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Dad gets nearly $8,000 bill after son racks up charges from microtransactions in FIFA
- Thread starter Enter the Dragon Punch
- Start date
Oh hey, it's this old thread aga-
Wait a second this is new? How many times a month does this happen now? Something's seriously fucked up, whether it's the people, the cards, the games or the systems.
I mean, I instantly get a SMS if I so much as spend 10 cents with my card, why do people not have this set up as well?
Wait a second this is new? How many times a month does this happen now? Something's seriously fucked up, whether it's the people, the cards, the games or the systems.
I mean, I instantly get a SMS if I so much as spend 10 cents with my card, why do people not have this set up as well?
mpafighter
Member
What his dad's reaction looks like after seeing his bill
What the son needs instead of FIFA
What the son needs instead of FIFA
You were giving an example of if a kid steals a cc off his Dad, your example didn't mention anything about it being $8000. Regardless, if it was a lowish amount I'd expect it back, especially when he is of an age where he can earn money himself.
Maybe it's different in the US, but that would NOT be a reasonable excuse to get your money back in the UK.
PedroPanache
Member
My mate once stole £20 from his mum's purse to buy us all Transformers stickers for our sticker albums. He was grounded for the best part of a year. Shit's got more sophisticated over the years. Now parents will just willingly give you their credit card details for "emergencies".
KojiKnight
Member
UK retailers don't allow you to return merchandise? That seems pretty anti-consumer...
They aren't obliged to give you your money back unless the goods are faulty/unfit for purpose. Although a lot of retailers do allow returns as part of their own policy.
Kid is a gambling addict. Dad is enabling. EA are shamelessly exploitive.
It's not as black and white as "hurr hurr suuure he thought it was one time, lrn2finance newb." Addiction doesn't work like that.
Nothing will change until the wrong person's kid becomes an addict and someone gets motivated to regulate.
It's not as black and white as "hurr hurr suuure he thought it was one time, lrn2finance newb." Addiction doesn't work like that.
Nothing will change until the wrong person's kid becomes an addict and someone gets motivated to regulate.
Of course, but going back to the store and telling them your son used your credit card without your permission isn't a reasonable reason to get your money back.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Depending on what you've bought and the shop you don't even always need a reason.
Of course when the bill is in the thousands that's probably not the case.
But I suspect a fair number of shops would accept refunds as long as the goods are unused and non perishable. When it comes to digital content the line is ill defined as to where liability should fall.
The kid should have known better as should the father but it's potentially a ruined life for the family depending on how bad the financial situation for them is vs a drop in the bucket for EA.
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
People used to be wed and bred at like 15, starting families and carrying life or death responsibilities. You don't get to go BUT IM A KID I HAD NO IDEA...
What does the microtransaction screen look like? Do you have to fill a wallet and then pay out of it or is every charge listed as you accept it?
What does the microtransaction screen look like? Do you have to fill a wallet and then pay out of it or is every charge listed as you accept it?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Casinos are regulated, though.
In Canada at least they plaster how addicting gambling is every where in BC casinos.
You don't want deceptive practices. Saying it's the customers fault really shows how ignorant you are of how gambling addiction works.
TheAssist
Member
Seems like the perfect storm. Everything that can go wrong went wrong.
A kid that is either stupid or a liar, but probably both. A dad that just gives his credit card away (why. why?). Also no parental controls on that xbox. The father didnt catch wind of what was happening with his account.
Apparently no clear ruling about what to do if a minor spends that much money? Someone needs to educate me on EU law here, its been a while for me.
But arent contracts void if made by minors? At least until the age of 14 (wouldnt matter in this case, I know). But how is it handled if the kid is 17. He cannot be accused of fraud, or can he? I think he needs to be 18 for this, its not like he was killing someone.
And I would like to see what actually happens in game when you buy a pack. Do you type in you credit card info once and then it never asks again? Is there a pop up that explicitly says that you will be charged money from your account (I dont play FIFA)?
Also there should be a restriction as to how much you can spend in those games to protect people with gambling addiction. Its funny how every casino has much stricter rules than any videogame.
A kid that is either stupid or a liar, but probably both. A dad that just gives his credit card away (why. why?). Also no parental controls on that xbox. The father didnt catch wind of what was happening with his account.
Apparently no clear ruling about what to do if a minor spends that much money? Someone needs to educate me on EU law here, its been a while for me.
But arent contracts void if made by minors? At least until the age of 14 (wouldnt matter in this case, I know). But how is it handled if the kid is 17. He cannot be accused of fraud, or can he? I think he needs to be 18 for this, its not like he was killing someone.
And I would like to see what actually happens in game when you buy a pack. Do you type in you credit card info once and then it never asks again? Is there a pop up that explicitly says that you will be charged money from your account (I dont play FIFA)?
Also there should be a restriction as to how much you can spend in those games to protect people with gambling addiction. Its funny how every casino has much stricter rules than any videogame.
Pathfinder
Member
There are already plenty of warnings when you attempt to buy content from Xbox Live. They warn you how much it costs, that it'll get charged immediately to your account, that there's no refunds, etc. There's even security measures that can be set to prevent minors from making purchases without adult supervision. There is nothing deceptive about it. It's all spelled out for you.
If you happen to ignore those warnings or don't use the security measures, well... Who else is to blame? At what point do you feel the customer becomes responsible for themselves?
Do we really want the government or some higher authority to come and regulate our hobby, or should we start acting like responsible consumers and stop crying every time some moron and his kid overspend?
No, I didn't. So yeah, you've misunderstood.
The premise at the beginning of my posts, right at the start, was that this is all true unless we admit games are as addictive as booze or gambling.
Devilgunman
Member
Many other countries in the world don't accept return as well. Heck, some stores in Japan won't accept cancellation of the pre-order.
Hari Seldon
Member
This gambling shit should be outlawed entirely from video games, or at least if a game has it it should be rated AO. If the industry doesn't crack down on this congress will. This is just gambling except instead of occasionally having to pay out money, the casino just gives away a few meaningless bits.
Right? What the hell is going on now days? I'd have to leave the house and get 3 jobs to pay it off immediately. I don't know anything about the gambling stuff, but I hear people paying thousands for guns on counter strike or whatever. What in the actual hell is up with gaming?
Got my credit card at 18. Thankfully they put a limit on your credit card if you're a young adult with no money.
What? I'm not in the UK (Canada), but it I buy something and it is hasn't been used I can return it for refund without giving any reason at all. Unless the sale is explicitly binding, which is sometimes the case for clearance items, then you can always return within the proper window (usually 14-30 days).
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Bought from stolen money? I'm quite certain this is a reason to get your money back in exchange for the goods in almost every civilized country.
curiouscharles
Member
It is very clear when spending money on Xbox, just how much you're spending, and the fact that you're being charged.
This kid is a dick, and his dad is suffering for it.
Eff you kid, eff you.
[#pah plz understand]
This kid is a dick, and his dad is suffering for it.
Eff you kid, eff you.
[#pah plz understand]
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Until deceptive practices are used to get people to spend hundreds of dollars of gambling items then it's still the developers fault.
Your hobby can be super deceptive and prey on those who may have an addiction to gambling. There's a reason why these items exist in games: those without the willpower to stop will keep buying because the great prize is in the next box.
Krappadizzle
Gold Member
So where you live you can buy something with someone else's credit card and if they find out and go to return the product they can't because reasons?
If this was some hidden or unknown addition, that you spend money on by just pressing a button, then yeah it would be deceptive.
But the guy here had to go through multiple confirmation pages of "Do you want to buy this? "This will be charged to credit card XXXX" and so on.
Someone in here even calculated that he had to go though this at least 80 times, to spend as much as $8k.
There's nothing deceptive about this. Much less when like Mass Effect, Garden Warfare and other EA games that have similar additions, can be earned by playing the game.
Going to throw your kid in jail then? If you are citing returning an object that was clearly marked no return because it was stolen then the store and/or credit card would certainly want to prosecute.
Btw. Where's all the gaming gambling outrage for the years of magic the gathering booster packs? Same concept no? Trying to complete your deck by spending a never ending amount of money on packs to get that rare card.
metareferential
Member
Well, after 8k maybe something came out of those packs xD
Opening pack is useless but it sure is fun as hell.
The little scumbag should pay. Get him to work at McDonalds' or whatever this summer.
The father though...how do we say? The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
3. Don't give a kid a free reign over a $8k+ limit card, lol.
That's why devices come with instruction manuals. It doesn't matter what it was, my parents were all over the ins and outs of everything I got as a kid. My sister is the same way with her kids.
"Great, you got a new toy. Let me look at it before I let you play with it."
Does anyone believe that a typical parent would just buy something for a kid and say "Go to town, I don't need to know anything about it?"
The story says the CC company told the dad that he could get the charges reversed if he claimed that the card was used fraudulently.
He didn't want to do so because he didn't want to get his son in trouble. A fraud claim of $8000 would likely mean getting the police involved.
If the use wasn't fraudulent though, it was authorized. And if it was authorized use, the CC company isn't going to do a chargeback.
The card packs are not used for the main game. You get access to all of the players, just like any other sports game.
These card packs are for a specific, optional, CCG mode within the main game. It's similar to Magic or Hearthstone in that regard. You can slowly earn in-game credits by playing in order to buy booster packs, or you can use real money to buy them.
These cards don't have any impact on the main game though. Everyone is on an even playing field there. In the CCG mode, building the best "deck" is part of the strategy.
If you gave your credit card to a 17 year old and he ordered up a bunch of trading cards or action figures from a store and opened them up, the store isn't going to take them back.
On Xbox One, every single purchase must be confirmed. This includes the payment method as well as the price.
You can't do one-click purchasing. Besides, doesn't Amazon have a patent on that?
All you need is an addictive personality and spending someone else's money would be easy.
I agree that there's no way the dad thinks the son didn't know what he was doing, this probably seemed like the best way to try and get back the money. A lot people seem to view these types of things as black and white but for me it's more a grey area. Yes, he was incredibly stupid to spend it and yes, the parents should do more to prevent it but it would seem excessive to saddle the parent with that much debt. The dad should be refunded and the son hit with the bill. Having to pay that back over the next however many years would be a lesson learned.
FIFA UT does have that type of 'one more go' vibe to it and certainly most people can control it, but not all. And if that is the case then creating extra measures to protect those people isn't a bad thing.
I agree that there's no way the dad thinks the son didn't know what he was doing, this probably seemed like the best way to try and get back the money. A lot people seem to view these types of things as black and white but for me it's more a grey area. Yes, he was incredibly stupid to spend it and yes, the parents should do more to prevent it but it would seem excessive to saddle the parent with that much debt. The dad should be refunded and the son hit with the bill. Having to pay that back over the next however many years would be a lesson learned.
FIFA UT does have that type of 'one more go' vibe to it and certainly most people can control it, but not all. And if that is the case then creating extra measures to protect those people isn't a bad thing.
while i do think the kid knew what he was doing......
do not underestimate how dumb people are. I worked in a call center to support a cell phone company and i had a phone call once.. where the person wanted to know how come her phone wasn't turning on. Doing basic troubleshooting i asked her if she has been charging her phone... and her response...
"oh, you have to charge this?"
after that.. i learned that common sense wasn't so common anymore.
do not underestimate how dumb people are. I worked in a call center to support a cell phone company and i had a phone call once.. where the person wanted to know how come her phone wasn't turning on. Doing basic troubleshooting i asked her if she has been charging her phone... and her response...
"oh, you have to charge this?"
after that.. i learned that common sense wasn't so common anymore.
Tangentially related by combining a few posts in this thread, I find the idea that you can buy a MTG booster pack, be unhappy with its contents and return it for a refund hilarious enough that I wish it'd become the norm just to see how long MTG itself lasted as a franchise and a business.
How do you return a consumed product? "Hey, my kid used my credit card and bought a bunch of candy. I'd like my money back. There's no candy anymore, but..."
...you can have the kid if you want.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Unfortunately, these games don't bill as "hey, let's spend way more than needed", and that's what makes it deceptive. There's no, "hey, you don't need to purchase this for the 80th time as one will do." It feeds off open endlessness and the need to get the best reward for your buck; this is how gamblers rationalize spending more. Until games acknowledge the toxicity of F2P boxes then it will always be on them because they're using these tactics to milk money from people.
You can say people are totally aware but then you're not understanding how gambling addiction works. I worked for a game company where capsules were sold, every update (2 weeks) the prizes would rotate and a great prize would be #1. They were consistently the best seller. You didn't even need 8/10 items in it because, well, they were stuff you gained from just playing a single match. The term "whale" is used often by the way.
Yeah, I understand and have worked with simiar situations.
But I still wouldn't say deceived. Not on this case at least, were is more than obvious than is a combination of either feigning ignorance to not admit fault, and trying to get attention from the media to have some siding with them, and have more possibilities of a compensation (or in this case, not pay anything).
Is like that father that bought an used 3DS on Gamestop for his son, and found porn on it. Gamestop ammended that when he returned it, gave him another along games plus other bonuses; and he still went to the local news and had the kid crying on it at the mention of porn, while talking about it ruining christmas.
Seems they are the ones trying to deceive others. Because is easier to blame the big evil corporation while crying foul and pretending to not know; than to blame his son for such spending behavior, or himself for giving a credit card with a relatively high spending limit to his underage son (and is has nothing to do with trust or anything. I work since I was 13 years old and got my first credit card at 17, for college, co-signed with my mother and with a spending limit of $250).
And I'm the kind that always side with people. But there are situations that, well...people are people.
Some might try to study his psycological behavior, possibilities of an adddiction or mental problems, when many cases are not as gray and some just do things because they know there won't be consequences.
But we don't know many details about this kid, so if the kid does have possible gambling problems, the parents should've taken care of that before going to the media. But there's nothing on the article that shows them worried about that.
If I was Microsoft, I'll refund 50% and ban the account and then if I was the father, I'll put the kid to work on chores or side jobs to start paying for the other half, until he can legally get a better job to continue paying. Is the only way he might learn. Taking his Xbox, when he can do the exact same on his phone, tablet or computer won't do much; if such gambling addiction does exist.
this is the only solution to the problem. the people who want the government to step in and stop people from being able to buy goods digitally and i presume physical card packs as well are absolute ridiculous.
ugh_the_boot
Banned
I'd like to hear one good reason why these player packs in Fifa are randomized? Why can't a consumer spend $100 - $200 and get everything they need? Why is there a neverending chance to be able to spend real money on this sorta stuff?
I don't think a lot of people understand the mind of a 17 year old, a lot of the time they are thinking "Yea I know it's wrong but will deal with the consequences later". I used to be like this, almost all my friends were like this so seeing this sorta outcome isn't too far fetched the problem here is companies like EA who deliberately engineer their products to allow these sort of 'mistakes' to slip through....they have absolutely zero liability. What is stopping them from making the packs $1,000,000 each? Would any of you have a problem with it if they made a single pack purchase 1 million dollars? Because from the sounds of some people on this thread we should just let these scummy bastards do whatever the fuck we want, it's up to us to try and elicit some sort of self control or good parenting. With all the amount of stuff an everyday working adult has to deal with nowadays you would think people would be a little more sympathetic to everyday people being exploited like this. EA are in the wrong becase they are deliberately targeting morons like this father and son.
There should a limit on how much you can spend on MT, I don't know a single person that would be ok with spending $8k on this crap and I guarantee no one here does either. Even if you were a hella rich bastard you still would not want to spend this kinda cash. After spending $200 or so the last pack you buy should just fill in the blanks in your roster. The game should be structured intelligently and not deceptively.....sure make the chances to get certain players very rare but after spending a certain amount the game should just cough up the missing players.
This is all gonna change very soon, a couple more horror stories like this and pretty soon we are going to see it being regulated and the fault will be on EA not on the public. We should be looking at EA to change the way it does things so that we don't start having bullshit regulations placed on our games but what choice do we have when people are being exploited?
There is a reason almost every single law/rule out there exists - either because of morons complaining, morons gettiong hurt or morons being exploited, this is human history when something happens enough times we bring in laws to control an unwanted outcome. This shit will be regulated sooner or later because EA have structured their game to take advantage of a system that allows them to do this. EA do not spend a single cent when these packs are bought, it is 100% profit so why the hell are they randomized? They have nothing to lose with this kinda setup so they will keep doing it until the rules force them to change, I feel pity to those people that have no problem giving companies like this their money. We should be building a society to weed out worms like this not support them.....smh at the mentality this world is getting at, like we can't be fucked or are too high and mighty to care about the lives of others.
I don't think a lot of people understand the mind of a 17 year old, a lot of the time they are thinking "Yea I know it's wrong but will deal with the consequences later". I used to be like this, almost all my friends were like this so seeing this sorta outcome isn't too far fetched the problem here is companies like EA who deliberately engineer their products to allow these sort of 'mistakes' to slip through....they have absolutely zero liability. What is stopping them from making the packs $1,000,000 each? Would any of you have a problem with it if they made a single pack purchase 1 million dollars? Because from the sounds of some people on this thread we should just let these scummy bastards do whatever the fuck we want, it's up to us to try and elicit some sort of self control or good parenting. With all the amount of stuff an everyday working adult has to deal with nowadays you would think people would be a little more sympathetic to everyday people being exploited like this. EA are in the wrong becase they are deliberately targeting morons like this father and son.
There should a limit on how much you can spend on MT, I don't know a single person that would be ok with spending $8k on this crap and I guarantee no one here does either. Even if you were a hella rich bastard you still would not want to spend this kinda cash. After spending $200 or so the last pack you buy should just fill in the blanks in your roster. The game should be structured intelligently and not deceptively.....sure make the chances to get certain players very rare but after spending a certain amount the game should just cough up the missing players.
This is all gonna change very soon, a couple more horror stories like this and pretty soon we are going to see it being regulated and the fault will be on EA not on the public. We should be looking at EA to change the way it does things so that we don't start having bullshit regulations placed on our games but what choice do we have when people are being exploited?
There is a reason almost every single law/rule out there exists - either because of morons complaining, morons gettiong hurt or morons being exploited, this is human history when something happens enough times we bring in laws to control an unwanted outcome. This shit will be regulated sooner or later because EA have structured their game to take advantage of a system that allows them to do this. EA do not spend a single cent when these packs are bought, it is 100% profit so why the hell are they randomized? They have nothing to lose with this kinda setup so they will keep doing it until the rules force them to change, I feel pity to those people that have no problem giving companies like this their money. We should be building a society to weed out worms like this not support them.....smh at the mentality this world is getting at, like we can't be fucked or are too high and mighty to care about the lives of others.
Card packs are randomized in real life too. And you don't need to buy the card packs. There's a market where you can get the exact cards you want.
And there's lot of people that have no issues paying this ammount and more even, and it's their right to do so. I don't expect a store that sells shoes to not sell me 8000$ worth of shoes because of arbitrary dumb restrictions. Regulating purchases so you can only have a maximum of something purchased is dumb and no, it shouldn't be a law at all.
ugh_the_boot
Banned
Thanks that's an excellent reason, problem solved guys!
I'm pretty sure in real life you are able to swap cards with your friends to fill in the blanks in your collection, can you do this on FIFA? I don't think so. Is there a place on the Fifa marketplaace where you can get exactly the cards/players you need? I don't think so.
Even though I don't support these random packs in real life I can see why they exist and the format is less about exploitation. Atleast these companies are actually spending money getting these cards produced which can explain some of these costs, why the hell are EA charging $8.00 for a random spin of the dice that isn't costing them any money at all? Even if this shit was free it might take months or years to get everything you need, why are consumers being subjected to these kinds of practices? What if your whole life was soccer and Fifa was the only game you ever played, don't you think you too would want a full roster of all the players? Why shouldn't you be able to collect them all? I'm sure even after spending $8k this kid didn't have everything he wanted out of the game.....this is the part that I can't believe even exists...how the fuck can you spend $8k on a game and still not have everything? How can people not see what is wrong with this setup?
Bullshit! I bet you don't know a single person that would be dumb enough to spend $8k on this crap. Also this game isn't made for 'rich bastards only' so there is no way this scenario should even be occurring. Rich people aren't stupid, there is a reason they are rich and most of the time it's because they were a tight arse, the people least likely to spend this sorta money on this crap would be rich people.
Are those shoes you're buying randomized? Do you spend $8000 and walk out with the wrong size or colour? What a dumb analogy.
The question here isn't if this stuff will be regulated but when and we'll all have EA to thank for it.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Willing buyer, willing seller. there are more enough safeguard measures at both the credit card and xbox side to implement your spending limit. There's simply no excuse for failing to set a spending limit on your credit card when you apply it.
The price tag is there. The comfirmation prompt is there. There isn't any scam here.
The price tag is there. The comfirmation prompt is there. There isn't any scam here.
This game just reflects reality and virtual reality and how money can buy you power in both a game and in real life. Boy I'm glad games such as Tekken and Street Fighter aren't pay to win or have microtransactions as silly as this.
These microtransactions literally targets kids and that's my biggest problem with it. Leave my son alone!
These microtransactions literally targets kids and that's my biggest problem with it. Leave my son alone!