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[Explosive Zombie]

Look, I'm a little sick of all the whining and complaining. I can't be the only one. The worst part is when I see people say stuff like 7/10 like this shit is the annual CoD campaign or something.

I get it, we take no prisoners when it comes to bad launches even if the game is great, we won't give Cyberpunk 2077 more leeway than Fallout 76 even if one is actually a mediocre game and the other isn't.

So... let's get past the bugs, I mean... let's get one thing straight first off, The Witcher III, winner of GAF's GOTG had a buggy launch as well, so assuming this shit is fixed like Witcher III was the bug argument is TEMPORARY.

Okay, we remove bugs from the equation while admitting yes they are a problem CURRENTLY... now let's get past prior gen consoles and acknowledge PS5 and XSX will perform much better when they get a proper next-gen patch. Personally I'm playing the game on PC, and not a particular advanced one but it performs really well for me all the same.

If we ignore those two big arguments against the game what's left?


1. AI - So, I get the AI complaints mostly. For me AI has never been the strong point of RPGs and it never really had to be. If the challenge came from AI then that would diminish the RPG elements but you don't want 100% braindead AI either. I've seen some arguments I can't tell if they're disingenuous or if I'm just getting lucky or if platforms are different for instance... people say the AI is brain dead... yet for me, one of the first encounters I entered was some place full of goons and once I began attacking I saw some decent AI. As an example enemies would evade my grenade throws, take cover and some of the robot enemies when I kept tossing 'nades actually found a way around behind me, flanking me. With the police AI we're mostly talking about their inability to get into vehicles and chase you, there's some kind of weird problem with traffic AI essentially and yes... this does mean you just need to drive away from police to have things calm down. I get the complaints about that but did I need exciting police pursuits not tied to specific missions? Not really. My needs for this game centered around it being an RPG, not an open world sandbox.

Like, okay, I get where you're coming from if you wanted something more like GTA, one could even argue they tried to advertise it that way. But for ME this game was always going to be an RPG first and CDPR were pretty up front about that in interviews. Compare it to Deus Ex, can you name a Deus Ex game that's more sophisticated with these issues? They're not even proper open worlds, more like open hubs. It's telling that when complaining about this people compare it to non-RPGs, how would you compare it to Fallout 4? Are there any AIs that can give you a good pursuit across the map? Was AI the game's strong suit, is it the strong suit of any Fallout from Bethesda? What about Elder Scrolls? Mass Effect doesn't even have this level of freedom. Again, I come back to the question of what RPG is doing what this game does? Nevermind as well, are they even attempting it?

2. This one is similar to one, the lack of emergent gameplay in the sandbox. It's true, this game's sandbox isn't really a sandbox, it's an open world more for immersion and to cram it with stuff to do. Is that so bad? And what was the last sandbox game that felt truly emergent? Ass Creed, GTA, RDR? Aren't these games now just littered with encounters that are wholly scripted to feel emergent? They may still have more emergent gameplay than this but compared to say early entries in the GTA franchise? Honestly, emergent gameplay has been on a downhill trend in the open world genre and it's a bit hard to deny. Very few open world games have been about placing systems in the game and letting you see how they interact over the past generation, maybe it was those jaguar CPUs, not sure. It's weird it's so expected of this game when Witcher III had none of it. Tell me what was truly emergent in Witcher III? Tell me what wasn't something carefully planned for you? Why is Witcher III GOTG to this forum with all the same "problems" this game has?

3. Loot system - I guess this one bothers people, they don't like loads of useless loot, but honestly you need the materials breaking it all down gives you and you also need the eddies you get from selling them. The game has a pretty strong economy that isn't easily broken from what I can tell, a problem many games like it suffer from lately. My all-time favorite RPG, Fallout: New Vegas has an easily breakable economy, for instance, though with time we may find ways to do it here as well, that said this game will get better support than New Vegas ever did, too.

I don't mean to leave out any big issues people have but most the rest don't mean much to me... so let's move on...


I say this game is everything I NEEDED it to be, this means it's not everything I wanted, though, There's a distinction to be made there.


Why is it everything I needed?


1. Choices matter - Some of the early ones might not but the further you get the more you find your choices do matter. I can see being upset you can't play this a million different ways, that V is to some degree a set character and not entirely a blank slate. While your choices have consequences there's only so far in whatever direction you can go. But did I need more than this? No, I needed a FPS RPG that had more meaningful choices than games like Fallout 4 or Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, I'd even say in some ways it beats Prey 2017 for choices that matter but that's a whole other discussion almost. BTW part of making those choices matter...

2. Story - The Story is stronger than games like Mankind Divided, Fallout 4 and for me... Witcher III. I didn't expect the best story ever, but I expected greatness and I have trouble believing I didn't get it.

3. Characters - Another major component in appreciating the story/choices, these are done exceptionally well. Again much better than this game's actual contemporaries.

4. Visuals - Holy fuck does it hit the mark on PC here. Witcher III was one of the most gorgeous games I'd ever played and this game trounces it soundly.

5. Gunplay - Now, I wasn't expecting Destiny 2 or Call of Duty from this but I was hoping for good stuff and it has it, I can easily say the gunplay is more fun than in the Deus Ex games with real meaty oomph to the gunshot sounds with some neat looking weapons as well. There will be bullet spongy enemies but that fits the RPG aspect of this, to me. The combat is so beyond what I expected considering it wasn't that great for me in Witcher III.

6. The World - You can complain it isn't emergent enough but I wanted IMMERSION and it delivers, this world feels amazing and looks amazing. Mankind Divided annoyed me so much with it's little immersion breaking hubs that didn't feel real enough, games like Fallout 4 didn't feel real enough for me either, it's just a giant map of dungeons with a few small settlements and one big settlement. Witcher 3 felt too sparse in between the areas that mattered, as much as I loved Witcher III the open world felt like padding between stuff that mattered... beautiful padding but padding all the same.

7. Side content - Holy shit, this game delivers. I wanted some Fallout New Vegas level side content and I got it. Didn't you?


I'm gonna be honest, I'm a shooter nut but also an RPG fan and as someone in that position so few games deliver like this one does. If I was more of a sandbox guy I might be more on board with people about this game's problems but even then what other RPGs are providing more engaging sandboxes? I hope the problems are fixed and I want all sorts of things you guys want, too but is the game missing those things really taking away from what it is? It's the most beautiful game on the market, it's an RPG with choices that matter, lots of customization, characters you care about, a great story, tons of side content, a gorgeous open world and shooter combat that's more than sufficient. What should I be playing if not this? When someone says this is 7/10 what are the comparable recent games that are 8, 9 or 10/10? If there are none then how can you blame someone for thinking this is the best there is? It's like when Destiny was out for a few months and people decided it was crap and I'm sitting here like "okay, I get all your complaints but... what else is giving me this experience and better?"

I feel like too many people who are angry at the game are people who weren't quite as hyped as the rest of us and not quite as invested. Like if the new Ass Creed was a buggy mess full of issues I could post about how angry I am but I'm not, because it's not what I need from a game anyways. How many people are like me who genuinely want the beautiful melding of RPG and FPS in an open world setting and actually think this game isn't up to snuff compared to the competition? I feel like when I see someone say they'd rather play say RDR 2 or GTA V there's no question they were coming to this game for a different experience than me. You can talk what this game is missing GTA V or RDR 2 have but what about all the things it has they don't? Non-linear missions, dialogue and other choices, more combat options, upgrade systems, etc. When I see someone give this game crap for the police not chasing you I think "well, why can't I do the GTA heists in different ways?" isn't it just as valid a question? We've become so accepting of games being linear as a style choice even when they're sandbox games we're less likely to critique it but the second a game includes an open world and doesn't feature the sandbox features other games might it's this big problem. But that's the thing, if we have to compare GTA to Cyberpunk there are so many ways GTA comes up short in comparison, it's hard to deny. It's why the comparison is as faulty as comparing Prey 2017 to Doom Eternal. As wrongheaded as comparing Hollow Knight to Sackboy. As thoughtless as comparing Forza to Burnout. As senseless as comparing Civilization to Dawn of War. As problematic as comparing Devil May Cry to Dark Souls.

Maybe I'm hung up on how things relate to each other, but all things are relative and without being able to relate one thing to another where do we even begin? Most complaints are people relating it to something else anyways, it's just often the wrong thing.

And again, to be fair to many of you, I want a lot of the same things you do, but then there is no game that launches with everything I want, is there for you? Besides very specific games that have very specific limited goals what games can you think of that couldn't be improved? What games are perfect as they are? Give me your examples.

 

[GHG]

But what about the lack of diverse romance options.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

But what about the lack of diverse romance options.

I forgot to include a bullet point for that because I really appreciate a game having romance options, one of the worst things for me about Outer Worlds was how they left that out, it was especially weird because I think they once admitted they'd have put romance options in New Vegas with more time? WTF

 

[Woggleman]

It can benefit from a few patches but all together it is a really great game and the freedom with how to tackle missions from both side and story is top notch.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

so assuming this shit is fixed like Witcher III was the bug argument is TEMPORARY

You don't get points for fixing your game after you've already taken everyone's money under false pretenses by deceptively hiding the state of your game...which is doubly true of the console versions. CDPR deserve all the criticism they get around the dogshit state of their games on launch (including TW3), especially since releasing their games in a clearly unfinished state is now becoming a pattern of behaviour...

 

[STARSBarry]

You bring up AI and explain why its not bad, but ok here's a quick test for you to do. Go shoot someone and duck behind some boxes and do nothing, now time how long it takes for the enemy to kill you.

Now boot up CoD set it to the easiest difficulty and do the same thing and come back and tell me which one takes longer to kill you.

The fact that AI is so brain dead and not a threat means that a majority of the skill tree is useless, the fact the AI guards during stealth are on these retarded set paths that never deviate unless you have a terminal means you can crouch walk up to anyone mid combat and shotgun them to the floor point blank and reload before they can get up and do it again, until dead.

I'm not saying its a bad game, but even if the bugs where all fixed its below average in terms of pretty much everything outside of graphics. The campaign missions are fun, however choice barely matters as do the skill trees or crafting or pretty much any mechanic the game throws at you, you actively have to play the game in a way that makes it harder on purpose to actually have it be a challenge.

When GTA4 has superior NPC AI and was released 12 years ago, you have problems. This is not an issue with "patches will fix the bugs" the core gameplay underneath this is an ocean wide, but as deep as a puddle.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

You don't get points for fixing your game after you've already taken everyone's money under false pretenses by deceptively hiding the state of your game...which is doubly true of the console versions. CDPR deserve all the criticism they get around the dogshit state of their games on launch (including TW3), especially since releasing their games in a clearly unfinished state is now becoming a pattern of behaviour...

I don't get what this means, has any game in existence advertised their glitches prior to release? Releasing games in an unfinished state is a pattern of behavior for THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY, my dude. Why does it feel like we're being extra mean to CDPR? I think I know the answer... because they're perceived to be the good guys of the industry, so many forget part of that perception is their steadfast drive to FIX all of Witcher 3's issues and add stuff to it free that people wanted, in other words part of their image came from having such problems but fixing them.

 

[Life]

People are overreacting over the glitches and stuff. The game is ambitious and rather complicated - and the glitches are a testament to that. I've encountered bugs here and there but all were manageable.

This game has more varied NPCs/fashion variety in the first 10 minutes than most games have spanning fucking trilogies.

Just had a look at the metacritic user score - and people are bombing it to the ground with 0s and 1s. It's a shame because it means other studios will be encouraged to play it safe and release the same ol' shit we've been getting the last decade.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

You bring up AI and explain why its not bad, but ok here's a quick test for you to do. Go shoot someone and duck behind some boxes and do nothing, now time how long it takes for the enemy to kill you.

Now boot up CoD set it to the easiest difficulty and do the same thing and come back and tell me which one takes longer to kill you.

The fact that AI is so brain dead and not a threat means that a majority of the skill tree is useless, the fact the AI guards during stealth are on these retarded set paths that never deviate unless you have a terminal means you can crouch walk up to anyone midcombay and shotgun them to the floor point blank and reload before they can get up and do it again.

I'm not saying its a bad game, but even if the bugs where all fixed its below average in terms of pretty much everything outside of graphics. The campaign missions are fun, however choice barely matters as do the skill trees or crafting or pretty much any mechanic the game throws at you, you actively have to play the game in a way that makes it harder on purpose to actually have it be a challenge.

When GTA4 has superior NPC AI and was released 12 years ago, you have problems. This is not an issue with "patches will fix the bugs" the core gameplay underneath this is an ocean wide, but as deep as a puddle.

Okay... I could do this but first off...

1. You're comparing an open world RPG's enemy AI in a shootout to CoD, a game dedicated to shooting gameplay in linear levels.

2. I disagree with the AI not being a threat, maybe there's ways to cheese it I'm not trying but lots of enemies can absolutely destroy you and as I said I've been flanked before

3. Having set paths in stealth sounds pretty standard, like... again stealth is just one facet of this game, enemies not having set paths barely even occurs in dedicated stealth games

4. Why do you think choice barely matters? Isn't your way of find ways to cheese the game more active, though? Also what difficulty are you playing on?

5. GTA 4 also has superior NPC AI to Gta V, tho, it's also more about open world emergent interactions than this game is... because that's what sort of game it is... this happens to have an open world but it's an RPG. What RPGs have open worlds with amazing NPC AI?

6. You don't believe in depth coming from it's ability to hit more targets than other games simultaneously? It doesn't have set pieces as good as Uncharted, shooting as good as call of duty, stealth as good as metal gear solid, choices as good as Fallout New Vegas, upgrade trees as good as (uh, I dunno, what's the gold standard here?), an open world as interactive as GTA, AI as smart as Halo's elites, etc. but it's doing more things than any one of those is besides say Fallout NV but that had an even buggier launch and is still a buggy mess to this very day! You can say jack of all trades and master of none but many of the trades it goes for it's a lot better than you're giving it credit for.

Do you really believe this isn't something special in terms of characters/choices/storytelling? What games are? I keep wanting to know what games are as ambitious as this while being better.

 

[mikefrails]

I think the bigger difference is a lot of people thought they’d like cyberpunk as a sub genre and simply do not. As someone who has always heard of this setting I’ve actually never experienced anything like this.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

I don't get what this means, has any game in existence advertised their glitches prior to release? Releasing games in an unfinished state is a pattern of behavior for THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY, my dude. Why does it feel like we're being extra mean to CDPR? I think I know the answer... because they're perceived to be the good guys of the industry, so many forget part of that perception is their steadfast drive to FIX all of Witcher 3's issues and add stuff to it free that people wanted, in other words part of their image came from having such problems but fixing them.

There's a difference between not advertising glitches and actively trying to cover them up. CDP only sent out PC copies for review. Reviews of said PC version were only allowed to be published on Dec 7th and even then they mandated use of provided "B-roll" only, no captured footage, until Dec 9th, just one day before release, by which time it was too late for a lot of people to cancel their preorders. Reviews of the console versions only existed AFTER launch; the only statement about the state of those versions came from CDP's CEO who said that it ran, and I quote, "surprisingly well". Motherfucker straight up lied. 15FPS at 720P with barren streets, tons of pop-in and dogshit textures is not "surprisingly well", that slimy motherfucker straight up lied. CDP/R might once have been the good guys...but as far as I am concerned they no longer deserve that moniker.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

I stopped reading hallway thru but I fully agree with the first half. I'm really enjoying the game on PC looking decent and running decent. The enemy ai is fine at hard difficulty. The grind is fun. The citizen AI is trash though and really needs some work. I fire my gun and it's just 70 people ducking and not moving. Very immersion breaking.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

There's a difference between not advertising glitches and actively trying to cover them up. CDP only sent out PC copies for review. Reviews of said PC version were only allowed to be published on Dec 7th and even then they mandated use of provided "B-roll" only, no captured footage, until Dec 9th, just one day before release, by which time it was too late for a lot of people to cancel their preorders. Reviews of the console versions only existed AFTER launch; the only statement about the state of those versions came from CDP's CEO who said that it ran, and I quote, "surprisingly well". Motherfucker straight up lied. 15FPS at 720P with barren streets, tons of pop-in and dogshit textures is not "surprisingly well", that slimy motherfucker straight up lied. CDP/R might once have been the good guys...but as far as I am concerned they no longer deserve that moniker.

But we knew they did all those things, we should have assumed it was for a reason. Plenty of companies have employed similar embargoes and such. Never pre-order, btw, this idea has been drilled into peoples heads over and over but they still do it, why? If the console version has no review why not wait? If the reviews matter to you why get a game without one? I mean, is that a lie? Maybe they expected it to run so poorly they'd have to scrap those versions, I mean I'm surprised a jaguar CPU that was outdated in 2013 can handle this game at all, myself. It's sad you've turned on them completely over this but honestly this forum was rife with people saying the console versions were going to be trash right up until launch when it suddenly become this weird shock over their own prophecies coming true. We heard for months about how they're hiding console performance, that the delays were due to consoles, etc. but suddenly this forum acts shocked, it happens a lot here, the meta of the forum clearly knows something is rotten but feigns shock when it actually happens. Maybe the last gen versions were never going to run well no matter the delays and they couldn't simply drop those versions because of prior commitments they made? We really don't know all the details of this stuff but aren't willing to be understanding either because we were "ripped off" because our netbook cpu can't handle the best looking game ever made. We'll see how things continue to shake out but the simple existence of the One X and the Pro were your first signs clinging to the base consoles for new games was a mistake.

 

[GrayChild]

So far, even with the bugs and all (had almost none personally), this is my GOTY along with Half-Life: Alyx.

Some people just thought this game will render all other titles obsolete once it comes out. There's not a single developer who can meet such ambitions.

 

[Kerotan]

I was never buying this game day 1. I've my shrinking backlog of titles like origins, metro exodus, tsutshima etc to play. Then I'll have spiderman ultimate edition, GT7, HORIZON 2, GOW2, Ratchet and Clank and the new Battlefield. Plus new gta update, warzone map and beyond light expansion for destiny 2.

My point is my schedule is filled and a game from a developer I've never played a game from wasn't even considered. So we're talking at least 12 months for this.

So personally I'm not at all bothered by its buggy launch. By the time I play it there will have been 20 patches and probably a next gen version. To those who have it now you might as well just enjoy it.

You can always replay it in a year or two when it's been patched and a next gen version launched.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I stopped reading hallway thru but I fully agree with the first half. I'm really enjoying the game on PC looking decent and running decent. The enemy ai is fine at hard difficulty. The grind is fun. The citizen AI is trash though and really needs some work. I fire my gun and it's just 70 people ducking and not moving. Very immersion breaking.

I've seen a lot of people saying that if you fire your gun the NPCs just duck and don't move but it's not true for me on PC... and I have proof...

 

[Unity2012]

Thank you E Explosive Zombie
Great read.
I tried to focus on what I need/want from a game rather than what is not. For as long as I can remember a lot of PC games come out with a lot of bugs which lets be honest, sucks but eventually get, not all but most, sorted out by the developers or mod community. As consoles get stronger-- hardware and software wise, it is expected to find similar issues.
The real question for me is what you explained, does the game have what I needed? Is it worth it? And it is.

To me the deal is not to excuse the developers for the game's obvious issues, not at all; but to stop only focusing on the problems and also appreciating the aspects of the game that filled my expectations.

 

[Guilty_AI]

But you can only pick male and female voice, and theres no neutral gender pronouns. Doesn't that make CDPR the actual fourth reich?

 

[Captain Toad]

I don't get what this means, has any game in existence advertised their glitches prior to release?

How many tell reviewers they are NOT ALLOWED to show footage of the reviewers version of the game, but only carefully tested and edited footage from the publisher.

How often do they withhold the completely unplayable versions of a game from reviewers until after release (and after millions of preorders have already been placed)?

 

[Astral Dog]

Glad that you like it i guess, nice to hear more positive impressions for vary

Im not touching CyberPunk for 6 months minimum but its in part because i didn't like Witcher 3 at all. specially the gameplay

 

[MrS]

CDPR defence force really outchea. Game is garbage on consoles and they deliberately hid that to mislead customers. Nobody gives a fuck about your PC experience that is indeed far from perfect itself. CDPR don't deserve a pass because then they won't learn from this disaster.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

But we knew they did all those things, we should have assumed it was for a reason. Plenty of companies have employed similar embargoes and such. Never pre-order, btw, this idea has been drilled into peoples heads over and over but they still do it, why? If the console version has no review why not wait? If the reviews matter to you why get a game without one? I mean, is that a lie? Maybe they expected it to run so poorly they'd have to scrap those versions, I mean I'm surprised a jaguar CPU that was outdated in 2013 can handle this game at all, myself. It's sad you've turned on them completely over this but honestly this forum was rife with people saying the console versions were going to be trash right up until launch when it suddenly become this weird shock over their own prophecies coming true. We heard for months about how they're hiding console performance, that the delays were due to consoles, etc. but suddenly this forum acts shocked, it happens a lot here, the meta of the forum clearly knows something is rotten but feigns shock when it actually happens. Maybe the last gen versions were never going to run well no matter the delays and they couldn't simply drop those versions because of prior commitments they made? We really don't know all the details of this stuff but aren't willing to be understanding either because we were "ripped off" because our netbook cpu can't handle the best looking game ever made. We'll see how things continue to shake out but the simple existence of the One X and the Pro were your first signs clinging to the base consoles for new games was a mistake.

Well I didn't preorder, I wasn't burned...and even if I did I game on PC. Doesn't mean I think this is acceptable conduct or that it makes it okay. Just because I wasn't personally burned doesn't mean I'm not going to stand-up for the little guy. And you're right...plenty of other companies have employed similar embargoes...and it's shitty when they do it. CDP have joined the big leagues now...and they're behaving like it. Fuck 'em I say. I think my days of prioritizing GOG purchases even at extra cost and double dipping just to support them are over. DRM free is nice to have but lets be real...Steam works fine.

 

[OrtizTwelve]

It’s an entertaining game with good style and effects, but I think it was definitely overhyped by the media.

I am still early in the game — at the hotel mission — and it’s entertaining.

 

[Punished Miku]

You bring up AI and explain why its not bad, but ok here's a quick test for you to do. Go shoot someone and duck behind some boxes and do nothing, now time how long it takes for the enemy to kill you.

Now boot up CoD set it to the easiest difficulty and do the same thing and come back and tell me which one takes longer to kill you.

The fact that AI is so brain dead and not a threat means that a majority of the skill tree is useless, the fact the AI guards during stealth are on these retarded set paths that never deviate unless you have a terminal means you can crouch walk up to anyone mid combat and shotgun them to the floor point blank and reload before they can get up and do it again, until dead.

I'm not saying its a bad game, but even if the bugs where all fixed its below average in terms of pretty much everything outside of graphics. The campaign missions are fun, however choice barely matters as do the skill trees or crafting or pretty much any mechanic the game throws at you, you actively have to play the game in a way that makes it harder on purpose to actually have it be a challenge.

When GTA4 has superior NPC AI and was released 12 years ago, you have problems. This is not an issue with "patches will fix the bugs" the core gameplay underneath this is an ocean wide, but as deep as a puddle.

This is going to be one of those repeats of The Witcher, where lots of people point out that basic movement and combat feel terrible but it still wins GOTY from PC players.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

How many tell reviewers they are NOT ALLOWED to show footage of the reviewers version of the game, but only carefully tested and edited footage from the publisher.

How often do they withhold the completely unplayable versions of a game from reviewers until after release (and after millions of preorders have already been placed)?

I've seen it a lot actually, usually to avoid spoilers.

Considering how long pre-orders have been up for it's impossible to have reviews prior to millions of pre-orders going up. Lots of games have strict review embargoes, some don't even give out review copies. The mantra from many has been that you shouldn't pre-order. Did this game even have pre-order bonuses?

CDPR defence force really outchea. Game is garbage on consoles and they deliberately hid that to mislead customers. Nobody gives a fuck about your PC experience that is indeed far from perfect itself. CDPR don't deserve a pass because then they won't learn from this disaster.

I think this mislead idea is a bit much. Most multiplat games advertise the game based on where performance is best. I mean, you can say nobody gives a fuck about my PC experience but then can't I also say nobody gives a fuck about how well a console from 2013 performs on it? To me I'm hearing people playing the Switch version of Witcher III complain... what do I care? What do you mean they won't learn? They put out a patch the very next day that addressed many issues, there's no question they're listening, they also gave their employees bonuses despite the metascore because they took responsibility for shipping it in the state it's in. You're clearly very angry and hey, there's a place for your anger, there's actually tons of threads for it. But you engaged with my thread and didn't answer the questions I'm actually asking. Just came to give me the same crap about how badly it performs on consoles which isn't what I'm really here to argue about. I don't know the answer to how it performs on consoles because to me it never should have even launched on the consoles you speak of. But I'm not the one who needs to make investors happy. I hope the big positive from this mess is other games drop prior gen support.

Well I didn't preorder, I wasn't burned...and even if I did I game on PC. Doesn't mean I think this is acceptable conduct or that it makes it okay. Just because I wasn't personally burned doesn't mean I'm not going to stand-up for the little guy. And you're right...plenty of other companies have employed similar embargoes...and it's shitty when they do it. CDP have joined the big leagues now...and they're behaving like it. Fuck 'em I say. I think my days of prioritizing GOG purchases even at extra cost and double dipping just to support them are over. DRM free is nice to have but lets be real...Steam works fine.

I mean, I bought the game on Steam so I'm fine with that. This isn't really about defending CDPR as a company, though I have trouble getting angry because I have a lot of apathy when it comes to this issue, they all treat us like shit, it sucks one of the good guys did it, too... but like... I dunno, I just can't care. It's not why I made the thread. And if the good guy spirit still exists for them then I expect a few months from now this game will be in a state everyone can be happy with anyways. It's why I want to get away from those topics.

 

[nowhat]

I've seen it a lot actually, usually to avoid spoilers.

OK, so tell me, what game has restricted review copies not only to a single platform (that's PC, of course), but the reviews can only show footage provided by the developer?

I can tell you, there is no such game. That you can only talk about events leading up to $EVENT, that does happen. But that you're not able to show your own footage? Seriously, I'd like an example.

It's bullshit by CDPR, and should be called as such.

 

[mikefrails]

There's a difference between not advertising glitches and actively trying to cover them up. CDP only sent out PC copies for review. Reviews of said PC version were only allowed to be published on Dec 7th and even then they mandated use of provided "B-roll" only, no captured footage, until Dec 9th, just one day before release, by which time it was too late for a lot of people to cancel their preorders. Reviews of the console versions only existed AFTER launch; the only statement about the state of those versions came from CDP's CEO who said that it ran, and I quote, "surprisingly well". Motherfucker straight up lied. 15FPS at 720P with barren streets, tons of pop-in and dogshit textures is not "surprisingly well", that slimy motherfucker straight up lied. CDP/R might once have been the good guys...but as far as I am concerned they no longer deserve that moniker.

But securing readymade b-roll is common practice, so are embargoes. I have the game on arguably one of the worst platforms for it (slim PS4) and I don’t feel like it’s unplayable. I would even go as far as to say the game runs fine.

If the reviews were allowed to be no holds bared then the game would’ve been portrayed as a buggy mess worthy of no ones time; I don’t even like the game and I believe that’s a misrepresentation of what we got.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

OK, so tell me, what game has restricted review copies not only to a single platform (that's PC, of course), but the reviews can only show footage provided by the developer?

I can tell you, there is no such game. That you can only talk about events leading up to $EVENT, that does happen. But that you're not able to show your own footage? Seriously, I'd like an example.

It's bullshit by CDPR, and should be called as such.

Um... many games in the prior gen on day 1 would only have reviews for whatever the lead platform was, actually. It wasn't usually like this where the other platforms were straight up abysmal but there were definitely plenty of multi-plats that would just have PS4 reviews the first day of reviews. The footage thing I know happens a lot because when I watch Youtube reviews they say it quite often.

I don't think what CDPR did is okay, I just disagree that it's as unique as you claim... and again... it's not really what my thread is about.

 

[sobaka770]

I agree - it needs a few patches to be GOTG material but CDPR did deliver on almost everything that was basically promised: an open world RPG in Cyberpunk universe with heavy emphasis on good storytelling.
I do not understand expectations about the city being alive and emergent gameplay. This is not what CDPR was ever about and it's a totally different design paradigm. They can cram a lot of stuff into the city skyscrapers as they develop DLC, the platform is there.
I never had any use for NPC Ai in any RPG, including Skyrim - so what if they guy actually goes to the shop and then sleeps at night? What does it change for the actual player? No wonder most games don't do this shit anymore, as this is a gimmick and the purpose of the game is to revolve around the player not NPCs. AC is pretty much scripted missions in huge open world, RDR as well, only games that do emergent gameplay have the whole loop built around it.

Yes this isn't GTA but it was never advertised as such at least from my perspective.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

But securing readymade b-roll is common practice, so are embargoes. I have the game on arguably one of the worst platforms for it (slim PS4) and I don’t feel like it’s unplayable. I would even go as far as to say the game runs fine.

If the reviews were allowed to be no holds bared then the game would’ve been portrayed as a buggy mess worthy of no ones time; I don’t even like the game and I believe that’s a misrepresentation of what we got.

My brother plays on One X and thinks its fine. I watched him play a bit and to me it looks the way many other games perform for him, I dunno, until this forum went nuts I had no idea this was unheard of for those platforms, to me that's what they're always like. I still remember trying to play Mankind Divided on PS4 Pro after playing some of the PC version... to me it was unplayable. Same with Destiny 2 on console compared to PC, totally unplayable. I guess that's part of why I can't sympathize enough with these guys, to me their consoles are always like this.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

I mean, I bought the game on Steam so I'm fine with that. This isn't really about defending CDPR as a company, though I have trouble getting angry because I have a lot of apathy when it comes to this issue, they all treat us like shit, it sucks one of the good guys did it, too... but like... I dunno, I just can't care. It's not why I made the thread. And if the good guy spirit still exists for them then I expect a few months from now this game will be in a state everyone can be happy with anyways. It's why I want to get away from those topics.

I just don't think it's that realistic to get away from that right now I'm afraid. CDP exploited the goodwill they spent god knows how long building to basically shit all over their customers. Personally I don't want people to move away from this, I want people remember this, that it remains a permanent stain on their record. Holding them accountable is the only way they're going to learn not to release a game before "When it's ready" has actually come to pass.

 

[ethomaz]

If you wanted bugs then you got it.

While the devs did not ironed everything the game is not good sorry... you can’t overlook that and support these low level practices based in fan hype.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I just don't think it's that realistic to get away from that right now I'm afraid. CDP exploited the goodwill they spent god knows how long building to basically shit all over their customers. Personally I don't want people to move away from this, I want people remember this, that it remains a permanent stain on their record. Holding them accountable is the only way they're going to learn not to release a game before "When it's ready" has actually come to pass.

That's fair. I could have waited longer to play it. I've got a considerable backlog. There's definitely a balancing act here and we saw how much shit they got for past delays, especially the last one. The investor part is particularly cancerous. I think holding them accountable will just lead to more developers hiding things, though... less set release dates, less promises of what platforms you can play on... more games simply releasing in early access, etc.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I would say that CDPR's marketing was off the mark honestly. Almost everyone i knew that was interested in the game in real life thought it was a GTA game, having no clue it's an RPG.

But for the informed gamers, we got exactly what we expected from a tabletop Cyberpunk RPG to the videogame. It's an immersive sim, Deus Ex like in a fucking jaw-dropping open world.

CDPR are very good with supporting and patching games, i have no doubt that things will get better in the next 6 months, but even as is, the city is simply the most mind blowing experience i've ever seen in gaming. I want to thank all the artists behind the creation of that city, it's a work of art.

I'll say this though, Rockstar is on a level of it's own with the open world physics, AI and reactions to events. But they basically invented the genre and they have many games under their wings now. This is CDPR's first "city" open world, which is vastly different in interactions than a country side RPG like the Witcher. I think they have room for improvement, but it's an amazing start.

 

[Madflavor]

Look, I'm a little sick of all the whining and complaining. I can't be the only one. The worst part is when I see people say stuff like 7/10 like this shit is the annual CoD campaign or something.

I have a theory on that.

I honestly believe that a good portion of the crowd of people who are saying "This is a 7/10 game at best. It's not much depth and it's boring." have either not played the game, or are still in Act 1. Yes I know there are also probably some that have gotten far into the game, and it's just there opinion. You don't have to raise your hand and say you're one of them. But having played the game for 35+ hours, deep into Act 2, doing all the side quests, exploration, crafting, etc etc, I feel like I'm playing a completely different game than these people. The game has faults, most will be ironed out, but the positives of the game really make up for it's shortcomings. It is a gorgeous open world with amazing characters, lore, stories, and things to discover.

No open world is perfect. People want to compare CP77 to RDR2 to talk about how bad CP77's open world AI and mechanics are. But I remember full fucking well that people were bitching about how slow and mundane some tasks were in RDR2, and how the game makes it so fucking difficult for you to be a Outlaw, cause of how easy and broken it was to get a bounty on you.

The point is, no Open World is perfect. Some are better than others yes. But you gotta look at the things the game does well, and try to focus and enjoy it for that. If you can't, then maybe the game isn't for you. All I know is the game was hyped to the stars, it didn't meet expectations, and now people are criticizing the shit outta it. Some of the criticism is definitely valid, I'm not arguing that. But it really feels like because of the hype, people are being extra harsh about it.

 

[Kuranghi]

I wrote a massive post of negative shit but I don't really want to be that negative right now so I'll keep it succint.

The world is the best thing about it, it looks amazing and I'm sure VR would be mindblowing for it. I think the biggest disappointment for me that probably won't/can't be fixed is the up-close interaction with NPCs, they have these beautiful models and lighting (On PC) that make them look better than most other faces I've seen in games but a lot of the animation blending is really obvious and offputting.

They jump around quite a lot and you can really feel the "game" aspect of it when this happens imo, after watching this JALI video I was really excited that even though its not motion captured animation (Like AC: Unity, when compared to Valhalla, makes it look rubbish a lot of the time, even with the gfx improvements we've had since 2014) this system would make everyone look and feel quite a bit better than the last three (3) AC games:




(Montage of effects at the end of the video if you don't want to watch it all)

So far though, most of the in-game conversations I've seen have not had near that quality, I don't even know if they are using all aspects of that system in the final game. The ripperdoc (The main NPC ripperdoc, forgot his name) part where he is explaining the whole Silverhand situation is surely one they would've spent the most time on but its not even as good as that Judy example in the JALI video.

I would put up with subpar physics, AI, loot and combat if the characters were as impressive in motion as the world is in general. The models look fantastic as I said, and the hair physics is excellent 90% of the time, but it breaks down for me when I see them sliding into the starting point for the next animation to play out. If I discount all those other aspects above I'm not really left with anything except the decisions and the quality of the interactions and the latter is disappointing so far.

I thought of all the things they absolutely nail perfectly, it would be the above and thats the biggest disappointment to me.

The dialogue is also not that great, Jeff Gerstmann said it sounds like its gone through a translator and I have to agree, often its just awkward in english. Maybe I'd enjoy it more in Polish or any other lauguage I can't understand without subtitles.

I haven't seen past Act 1 like you are saying above as well, so maybe a lot of these "problems" I have aren't a problem later on, but I think its an expectation that the first 10 hours would be as good as the rest of it.

TL;DR - AssCreeds (From before Origins) use of motion capture for characters/cutscenes ruined everything for me and now the people look too fake in everything that doesn't have it. I thought JALI was a big step forward, like Half-Life 2's lip-sync system but its not really that much more advanced than that system in practice.

Fuck sake I just wrote ANOTHER screed anyway lol, if we had a sit down with a whiskey and a cigar I could explain all my problems with it, which I think are fair and not being disengenuous, much better than writing endless screeds. At the end of the day though, from your perspective who gives a fuck what I or anyone else thinks, go and enjoy the game (I know you already are, I mean... keep doing it)!

 

[ItsTheNew]

It's something every gamer has to face: a game you really enjoy isn't thought of as fondly. I've been there with shadows of the damned. It'll never be enjoyed by the masses but I know it's a game I love.
With cyber punk the technical bugs are impeding on the enjoyment so it's not even a 7. Cyber punk can be fun, have a good story, but still be a husk of what was promised. Fable 1 went through the same thing and it's still fairly beloved.

 

[DonJorginho]

CDPR defence force really outchea. Game is garbage on consoles and they deliberately hid that to mislead customers. Nobody gives a fuck about your PC experience that is indeed far from perfect itself. CDPR don't deserve a pass because then they won't learn from this disaster.

Speak for yourself, myself and others are having a blast on the PS5 and the Series X/S.

 

[MrS]

Speak for yourself, myself and others are having a blast on the PS5 and the Series X/S.

Thanks for beta testing it. I appreciate you.

 

[Aion002]

Is this a bethesda game? Because these defensive arguments are almost the same that bethesda fans use defending crap like Fallout 76.


Don't get me wrong, I am interested in this game and I will probably get it eventually on the ps5 in a sale or play it on game pass on Xbox... But still...


You are saying that people who bought it for the PS4 and Xbox One shouldn't complain about the game running like crap and the other versions bugs and issues, cause reasons? People got a defective product and shouldn't complain?

That's wicked.

 

[vpance]

Apart from the shitty AI, the fact that life paths, which they got people believing was going to be a substantial part and choice players would make affecting the story, was in fact the opposite and lasts a whopping 15 minutes. That’s the most egregious bait and switch I’ve seen in a video game.

 

[TrebleShot]

Seeing alot of threads popping up like this.

Yeah I mean good for you if your loving it and enjoying it, thats cool and you get to be happy about it.

But I completely understand the discourse surrounding the game. The truth is the game was finished in time and resource restricted times.

The fault is not with the devs, not with the consumer but with the shareholders and senior figures at CDPR they needed to delay the game heavily into 2021 and potentially cancel the last gen versions in order to meet the hype and expectations of fans.

The pressure was too great and they have released a game which is probably 60% complete on last gen.

The strong defense and threads likes this only act to back up the fact the game is under baked and won't be in an intended state for a good few months.

Best to consider it a soft launch and buy or play once its been developed much further or released natively on next gen.

You don't need to defend it if your enjoying it.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Is this a bethesda game? Because these defensive arguments are almost the same that bethesda fans use defending crap like Fallout 76.


Don't get me wrong, I am interested in this game and I will probably get it eventually on the ps5 in a sale or play it on game pass on Xbox... But still...


You are saying that people who bought it for the PS4 and Xbox One shouldn't complain about the game running like crap and the other versions bugs and issues, cause reasons? People got a defective product and shouldn't complain?

That's wicked.

I'd never defend something as mediocre as Fallout 76 like this.

I didn't say what people who got it for PS4 or XB1 should do, in fact I tried to get past those sorts of arguments. I didn't tell anyone not to complain. I explained why the game is everything I needed it to be and wanted to know what arguments against it there were BESIDES bugs and old consoles, etc.

Apart from the shitty AI, the fact that life paths, which they got people believing was going to be a substantial part and choice players would make affecting the story, was in fact the opposite and lasts a whopping 15 minutes. That’s the most egregious bait and switch I’ve seen in a video game.

There's more to the life paths than that, keep playing.

Seeing alot of threads popping up like this.

Yeah I mean good for you if your loving it and enjoying it, thats cool and you get to be happy about it.

But I completely understand the discourse surrounding the game. The truth is the game was finished in time and resource restricted times.

The fault is not with the devs, not with the consumer but with the shareholders and senior figures at CDPR they needed to delay the game heavily into 2021 and potentially cancel the last gen versions in order to meet the hype and expectations of fans.

The pressure was too great and they have released a game which is probably 60% complete on last gen.

The strong defense and threads likes this only act to back up the fact the game is under baked and won't be in an intended state for a good few months.

Best to consider it a soft launch and buy or play once its been developed much further or released natively on next gen.

You don't need to defend it if your enjoying it.

Meeting the hype and expectations would mean delaying it nearly indefinitely.

I'm not sure you really read my OP when you talk about me defending the bugs and last gen performance. I want to talk about the game divorced of those issues while acknowledging they are issues.

I don't need to defend it, sure but I do want to know what game is offering me a superior experience, to me a game running on a console I don't use well or having less bugs isn't necessarily giving me a superior experience.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

The GTA comparisons are nonsense.

This is the worst AI i've seen in a AAA game in years. Before achieving GTA or RDR levels of AI, they'd need to meet the basic standard first. Which they've completely failed to do.

 

[ClanOfNone]

I get what you're saying op. I'm playing on the pro, performance is a shitshow, had a couple of hard locks, and a veritable host of weird glitches and visual bugs.
I'm definitely enjoying my time with it despite these things. A billion years from now when I finally find a ps5 in the wild, I'm hoping for a patched and vastly improved second playthrough.

 

[Shizumapower]

Love this game.

PS5

Edit: More pics

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

Seeing alot of threads popping up like this.

Yeah I mean good for you if your loving it and enjoying it, thats cool and you get to be happy about it.

But I completely understand the discourse surrounding the game. The truth is the game was finished in time and resource restricted times.

The fault is not with the devs, not with the consumer but with the shareholders and senior figures at CDPR they needed to delay the game heavily into 2021 and potentially cancel the last gen versions in order to meet the hype and expectations of fans.

The pressure was too great and they have released a game which is probably 60% complete on last gen.

The strong defense and threads likes this only act to back up the fact the game is under baked and won't be in an intended state for a good few months.

Best to consider it a soft launch and buy or play once its been developed much further or released natively on next gen.

You don't need to defend it if your enjoying it.

I am just waiting for the inevitable "Cyberpunk is NOTHING I needed it to be!" rebuttal thread.....then the rebuttal thread to that rebuttal thread....then the rebuttal to that rebuttal of the rebuttal's rebuttal, etc.

I am genuinely glad that many people on console are enjoying it. I am loving it on PC. I also think the NG versions are going to be great and pleasantly surprise a lot of people. That being said, isn't this what we have OTs for? How many Cyberpunk threads will be enough?

 

[Punished Miku]

Love this game.

PS5

Edit: More pics

Really should have been third person.

 

[Aion002]

I'd never defend something as mediocre as Fallout 76 like this.

I didn't say what people who got it for PS4 or XB1 should do, in fact I tried to get past those sorts of arguments. I didn't tell anyone not to complain. I explained why the game is everything I needed it to be and wanted to know what arguments against it there were BESIDES bugs and old consoles, etc.

Well... You want people to pretend that there are no issues with the game...


Imagine buying car, that is quite cool.. but don't have breaks and you only get to know about that while driving it.

Still.. it's a cool car I guess?

This game on PS4 and One is basically Skyrim on the PS3... Maybe even worse.. And since most gamers have a ps4 or xone... It's kinda hard to ignore all the glaring issues.

Comparing it to TW3 is kinda even worse, because TW3 didn't have next gen consoles to show how badly the current gen versions perform... Also... Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, well... Let's just say that people hates acknowledging their mistakes.

 

[THEAP99]

Why are you so upset that this game is underwhelming some gamers?