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[SlimySnake]

I thought this was a fairly interesting discussion he had with his patreons. He says it probably wasnt worth the effort. Especially when they sacrificed the scale and cuts to big epic bosses in favor of intimacy.



Someone called it Pretentious hogwash (not Jaffe) and I agree. GOW is basically TLOU with Kratos, and Neil was able to create that intimacy without resorting to this nonsense no camera cut trend.

God of War is just a different franchise with a far larger scale and boss fights, and if this pointless exercise in achieve cinematic perfection is impacting the scale and the actual gameplay experience then it needed to be removed IMO. My heart sank when I saw Thor and Jogmunder fight in the distance from 3 miles away for a total of two seconds before thor sent him back in time. It was extremely underwhelming just like the entire finale when they had ragnorak come in and you dont even fight him. Was it because they ran out of time after creating a 50 hour campaign or because their ridiculous insistence of keeping the no camera cut rule kept them from doing anything too epic?

Jaffe didnt have an issue with the lack of a jump button and I didnt either, but it definitely limited some mobility in combat encounters.

Thoughts?

 

[Captain Toad]

Someone called it Pretentious hogwash

People will find something to bitch about no matter what.

What's next? "Oh, what, Sony? Now, you're suddenly too good to have us walking slowly down long, narrow paths? Gotta show off that precious SSD?? Cocky assholes."

 

[RagnarokIV]

Agreed.

MGSV is the only one to do it well. And that's because Kojima, for all his faults, is actually very damn good at directing scenes.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I just can’t stand the FOV in god of war 2018. It’s obnoxious. And the slow walk and chats are brutal.

 

[kikkis]

No camera cuts is just marketing "innovation", adds nothing in terms of story delivery.

 

[Hot5pur]

I largely agree, felt like the GoW reboot wasn't made for GoW fans. It became uncharted or TLoU with Kratos. The combat lost its fluidity and dimensionality and it just felt like a generic hack and slash. I suppose for people who liked collecting flowers or carrying around injured pigs it had something to offer.

 

[Gaiff]

No camera cut worked wonderfully for the first game because it was 100% Kratos and Atreus. It was garbage in the second game and made things a lot worse.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Would have loved the camera to pull back and have awesome cuts to show the scale we were used to with GOW. Should have been half the length and better direction, editing.

 

[RoadHazard]

I like it, it gives a sense of being there on the journey 100% of the way.

 

[tmlDan]

It definitely added intimacy that I preferred, the guy that said it was pretentious hogwash prob plays games to forget about his shitty life and wants to rip heads off as his form of therapy. There are other games for him.

Maybe its the ADHD generation that can't handle it, not sure.

Anyone who says its just Last Of Us is stupid, i won't even entertain that ridiculous comparison.

I do think a jump button could have added more diversity in the combat though.

 

[Cashon]

It definitely added intimacy that I preferred, the guy that said it was pretentious hogwash prob plays games to forget about his shitty life and wants to rip heads off as his form of therapy. There are other games for him.

Maybe its the ADHD generation that can't handle it, not sure.

Anyone who says its just Last Of Us is stupid, i won't even entertain that ridiculous comparison.

I do think a jump button could have added more diversity in the combat though.

Can you really not see the influence of The Last of Us on God of War (2018)? Especially in comparison to the rest of the series up to that point?

 

[Hugare]

It worked in GOW 2018 in order to show the bond between boy and Kratos. It served the story's purpose.

In Ragnarok, on the other hand, it made the game worse. The game needed a bigger scale, but they had to work around the camera limitation.

They should have ditched it for the sequel, but didnt have the balls to do it

 

[tmlDan]

Can you really not see the influence of The Last of Us on God of War (2018)? Especially in comparison to the rest of the series up to that point?

you mean the over the shoulder camera? thats the only comparison i can see.

otherwise, the entire game is different

 

[Cashon]

you mean the over the shoulder camera? thats the only comparison i can see.

otherwise, the entire game is different

It's different in that you don't play as Joel and you don't have a girl named Ellie following you around, yes.

But if you think critically, just a little, you'll see the myriad of influences that The Last of Us had on God of War.

As an example:
A tale of an adult going on a dangerous journey with a child, while dealing with various psychological components of parenthood. The game is more focused on story that gameplay, often having the player simply push forward on the left stick as the characters slowly walk and talk, to progress the narrative. The gameplay is from an over-the-shoulder perspective and sometimes involves climbing.
Which game am I describing?

 

[DrFigs]

it's fine

 

[mitch1971]

you mean the over the shoulder camera? thats the only comparison i can see.

otherwise, the entire game is different

You don't see the sudden serious tone brought over to GOW from TLOU? Kratos suddenly having sensitive feelings and not the angry ravage that he was. Gone goes the bombastic nature of the game (not played ragnorok), the stupidly oversized monster fights, and widescreen set pieces, to the sudden protective nature of kratos and the intimacy of the story. Even the obvious man and a child simularities. Uncharted 4 did the very same. Both became over bloated because of it. The influence of TLOU is smothered over both games to the point where the previous entries were a lot more enjoyable to play.

 

[SeraphJan]

Although I like the original action packed GoW from David Jaffe better than the new ones, but I have to admit after he started his Youtube channel, he has been making attention grab and cilckbaity content.

He should make his own game once again instead of bitching about other people's work.

 

[SlimySnake]

Would have loved the camera to pull back and have awesome cuts to show the scale we were used to with GOW. Should have been half the length and better direction, editing.

The thing is that the cronos fight in GOW3 is mostly a single shot when they are in gameplay. They pull back the camera several times in this fight to show cronos.

The intro and the finale pre-rendered cutscenes are the only times they show cuts and yes, its done to sell the scale but obviously its way better than anything in the last two god of wars.

 

[Danjin44]

To me it just doesn’t work especially they decided add RPG elements in to this game, so every time you go to your inventory to change gear or checking out your map it cuts to entirely different screen and whole one shot illusion breaks, Dead Space did better job.

Also the whole one shot it just pointless in video game because you are not gonna able to play it in one go.

 

[deriks]

Thoughts?

Old Kratos is way better and would kill this bitch ass "it's a script, not a game script" Kratos in a few hits (with jumps)

 

[SmokedMeat]

Old God of War: Play for the sweet action and huge spectacle boss battles.

Modern God of War: Play for the story of Kratos and the challenges of parenting

 

[Pasta la Vista]

I definitely miss those huge set pieces and massive boss fights that came from the original series of games.
I ended up really enjoying 2018 God of War for what it was. I just assumed that they didn't do any of the huge boss fights because they were going to save it for the sequel and they were just testing the waters to see how the new take on the series would be received.
Ragnarok was a huge disappointment for me. They doubled down on the buddy system and made some terrible decisions with the pacing. I've also had enough of the constant banter. If this continues to be the direction of the series going forward I am out.

 

[Cashon]

To me it just doesn’t work especially they decided add RPG elements in to this game, so every time you go to your inventory to change gear or checking out your map it cuts to entirely different screen and whole one shot illusion breaks, Dead Space did better better job.

Also the whole one shot it just pointless in video game because you are not gonna able to play it in one go.

Dead Space absolutely did a better job.

 

[Danjin44]

Dead Space absolutely did a better job.

It really did, when you are using inventory or looking at your map or even saving your game, it never cuts, you always in the game.

 

[Cashon]

It really did, when you are using inventory or looking at your map or even saving your game, it never cuts, you always in the game.

It also just works better for Dead Space, conceptually. There's no need to cut away to anything more epic in scope, because the experience is supposed to be relatively small and claustrophobic. But then even so, the game still manages to show some size and scope that conveys immensity of certain things/spaces.

 

[Xtib81]

No camera cut is 100% pointless. You don't need that to create intimacy.
The no jump Button is a big issue for me. I'm fucking Kratos, god slayer, but I can't climb that 1 meter-high wall or walk over that rock because I just can't.. how does that make sense? that's just terrible dated game design and I hate it.

 

[Thirty7ven]

My thoughts are simple, GOW 18 and Ragnarok make the previous God of Wars look and feel like cartoons made for 16 year olds.

Dems the breaks

 

[OCASM]

Looking at a person's back for 20 hours doesn't create intimacy. It's purely pretentious BS.

 

[Dr. Claus]

To me it just doesn’t work especially they decided add RPG elements in to this game, so every time you go to your inventory to change gear or checking out your map it cuts to entirely different screen and whole one shot illusion breaks, Dead Space did better job.

Also the whole one shot it just pointless in video game because you are not gonna able to play it in one go.

I would argue it did work in 2018. The game was shorter, more focused, and it felt natural to have this trip be done in a single shot. Everything felt like it was well designed around this limitation and took advantage of it.

Then they said "Fuck it" in Ragnarok and made everything 30 times worse.

 

[Beer Baelly]

davidjaffe in the cut lookin the alerts stack up in his tab.

 

[Danjin44]

I would argue it did work in 2018. The game was shorter, more focused, and it felt natural to have this trip be done in a single shot.

The problem is the whole one shot is only within in the cutscenes but during actual gameplay when go to inventory to change gear the camera cuts to new screen. If the game had diegetic UI similar to Dead Space then it would have worked much better.

Yeah I agree Ragnarok make things much worse.

 

[Madflavor]

For the story of an intimate journey between a father and son, it absolutely worked.

My issue is the camera angle fucks you over by not being able to see enemies and projectiles coming from anywhere but the front. It’s not too bad until you get to the harder difficulties. That 3 at once Berserker fight was such bullshit.

 

[sainraja]

It's different in that you don't play as Joel and you don't have a girl named Ellie following you around, yes.

But if you think critically, just a little, you'll see the myriad of influences that The Last of Us had on God of War.

As an example:
A tale of an adult going on a dangerous journey with a child, while dealing with various psychological components of parenthood. The game is more focused on story that gameplay, often having the player simply push forward on the left stick as the characters slowly walk and talk, to progress the narrative. The gameplay is from an over-the-shoulder perspective and sometimes involves climbing.
Which game am I describing?

This seems like an exaggeration to me. The sequences are there, but they are not that often where it overstays its welcome, and it is a nice break between combat scenarios. Did we play the same game? I have done the main campaign and all side missions, minus the Crucible ones.

Outside of that, I agree with the similarities you are pointing out, but IMO it made Kratos somewhat "fresh" from who he used to be. I do miss the old Kratos but they couldn't repeat the same thing again; who would be need to be angry at again?

In the original trilogy, God of War surprised us by revealing that Kratos isn't exactly a hero. You can only do that once though so making him a father, making him responsible, almost achieves that. Specially when you know what led him down the revenge path to begin with (be the one responsible for his own family's death).

 

[El Muerto]

Sony exclusives are becoming like Marvel movies. Just big budget media being pumped out with no soul or creativity. The same formula over and over with different coats of paint. Ragnarok definitely felt like a downgrade though.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

In 50 years of videogame discussion among players, not once did someone say "I hope they do 0 camera cuts in the next game."

100% pretentious BS by people obsessed with the film industry.

 

[Dr. Claus]

The problem is the whole one shot is only within in the cutscenes but during actual gameplay when go to inventory to change gear the camera cuts to new screen. If the game had diegetic UI similar to Dead Space then it would have worked much better.

Yeah I agree Ragnarok make things much worse.

I think you are one of the only ones who has an issue with going to a menu screen and thinking that removes the concept of "single shot". The core story and narrative is all done in one continuous shot. Pausing a game, changing settings, etc doesn't make that suddenly go away.

 

[The artful mincer]

I appreciate the the camera in the combat despite the issues it may have.

It creates this cool hybrid combat where you can easily switch from ranged to melee in the blink of an eye.

No other action game does this I think it makes modern god of war feel unique. The single shot I can take or leave a bit of a gimmick

 

[01011001]

he's not in the business of designing good games anymore, he's in the business of making themepark rides that with zero friction for the "player"

 

[The artful mincer]

The thing is that the cronos fight in GOW3 is mostly a single shot when they are in gameplay. They pull back the camera several times in this fight to show cronos.

The intro and the finale pre-rendered cutscenes are the only times they show cuts and yes, its done to sell the scale but obviously its way better than anything in the last two god of wars.

Meh this fight is so overrated. Okay it looks cool but that's about it. Gameplay wise its the weakest boss in GOW3 not to mention making Chronos act like a complete idiot to allow Kratos to win

 

[Danjin44]

I think you are one of the only ones who has an issue with going to a menu screen and thinking that removes the concept of "single shot". The core story and narrative is all done in one continuous shot. Pausing a game, changing settings, etc doesn't make that suddenly go away.

Fair, This mostly my own personal issue, I guess most dont care about it, I personally like how Dead Space did it compare to GOW 2018/Ragnarok.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

It's too perfect that they had to make up shit as negatives.

 

[Beastclaw Raider]

My thoughts are simple, GOW 18 and Ragnarok make the previous God of Wars look and feel like cartoons made for 16 year olds.

Dems the breaks

This
As much as I enjoyed the previous god of wars, they now feel like games for pre-teens compared to 18 and Ragnarok

 

[Fredrik]

No camera cuts can be cool, especially in a game like Cyberpunk where it makes it more immersive.

But not being able to jump even over a bit of rubble, and then being forced to walk around a big area or find specific climbing spots to traverse, is annoying.

 

[mitch1971]

Old God of War: Play for the sweet action and huge spectacle boss battles.

Modern God of War: Play for the story of Kratos and the challenges of parenting

I know which one I prefer.

 

[RaduN]

Agreed.

MGSV is the only one to do it well. And that's because Kojima, for all his faults, is actually very damn good at directing scenes.

MGSV's brilliant ones shot cutscenes also had, like nearly all things in Kojima games, an ulterior motive for being so:
You have all this cutting edge artistic, bombastic one-shot direction for the entire Venom story, and the moment Big Boss comes into the story, at the very end, the cinematogaphy turns old school, non flashy and familiar.

 

[Games of Today]

I thought this was a fairly interesting discussion he had with his patreons. He says it probably wasnt worth the effort. Especially when they sacrificed the scale and cuts to big epic bosses in favor of intimacy.



Someone called it Pretentious hogwash (not Jaffe) and I agree. GOW is basically TLOU with Kratos, and Neil was able to create that intimacy without resorting to this nonsense no camera cut trend.

God of War is just a different franchise with a far larger scale and boss fights, and if this pointless exercise in achieve cinematic perfection is impacting the scale and the actual gameplay experience then it needed to be removed IMO. My heart sank when I saw Thor and Jogmunder fight in the distance from 3 miles away for a total of two seconds before thor sent him back in time. It was extremely underwhelming just like the entire finale when they had ragnorak come in and you dont even fight him. Was it because they ran out of time after creating a 50 hour campaign or because their ridiculous insistence of keeping the no camera cut rule kept them from doing anything too epic?

Jaffe didnt have an issue with the lack of a jump button and I didnt either, but it definitely limited some mobility in combat encounters.

Thoughts?

Finally someone else mentioning that Thor vs Jogmunder fight scene.

Can I just say, WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT!?

They build that up through some really awesome foreshadowing in both games and then waste the incredible potential of that one a tiny little gameplay cutscene in the background.

I was so disappointed. Jogmunder tells Atreus that he looks familiar to him in 2018 and then in Ragnorok, Atreus and Angrboda basically birth Jogmunder together.

It would have been so fucking sick if Kratos and Atreus were running on Jogmunder's back or something while fighting Thor. And the player would be involved first hand as you watch him get ripped through the time portal in front of your eyes. Atreus reaching out and screaming "NO!" at the loss of his (Loki's) dear friend/child. Such a shame.

It would have really made the cost of war hit home.

 

[SlimySnake]

Finally someone else mentioning that Thor vs Jogmunder fight scene.

Can I just say, WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT!?

They build that up through some really awesome foreshadowing in both games and then waste the incredible potential of that one a tiny little gameplay cutscene in the background.

I was so disappointed. Jogmunder tells Atreus that he looks familiar to him in 2018 and then in Ragnorok, Atreus and Angrboda basically birth Jogmunder together.

It would have been so fucking sick if Kratos and Atreus were running on Jogmunder's back or something while fighting Thor. And the player would be involved first hand as you watch him get ripped through the time portal in front of your eyes. Atreus reaching out and screaming "NO!" at the loss of his (Loki's) dear friend/child. Such a shame.

It would have really made the cost of war hit home.

You have a better imagination than the devs over at SSM who were too focused on creating intimacy using no-cut cutscenes and literally hours of walking segments.

 

[Games of Today]

You have a better imagination than the devs over at SSM who were too focused on creating intimacy using no-cut cutscenes and literally hours of walking segments.

Haha it's a curse man. I have tons of wild ideas as I'm sure most people do but no real creative talent in regards to creating an actual videogame.

I mean hey, I'm all for intimate stories, I actually loved GoW 2018. But Ragnorok should have played like GoW 3 while continuing the story of 2018.

Don't even get me started on not being able to actually fight the Ragnorok giant. That was just a pure kick in the balls.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Ragnaroks biggest offense for me is how Ragnarok was shit, you build up to this event for 4+ years and then its a piece of shit level with some fighting in the background. There was so much more that couldve been done with such an awesome setting and build up.

 

[Barakov]

I just can’t stand the FOV in god of war 2018. It’s obnoxious. And the slow walk and chats are brutal.

Yup. This is the result of Gears Of War's slow walk while talking. From what I remember they were just a mild annoyance in the first three games of that series while they're really obnoxious in God Of War 2018. It's up there with real time cutscenes that you can't skip as far as things I don't like about modern games.