, DEVELOPED BY KAMIYA-SAN IN COLLABORATION WITH DAVID JAFFE!!!

SCOOP

 

[IfuckinghateReddit]

Who is in the wrong?

David Jaffe
Phil Spencer

Why not both.gif?

 

[ComputerBlue]

Do we have an update on Phil's feelings?

 

[Shmunter]

Do we know if Phil has blocked Digital Foundry yet?

 

[Relativ9]

The Twisted Metal game on PS3 was pretty great and underrated .

I actually really enjoyed Calling all Cars!, it was released during the honeymoon period consoles had with small indie downloadable games, so much character and style done with such a great execution. Stuff since has ramped it up a notch and what an indie game can be now is so much more, and looking back at some videos I doubt I would enjoy it as much now, but at the time I was really quite charmed by it.

 

[IbizaPocholo]

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Personally, I only had one launch exclusive for both consoles. Gears Tactics for Xbox Series X and Marvel's Spider Man: Miles Morales for PlayStation 5. The rest are of no interest to me.

 

[FranXico]

That will certainly convince Phil to unblock him.

 

[Banjo64]

Absolutely agree.

Quick resume, paired with the SSD, is the best quality of life feature this gen. It’s revolutionised how I play. Quick level of Streets of Rage 4, hop in to a race or 2 on Forza Horizon 4, fly in to Halo CE’s campaign and complete a level before jumping back in to where I left Fallen Order.

Having to load a game from scratch, even on the SSD, almost feels archaic already.

It’s incomparable to the PS5’s card system and anyone that says otherwise is kidding themselves.

 

[Shmunter]

Absolutely agree.

Quick resume, paired with the SSD, is the best quality of life feature this gen. It’s revolutionised how I play. Quick level of Streets of Rage 4, hop in to a race or 2 on Forza Horizon 4, fly in to Halo CE’s campaign and complete a level before jumping back in to where I left Fallen Order.

Having to load a game from scratch, even on the SSD, almost feels archaic already.

It’s incomparable to the PS5’s card system and anyone that says otherwise is kidding themselves.

Depends on your gaming preferences. Card system for multiplayer games is an ace where quick resume fails.

 

[Banjo64]

Depends on your gaming preferences. Card system for multiplayer games is an ace where quick resume fails.

Can you expand further on that please? I don’t own a PS5 yet.

In Gears 5 for example, I can just leave the game on the matchmaking menu, then when I start the game using quick resume I literally just have to press A once and I’ll be matchmaking.

Guessing on PS5 you can just launch the multiplayer directly from the UI?

 

[longdi]

wow he said the same thing i said before, about GPU+QR is like having a high quality buffet.

great minds think a like when it comes to great things.

SX just scream high quality presentation, from the shell to its OS.

 

[Shmunter]

Can you expand further on that please? I don’t own a PS5 yet.

In Gears 5 for example, I can just leave the game on the matchmaking menu, then when I start the game using quick resume I literally just have to press A once and I’ll be matchmaking.

Guessing on PS5 you can just launch the multiplayer directly from the UI?

On PS5 you get cards to launch directly into matchmaking type, e.g COD team deathmatch or domination, etc.

If you suspend on Xbox and resume you get the lost connection, reconnecting, then needing to navigate through the game menus to select match type.

 

[Banjo64]

On PS5 you get cards to launch directly into matchmaking type, e.g COD team deathmatch or domination, etc.

If you suspend on Xbox and resume you get the lost connection, reconnecting, then needing to navigate through the game menus to select match type.

Since they patched quick resume after week 1 or 2, this no longer happens. Same for Forza Horizon 4. It takes about 3 seconds to reconnect to the server, but it doesn’t boot you out of the matchmaking screen any more, it happens in the background.

 

[Bittermich]

On PS5 you get cards to launch directly into matchmaking type, e.g COD team deathmatch or domination, etc.

If you suspend on Xbox and resume you get the lost connection, reconnecting, then needing to navigate through the game menus to select match type.

Bullshit. Doesn’t happen to me at all.
Also, those cards need to be configured by the Developers. Some will chose not to configure those.
With Xbox the dev doesn’t need to do anything at all.

 

[PlayStaytion]

He's just getting high living as Kratos for a moment , calm down, you're still on earth.

 

[Shmunter]

Since they patched quick resume after week 1 or 2, this no longer happens. Same for Forza Horizon 4. It takes about 3 seconds to reconnect to the server, but it doesn’t boot you out of the matchmaking screen any more, it happens in the background.

3 seconds to connect to cod server? Wow, definitely not the case on PS5.

 

[Shmunter]

Bullshit. Doesn’t happen to me at all.
Also, those cards need to be configured by the Developers. Some will chose not to configure those.
With Xbox the dev doesn’t need to do anything at all.

That’s right, when you suspend a multiplayer match on Xbox everyone else suspends also and you resume right where you left off! Xbox....power your dreams!

 

[Warnen]

Feel that way as well, Sony will have great 1st party stuff but in the end gonna be playing a ton of stuff on Gamepass that I would never buy individually.

Sony and Nintendo for 1st party, Xbox for the rest.